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I see that the user from 67.x.y.z has been having a field day with this page. While I can appreciate enthusiasm, some of the edits are on a very slippery slope. For example:
I think I also saw several Croatian Jews listed -- the extent of their naturalization should probably be verified before declaring them Croats.
Also there's Slavoljub Eduard Penkala, who was not ethnically Croat but willfully became naturalized Croat. Conversely, Ivo Andrić was ethnically Croat but willfully became naturalized Serb. I suppose listing both kinds is the best compromise, but I'm not sure if that's the consensus.
So, anyway, my point is: tread lightly. -- Shallot 17:46, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
As with above information, the arguments for the theory that Marco Polo was a Croatian are very controversial and are pseudohistorical. As typed above under Doubts, the allegation is such that those purporting its authenticity claim Marco Polo was born on the Croatian island of Korčula, to a Slavic family called Polić natively but changed to de Polo in order to naturalize to the Venetian government. Because there is a house (tourist attraction) dubbed the "birthplace of Marco Polo" and the fact that there is a de Polo family living on Korčula is neither here nor there. It does not equate to substantial or significant evidence that Marco Polo actually of Slavic extraction. The theory is also put forward with unfounded claims that because there is a de Polo family in Argentina who speak Croatian, suddenly this is irrefutable evidence that someone who lived as far back as the 13th century could be somehow connected to these Croatian migrants in Argentina (see discussion on Marco Polo's wiki entry for further details and evidence in The "Polo" surname).
Marco Polo should not be added here in the entry of famous Croatian explorers. The integrity of Wikipedia is under scrutiny in such cases where pseudohistorical and poorly argued points are presented as fact. Paullus 23:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Paullus 23:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC) Marco Polo is still being added with the dubious name of Marko Polic (there is absolutely no historical recording ever attesting to this name having ever been associated with Marco Polo). According to Wikipedia policy, all additions must be verifiable, which the theory of Marco Polo being from Korčula is not. Look at the discussion on The "Polo" surname under Marco Polo.
Wikipedia's integrity degrades each time someone adds unfounded claims such as this, claims which are not verifiable. Paullus 23:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Paullus 05:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC) Hello Cold water, have a look at a message I posted on your personal discussion page regarding this topic please. Hope to hear from you soon, thanks Paullus 05:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Paullus 02:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi
Cold Water, thanks for your message, I've sent you another one. Check out your user profile and go to the tab "discussion", from there you can read my new message and edit it to put another one for me to read. All the best
Paullus
02:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
As for John Malkovich- http://www.allstarz.org/~malkovich/financial.html Even though of Croatian and Scottish descent, Malkovich had a relatively typical Midwestern upbringing in the small Illinois town of Benton, some 300 miles south of Chicago. His father published a conservation magazine and his mother ran the local newspaper. So there was no reason for the chubby and much-ridiculed John to be interested in sophisticated European culture -- until he went to college. In 1976 he dropped out of a drama degree at Illinois State University, moved to Chicago and co-founded with several old friends the Steppenwolf Theatre Company, where he acted in and directed works by classic and modern European authors. It would become one of the most recognised regional groups in the US.
As much as Malkovich values its tradition and way of life, he says Europe is "not a place I take incredibly seriously: after all, it was the homeland of the Inquisition, totalitarianism, genocide and the invention of several bloody crusades". He also has harsh words for its media for what he deems unfair treatment of the US. 83.131.114.18 21:30, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)
John Malkovich is actually of Serb origin and not of Croatian origin. His last name is of Serb origin and even though he says he's from Croatia, he's not actually a Croat. This hymn reciting was a mistake and he didn't really know what they were asking of him. He admitted that later on in print. BBC has him listed as of Serb origin: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/tennis/features/newsid_2893000/2893189.stm
2 years ago, John Malkovich gave an interview to croatian magazine citation needed, where he gave full information on his background. He said his paternal grandfather came from Ozalj in Western Croatia to USA. John´s father spoke Croatian, and John himself only knows some croatian curses and greetengs. The town of Ozalj is almost 100% populated with Croats, and all people who´s last name is Malkovic, not Maljkovic are Croats. Even today, there are some relatives of John, and they are not Serbs. They still live in Ozalj in Karlovac county. I would like you to ask if you don´t know for sure, and then write on the internet.
It occurs to me that a better title for the page would be list of Croatians, because that doesn't imply ethnic nationalism, rather a link with the country, which may or may not be combined with ethnicity. And to avoid any claims of misappropriation, ethnic classification and/or name of political entity that controlled the place a person was from can be added next to each name. -- Shallot 22:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Done now. Should be reasonably uncontroversial now. -- Shallot 12:57, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Eh, that anonymous user went through the whole page like a tornado again... among other questionable things, Pope Sixtus V Croatian?? I googled and found some site from Herceg Novi saying he was the son of a Serb... brrr, this looks like another Pandora's box. -- Shallot 00:13, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I think you mixed Pope Sixtus V, with Lepopold Mandich. Leopold Mandich was Montenergrian. An Ortodox who bacame a Catholic priest. Pope Sixtus V, was from Croatian father, born in Croatian village of Krusevo in Zadar county. His last name was Perich.
Found another odd case: Rick Rossovich, an actor from California, had a great-great-grandfather who lived in Mošćenička Draga (on the coast in the Istria county). His IMDb entry, however also has an entry saying that this person was actually a Serb from Krajina, but the aforementioned place is not. -- Shallot 22:31, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Rick Rossovich Unofficial Homepage http://www.rickrossovich.de with a Bio of German and many Photos.
IMDb again says: "Is of Serbian/Italian descent, Moscenicka Draga is home of his paternal great-great grandfather. Maternal ancestry is Italian.". So, umm... -- Joy [shallot] 23:53, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Rossovich (Rosović) family are not the Serbs at all. They are of Montenegrin origin. Rosović's are from a small village on Istria peninsula, in Croatia (though, many of them declared themselves as Croats, before Croatia proclaimed independence). So that info (from Krajina??) on IMDb came from some greaterserbianist who has no connection to real life and the real world. Kubura 13:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
ChrisO, thanks for extending the introduction, though I doubt that it will help much with handling the abuse of those who consider the mere notion of association with a word involving the letters "C"/"H" and "R" is something abhorrent, and there certainly seem to be enough of those to go around... -- Shallot 14:07, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I've taken Haydn off the list again. Look, even William Hadow, who seems to have been a pretty ardent Croatianist, only speculated that Haydn was Croatian, and offered only circumstantial evidence. Moreover, a lot of Hadow's "evidence" is utterly subjective and based only on nationalist stereotypes.
If there is solid documentary evidence, gathered since Hadow's day, that Haydn was of Croatian ancestry, I'd be happy to see this claim restored to the page. But speculation in the Wikipedia should labeled as such, not presented as fact. -- Opus33 22:09, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Maradona is not a Croatian player thats for sure!!!!! Avala 13:22, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I just found some info that some croatian TV once said but never confirmed again that Maradona has roots in Croatia. It was said something like his grand grand grand father from mothers side was Croat. Even if this is true than you can say grand grand grand father of Maradona was Croat but you have to provide his name too.
For an example- Elizabeth II has family roots in Serbia but she is still English not Serbian.
but still if my grand mother is from papua new guinea i am not papuan new guinean :) and we are talking about grand grand grand... Avala 16:25, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
It seems that the Surname, Name format has proven to be rather hard to maintain. We could get rid of all those pipe links and keep the page consistent easier. -- Shallot 18:11, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
"This is a list of more or less famous people with Croatian heritage, born in or associated with Croatia or of Croatian ancestry, including both Croats and members of Croatia's national minorities:"
From the top of the page. If Avala wishes to create a page of List of ethnic Croats who are also Croatian citizens, please go ahead. However this page isn't it. Like all other country list pages it takes in those of Croat ethnicity wherever they live and those born in Croatian who aren't ethnic Croats. Rmhermen 23:56, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)
AHM AHM
Mario Andretti was born in Italy and he is on the list just because that part of Italy is now Croatian!!!!!
We can even add Dennis Rodman because he visited Croatia last summer! Why not add anyone who lived in SFRY after all Croatia was part of it so everyone born in SFRY are connected to Croatia and they can be on the list.
Also I told you taht your denial of fascism is scaring me!
Avala 12:45, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
IF YOU WANT TO SAY THAT MARADONA IS CROATIAN THEN YOU ARE WRONG-SAY LIKE THIS GREAT GRAND GRAND MOTHER OF MARADONA CALLED XY WAS CROATIAN. IF YOU WANT TO ADD MARADONA CHANGE THE NAME List of Croatians TO List of People Somehow connected to Croatia! Avala 12:49, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
http://users.tyenet.com/kozlich/baroque.htm
http://www.amb-croatie.fr/culture/renaissance_croatie.htm
More to come. Mir Harven 17:48, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This time it wasn't just the 6x.y.z.w anonymous user, it was also User:GeneralPatton :( FYI: the ordering is alphabetical, the word "hero" is entirely unsuitable, explain on Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic how it's a "lie" before changing his entry here (let alone removing it!), Kurjak certainly seems to be from Croatia even if you wish to insult him for being Bosniak and mafia, Branko Lustig has a page so you can list his religion there, etc, etc. Kindly refrain from further mass-demolition. -- Shallot 11:40, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel_murderers.html Josip Tito yugoslavia 1941-1987 1,172,000
A GENERALI GOTOVINA, NORAC I BOBETKO JESU HEROJI, I UVJEK ČE TO BIT!
GeneralPatton also wrote in commit logs (partly translated):
For the record, I found by googling that Viktor Bubanj held the rank of general in the WWII partizan army, and once had a barracks named after him in Sarajevo and a grade school in Zagreb, and he was branded by user GeneralPatton as "terrorist". At the same time, Ustasa members such as Jure Francetić were branded by him as "freedom fighters". This is amusingly in line with the popular saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". I have therefore removed all such verbiage from the article. Among other things, his includes Avala's note on Pavelić. We should stick to general descriptions here and leave the juicy details for people's articles. If someone wishes to say something about someone, don't make passing remarks in here which may only cause controversy. Instead, click the person's name and write it up, it's easy. -- Shallot 12:40, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
How is it better to write that Pavelic was politician when he was ustasha leader? Adolf Hitler was not funny little man even if somebody think so.
But picture worths 1000 words!
Here, it says it all:
I just hope that you will not say that he is waving to the children on this picture because we all know that he is waving to him.
Avala 09:33, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
And this picture is the one you can`t oppose to!
He was Hitler`s puppet just like Pavelic made Croatia to be.
Avala 09:38, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
Malkovich is Croatian name, and John Malkovich is really a Croat. Who does'nt believe can check the Croatian phonebook, just type 'Malković': http://imenik.ht.hr/
Isn't the new czech president of Croat descent?
... include historical prominent individuals into the article? -- HolyRomanEmperor 23:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
I think that it is un necessary to have so many people listed. We a section for "Builders" and half of it is with red links that most people have never heard of. A lot of sections are not very desirable. I think we should just leave the list to the most influential successful people and cut out the rest to shorten it. It will also keep people reading the page. Anybody agree?
JJstroker 05:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Some people are deleting names, or deleting them and adding them to the Serbian list, without explaning why...
Or going on to the person's article and modifying information, deleting the original info into something else, without explaning...
A lot of people have thought that Maury Povich could be of Serbian or Croatian ancestry...
His father Shirley Povich was born in the USA to Jewish parents from Lithuania.
His mother was Slav, her maiden name was Keverich, a not so common name anywhere in the world, but there's Croatian Keverics...
He is an NBA Hall of Famer, I wonder if his original name was Lapcic
Belichick = Belicic / Lapchick = Lapcic?
It is written that Josip Broz is a person of Yugoslav nationality. However, on many occasions he claimed to be a Croat. For instance during his visit in Bregana on the 5th of July 1971. he said to general secretary of the Central Committee of the League of Communists of Croatia at the time (Savka Dabčević-Kučar): "You think that I do not have any national feelings. You think that I do not consider myself to be a Croat, that I left our country as young proletarian, that the proletarian internationalism had superseded any national feeling from me. I am an internationalist, because we are the communists and we must be internationalists. However, I am also a Croat." (D. Bilandžić, Hrvatska moderna povijest, Golden marketing, Zagreb, 1999., p. 601.) Therefore, I believe that it should not be written that Josip Broz is a person of Yugoslav nationality. Brunislav 19:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Anyone knows if she is of Croatian descent?
I read and heard that he was half Native-American and that he had a Yugoslavian uncle that played pro-football.
Where did you hear that his mother was from Mostar?
And also I suggest that the late picks that u've added be on another page, below the NHL players that have actually played in the NHL be a link to another page with NHL picks of Croatian descent.
Gervais is a french-canadian name, what makes u think he is of Croatian descent.
For Gervais, see my answer on your page. There's a small group of Croats with surname Gervais. That's why I put him on the list as a person of possible Croat origin. Kubura 09:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
About John Kordic, search the net. His father is Ivan and mother is Regina. They are from around Mostar. Only Croats have such surname there. Where did you got the info that he's half-native American? Kubura 09:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
It says so on many sites, google it... He did kinda look like part Native... although it could be false...
I wonder if Gisela Dulko (#1 of Argentina) is of Croatian descent. Dulko doesn't seem like an argentine name. Dujko?
Lapchick - Mihalik - Havlicek - Gulick --- These players could be of Croatian descent...
I have read on some websites that Pete Maravich was of Croatian descent... does anyone know for sure?
Fucking hell. This was moved from List of Croatians to List of Croats without explanation on Talk by this anonymous edit which is also an improper move (losing page history). Of all the lame ass crap I've seen, the kind which hurts the most is the one ignored for months... -- Joy [shallot] 22:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/62.203.50.120 - it shows just those two edits. I simply can't believe that this didn't catch the attention of an administrator. -- Joy [shallot] 22:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Let's have a poll - should we maintain a list of Croats (only ethnic Croats) or a list of Croatians (both ethnic Croats and other people from Croatia)? Or both? Or none?! -- Joy [shallot] 22:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Both should on the list, what are u kidding me, why take off fifth generation Croats off the list? what kind of a joke is that? I suggest then that u take off all the immigrants to the US (Schwarzenegger, etc.) and sons of immigrants (Pacino, etc.) from the American list.
Small-time actors shouldn't be on the main list, but add them here!!!
THESE TWO I DUNNO TO WHICH ETHNIC GROUP THEY BELONG TO
Deal or No Deal contestant Susan? Batkovic from Ohio was on Friday 28 April and will be back Monday
SOMEONE IS TAKING THEM OFF THE LIST, WHO IS AND WHY?
WHO'S THE FRUSTRATED, ARROGANT SERB DELETING THEM?
I deleted my previous posts because I was rude. We were just having fun adding all the famous Croats of the world to this list.
Why are u taking out only the popular names?
Here are some solutions to the problem.
List of Croatians is created for all that are citizens of Croatia (not necessarily Croats).
List of Croats contains Croats by origin and by declaring (not necessarily citizens of Croatia). And that's it. Malkovich is Croat, but not Croatian. Milan Đukić (leading Serb politician in Croatia) is a Croatian, but not Croat.
Regarding origin, person can have origin from more than one nationality. It shouldn't be the problem if person has "more origins".
But Jack O'Lantern, what about the case when noone makes a webpage about certain person, but it is known among Croats (in certain Croat family) that certain person is their relative/Croat? Or when only the online phonebook can be the argument?
Kubura
11:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Just wanted to add a few remarks:
The list as given does not have a sigle common criterion applicable to all people listed here:
Charlie Chaplin - born as Karlo Čapljinac, actor, film director and producer (Winner of 1 Oscar Award)
Truly hilarious...
Serbs want both.
Yes, these soldiers of the Croatian army were war criminals
1. Rahim Ademi 2. Janko Bobetko 3. Ante Gotovina 4. Mirko Norac
Their only personal military 'achievements' were killed children and elderlies, raped women, and looted and burned homes of the Serbs. That's why they are in the Hague (Ademi, Gotovina)or already in jail (Norac). Bobetko died and that way escaped the Hague.
It is shameful to put them on the list along with the Serbs Andric and Tesla!
No, those people are only accused for crimes. You will have to wait until proces begins. -- Ante Perkovic 00:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Reading fom this page that
and then reading from Mario Andretti I learned that
Mario Andretti was born in the town of Motovun (1940) in then Italian Istria. He was born with a twin brother, Aldo Andretti. After World War II Istria (which is part of Croatia) passed to Yugoslavia and his family, like many other Italian Istrians, fled in 1948 and spent the next seven years in a displaced persons camp.
So, being born as Italian, lived in Yugoslavia for just three years (1945-8), he became Croatian! Just imagine what unseen glory shines upon Mario - after seven years spent in a displaced persons camp, and finally becoming a Croatian!
There was a lot of discussion proving undeniably that Marco Polo was a Croat Marko Pilic or Polic.
The Pilic theory claims: POLO-PILIC, MARCO Croatian Adventurer
The Marco Polo Coat of Arms includes four chickens. In Italian, Polo means chicken or fowl; in Croatian Pilich means chicks or chickens. Accident or coincidence? The Arms are registered in Dalmatia.
Then came a bad mouth and a shameless Italian who spoiled the joy of this scientific discovery:
"Finellach" <krunoslav.raki...@hi.htnet.hr> ha scritto nel messaggio news:cm8n4b$hsd$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> Geos wrote: > > Tell me, my friend, is this the "theory", you are talking about? > > http://www.ikorcula.net/marcopolo/Pilic_Polo_Marko.htm > Yes.
Well, the first think is that chicken in italian is pollo and not "polo". Polo is a Venitian word for "Paul". This simple evidence breaks one of the bases of your theory.
Yeah, we have still the Polic theory available ...
Following this Pilic-Polic theory, I myself discovered that:
Also, I am all for Croatian Joe Magarac - due to the fact that magarac means jackass in the contemporary Croatian. It means the same in the contemporary Serbian language - but my patriotic Croatian feelings tell me that the Croats are more jackasses than the Serbs.
At the end, the claim given at the beginning of this list The bottom section also includes some corner cases:
gives me an excellent idea to include the Krapina man (see Neanderthal) as the oldest ever known Croat. The only dilemma I have is - where to place him within this list of famous Croatians - Military or Science? Maybe - under both these subsections.
Those who are in favor of one or other section - please, sign below and write the section name you are for!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:4.249.3.240
Anyone visiting this talk page can now profit from an added bonus. The above is an example of a slightly modified version of
straw man sock puppet - They often act in an unintelligent or uninformed manner, and may behave in an overtly bigoted manner. The effect is often to obfuscate the debate and prevent a serious discussion of the arguments from each side. User 4.249.xxx.xxx is nothing more than another pathetic attempt at wasting everybody's time by Serbian nationalistic crap pusher and retarded puppet master
user:Purger a.k.a.
user:Medule.
83.131.68.72
08:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
If while reading this article you happen to stumble accross one of these names (or any other which you feel couldn't possibly be there), pay attention to the following:
1. the above has usually been inserted by an anonymous IP or a recently-crated account whose "contributions" are mostly to one of Croatia-related articles. 2. another user (usually an anonymous IP) will eventually insert something like "Oh I don't believe this!" or "Are they kidding?" etc.
Relax and revert. This is a work of an idle creten and a known puppet master user:Purger a.k.a. user:Medule whose idea of spending his time is to log onto Wikipedia under one of his zillion puppet accounts or open proxy addresses and spread his Serbian nationalistic and hateful crap. Basically the guy is just one of those angry-looking unemployed and hairy Serbs living in some ugly Novi Beograd apartment block and blaming the whole world for the misery their shit-hole of a country is in. I guess vandalizing Wikipedia and wasting everybody's time is just his way of escaping his miserable reality. Probably masturbates too while waiting for a page to reload after clicking on "Show preview" button. 83.131.68.167 21:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
These changes need partial rev. We shouldn't censor parts related to alledged war crimes, nor add Albanians to the list. Ante.
Partial rev? Which part is done wrong? I disagree with reverting. Kubura 07:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There's no more space to add names here!!!!!!!!
we need another page somewhere where we can add all the names, PEOPLE WITH CROATIAN ANCESTRY, PEOPLE BORN ON THE TERRITORY OF PRESENT-DAY CROATIA, ETC, EVERYONE THAT HAS ANY KIND OF CONNEXION WITH CROATIA!!!
Why do we need those footnotes on the list of Croatian-Americans
Personally, I think there's too much names here. Many of them are mostly unknown even in Croatia. It had sense putting them here if they are from Croatia, but living in other countries. Kubura 07:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Is Sarah of Croat origin? Blašković? If she is, why is she removed from the list? Kubura 08:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
On the list of Croatians there are two people Nikola Tesla and Mirko Norac. There is no need to tell who was Nikola Tesla. Mirko Norac is a war criminal sentenced to the 13 year term and jailed. During the secession war, he was a commanding officer in the Gospic county area where is the Tesla's birthplace - village of Smiljan. This infamous soldier, the Tudjman's general, is trained as a waiter (this is the only 'military' knowledge and education he posess) and all his military achievements were raped women, killed elderlies and children, looted properties and burned homes.
Accrording to the Jutarnji list - a Croatian daily newspaper, Croatia decided to honor great inventor and scientist - Nikola Tesla, the Serb. Nothing wrong, but
- it shall be known that Ustase (1941) turned to ashes the Serbian orthodox church (where Nikola's father, reverend Milutin served as a priest) and the home where Nikola was born, killed a great number of villagers and destroyed the tombstones/memorials of Nikola's parents (father Milutin and mother Djuka)
- in the same town of Gospic in the year of 1993, the monument erected to honor this great man was blown up to pieces and the town square named after Tesla was renamed - which reads in Croatian below:
http://www.jutarnji.hr/nedjeljni_jutarnji/clanak/art-2006,7,8,memorijalni_kompleks,34822.jl
Taj je kip bio postavljen na sredisnjem gradskom trgu, koji je tada nosio ime Nikole Tesle, a u međuvremenu je preimenovan u Trg Stjepana Radića. No, u siječnju 1992. Krsinićev je spomenik miniran velikom količinom eksploziva tako da se razletio u komadiće
Nevertheless, Nikola's home was 'restored' - the original building was made of wood, the new one - all brick and concrete. A brook who was running nearby was diverted to run closely to this new house. The house belongs to the Serbian orthodox church and was looted during the secession war (1991-95) by Croatian police under pretext of saving and protecting Nikola's parents belongings. Of course, all this 'honor' of 'restauration' of Nikola's birthplace was just an ocassion for many Croatian nationalists to polish their images as civilised and educated people. Not a single representative of the Serbian orthodox church or living Tesla's relative (William Terbo, Nikola's grand nephew - for example) is consulted or invited as a guest.
The Gospic town mayor Milan Kolić, who was mayor in the time of blowing up the monument and renaming the Tesla's Square into Stjepan Radic Square says:
- Ovim centrom se grad Gospić, naselje Smiljan i cijela Hrvatska zele oduziti svom slavnom sugrađaninu Nikoli Tesli - rekao je Milan Kolić, gradonačelnik Gospića koji je na čelu grada bio i tijekom Domovinskog rata.
which reads: "By this center (the Tesla's 'restored' home and the Serbian orthodox church rebulid) town Gospic and entire Croatia wants to pay tribute to their famous fellow citizen Nikola Tesla"
The whole article is written in a highly politically correct manner - not a single word that Tesla was not actually a Croat - rather a Serb. Not a single word of apology (coming form Croatians 'dignitaries') for destruction of everything that holds any memory to this great man - Nikola Tesla.
But, as to the new Croatian hero, Mirko Norac - he is still a member of so-called Alka Cavaliers Society (Vitesko alkarsko drustvo) which runs every year a medieval type contest celebrating some victory over Turks some time in the 16th century -in the Croatian town of Sinj.
Learning that, the diplomats acredited in the Croatian capital city of Zagreb - sent message to Croatia - we would not again attend the contest if Norac, a war criminal, is a member of the Alka Cavaliers Society.
http://www.jutarnji.hr/dogadjaji_dana/clanak/art-2006,7,15,sinjska_alka,36003.jl
Diplomati u RH zbog Norca će i ove godine bojkotirati Alku
Iz diplomatskog kora, međutim, stizu vrlo jasni signali kako će veleposlanici, po svemu sudeći, i ove godine bojkotirati Alku, i to zbog činjenice da je Mirko Norac jos uvijek član VAD-a, premda je osuđen za ratne zločine.
The article says that Serbian patriarch Pavle is of Croatian ancestry. I know that majority of Croatian users here would like the whole Solar system to be of Croatian ancestry, but this is way too much! -- Djordje D. Bozovic 11:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Man, this entire article should be redone (I mean it!)!!!!! There are way too many (ethnic Serb) brackets in this list! Listen you croats, if the person is an ethnic Serb, don’t even bother adding him/her because they are not one of yours. Also, I can’t believe someone had enough guts to add MARCO POLO or HAYDN on this list. This just goes to show how desperate you people are. Who’s next? Man, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kofi Annan or Abraham Lincoln were listed as croatians! GIVE ME (AND THE REST OF A WORLD) A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!
The reason why I know this mess [a gigantic list of Serbs, people who have only stepped foot on croatia (which has immediately lead croatians into believing that they are one of theirs), and people who croatians wish were croats (Marco Polo and Haydn)] was done by croatians is because if it was not (if it was done by other people) the croatians would have surly removed those individuals who are falsely listed as croats. I know first hand that you people are very (obsessively) proud of your race, history, culture, and nation (not afraid, embarrassed, or ashamed of having a national flag that is practically identical to that of the Nazi Ustasha puppet state or of the formation of a giant human swastika during a recent “friendly” soccer match between Italy). If someone vandalizes it (as is seen in this article) you people will go nuts. How come this has not occurred in this article? I would expect this article to have no problems, however this is not the case. This leads me into believing that croats have vandalized this article. Even if it was other nationalities that did this extensive false listing, I can’t believe that croatians would not react to this bogus (like Polo and Haydn as croats). Do you croats actually think that by not removing any of those names that people will think that those individuals (like Haydn) are croatian? LISTEN, PEOPLE ARE NOT STUPID!!!!!!!!!! PEOPLE WILL DOUBT AND RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!! YOU PEOPLE THINK THAT ANYONE WHO MENTIONS croatia IS croatian. F.U.C.K.!!!!!!!!!!
Ante Perkovic, I can’t believe that you responded to my comment the same day I posted it! DUDE, THIS GUY HIMSELF IS AN EXAMPLE OF A croatian FANATIC!!!!!!!!!! YOU’RE ALWAYS CHECKING IF SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY OR PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! DUDE, GET A LIFE. IF THERE IS LIKE A MOVIE OUT AND HAS NO THING TO DO WITH croatia, BUT JUST HAS SOME INSIGNIFICANT CHARACTER WHO SAYS croatia, THE ENTIRE croatian COMMUNITY WILL GO TO THE THEATRES TO WATCH THAT MOVIE!!!!!!!!!! I SWEAR!!!!!!!!!!
Apollo Creed 03:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC) The guy who started TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE
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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
I see that the user from 67.x.y.z has been having a field day with this page. While I can appreciate enthusiasm, some of the edits are on a very slippery slope. For example:
I think I also saw several Croatian Jews listed -- the extent of their naturalization should probably be verified before declaring them Croats.
Also there's Slavoljub Eduard Penkala, who was not ethnically Croat but willfully became naturalized Croat. Conversely, Ivo Andrić was ethnically Croat but willfully became naturalized Serb. I suppose listing both kinds is the best compromise, but I'm not sure if that's the consensus.
So, anyway, my point is: tread lightly. -- Shallot 17:46, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
As with above information, the arguments for the theory that Marco Polo was a Croatian are very controversial and are pseudohistorical. As typed above under Doubts, the allegation is such that those purporting its authenticity claim Marco Polo was born on the Croatian island of Korčula, to a Slavic family called Polić natively but changed to de Polo in order to naturalize to the Venetian government. Because there is a house (tourist attraction) dubbed the "birthplace of Marco Polo" and the fact that there is a de Polo family living on Korčula is neither here nor there. It does not equate to substantial or significant evidence that Marco Polo actually of Slavic extraction. The theory is also put forward with unfounded claims that because there is a de Polo family in Argentina who speak Croatian, suddenly this is irrefutable evidence that someone who lived as far back as the 13th century could be somehow connected to these Croatian migrants in Argentina (see discussion on Marco Polo's wiki entry for further details and evidence in The "Polo" surname).
Marco Polo should not be added here in the entry of famous Croatian explorers. The integrity of Wikipedia is under scrutiny in such cases where pseudohistorical and poorly argued points are presented as fact. Paullus 23:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Paullus 23:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC) Marco Polo is still being added with the dubious name of Marko Polic (there is absolutely no historical recording ever attesting to this name having ever been associated with Marco Polo). According to Wikipedia policy, all additions must be verifiable, which the theory of Marco Polo being from Korčula is not. Look at the discussion on The "Polo" surname under Marco Polo.
Wikipedia's integrity degrades each time someone adds unfounded claims such as this, claims which are not verifiable. Paullus 23:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Paullus 05:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC) Hello Cold water, have a look at a message I posted on your personal discussion page regarding this topic please. Hope to hear from you soon, thanks Paullus 05:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Paullus 02:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi
Cold Water, thanks for your message, I've sent you another one. Check out your user profile and go to the tab "discussion", from there you can read my new message and edit it to put another one for me to read. All the best
Paullus
02:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
As for John Malkovich- http://www.allstarz.org/~malkovich/financial.html Even though of Croatian and Scottish descent, Malkovich had a relatively typical Midwestern upbringing in the small Illinois town of Benton, some 300 miles south of Chicago. His father published a conservation magazine and his mother ran the local newspaper. So there was no reason for the chubby and much-ridiculed John to be interested in sophisticated European culture -- until he went to college. In 1976 he dropped out of a drama degree at Illinois State University, moved to Chicago and co-founded with several old friends the Steppenwolf Theatre Company, where he acted in and directed works by classic and modern European authors. It would become one of the most recognised regional groups in the US.
As much as Malkovich values its tradition and way of life, he says Europe is "not a place I take incredibly seriously: after all, it was the homeland of the Inquisition, totalitarianism, genocide and the invention of several bloody crusades". He also has harsh words for its media for what he deems unfair treatment of the US. 83.131.114.18 21:30, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)
John Malkovich is actually of Serb origin and not of Croatian origin. His last name is of Serb origin and even though he says he's from Croatia, he's not actually a Croat. This hymn reciting was a mistake and he didn't really know what they were asking of him. He admitted that later on in print. BBC has him listed as of Serb origin: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/tennis/features/newsid_2893000/2893189.stm
2 years ago, John Malkovich gave an interview to croatian magazine citation needed, where he gave full information on his background. He said his paternal grandfather came from Ozalj in Western Croatia to USA. John´s father spoke Croatian, and John himself only knows some croatian curses and greetengs. The town of Ozalj is almost 100% populated with Croats, and all people who´s last name is Malkovic, not Maljkovic are Croats. Even today, there are some relatives of John, and they are not Serbs. They still live in Ozalj in Karlovac county. I would like you to ask if you don´t know for sure, and then write on the internet.
It occurs to me that a better title for the page would be list of Croatians, because that doesn't imply ethnic nationalism, rather a link with the country, which may or may not be combined with ethnicity. And to avoid any claims of misappropriation, ethnic classification and/or name of political entity that controlled the place a person was from can be added next to each name. -- Shallot 22:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Done now. Should be reasonably uncontroversial now. -- Shallot 12:57, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Eh, that anonymous user went through the whole page like a tornado again... among other questionable things, Pope Sixtus V Croatian?? I googled and found some site from Herceg Novi saying he was the son of a Serb... brrr, this looks like another Pandora's box. -- Shallot 00:13, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I think you mixed Pope Sixtus V, with Lepopold Mandich. Leopold Mandich was Montenergrian. An Ortodox who bacame a Catholic priest. Pope Sixtus V, was from Croatian father, born in Croatian village of Krusevo in Zadar county. His last name was Perich.
Found another odd case: Rick Rossovich, an actor from California, had a great-great-grandfather who lived in Mošćenička Draga (on the coast in the Istria county). His IMDb entry, however also has an entry saying that this person was actually a Serb from Krajina, but the aforementioned place is not. -- Shallot 22:31, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Rick Rossovich Unofficial Homepage http://www.rickrossovich.de with a Bio of German and many Photos.
IMDb again says: "Is of Serbian/Italian descent, Moscenicka Draga is home of his paternal great-great grandfather. Maternal ancestry is Italian.". So, umm... -- Joy [shallot] 23:53, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Rossovich (Rosović) family are not the Serbs at all. They are of Montenegrin origin. Rosović's are from a small village on Istria peninsula, in Croatia (though, many of them declared themselves as Croats, before Croatia proclaimed independence). So that info (from Krajina??) on IMDb came from some greaterserbianist who has no connection to real life and the real world. Kubura 13:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
ChrisO, thanks for extending the introduction, though I doubt that it will help much with handling the abuse of those who consider the mere notion of association with a word involving the letters "C"/"H" and "R" is something abhorrent, and there certainly seem to be enough of those to go around... -- Shallot 14:07, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I've taken Haydn off the list again. Look, even William Hadow, who seems to have been a pretty ardent Croatianist, only speculated that Haydn was Croatian, and offered only circumstantial evidence. Moreover, a lot of Hadow's "evidence" is utterly subjective and based only on nationalist stereotypes.
If there is solid documentary evidence, gathered since Hadow's day, that Haydn was of Croatian ancestry, I'd be happy to see this claim restored to the page. But speculation in the Wikipedia should labeled as such, not presented as fact. -- Opus33 22:09, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Maradona is not a Croatian player thats for sure!!!!! Avala 13:22, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I just found some info that some croatian TV once said but never confirmed again that Maradona has roots in Croatia. It was said something like his grand grand grand father from mothers side was Croat. Even if this is true than you can say grand grand grand father of Maradona was Croat but you have to provide his name too.
For an example- Elizabeth II has family roots in Serbia but she is still English not Serbian.
but still if my grand mother is from papua new guinea i am not papuan new guinean :) and we are talking about grand grand grand... Avala 16:25, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
It seems that the Surname, Name format has proven to be rather hard to maintain. We could get rid of all those pipe links and keep the page consistent easier. -- Shallot 18:11, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
"This is a list of more or less famous people with Croatian heritage, born in or associated with Croatia or of Croatian ancestry, including both Croats and members of Croatia's national minorities:"
From the top of the page. If Avala wishes to create a page of List of ethnic Croats who are also Croatian citizens, please go ahead. However this page isn't it. Like all other country list pages it takes in those of Croat ethnicity wherever they live and those born in Croatian who aren't ethnic Croats. Rmhermen 23:56, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)
AHM AHM
Mario Andretti was born in Italy and he is on the list just because that part of Italy is now Croatian!!!!!
We can even add Dennis Rodman because he visited Croatia last summer! Why not add anyone who lived in SFRY after all Croatia was part of it so everyone born in SFRY are connected to Croatia and they can be on the list.
Also I told you taht your denial of fascism is scaring me!
Avala 12:45, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
IF YOU WANT TO SAY THAT MARADONA IS CROATIAN THEN YOU ARE WRONG-SAY LIKE THIS GREAT GRAND GRAND MOTHER OF MARADONA CALLED XY WAS CROATIAN. IF YOU WANT TO ADD MARADONA CHANGE THE NAME List of Croatians TO List of People Somehow connected to Croatia! Avala 12:49, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
http://users.tyenet.com/kozlich/baroque.htm
http://www.amb-croatie.fr/culture/renaissance_croatie.htm
More to come. Mir Harven 17:48, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This time it wasn't just the 6x.y.z.w anonymous user, it was also User:GeneralPatton :( FYI: the ordering is alphabetical, the word "hero" is entirely unsuitable, explain on Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic how it's a "lie" before changing his entry here (let alone removing it!), Kurjak certainly seems to be from Croatia even if you wish to insult him for being Bosniak and mafia, Branko Lustig has a page so you can list his religion there, etc, etc. Kindly refrain from further mass-demolition. -- Shallot 11:40, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel_murderers.html Josip Tito yugoslavia 1941-1987 1,172,000
A GENERALI GOTOVINA, NORAC I BOBETKO JESU HEROJI, I UVJEK ČE TO BIT!
GeneralPatton also wrote in commit logs (partly translated):
For the record, I found by googling that Viktor Bubanj held the rank of general in the WWII partizan army, and once had a barracks named after him in Sarajevo and a grade school in Zagreb, and he was branded by user GeneralPatton as "terrorist". At the same time, Ustasa members such as Jure Francetić were branded by him as "freedom fighters". This is amusingly in line with the popular saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". I have therefore removed all such verbiage from the article. Among other things, his includes Avala's note on Pavelić. We should stick to general descriptions here and leave the juicy details for people's articles. If someone wishes to say something about someone, don't make passing remarks in here which may only cause controversy. Instead, click the person's name and write it up, it's easy. -- Shallot 12:40, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
How is it better to write that Pavelic was politician when he was ustasha leader? Adolf Hitler was not funny little man even if somebody think so.
But picture worths 1000 words!
Here, it says it all:
I just hope that you will not say that he is waving to the children on this picture because we all know that he is waving to him.
Avala 09:33, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
And this picture is the one you can`t oppose to!
He was Hitler`s puppet just like Pavelic made Croatia to be.
Avala 09:38, 13 May 2004 (UTC)
Malkovich is Croatian name, and John Malkovich is really a Croat. Who does'nt believe can check the Croatian phonebook, just type 'Malković': http://imenik.ht.hr/
Isn't the new czech president of Croat descent?
... include historical prominent individuals into the article? -- HolyRomanEmperor 23:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
I think that it is un necessary to have so many people listed. We a section for "Builders" and half of it is with red links that most people have never heard of. A lot of sections are not very desirable. I think we should just leave the list to the most influential successful people and cut out the rest to shorten it. It will also keep people reading the page. Anybody agree?
JJstroker 05:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Some people are deleting names, or deleting them and adding them to the Serbian list, without explaning why...
Or going on to the person's article and modifying information, deleting the original info into something else, without explaning...
A lot of people have thought that Maury Povich could be of Serbian or Croatian ancestry...
His father Shirley Povich was born in the USA to Jewish parents from Lithuania.
His mother was Slav, her maiden name was Keverich, a not so common name anywhere in the world, but there's Croatian Keverics...
He is an NBA Hall of Famer, I wonder if his original name was Lapcic
Belichick = Belicic / Lapchick = Lapcic?
It is written that Josip Broz is a person of Yugoslav nationality. However, on many occasions he claimed to be a Croat. For instance during his visit in Bregana on the 5th of July 1971. he said to general secretary of the Central Committee of the League of Communists of Croatia at the time (Savka Dabčević-Kučar): "You think that I do not have any national feelings. You think that I do not consider myself to be a Croat, that I left our country as young proletarian, that the proletarian internationalism had superseded any national feeling from me. I am an internationalist, because we are the communists and we must be internationalists. However, I am also a Croat." (D. Bilandžić, Hrvatska moderna povijest, Golden marketing, Zagreb, 1999., p. 601.) Therefore, I believe that it should not be written that Josip Broz is a person of Yugoslav nationality. Brunislav 19:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Anyone knows if she is of Croatian descent?
I read and heard that he was half Native-American and that he had a Yugoslavian uncle that played pro-football.
Where did you hear that his mother was from Mostar?
And also I suggest that the late picks that u've added be on another page, below the NHL players that have actually played in the NHL be a link to another page with NHL picks of Croatian descent.
Gervais is a french-canadian name, what makes u think he is of Croatian descent.
For Gervais, see my answer on your page. There's a small group of Croats with surname Gervais. That's why I put him on the list as a person of possible Croat origin. Kubura 09:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
About John Kordic, search the net. His father is Ivan and mother is Regina. They are from around Mostar. Only Croats have such surname there. Where did you got the info that he's half-native American? Kubura 09:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
It says so on many sites, google it... He did kinda look like part Native... although it could be false...
I wonder if Gisela Dulko (#1 of Argentina) is of Croatian descent. Dulko doesn't seem like an argentine name. Dujko?
Lapchick - Mihalik - Havlicek - Gulick --- These players could be of Croatian descent...
I have read on some websites that Pete Maravich was of Croatian descent... does anyone know for sure?
Fucking hell. This was moved from List of Croatians to List of Croats without explanation on Talk by this anonymous edit which is also an improper move (losing page history). Of all the lame ass crap I've seen, the kind which hurts the most is the one ignored for months... -- Joy [shallot] 22:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/62.203.50.120 - it shows just those two edits. I simply can't believe that this didn't catch the attention of an administrator. -- Joy [shallot] 22:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Let's have a poll - should we maintain a list of Croats (only ethnic Croats) or a list of Croatians (both ethnic Croats and other people from Croatia)? Or both? Or none?! -- Joy [shallot] 22:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Both should on the list, what are u kidding me, why take off fifth generation Croats off the list? what kind of a joke is that? I suggest then that u take off all the immigrants to the US (Schwarzenegger, etc.) and sons of immigrants (Pacino, etc.) from the American list.
Small-time actors shouldn't be on the main list, but add them here!!!
THESE TWO I DUNNO TO WHICH ETHNIC GROUP THEY BELONG TO
Deal or No Deal contestant Susan? Batkovic from Ohio was on Friday 28 April and will be back Monday
SOMEONE IS TAKING THEM OFF THE LIST, WHO IS AND WHY?
WHO'S THE FRUSTRATED, ARROGANT SERB DELETING THEM?
I deleted my previous posts because I was rude. We were just having fun adding all the famous Croats of the world to this list.
Why are u taking out only the popular names?
Here are some solutions to the problem.
List of Croatians is created for all that are citizens of Croatia (not necessarily Croats).
List of Croats contains Croats by origin and by declaring (not necessarily citizens of Croatia). And that's it. Malkovich is Croat, but not Croatian. Milan Đukić (leading Serb politician in Croatia) is a Croatian, but not Croat.
Regarding origin, person can have origin from more than one nationality. It shouldn't be the problem if person has "more origins".
But Jack O'Lantern, what about the case when noone makes a webpage about certain person, but it is known among Croats (in certain Croat family) that certain person is their relative/Croat? Or when only the online phonebook can be the argument?
Kubura
11:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Just wanted to add a few remarks:
The list as given does not have a sigle common criterion applicable to all people listed here:
Charlie Chaplin - born as Karlo Čapljinac, actor, film director and producer (Winner of 1 Oscar Award)
Truly hilarious...
Serbs want both.
Yes, these soldiers of the Croatian army were war criminals
1. Rahim Ademi 2. Janko Bobetko 3. Ante Gotovina 4. Mirko Norac
Their only personal military 'achievements' were killed children and elderlies, raped women, and looted and burned homes of the Serbs. That's why they are in the Hague (Ademi, Gotovina)or already in jail (Norac). Bobetko died and that way escaped the Hague.
It is shameful to put them on the list along with the Serbs Andric and Tesla!
No, those people are only accused for crimes. You will have to wait until proces begins. -- Ante Perkovic 00:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Reading fom this page that
and then reading from Mario Andretti I learned that
Mario Andretti was born in the town of Motovun (1940) in then Italian Istria. He was born with a twin brother, Aldo Andretti. After World War II Istria (which is part of Croatia) passed to Yugoslavia and his family, like many other Italian Istrians, fled in 1948 and spent the next seven years in a displaced persons camp.
So, being born as Italian, lived in Yugoslavia for just three years (1945-8), he became Croatian! Just imagine what unseen glory shines upon Mario - after seven years spent in a displaced persons camp, and finally becoming a Croatian!
There was a lot of discussion proving undeniably that Marco Polo was a Croat Marko Pilic or Polic.
The Pilic theory claims: POLO-PILIC, MARCO Croatian Adventurer
The Marco Polo Coat of Arms includes four chickens. In Italian, Polo means chicken or fowl; in Croatian Pilich means chicks or chickens. Accident or coincidence? The Arms are registered in Dalmatia.
Then came a bad mouth and a shameless Italian who spoiled the joy of this scientific discovery:
"Finellach" <krunoslav.raki...@hi.htnet.hr> ha scritto nel messaggio news:cm8n4b$hsd$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> Geos wrote: > > Tell me, my friend, is this the "theory", you are talking about? > > http://www.ikorcula.net/marcopolo/Pilic_Polo_Marko.htm > Yes.
Well, the first think is that chicken in italian is pollo and not "polo". Polo is a Venitian word for "Paul". This simple evidence breaks one of the bases of your theory.
Yeah, we have still the Polic theory available ...
Following this Pilic-Polic theory, I myself discovered that:
Also, I am all for Croatian Joe Magarac - due to the fact that magarac means jackass in the contemporary Croatian. It means the same in the contemporary Serbian language - but my patriotic Croatian feelings tell me that the Croats are more jackasses than the Serbs.
At the end, the claim given at the beginning of this list The bottom section also includes some corner cases:
gives me an excellent idea to include the Krapina man (see Neanderthal) as the oldest ever known Croat. The only dilemma I have is - where to place him within this list of famous Croatians - Military or Science? Maybe - under both these subsections.
Those who are in favor of one or other section - please, sign below and write the section name you are for!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:4.249.3.240
Anyone visiting this talk page can now profit from an added bonus. The above is an example of a slightly modified version of
straw man sock puppet - They often act in an unintelligent or uninformed manner, and may behave in an overtly bigoted manner. The effect is often to obfuscate the debate and prevent a serious discussion of the arguments from each side. User 4.249.xxx.xxx is nothing more than another pathetic attempt at wasting everybody's time by Serbian nationalistic crap pusher and retarded puppet master
user:Purger a.k.a.
user:Medule.
83.131.68.72
08:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
If while reading this article you happen to stumble accross one of these names (or any other which you feel couldn't possibly be there), pay attention to the following:
1. the above has usually been inserted by an anonymous IP or a recently-crated account whose "contributions" are mostly to one of Croatia-related articles. 2. another user (usually an anonymous IP) will eventually insert something like "Oh I don't believe this!" or "Are they kidding?" etc.
Relax and revert. This is a work of an idle creten and a known puppet master user:Purger a.k.a. user:Medule whose idea of spending his time is to log onto Wikipedia under one of his zillion puppet accounts or open proxy addresses and spread his Serbian nationalistic and hateful crap. Basically the guy is just one of those angry-looking unemployed and hairy Serbs living in some ugly Novi Beograd apartment block and blaming the whole world for the misery their shit-hole of a country is in. I guess vandalizing Wikipedia and wasting everybody's time is just his way of escaping his miserable reality. Probably masturbates too while waiting for a page to reload after clicking on "Show preview" button. 83.131.68.167 21:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
These changes need partial rev. We shouldn't censor parts related to alledged war crimes, nor add Albanians to the list. Ante.
Partial rev? Which part is done wrong? I disagree with reverting. Kubura 07:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There's no more space to add names here!!!!!!!!
we need another page somewhere where we can add all the names, PEOPLE WITH CROATIAN ANCESTRY, PEOPLE BORN ON THE TERRITORY OF PRESENT-DAY CROATIA, ETC, EVERYONE THAT HAS ANY KIND OF CONNEXION WITH CROATIA!!!
Why do we need those footnotes on the list of Croatian-Americans
Personally, I think there's too much names here. Many of them are mostly unknown even in Croatia. It had sense putting them here if they are from Croatia, but living in other countries. Kubura 07:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Is Sarah of Croat origin? Blašković? If she is, why is she removed from the list? Kubura 08:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
On the list of Croatians there are two people Nikola Tesla and Mirko Norac. There is no need to tell who was Nikola Tesla. Mirko Norac is a war criminal sentenced to the 13 year term and jailed. During the secession war, he was a commanding officer in the Gospic county area where is the Tesla's birthplace - village of Smiljan. This infamous soldier, the Tudjman's general, is trained as a waiter (this is the only 'military' knowledge and education he posess) and all his military achievements were raped women, killed elderlies and children, looted properties and burned homes.
Accrording to the Jutarnji list - a Croatian daily newspaper, Croatia decided to honor great inventor and scientist - Nikola Tesla, the Serb. Nothing wrong, but
- it shall be known that Ustase (1941) turned to ashes the Serbian orthodox church (where Nikola's father, reverend Milutin served as a priest) and the home where Nikola was born, killed a great number of villagers and destroyed the tombstones/memorials of Nikola's parents (father Milutin and mother Djuka)
- in the same town of Gospic in the year of 1993, the monument erected to honor this great man was blown up to pieces and the town square named after Tesla was renamed - which reads in Croatian below:
http://www.jutarnji.hr/nedjeljni_jutarnji/clanak/art-2006,7,8,memorijalni_kompleks,34822.jl
Taj je kip bio postavljen na sredisnjem gradskom trgu, koji je tada nosio ime Nikole Tesle, a u međuvremenu je preimenovan u Trg Stjepana Radića. No, u siječnju 1992. Krsinićev je spomenik miniran velikom količinom eksploziva tako da se razletio u komadiće
Nevertheless, Nikola's home was 'restored' - the original building was made of wood, the new one - all brick and concrete. A brook who was running nearby was diverted to run closely to this new house. The house belongs to the Serbian orthodox church and was looted during the secession war (1991-95) by Croatian police under pretext of saving and protecting Nikola's parents belongings. Of course, all this 'honor' of 'restauration' of Nikola's birthplace was just an ocassion for many Croatian nationalists to polish their images as civilised and educated people. Not a single representative of the Serbian orthodox church or living Tesla's relative (William Terbo, Nikola's grand nephew - for example) is consulted or invited as a guest.
The Gospic town mayor Milan Kolić, who was mayor in the time of blowing up the monument and renaming the Tesla's Square into Stjepan Radic Square says:
- Ovim centrom se grad Gospić, naselje Smiljan i cijela Hrvatska zele oduziti svom slavnom sugrađaninu Nikoli Tesli - rekao je Milan Kolić, gradonačelnik Gospića koji je na čelu grada bio i tijekom Domovinskog rata.
which reads: "By this center (the Tesla's 'restored' home and the Serbian orthodox church rebulid) town Gospic and entire Croatia wants to pay tribute to their famous fellow citizen Nikola Tesla"
The whole article is written in a highly politically correct manner - not a single word that Tesla was not actually a Croat - rather a Serb. Not a single word of apology (coming form Croatians 'dignitaries') for destruction of everything that holds any memory to this great man - Nikola Tesla.
But, as to the new Croatian hero, Mirko Norac - he is still a member of so-called Alka Cavaliers Society (Vitesko alkarsko drustvo) which runs every year a medieval type contest celebrating some victory over Turks some time in the 16th century -in the Croatian town of Sinj.
Learning that, the diplomats acredited in the Croatian capital city of Zagreb - sent message to Croatia - we would not again attend the contest if Norac, a war criminal, is a member of the Alka Cavaliers Society.
http://www.jutarnji.hr/dogadjaji_dana/clanak/art-2006,7,15,sinjska_alka,36003.jl
Diplomati u RH zbog Norca će i ove godine bojkotirati Alku
Iz diplomatskog kora, međutim, stizu vrlo jasni signali kako će veleposlanici, po svemu sudeći, i ove godine bojkotirati Alku, i to zbog činjenice da je Mirko Norac jos uvijek član VAD-a, premda je osuđen za ratne zločine.
The article says that Serbian patriarch Pavle is of Croatian ancestry. I know that majority of Croatian users here would like the whole Solar system to be of Croatian ancestry, but this is way too much! -- Djordje D. Bozovic 11:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Man, this entire article should be redone (I mean it!)!!!!! There are way too many (ethnic Serb) brackets in this list! Listen you croats, if the person is an ethnic Serb, don’t even bother adding him/her because they are not one of yours. Also, I can’t believe someone had enough guts to add MARCO POLO or HAYDN on this list. This just goes to show how desperate you people are. Who’s next? Man, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kofi Annan or Abraham Lincoln were listed as croatians! GIVE ME (AND THE REST OF A WORLD) A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!
The reason why I know this mess [a gigantic list of Serbs, people who have only stepped foot on croatia (which has immediately lead croatians into believing that they are one of theirs), and people who croatians wish were croats (Marco Polo and Haydn)] was done by croatians is because if it was not (if it was done by other people) the croatians would have surly removed those individuals who are falsely listed as croats. I know first hand that you people are very (obsessively) proud of your race, history, culture, and nation (not afraid, embarrassed, or ashamed of having a national flag that is practically identical to that of the Nazi Ustasha puppet state or of the formation of a giant human swastika during a recent “friendly” soccer match between Italy). If someone vandalizes it (as is seen in this article) you people will go nuts. How come this has not occurred in this article? I would expect this article to have no problems, however this is not the case. This leads me into believing that croats have vandalized this article. Even if it was other nationalities that did this extensive false listing, I can’t believe that croatians would not react to this bogus (like Polo and Haydn as croats). Do you croats actually think that by not removing any of those names that people will think that those individuals (like Haydn) are croatian? LISTEN, PEOPLE ARE NOT STUPID!!!!!!!!!! PEOPLE WILL DOUBT AND RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!! YOU PEOPLE THINK THAT ANYONE WHO MENTIONS croatia IS croatian. F.U.C.K.!!!!!!!!!!
Ante Perkovic, I can’t believe that you responded to my comment the same day I posted it! DUDE, THIS GUY HIMSELF IS AN EXAMPLE OF A croatian FANATIC!!!!!!!!!! YOU’RE ALWAYS CHECKING IF SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY OR PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! DUDE, GET A LIFE. IF THERE IS LIKE A MOVIE OUT AND HAS NO THING TO DO WITH croatia, BUT JUST HAS SOME INSIGNIFICANT CHARACTER WHO SAYS croatia, THE ENTIRE croatian COMMUNITY WILL GO TO THE THEATRES TO WATCH THAT MOVIE!!!!!!!!!! I SWEAR!!!!!!!!!!
Apollo Creed 03:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC) The guy who started TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE