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Can someone explain to me why this article is called "List of native plants of Palestine" and not "List of native plants of Israel" particularly since all the plants have their name listed in Hebrew and none have it listed in Arabic?
I object to the move. This is a botany article, not a politics article. Palestine is used because the scholarship on the subject uses Palestine. Changing the name to Israel might require that we go through the list and remove entries that are unique to what are today the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I don't want to go there. So hold off on your move please.
Tiamuttalk10:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)reply
With all due respect, "I don't want to go there" is not good enough. You obviously copied this list from an Israeli source, why don't you tell us what it is?
I also suspect you used "Palestine" rather than "Israel" for political reasons. Particularly since in, for example,
Outline of Palestine you say the Golan Heights are not a part of Palestine but here you include them. When are you going to remove entries that are unique to the Golan Heights?
Your wiki moniker is certainly apt considering your response. If you bothered to check the article history, you will see that I did not create this article, nor did I pick the title. I have been trying to add wikilinks to the plants listed (linking to their Latin names) and have had it watchlisted since I started that effort. Instead of making (false) assumptions about my personal motives, why not peruse the botanical literature to see what term they use? I can assure you its Palestine (referring to the region, not the state). Its apolitical in that way, no?
Tiamuttalk10:45, 21 July 2009 (UTC)reply
PS. I don't know what you are talking about regarding the Golan Heights in the Outline of Palestine article. Again, try reading article histories before failing to
assume good faith.
PPS. The book used as a reference seems to have Flora Palestina written by an Israeli author. Given that the geographical definition given for Palestine includes the Transjordan, a rename to Native plants of Israel would be flat out wrong.
Tiamuttalk10:59, 21 July 2009 (UTC)reply
So you're saying the Golan Heights are part of Palestine?
Anyway, what's the source for this article? I'm having trouble finding it. No source = OR if I'm not mistaken.
By the way, I liked the write-something-not-so-nice-then-immediately-strike-it trick. I'll have to remember that.
I'm in no mood to argue, so please read my next words very carefully.
I did not write this article. According to the article history,
Gidip (
talk ·contribs) did. In the text, the book Flora Palestina is mentioned. A google search reveals this is the title of many works on the botany of Palestine, beginning with Hasselquist, whose work was published by Linnaues
[1] in the late 18th century. In contemporary times, Flora Palestina is the name of a 1972 book by M. Zohary of the Israel Academy of Sciences and the Humanities
[2]. This phrase seems to be the most common way of referring to the plant life of Palestine.
I also never said anything about Golan Heights. You did. And I told you above I did not write the bit you keep referring to in the
Outline of Palestine, something you would know if you did a little homework and checked the article history page. I don't know why you keep bringing the issue up. It has nothing to do with this discussion.
I left a note for Gidip alerting him to this discussion and your intention to nom the article for deletion. Checking his contribs history, its unlikely that he will respond, since he pops in every few months and then pops out. I notice he also created
List of adventive wild plants in Israel which deals with plants introduced into the area by human activity. He seems to have intimate scholarly knowledge of this subject. I believe he titled this article this way because the scholarship supports this name, just as the scholarship on the article he created would support that name. I think you are overlooking the issue here that Palestine in this case refers to the geographical region which extends beyond the boundaries of British Mandate Palestine, into modern day Jordan, etc. Changing Palestine to Israel in this case would be totally inaccurate. But if you want to go ahead and Afd this, you are free to do so. Cheers.
Tiamuttalk12:31, 22 July 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm in no rush to delete this. We'll wait a while and see if he pops in and can provide more details on his source.
I do know that for the first couple of years of Mandate, Transjordan was administered as part of Palestine, yes. Irrelevant here though.
Tiamuttalk15:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)reply
Also, lets not forget that we have no idea what exact area this article covers since we don't even know what its source is. Actually, if you look at the edit history Gidip specifically says he did not add the East Bank stuff. So "Israel and Palestine" should cover it nicely.
No More Mr Nice Guy (
talk)
10:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)reply
I disagree that a name change is necessary. Gidip doesn't say he not add East Bank stuff. He wrote "missing many species from the east bank, sorry", which means he did add some but is missing some as well. The book he cites Flora Palestina gives a definition of its geographical scope which he includes in the intro. I don't see what the problem is with the current name.
Palestine is used appropriately in this case and substitutes would be wordy and inaccurate.
Tiamuttalk14:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)reply
I've never seen any reference of Golan and Hermon being part of Palestine. Transjordan - perhaps, maybe even parts of Sinai, but never Golan, Mount Lebanon and Mount Hermon ridges.
GreyShark (
dibra)
16:14, 18 September 2016 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all
list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic
Palestine region, the
Palestinian people and the
State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting
the project page, where you can add your name to the
list of members where you can contribute to the
discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
plants and
botany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PlantsWikipedia:WikiProject PlantsTemplate:WikiProject Plantsplant articles
Can someone explain to me why this article is called "List of native plants of Palestine" and not "List of native plants of Israel" particularly since all the plants have their name listed in Hebrew and none have it listed in Arabic?
I object to the move. This is a botany article, not a politics article. Palestine is used because the scholarship on the subject uses Palestine. Changing the name to Israel might require that we go through the list and remove entries that are unique to what are today the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I don't want to go there. So hold off on your move please.
Tiamuttalk10:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)reply
With all due respect, "I don't want to go there" is not good enough. You obviously copied this list from an Israeli source, why don't you tell us what it is?
I also suspect you used "Palestine" rather than "Israel" for political reasons. Particularly since in, for example,
Outline of Palestine you say the Golan Heights are not a part of Palestine but here you include them. When are you going to remove entries that are unique to the Golan Heights?
Your wiki moniker is certainly apt considering your response. If you bothered to check the article history, you will see that I did not create this article, nor did I pick the title. I have been trying to add wikilinks to the plants listed (linking to their Latin names) and have had it watchlisted since I started that effort. Instead of making (false) assumptions about my personal motives, why not peruse the botanical literature to see what term they use? I can assure you its Palestine (referring to the region, not the state). Its apolitical in that way, no?
Tiamuttalk10:45, 21 July 2009 (UTC)reply
PS. I don't know what you are talking about regarding the Golan Heights in the Outline of Palestine article. Again, try reading article histories before failing to
assume good faith.
PPS. The book used as a reference seems to have Flora Palestina written by an Israeli author. Given that the geographical definition given for Palestine includes the Transjordan, a rename to Native plants of Israel would be flat out wrong.
Tiamuttalk10:59, 21 July 2009 (UTC)reply
So you're saying the Golan Heights are part of Palestine?
Anyway, what's the source for this article? I'm having trouble finding it. No source = OR if I'm not mistaken.
By the way, I liked the write-something-not-so-nice-then-immediately-strike-it trick. I'll have to remember that.
I'm in no mood to argue, so please read my next words very carefully.
I did not write this article. According to the article history,
Gidip (
talk ·contribs) did. In the text, the book Flora Palestina is mentioned. A google search reveals this is the title of many works on the botany of Palestine, beginning with Hasselquist, whose work was published by Linnaues
[1] in the late 18th century. In contemporary times, Flora Palestina is the name of a 1972 book by M. Zohary of the Israel Academy of Sciences and the Humanities
[2]. This phrase seems to be the most common way of referring to the plant life of Palestine.
I also never said anything about Golan Heights. You did. And I told you above I did not write the bit you keep referring to in the
Outline of Palestine, something you would know if you did a little homework and checked the article history page. I don't know why you keep bringing the issue up. It has nothing to do with this discussion.
I left a note for Gidip alerting him to this discussion and your intention to nom the article for deletion. Checking his contribs history, its unlikely that he will respond, since he pops in every few months and then pops out. I notice he also created
List of adventive wild plants in Israel which deals with plants introduced into the area by human activity. He seems to have intimate scholarly knowledge of this subject. I believe he titled this article this way because the scholarship supports this name, just as the scholarship on the article he created would support that name. I think you are overlooking the issue here that Palestine in this case refers to the geographical region which extends beyond the boundaries of British Mandate Palestine, into modern day Jordan, etc. Changing Palestine to Israel in this case would be totally inaccurate. But if you want to go ahead and Afd this, you are free to do so. Cheers.
Tiamuttalk12:31, 22 July 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm in no rush to delete this. We'll wait a while and see if he pops in and can provide more details on his source.
I do know that for the first couple of years of Mandate, Transjordan was administered as part of Palestine, yes. Irrelevant here though.
Tiamuttalk15:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)reply
Also, lets not forget that we have no idea what exact area this article covers since we don't even know what its source is. Actually, if you look at the edit history Gidip specifically says he did not add the East Bank stuff. So "Israel and Palestine" should cover it nicely.
No More Mr Nice Guy (
talk)
10:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)reply
I disagree that a name change is necessary. Gidip doesn't say he not add East Bank stuff. He wrote "missing many species from the east bank, sorry", which means he did add some but is missing some as well. The book he cites Flora Palestina gives a definition of its geographical scope which he includes in the intro. I don't see what the problem is with the current name.
Palestine is used appropriately in this case and substitutes would be wordy and inaccurate.
Tiamuttalk14:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)reply
I've never seen any reference of Golan and Hermon being part of Palestine. Transjordan - perhaps, maybe even parts of Sinai, but never Golan, Mount Lebanon and Mount Hermon ridges.
GreyShark (
dibra)
16:14, 18 September 2016 (UTC)reply