![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 8 |
-- Zarateman ( talk) 18:15, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
The Prime Minister of Peru article specifically says that the holder of that post is not head of government...but this list includes two holders of that post ( Javier Perez de Cuellar and Pedro Richter Prada) and the List of longest-living state leaders article includes three more of them.--L.E./ 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 04:42, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
The United Nations' list of heads of state and heads of government (
https://www.un.int/protocol/sites/www.un.int/files/Protocol%20and%20Liaison%20Service/hspmfm.pdf) lists both the South Korean and the Peruvian prime minister, therefore they should be on the list.
ZBukov (
talk)
15:53, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=6, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=10, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=14, A=0)
5. Upcoming (1929)
HeadlessMaster ( talk) 14:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
As the possibility of even 3 entries on this list being removed from the main list on the same day there is no need to expand the hidden list ad infinitum. Even the current 10 extras is excessive, continuing to add more is just listcruft/fancruft. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 04:15, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
As somebody noted, Peruvian Prime Ministers seem to be only representatives of President, who is both head of state and government, and as such, they would not qualify as "state leaders" and my opinion is to remove them.
On the other hand, there is dubious case of multi-person juntas and commitees without obvious leader (various South American juntas, Irish acting commission and Vatican leaders between two Popes, etc.). Those wouldn't qualify as "heads of state" in person, but are still "state leaders", in my opinion. However, I would add them as dubious cases at the end of the list, but not in the main list.
Also, what about de jure leaders which never had de facto power (one of the Somalian "leaders"), and vice versa?
More opinions, please. HeadlessMaster ( talk) 20:08, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
I want to know more opinions if we should add new addenda (besides the one for leaders older than no. 100 with unknown birthdate) for leaders with doubtful positions (members of collective presidencies without obvious leaders, acting Holy See leaders) and those who are possibly older than no.100 (those born in 1929, but with unknown date). If there is no objection, I will add it in few days. StjepanHR ( talk) 21:26, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Was there ever a particular reason that the list is fixed at 100 names, plus the various entries with unknown dates of birth? Or is there a potential to eventually revising the list to only leaders who have attained a certain age (say, 90 years or older)? Farolif ( talk) 07:00, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
1)Why former Slovenia's and Yugoslavia's Anton Vratusa (born 1915) is not on the list? 2)Tun Tin last appearance is dated back 2010. I heard he died last year, but I have no sources for that. Anyway that piece of news may be too old to consider him still alive. 3)Sibghatullah Mojaddedi. Was reported dead in February 2016. He was then said to have partecipated to the commemoration of Afghanistan victory over URSS, but I would not rely too much on that source. I think we may find another, and more recent one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Folengo ( talk • contribs) 16:39, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
2)Limit is 10 years (MAYBE too long) Lancelot ( talk) 16:49, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
I've ferreted out most of the bad sources linked here, but two remain. Carlos Romero hasn't shown his face in public since the 1980s and there isn't a recent source that claims he's alive (although I think he's living in exile in Texas). Citing Britannica proves nothing. He died on 27 February 2017.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the source for Ri Kun-mo (aka Li Gun-mo, Li Geun-mo, 이근모, 리근모, 李根模) actually references him in the present tense. He published something in 2004 and this gives a good chronology of his life through 2001. It's possible that he edited something in 2007, but I believe that's just somebody else with the same name in Chinese. It would not be surprising for a death to go unreported from North Korea.
My vote is that these be hidden unless somebody can find a 10-year source. Thoughts? Star Garnet ( talk) 05:11, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
Tun Tin page was modified by an anonymous user on October the 15th 2016, to say he was dead. The user also modified the page of Burmese Prime Ministers. No wonder if Tun Tin's death has gone unreported in Burma. -- Folengo ( talk) 11:07, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
I am not an expert on Palau, but to me, it seems that he was a leader before they gained an independence. More opinions, please? StjepanHR ( talk) 17:02, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=6, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
StjepanHR ( talk) 01:17, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
This man appears on the list, relying on the 2015 article, but he does not appear on this other list though he presumably turned 100 on March the 2nd. The 100th birthday of a state leader is usually reported by the press. The fact Awadalla's birthday was NOT reported by any Sudan news agency makes me not so sure he's still alive. Maybe an article will come out in two/three days, but, if it doesn't, there will be a considerable incongruence between the lists. -- Folengo ( talk) 18:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
The person is defined as a state leader, is old enough for inclusion in the list and has not been reported to have died. Not true at all. Ri Kun-mo has not been reported to have died, but he's not on the list. -- Folengo ( talk) 09:45, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
I always suspected it. His birthday would have been reported for sure by the press. Thanks, EternalNomad. I'm also really doubtful about Tun Tin being still alive, but that's another story ;-)-- Folengo ( talk) 20:43, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm doubtful about the following state leaders being still alive. Seeing how Awadalla's death went unreported for months, this doubts are not unfounded.
1) Tun Tin (1920). Myanmar wiki says his date of birth is 1923, French adfirms it's 1930 (that may be a simple mistake, of course). No sources about him since 2010, which is a long long time. My PC is not able to read this facebook post of December the 22nd 2012. It may be important, it may be not. In my personal opinion Tun Tin may have died in 2015 or 2016, his death going unreported. There may be some obituary in his language, but it may be really difficult to find. To give the odds, dead 75%, alive 25%.
2) Mustafa Ben Halim (1921). Four years since his last sighting. Lybia has been in a difficult and chaotic situation after 2013, so he could have died without anyone noticing it. I can't find any source after 2013. He appared to be quite fat, too so the odds to find him still alive are quite low. Since his death has not been reported, I'd say 50% alive, 50% dead.
3) Abdelmalek Benhabyles (1921). Algeria was spared by the Arab revolutions of 2011 and deaths of important politicians usually go reported (see Smail Hamdani). I found this, but my PC is not able to read it without blocking. It's from January 2017. According to me he's still alive, but we must find a recent source to testify that. Alive 80%, Dead 20%
4) Arturo Armando Molina (1927). No sources since 2008. El Salvador recently reported Romero's death, so I guess Molina's death would be reported too. Just need to find a recent source. Alive 75%, Dead 25%.
5)Mohammad Hasan Sharq (1925) Nothing in four years and Afghanistan is not the best place to live nowadays. Alive 65%, Dead 35%
6)Gombojavyn Ochirbat (1929) Six years are a long time. Alive 65%, Dead 35%
7)Sean Treacy (1923) I think his death would be reported in Ireland, so he might be still alive. Alive 70% Dead 30%. -- Folengo ( talk) 12:52, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
1) I agree with you on him.
2) There are several Youtube videos of him posted in 2014 (i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOSygjU4r9M ), although I don't know if they are from the 2014. However, he is more well known than some other leaders whose death was reported, so I think he is either alive or, if not, there are reports of his death.
3) I am confident he is alive or many sources would be there of his death.
4) Again, I agree with you.
5) Same as for Ben Halim.
6) He is not a well known person, but his party is in power with huge majority currently and he is still a respected figure, so I guess they would report the death of their former leader.
7) I am confident he is alive. In my country (Croatia), death of somebody who held similar position would not only be reported, but would be on all news StjepanHR ( talk) 13:28, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
I'd say there's a good reason Krastyu Trichkov hasn't had an article until recently. I can't find anything that puts him alive this century unless this has something Google isn't picking up on. I also don't think his position qualifies. Any thoughts? Star Garnet ( talk) 08:53, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Some IP removed him from the list adfirming he was Prime Minister when Croatia was not independent. I'd tend to consider Croatia's independece beginning from its declaration on June the 25th 1991. Manolic should not be removed, the declaration was made when he was Prime Minister. We have frequent updates on him and his health, it would be a waste to remove him with such reasons. -- Folengo ( talk) 19:50, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
I cannot access the source for Rota Onorio because the parliament site doesn't load (I'm in the USA). Can someone who can access it post a screenshot so that we can verify he's still alive? I also think he should be on the main list if confirmed, because he is listed under President of Kiribati, so his status really is unambiguous. EternalNomad ( talk) 22:05, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Seems to be active on MyHeritage: https://www.myheritage.es/member-206516331_75176621/alfonso-lovo-cordero
Same name and his son is listed as "Lovo Blandon", which is correct, according to this: http://www.splicetoday.com/music/the-dance-will-show-the-way
More opinions, please? StjepanHR ( talk) 14:30, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the link I posted indicates he was alive in 2011. The article appears to mention him working on a project. I think that is the correct person in the article according to [7]. EternalNomad ( talk) 20:01, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Do you think this ( http://www.tributes.com/obituary/show/Ruben-A.-Rosales-71398817 ), this ( http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=LTi3&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=Reuben&gsln=Rosales&msypn__ftp=CA&pcat=BMD_DEATH&h=20289613&dbid=70050&indiv=1&ml_rpos=20 ) and this ( http://www.worldstatesmen.org/El_Salvador.html ) is enough to confirm he is dead or we should leave him on the "possibilities" list? StjepanHR ( talk) 09:21, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia is assumed to be current. Having a "living as of" column contravenes this. Therefore I propose that the column be removed. As with other such age-based lists, inclusion should be accepted once there is a report that the person is/was alive at an age which would see them included (not several/many years earlier). DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 04:06, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Dont' say that. There's a great work behind this page and sources are fundamental! It may be really difficult to track down people like Tun Tin or ben Halim without sources. Please don't demonize IP editors. They are in good faith. -- Folengo ( talk) 16:22, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
An anonymous IP has made it their mission to update every leaders most recent report of being alive. This is unnecessary. The people on this list sufficiently notable for their death to be reported almost immediately (with the occasional exception). I see no point in flooding this article with updates more frequently more than once a year. It is of more concern that someone with a last report of being alive more than a year ago may in fact be dead than "hasn't died in the last 3 days since the previous report". DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 00:24, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
The problem is he updates always the same people, and we know they are still alive. It would be useful if he finds updates for people like Tun Tin, Molina, Sharq and others. Everyone can find an update on Napolitano or Mugabe or Kaunda or Tinsulanonda almost every week, but that is just useless. An update on one of those I cited before would be really precious. But no one here is Superman, I guess ;>| -- Folengo ( talk) 13:47, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Twitter profile of Kim Yong-ju. Don't know if it's fake but it's very likely. -- Folengo ( talk) 14:36, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protection would likely be best, seeing as the IP(s) are still making these un-necessary updates. GoodDay ( talk) 21:00, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm gonna start reverting such useless updates, if they're less then 3 months apart, from the last updates. For example, we don't need an update every week, that George H.W. Bush is still alive. GoodDay ( talk) 21:56, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
I've requested Page Protection. There are so many of these pointless updates it is a burden to verify them. It's a form of vandalism, like the guy that is inserting spaces all over the place. This page should come up on my watch list when someone on the list dies, not 20 times a day. Legacypac ( talk) 07:05, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Certain people are on the supplemental status-questioned table because of interim significance when a top leadership position is unfilled...e.g. the Dean of the Sacred College and Chamberlain of the Holy Roman Church during the period in which there is no Pope.However,while the Assembly of Experts selects the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran,its chairman would only be considered in leadership during a vacancy,and none has occurred while Ahmad Jannati has been chairman.Unless he's still in office when Ali Khamenei dies,I don't see why he's on the list.--L.E./ 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 03:58, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
StjepanHR ( talk) 06:43, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
User:Mewulwe recently modified the dates for former
Syrian Prime Minister and
Syrian President
Izzat al-Nuss from (1900–1972) to (1912– ), which would make him #1 on this list and +105 years old. Mewulwe also left this reference note from Google Books in German (
https://books.google.de/books?id=zWRmAAAAMAAJ&q=nuss+izzat+1912&dq=nuss+izzat+1912&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y). Could someone please verify this and confirm that al-Nuss is still living?
Given that Syria is mostly in chaos right now, the only places where someone geriatric who is friendly to the Assads could survive within Syria right now would be in Latakia Province or in the immediate Damascus area. – Jwkozak91 ( talk) 21:50, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
StjepanHR ( talk) 06:43, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
The sources for the position:
Is there a way to re-arrange the top images, so that they're presented horizontally, instead of each on top of the other? GoodDay ( talk) 17:57, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
I see a number of acting leaders, so I presume they are included. But then, there are many (perhaps dozens) we are missing. Mangosuthu Buthelezi was acting president of South Africa 22 times (!) and yet is missing. Should he be included? Should Dick Cheney be included when he is old enough, as he was acting president when Bush was undergoing surgery in 2007? EternalNomad ( talk) 03:08, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Slovenian Prime Minister Anton Vratusa has died aged 102. -- Folengo ( talk) 17:21, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
There is an edit war on Babiker Awadalla. This source says he's still alive and living in Dublin, while this obituary seems to indicate he died in Egypt in September 2016. According to Rulers.org Awadalla died in 2016, but they probably knew it from Wikipedia (and therefore from the previous obit). We should decide what to do, clear and simple. -- Folengo ( talk) 16:48, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
My opinion is that since his living status is unclear he should be removed as this list is only for people we know for sure are living.-- Dorglorg —Preceding undated comment added 02:04, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
I suppose I should have anticipated this a couple of years ago when the Wikipedia consensus shifted to validating the delusions of one of the rival Chinese governments rather than sticking to the facts on the ground they both make a policy of ignoring. As a "Two Chinas" diehard I regard "China" as a geographic expression never to be used for a particular nation-state in the post-1949 era,and the pretenses of the Republic of China and People's Republic of China that the other does not exist as total irrelevances...the assertion that the former is Taiwan may have a basis in reality,but calling the latter simply China is contrafactual and best avoided. Now someone partial to this philosophy has taken the next step and decided that the PRC should be regarded as governing the territory of the ROC (which has not ever happened in the history of the PRC)...and that leaders of the ROC (a de facto nation larger in various ways than many whose leaders are in the article without comment) are to be placed in the dubious section. Will no one resist? L.E./ 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 11:36, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
What do you think of creating an article with the oldest first ladies still alive? Cecilia Caballero Blanco (Colombia, 30 September 1913, age 103), Barbara Bush (United States, 8 June 1925, age 92), Amelita Ramos (Philippines, 29 January 1926, age 91), Rosalynn Carter (United States, 18 August 1927, age 90), Imelda Marcos (Philippines, 2 July 1929, age 88), Ngina Kenyatta (Kenya, 24 June 1933, age 84) 201.30.109.226 ( talk) 13:49, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
(Some people have been adding people born in 1930 to the hidden list...I think that is premature!)-- 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 05:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Lately some people's membership of the Polish Council of State has been noted either on the main list or the dubious list...I think this is an overbroad interpretation of allowing "members of collective presidencies".The Council of State had a Chairman,who was considered the Polish head of state,and only those who were members during a vacancy of the chairmanship would be considered at the topmost level and thus qualified for inclusion.I recommend deletion. 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 05:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
I see it was recently removed as "not a state leader position"...for part of that tenure Zimbabwe was a one-party state.Should the party leadership positions held by Do Muoi, Milos Jakes, Rezso Nyers. Khamtai Siphandon, Stanislaw Kania,et al also be removed? (Still no response on the members of the Polish Council of State,which had a chairman.If all members of "collective presidencies" that have designated heads,rather than just those heads,are "state leaders" then members of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet,etc. would be eligible). 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 01:06, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I propose deleting Miloš Jakeš and Rezső Nyers from this list because they never held any of the leading government positions in their countries (e.g. President, Prime Mnister, President of the Presidency of the Republic, Member of the Presidency of the Republic...) that would qualify them to be considered de jure leaders of their countries. I am well aware that 99,99% of the time in cases where the party chairman and the de jure head of state/head of government of a country in the Eastern Bloc were not the same person, that meant that the de jure leader was just a puppet and all the real influence was with the party chairman, BUT, constitutionally the puppet head of state or government was the leader of that respective country (be it in the form of a single leader or a council of 10, 15, 30, 50 people...). Another reason I would discourage the inclusion of people who were considered only de facto leaders is because it opens up a whole pool of possibilities on how to define de facto leaders. For example, even some party chairmen had times when they were locked in a power struggle with leaders of other party factions, and then the issue of who the de facto leader was pulling the strings attached to the puppet presidents or collective heads of state becomes anyone's guess. As the most constructive proposition I can think of is to just crate a separate table for all these (usually communist) de facto leaders who's true power came solely from party influence and positions and not formal government hierarchy or structures. That way their status as the de facto most influential people in a country is recognized and there is less room for arbitrary definitions of who should or should not be included. Northernelk888 ( talk) 10:12, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Recommend we limit the images to two individuals. The oldest living & the oldest living incumbent. GoodDay ( talk) 16:47, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Javier Perez de Cuellar served as Prime Minister of Peru, but in Peru, the "prime minister" is the head of the cabinet, not the head of government nor the head of state. 148.85.224.108 ( talk) 20:53, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1916): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1916-1920): (U=5, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1921-1925): (U=6, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1926-1929): (U=3, A=1)
5. Upcoming (1930)
I don't see anything in that source to indicate Molina is still alive, just no mention of his death Emk9 ( talk) 18:49, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 8 |
-- Zarateman ( talk) 18:15, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
The Prime Minister of Peru article specifically says that the holder of that post is not head of government...but this list includes two holders of that post ( Javier Perez de Cuellar and Pedro Richter Prada) and the List of longest-living state leaders article includes three more of them.--L.E./ 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 04:42, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
The United Nations' list of heads of state and heads of government (
https://www.un.int/protocol/sites/www.un.int/files/Protocol%20and%20Liaison%20Service/hspmfm.pdf) lists both the South Korean and the Peruvian prime minister, therefore they should be on the list.
ZBukov (
talk)
15:53, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=6, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=10, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=14, A=0)
5. Upcoming (1929)
HeadlessMaster ( talk) 14:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
As the possibility of even 3 entries on this list being removed from the main list on the same day there is no need to expand the hidden list ad infinitum. Even the current 10 extras is excessive, continuing to add more is just listcruft/fancruft. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 04:15, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
As somebody noted, Peruvian Prime Ministers seem to be only representatives of President, who is both head of state and government, and as such, they would not qualify as "state leaders" and my opinion is to remove them.
On the other hand, there is dubious case of multi-person juntas and commitees without obvious leader (various South American juntas, Irish acting commission and Vatican leaders between two Popes, etc.). Those wouldn't qualify as "heads of state" in person, but are still "state leaders", in my opinion. However, I would add them as dubious cases at the end of the list, but not in the main list.
Also, what about de jure leaders which never had de facto power (one of the Somalian "leaders"), and vice versa?
More opinions, please. HeadlessMaster ( talk) 20:08, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
I want to know more opinions if we should add new addenda (besides the one for leaders older than no. 100 with unknown birthdate) for leaders with doubtful positions (members of collective presidencies without obvious leaders, acting Holy See leaders) and those who are possibly older than no.100 (those born in 1929, but with unknown date). If there is no objection, I will add it in few days. StjepanHR ( talk) 21:26, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Was there ever a particular reason that the list is fixed at 100 names, plus the various entries with unknown dates of birth? Or is there a potential to eventually revising the list to only leaders who have attained a certain age (say, 90 years or older)? Farolif ( talk) 07:00, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
1)Why former Slovenia's and Yugoslavia's Anton Vratusa (born 1915) is not on the list? 2)Tun Tin last appearance is dated back 2010. I heard he died last year, but I have no sources for that. Anyway that piece of news may be too old to consider him still alive. 3)Sibghatullah Mojaddedi. Was reported dead in February 2016. He was then said to have partecipated to the commemoration of Afghanistan victory over URSS, but I would not rely too much on that source. I think we may find another, and more recent one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Folengo ( talk • contribs) 16:39, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
2)Limit is 10 years (MAYBE too long) Lancelot ( talk) 16:49, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
I've ferreted out most of the bad sources linked here, but two remain. Carlos Romero hasn't shown his face in public since the 1980s and there isn't a recent source that claims he's alive (although I think he's living in exile in Texas). Citing Britannica proves nothing. He died on 27 February 2017.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the source for Ri Kun-mo (aka Li Gun-mo, Li Geun-mo, 이근모, 리근모, 李根模) actually references him in the present tense. He published something in 2004 and this gives a good chronology of his life through 2001. It's possible that he edited something in 2007, but I believe that's just somebody else with the same name in Chinese. It would not be surprising for a death to go unreported from North Korea.
My vote is that these be hidden unless somebody can find a 10-year source. Thoughts? Star Garnet ( talk) 05:11, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
Tun Tin page was modified by an anonymous user on October the 15th 2016, to say he was dead. The user also modified the page of Burmese Prime Ministers. No wonder if Tun Tin's death has gone unreported in Burma. -- Folengo ( talk) 11:07, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
I am not an expert on Palau, but to me, it seems that he was a leader before they gained an independence. More opinions, please? StjepanHR ( talk) 17:02, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=6, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
StjepanHR ( talk) 01:17, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
This man appears on the list, relying on the 2015 article, but he does not appear on this other list though he presumably turned 100 on March the 2nd. The 100th birthday of a state leader is usually reported by the press. The fact Awadalla's birthday was NOT reported by any Sudan news agency makes me not so sure he's still alive. Maybe an article will come out in two/three days, but, if it doesn't, there will be a considerable incongruence between the lists. -- Folengo ( talk) 18:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
The person is defined as a state leader, is old enough for inclusion in the list and has not been reported to have died. Not true at all. Ri Kun-mo has not been reported to have died, but he's not on the list. -- Folengo ( talk) 09:45, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
I always suspected it. His birthday would have been reported for sure by the press. Thanks, EternalNomad. I'm also really doubtful about Tun Tin being still alive, but that's another story ;-)-- Folengo ( talk) 20:43, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm doubtful about the following state leaders being still alive. Seeing how Awadalla's death went unreported for months, this doubts are not unfounded.
1) Tun Tin (1920). Myanmar wiki says his date of birth is 1923, French adfirms it's 1930 (that may be a simple mistake, of course). No sources about him since 2010, which is a long long time. My PC is not able to read this facebook post of December the 22nd 2012. It may be important, it may be not. In my personal opinion Tun Tin may have died in 2015 or 2016, his death going unreported. There may be some obituary in his language, but it may be really difficult to find. To give the odds, dead 75%, alive 25%.
2) Mustafa Ben Halim (1921). Four years since his last sighting. Lybia has been in a difficult and chaotic situation after 2013, so he could have died without anyone noticing it. I can't find any source after 2013. He appared to be quite fat, too so the odds to find him still alive are quite low. Since his death has not been reported, I'd say 50% alive, 50% dead.
3) Abdelmalek Benhabyles (1921). Algeria was spared by the Arab revolutions of 2011 and deaths of important politicians usually go reported (see Smail Hamdani). I found this, but my PC is not able to read it without blocking. It's from January 2017. According to me he's still alive, but we must find a recent source to testify that. Alive 80%, Dead 20%
4) Arturo Armando Molina (1927). No sources since 2008. El Salvador recently reported Romero's death, so I guess Molina's death would be reported too. Just need to find a recent source. Alive 75%, Dead 25%.
5)Mohammad Hasan Sharq (1925) Nothing in four years and Afghanistan is not the best place to live nowadays. Alive 65%, Dead 35%
6)Gombojavyn Ochirbat (1929) Six years are a long time. Alive 65%, Dead 35%
7)Sean Treacy (1923) I think his death would be reported in Ireland, so he might be still alive. Alive 70% Dead 30%. -- Folengo ( talk) 12:52, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
1) I agree with you on him.
2) There are several Youtube videos of him posted in 2014 (i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOSygjU4r9M ), although I don't know if they are from the 2014. However, he is more well known than some other leaders whose death was reported, so I think he is either alive or, if not, there are reports of his death.
3) I am confident he is alive or many sources would be there of his death.
4) Again, I agree with you.
5) Same as for Ben Halim.
6) He is not a well known person, but his party is in power with huge majority currently and he is still a respected figure, so I guess they would report the death of their former leader.
7) I am confident he is alive. In my country (Croatia), death of somebody who held similar position would not only be reported, but would be on all news StjepanHR ( talk) 13:28, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
I'd say there's a good reason Krastyu Trichkov hasn't had an article until recently. I can't find anything that puts him alive this century unless this has something Google isn't picking up on. I also don't think his position qualifies. Any thoughts? Star Garnet ( talk) 08:53, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Some IP removed him from the list adfirming he was Prime Minister when Croatia was not independent. I'd tend to consider Croatia's independece beginning from its declaration on June the 25th 1991. Manolic should not be removed, the declaration was made when he was Prime Minister. We have frequent updates on him and his health, it would be a waste to remove him with such reasons. -- Folengo ( talk) 19:50, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
I cannot access the source for Rota Onorio because the parliament site doesn't load (I'm in the USA). Can someone who can access it post a screenshot so that we can verify he's still alive? I also think he should be on the main list if confirmed, because he is listed under President of Kiribati, so his status really is unambiguous. EternalNomad ( talk) 22:05, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Seems to be active on MyHeritage: https://www.myheritage.es/member-206516331_75176621/alfonso-lovo-cordero
Same name and his son is listed as "Lovo Blandon", which is correct, according to this: http://www.splicetoday.com/music/the-dance-will-show-the-way
More opinions, please? StjepanHR ( talk) 14:30, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the link I posted indicates he was alive in 2011. The article appears to mention him working on a project. I think that is the correct person in the article according to [7]. EternalNomad ( talk) 20:01, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Do you think this ( http://www.tributes.com/obituary/show/Ruben-A.-Rosales-71398817 ), this ( http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=LTi3&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=Reuben&gsln=Rosales&msypn__ftp=CA&pcat=BMD_DEATH&h=20289613&dbid=70050&indiv=1&ml_rpos=20 ) and this ( http://www.worldstatesmen.org/El_Salvador.html ) is enough to confirm he is dead or we should leave him on the "possibilities" list? StjepanHR ( talk) 09:21, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia is assumed to be current. Having a "living as of" column contravenes this. Therefore I propose that the column be removed. As with other such age-based lists, inclusion should be accepted once there is a report that the person is/was alive at an age which would see them included (not several/many years earlier). DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 04:06, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Dont' say that. There's a great work behind this page and sources are fundamental! It may be really difficult to track down people like Tun Tin or ben Halim without sources. Please don't demonize IP editors. They are in good faith. -- Folengo ( talk) 16:22, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
An anonymous IP has made it their mission to update every leaders most recent report of being alive. This is unnecessary. The people on this list sufficiently notable for their death to be reported almost immediately (with the occasional exception). I see no point in flooding this article with updates more frequently more than once a year. It is of more concern that someone with a last report of being alive more than a year ago may in fact be dead than "hasn't died in the last 3 days since the previous report". DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 00:24, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
The problem is he updates always the same people, and we know they are still alive. It would be useful if he finds updates for people like Tun Tin, Molina, Sharq and others. Everyone can find an update on Napolitano or Mugabe or Kaunda or Tinsulanonda almost every week, but that is just useless. An update on one of those I cited before would be really precious. But no one here is Superman, I guess ;>| -- Folengo ( talk) 13:47, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Twitter profile of Kim Yong-ju. Don't know if it's fake but it's very likely. -- Folengo ( talk) 14:36, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protection would likely be best, seeing as the IP(s) are still making these un-necessary updates. GoodDay ( talk) 21:00, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm gonna start reverting such useless updates, if they're less then 3 months apart, from the last updates. For example, we don't need an update every week, that George H.W. Bush is still alive. GoodDay ( talk) 21:56, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
I've requested Page Protection. There are so many of these pointless updates it is a burden to verify them. It's a form of vandalism, like the guy that is inserting spaces all over the place. This page should come up on my watch list when someone on the list dies, not 20 times a day. Legacypac ( talk) 07:05, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Certain people are on the supplemental status-questioned table because of interim significance when a top leadership position is unfilled...e.g. the Dean of the Sacred College and Chamberlain of the Holy Roman Church during the period in which there is no Pope.However,while the Assembly of Experts selects the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran,its chairman would only be considered in leadership during a vacancy,and none has occurred while Ahmad Jannati has been chairman.Unless he's still in office when Ali Khamenei dies,I don't see why he's on the list.--L.E./ 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 03:58, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
StjepanHR ( talk) 06:43, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
User:Mewulwe recently modified the dates for former
Syrian Prime Minister and
Syrian President
Izzat al-Nuss from (1900–1972) to (1912– ), which would make him #1 on this list and +105 years old. Mewulwe also left this reference note from Google Books in German (
https://books.google.de/books?id=zWRmAAAAMAAJ&q=nuss+izzat+1912&dq=nuss+izzat+1912&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y). Could someone please verify this and confirm that al-Nuss is still living?
Given that Syria is mostly in chaos right now, the only places where someone geriatric who is friendly to the Assads could survive within Syria right now would be in Latakia Province or in the immediate Damascus area. – Jwkozak91 ( talk) 21:50, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
StjepanHR ( talk) 06:43, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
The sources for the position:
Is there a way to re-arrange the top images, so that they're presented horizontally, instead of each on top of the other? GoodDay ( talk) 17:57, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
I see a number of acting leaders, so I presume they are included. But then, there are many (perhaps dozens) we are missing. Mangosuthu Buthelezi was acting president of South Africa 22 times (!) and yet is missing. Should he be included? Should Dick Cheney be included when he is old enough, as he was acting president when Bush was undergoing surgery in 2007? EternalNomad ( talk) 03:08, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
Slovenian Prime Minister Anton Vratusa has died aged 102. -- Folengo ( talk) 17:21, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
There is an edit war on Babiker Awadalla. This source says he's still alive and living in Dublin, while this obituary seems to indicate he died in Egypt in September 2016. According to Rulers.org Awadalla died in 2016, but they probably knew it from Wikipedia (and therefore from the previous obit). We should decide what to do, clear and simple. -- Folengo ( talk) 16:48, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
My opinion is that since his living status is unclear he should be removed as this list is only for people we know for sure are living.-- Dorglorg —Preceding undated comment added 02:04, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
I suppose I should have anticipated this a couple of years ago when the Wikipedia consensus shifted to validating the delusions of one of the rival Chinese governments rather than sticking to the facts on the ground they both make a policy of ignoring. As a "Two Chinas" diehard I regard "China" as a geographic expression never to be used for a particular nation-state in the post-1949 era,and the pretenses of the Republic of China and People's Republic of China that the other does not exist as total irrelevances...the assertion that the former is Taiwan may have a basis in reality,but calling the latter simply China is contrafactual and best avoided. Now someone partial to this philosophy has taken the next step and decided that the PRC should be regarded as governing the territory of the ROC (which has not ever happened in the history of the PRC)...and that leaders of the ROC (a de facto nation larger in various ways than many whose leaders are in the article without comment) are to be placed in the dubious section. Will no one resist? L.E./ 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 11:36, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
What do you think of creating an article with the oldest first ladies still alive? Cecilia Caballero Blanco (Colombia, 30 September 1913, age 103), Barbara Bush (United States, 8 June 1925, age 92), Amelita Ramos (Philippines, 29 January 1926, age 91), Rosalynn Carter (United States, 18 August 1927, age 90), Imelda Marcos (Philippines, 2 July 1929, age 88), Ngina Kenyatta (Kenya, 24 June 1933, age 84) 201.30.109.226 ( talk) 13:49, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1914): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1914-1918): (U=4, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1919-1923): (U=7, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1924-1928): (U=5, A=3)
5. Upcoming (1929)
(Some people have been adding people born in 1930 to the hidden list...I think that is premature!)-- 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 05:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Lately some people's membership of the Polish Council of State has been noted either on the main list or the dubious list...I think this is an overbroad interpretation of allowing "members of collective presidencies".The Council of State had a Chairman,who was considered the Polish head of state,and only those who were members during a vacancy of the chairmanship would be considered at the topmost level and thus qualified for inclusion.I recommend deletion. 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 05:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
I see it was recently removed as "not a state leader position"...for part of that tenure Zimbabwe was a one-party state.Should the party leadership positions held by Do Muoi, Milos Jakes, Rezso Nyers. Khamtai Siphandon, Stanislaw Kania,et al also be removed? (Still no response on the members of the Polish Council of State,which had a chairman.If all members of "collective presidencies" that have designated heads,rather than just those heads,are "state leaders" then members of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet,etc. would be eligible). 12.144.5.2 ( talk) 01:06, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I propose deleting Miloš Jakeš and Rezső Nyers from this list because they never held any of the leading government positions in their countries (e.g. President, Prime Mnister, President of the Presidency of the Republic, Member of the Presidency of the Republic...) that would qualify them to be considered de jure leaders of their countries. I am well aware that 99,99% of the time in cases where the party chairman and the de jure head of state/head of government of a country in the Eastern Bloc were not the same person, that meant that the de jure leader was just a puppet and all the real influence was with the party chairman, BUT, constitutionally the puppet head of state or government was the leader of that respective country (be it in the form of a single leader or a council of 10, 15, 30, 50 people...). Another reason I would discourage the inclusion of people who were considered only de facto leaders is because it opens up a whole pool of possibilities on how to define de facto leaders. For example, even some party chairmen had times when they were locked in a power struggle with leaders of other party factions, and then the issue of who the de facto leader was pulling the strings attached to the puppet presidents or collective heads of state becomes anyone's guess. As the most constructive proposition I can think of is to just crate a separate table for all these (usually communist) de facto leaders who's true power came solely from party influence and positions and not formal government hierarchy or structures. That way their status as the de facto most influential people in a country is recognized and there is less room for arbitrary definitions of who should or should not be included. Northernelk888 ( talk) 10:12, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Recommend we limit the images to two individuals. The oldest living & the oldest living incumbent. GoodDay ( talk) 16:47, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Javier Perez de Cuellar served as Prime Minister of Peru, but in Peru, the "prime minister" is the head of the cabinet, not the head of government nor the head of state. 148.85.224.108 ( talk) 20:53, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
1. Highly unlikely of being alive (born before 1916): (U=7, A=0)
2. Unlikely to be alive (1916-1920): (U=5, A=0)
3. Moderate possibility of being alive (1921-1925): (U=6, A=0)
4. Good possibility of being alive (1926-1929): (U=3, A=1)
5. Upcoming (1930)
I don't see anything in that source to indicate Molina is still alive, just no mention of his death Emk9 ( talk) 18:49, 17 February 2018 (UTC)