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I don't think "anyone" cares about the marketing cost.. why is it still included in this page. This page is most expensive video games to develop.. not most expensive games to market. IMO the people visiting this page don't care about how much money a game producer spends on posters and tv advertisements.
Can we get some consensus on this?
My previous comment: The biggest issue I see with this article is that it mixes marketing and development cost when Wikipedia readers are most likely to be interested in "just" development cost. A game with an enormous marketing budget is not the primary interest of anyone reading this page (imo). I suggest we work towards re-ordering the list (excluding marketing budget).
(Just a new reader saying the same, marketing is hot air and doesn't shape the game itself in any form. When the market costs outweigh the actual game development costs then you know the game is overhyped and style over substance at best anyway.)
According to this article, Bungie did not actually spend half a billion dollars on developing or advertising Destiny. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-budget-nowhere-near-500-million-bungie-says/1100-6420802/ A website devoted to video games is a lot more credible than two websites with video games on the side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.90.247.53 ( talk) 20:32, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Destiny should not listed as having cost 500 million. It's 500 million for an entire new franchise constisting of several full titles. We're not calculating the cost of the entire GTA (or whatever) franchise and should not do this for destiny as well. Big numbers might be impressive but here they are plain wrong. Link by Bungie: http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/07/01/bungie-says-destiny-cost-nowhere-near-500-million-decade-long-story-planned/
A lot of the money is also to create backend infrastructure for further titles:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/activision-investing-500-million-for-bungie-s-destiny/1100-6419444/
2003:4C:EB17:C691:A98C:D9AD:F81B:3825 (
talk)
16:51, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
I have removed the PROD because, contrary to the PROD statement that "There are no sources cited at all for this, and it does not look like there ever will be," a few sources do exist:
As for the other concerns in the PROD, the lack of contextual information is a WP:SURMOUNTABLE problem, as the article can be expanded to include this. I agree that notability ( WP:GNG) is still a concern, particularly as the three sources I cited seem to be based on the Digital Battle blog. That would be acceptable if multiple WP:RS media outlets all feature significant coverage on a story that originated from a blog post, but in this case, I'm uncertain as to how reliable these sources are (e.g. WP:VG/RS only deems Kotaku posts written after 2010 to be reliable, but doesn't give any specific guidance for posts written in 2010 itself). Regardless, there's just enough hint of potential notability that I don't feel that this concern is sufficient to justify a PROD deletion. -- Mike Agricola ( talk) 20:46, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
It would be nice to also list how much money these games made. 75.30.88.94 ( talk) 21:32, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Presently the Star Citizen listing at 78mil is correct for showing the amount of money raised for development of the game, but isn't representative of actual funds spent on development costs. Some of this may at this point be considered revenue for the studio. 178.18.17.118 ( talk) 13:28, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
i would argue that a good portion of money is being funneled into event planning and staging globally, and making videos such as around the verse and 10 for the "whatever" (which i would class as advertising), this money is obviously not going directly to game development in anyway, so the statement that "all" raised money is going directly to game development is obviously false. so of the $80 and change million raised so far we have no actual idea of how much has been sunk into game development, all we do know is its "less than $80 Million [$80 million minus event fees minus travel for the employees minus the cost producing weekly videos]" — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.200.254.142 (
talk)
09:57, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Already replied below. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 12:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
The source listed for MW2 is: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96227-How-Much-Did-Modern-Warfare-2-Cost-to-Make
That website lists a LA times article as its source for the dollar values: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/18/business/fi-ct-duty18
The LA times article says: "Call of Duty cost $40 million to $50 million to produce, people close to the project said, about as much as a mid-size film. Including marketing expenses and the cost of producing and distributing discs, the launch budget was $200 million,"
This seems to imply that the total cost of the game was $200 million total, rather than 50+200 million that is referenced in the table. Every other article I looked at either did not provide a source, or referenced the same LA times article. Thoughts?
I came here to see how development costs developed over the ages only to see that artificial 50 Mio USD minimum limit. I don't think it makes any sense, as it shuts off two decades of gaming. The name of the page is "list of most expensive video games to develop" not "list of games that cost at least 50 Mio USD to make". Games like Phantasmagoria which cost 6 Mio USD to make and was regarded as being the most expensive game of 1995 are left out of this list for no reason. 217.190.156.153 ( talk) 10:40, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
I think you made a valid point. Especially when there is a table that adjusts for inflation. I will look into this more. Agent of the nine ( talk) 13:30, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
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Someone (IP: 75.156.66.139) is continuously removing this game from the list of most expensive games to develop ( /info/en/?search=List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop), based on these false arguments:
- Game is unfinished (Irrelevant fact to be removed from that list as the list itself doesn't have in mind the current status of a game, the game is currently work-in-progress, and there are also other unfinished/cancelled games on that list that he doesn't care about in the slightest, proof that he's only a SC hater).
- Numbers doesn't represent the amount destined to the development of the game (False: the SC devs have stated many times that the funds in the linked Stretch Goals page goes exclusively to the development of the game (1) (2). Other marketing and event stuff is handled by donations from subscribers (3) ).
(1) https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals , quote: "As a crowd funded project, Star Citizen's scope is based directly on the support provided by our backers. Money pledged goes directly to the game's development."
(2) "10 for the Chairman, Episode 69" YouTube video , (minute 4:45), quote from SC's creator and chairman as of 9, Nov 2015: "We're not doing the typical commercials. We're taking all the money we've raised, and put it into the development of the game".
(3) https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/subscriptions
Even knowing the truth, he keeps removing the game from that list. Thus I ask if that guy can be banned from editing this page any further. Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 10:49, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll do it if he edits it one more time.— Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks again. Reporting right now. EDIT: Report done, but I don't know how to do/send an ANI notice to that guy...— Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 07:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
THE OTHER EDITOR >>> All pledge money might go into the development of the game but this list is for the cost on release. Otherwise a game like World of Warcraft that has been a WIP since 2001 would reach into the billion dollars range, and this list would start to make no sense. SC had a very successful crowdfunding campaign, we would have to assume that SC is currently burning all their raised money. It might or might not be the case, but I don't think people come to Wikipedia to read about other people assumptions, but to read about facts. I really hope SC will be on top of this chart very soon, but I think it's too soon until we get more insight of ... the actual cost of development. <<<— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.66.139 ( talk) 10:10, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Both of you need to sign your posts to avoid confusion. Do this with four tildes ~. Please also avoid changing or refactoring the comments of each other. -- ferret ( talk) 01:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
At this point I just hope you're kidding. You're comparing WoW and it's expansions with a game that hasn't even finished it's base yet, and a game which we don't have any idea how it's expansion system will be? And I guess you know how much an expansion costs to develop, right? Because I bet you think it costs what a full game costs, despite an expansion having already the base engine and setting to work upon, and thus only the content is needed to be added. But of course you had to think that an expansion costs the same as a full game, and thus adding that absurd cost of "billions".
Plus, the "upkeep" cost (servers, maintenance, addons, etc) is not what this page is about, neither what we're talking about: we're talking about the cost of developing the game per-se only, and that means creating the game itself, the server system, and the server usage so far until the game is fully released. The TheRegister page you posted talks (again) about the costs once the game WAS ALREADY released. If you wanted to add WoW to the list, then you'd have to put the cost that it took on reaching it's first version, as Star Citizen is currently all about.
About the money raised vs cost: You want speculations about that? Then here's mine: a Hollywood cast, hiring CryEngine engines plus some of the most talented devs in all areas out there, Google servers, a revolutionary engine that does what nobody has dared to do before, dozens of ships with different unique gameplay and 100 systems' worth of content? I'd even say that it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were even a bit on the short stick in money terms. And now tell me, why YOUR "speculation" is any better than MINE?
Also, yes. I didn't know that "burn rate" meant "money spent so far", sorry for not being neither an english speaker or a Wall Street geek, and also thank you for just not using plain terms to define that equally simple meaning. In any case, that definition doesn't change my statement above.
And as I said, you have neither proof that the other game companies have also spent the quantity that they're reported to the media that they have spent. After all, it wouldn't be the first time that costs are exaggerated in order to gain the attention of the masses. If speculative cynism was the rule, then this page wouldn't exist at all.
Also, avoid patronizing me. With your "SC wastes money" statements, and your obsession over it over other games that are even more worthy of leaving this list, we all already know what you're all about. Also, it's against the rules. - KurtMaverick ( talk) 06:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
I don't care about WoW in the slightest, you can put it there or not as you see fit. But unless the list undergoes a cleanup and all non-completed or cancelled games are removed, SC has as much right of being on it as any other game.
And I don't see why cancelled games should be removed and not remain, if only for historical purposes. My recommendation? Split the list in two in the same page: One list for completed games, another one for WIP/Cancelled ones, then put SC in the 2nd one. Everybody is happy. - KurtMaverick ( talk) 11:53, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Mable, I entirely fail to see how not including a game which is being transparent minute after minute about how many funds have got so far from donations is not related to "improve Wikipedia". That phrase sounds more like cheap demagogy rather than making any sense. And as I said, I STILL don't see by far any similar ruckus about cancelled games that are on the list. How curious. - KurtMaverick ( talk) 18:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
The ranking of 'Star Citizen' appears to be contentious when comparing development funds vs. actual costs, the recent re-ranking of the game title to 30th appears to be related to the cost on a per-title basis. The current criteria for "List of most expensive video games to develop" is based upon individual titles. Inspection of the original Kick Starter shows Star Citizen as Single Player as well as a Persistent universe but this is muddied by the recent package split https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15189-Package-Split-Information and that the 'Squadron 42' mission disk 1 mentioned on the funding goals page https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals is included in the 6 million stretch goal but will need to be purchased by those who purchase after that date https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXpx2C6rFAc per Chris Roberts.
The current situation does not meet the criteria for a single title as there is 'Star Citizen' for the persistent universe, 'Squadron 42: Episode 1' and 'Squadron 42: Episode 2' as separately purchasable titles sharing funding and resources. There is no publicly available information detailing a breakdown of the costs or how much is shared so it is not accurate to list 'Star Citizen' or either of the separate single player titles.
If 'Star Citizen' is considered a 'single title' then we need to review other games for inclusion on the list as any titles that are related and in any way share resources can be considered a 'single title' - this means including DLC. By this new criteria the budget of 'Half-Life 2' should also include 'Episode 1' and 'Episode 2', the budget of the Call of Duty titles becomes difficult to calculate with all the shared code and assets.
At the very least it seems that editors here agree to disagree that 'Star Citizen' meets the same criteria as others and as such there needs to be notes regarding this to ensure readers are properly informed and are not given inaccurate misinformation. EyeBeeM ( talk) 03:53, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
As a Star Citizen backer, I find it misleading that it's here, the link used is the amount funded not the amount current spent on developing it, although the developer said around 20 million that all money will go towards the game, they aren't spending it as quickly as they burn it. On top of that it is unknown what the subscribers put into the marketing. I suggest it gets removed until someone actually releases costings. Rentaspoon ( talk) 13:52, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
Unless someone has a reliable source stating an actual development cost, it doesn't belong on this list. We know they've raised millions. We know they've said they'll use it for the game. We don't know how much of that has actually been spent on the game at this time. The bottom line is "total cost" of the game is unsourced. We also know the game is now split into two projects, and we don't know how the budget is split between them. We definitely cannot assume at this point, over two years after this all started, that all 140+ million has gone directly into the game alone. This also ties into other talk page discussions at Star Citizen itself and List of highest funded crowdfunding projects where the continual updating of Star Citizen without reliable secondary sourcing has been called into question. -- ferret ( talk) 13:41, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
I forgot about all those wonderful "reliable sources" from the "Top 10" websites that this article cites. You're pretty ignorant of that fact it seems. If this is the case, please remove all video games from the list which there is not sourced development cost available. Also, there are countless citations which link to "Top 10" pages" These don't cite any sources and only give "estimates" in this list which need to be rectified. This Wiki page is in poor shape and does not meet Wikipedia standards for sources. If anything, the development cost of Star Citizen is the most transparent of the games in position 5 and bellow. Ziros ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:16, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
COD MW2 apparently the Escapist Website is the only source needed to put that game at the top of the list. - either be consistent or stop editing the page. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
79.66.48.242 (
talk)
03:07, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Again, Ferret removing Star Citizen from list - where a game gets its funding from is irrelevant to the list of "most expensive" games to develop. No other source on this list has anywhere near as much detail as the amount of money spent or devs hired- majority of sources in list are from developers who claim how much was spent - the same as Star Citizens Budget - there are also countless testimonials from devs and critics who consistently claim that CIG is running out of funds before raising more. Average game developer salary is $80,000 x 420 CIG employees working on the game = current cash burn of $33m per year. Company had 6 employees in 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.48.242 ( talk) 03:00, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
It should still be on the list with "still in development" clarification or in a separate table of unfinished games. You can't deny the amount of already collected funds. Gendalv ( talk) 22:14, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Ah, and is there any "sourcing" on any other of the games of the list by any chance, apart from the one that the companies give themselves, or the one that gaming sites publish because they've been feed the numbers of the companies themselves? If you want a totally objective list, then you'd have to open a investigation done by a 3rd-party accountability company on EVERY game and company on the list. Other than that, every data showed there is the same that Star Citizen itself also provides. So yeah, not including it is totally bullshit.
Star Citizen devs claim that the money pledged goes directly to the game's development. That they keep a separate funding model (subscribers) for video content and advertisement, and yet another one for events only proves their point. If you can't believe them, then this list is useless to begin with, as you can't believe any word from any other developer then.
I'm gonna give it some time to see if someone here recovers a bit of common sense, if not I'll edit this page myself once SC reaches 200m and rightfully places itself as the most expensive game ever to develop (currently almost 190m). NoFaithInHumanity ( talk) 20:11, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
So, first of all, how many games on the list doesn't have any "reliable source" (in your particular sense of the definition) to begin with?
Second of all, if "news organizations" are reported to be reliable sources, then hey, no problem at all! We just have to wait till some gaming journalism site (or sites) reports that SC has reached 200m, then post it. There, you've a reliable source. Easy, right? Or not even THAT is enough for you? (hence what I said before about an independent company doing the investigation on the matter, cos frankly it's the only logical next step that it occurs to me).
Third of all: "The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.". OK, and I repeat for the third time, how exactly THAT doesn't get applied to any other game of the list? Or just because those other games aren't crowdfunded does that mean that the numbers that their devs publish (or God's know where they were obtained) are 100% accurate? That's just a complete fallacy.
"SC has never claimed to have a particular budget, nor have any sources reported such."....except that they totally did, and they had news outlets (sources) confirming it so (with now outdated numbers, of course). That you don't wanna see it it's another matter. I don't know why you're asking anything extra of SC in order to be included on the list, and frankly I see that as subjective and abusive behaviour.
And you can threaten to erase anything you want. I highly doubt that you're the top of the line here in the Wikipedia. I could always discuss it with a superior of yours (or rely on democracy) to see if they can see reason and stop allowing you editing the page. If you cannot see that you're simply not right in this matter, then hey, suit yourself. NoFaithInHumanity ( talk) 00:31, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/79.71.68.47 is very obviously User:Renamed_user_nnnnnnnnnn trying to evade his ban, so I'm not sure where to report this. Phantom Hoover ( talk) 16:36, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
Work in progress, gathering some notes for replacing bad sources and updating figures:
Note: Wayback is having trouble, can't get to archives for deadlinks currently.
-- ferret ( talk) 23:03, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Finally got the archive for blog.knowyourmoney.co.uk/index.php/2008/08/10-most-expensive-video-game-budgets-ever to load. I'm almost certain nearly every entry using this needs removed. Half the list says "This is only rumored" or "No exact figure has been found". This is a blog in the end and clearly fails as a reliable source. -- ferret ( talk) 23:48, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Found something on Shenmue [ Sub required]. Here is what it says(the sentence in question).
Sega's forthcoming arcade adventure Shenmue has cost an estimated $20 million to produce and, although it should have no trouble breaking even, not every publisher is prepared to risk such amounts on an untried formula. Timur9008 ( talk) 02:23, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
Regarding TESO, it looks like a quote regarding old financial data degraded over time.
A TESO forum post from 2015 quotes: "ZeniMax announced today that it has recieved a $300 million USD investment from Providence Equity Partners Inc for convertible preferred ZeniMax stock. This cash will be used to fund its newly formed online division (headed up by former Mythic Exec Producer Matt Firor) plus develop and publish future games as well."[ [3]]
Unfortunately, said quote is uncited (and contains spelling errors). Searching found several articles from 2007 in which the first sentence was the same, but the second read: "The proceeds of the investment will be used to fund future growth, increase game development and publishing, facilitate acquisitions, and finance massively multiplayer online games." [ [4]] Dicrostonyx ( talk) 00:17, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
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Majority of sources in this list are from unreliable 3rd parties - whilst sources from the developers themselves are being removed. (likely due to vandalism).
Need to go through all sources and validate. Scottym90 ( talk) 03:38, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
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If this list's name is qualified intentionally(?) with "most expensive to DEVELOP", then shouldn't it be sorted by development costs? I guess I'm not sure what else it could be named but just putting it out there. When I came to this page, I was slightly surprised to see that MW2 was at the top, but upon further observation, it looks like most of that cost was marketing (which I would hardly consider development) and it's development costs were at the threshold to even be on this page. I guess one could argue that it's not the "development" of the game itself (programming, graphics, voice work), but also the development of the product and investment in its success. But as a user (and developer) I was much more interested in the top games by development costs rather than the amount of money a Publisher blew on getting celebrities to sell the game. When sorted by development cost it becomes much more accurate to the title and more interesting (SWOTR - hmm, GTA5 - of course, Destiny - makes sense). Anywho, just my two cents. Sorry if I didn't do this "Talk" correctly (first time).
Zace Talk 07:06, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't have any sources but if we take the soundtrack of Mafia III we can see that they gave a lot of money — Preceding unsigned comment added by Costas theodorou7 ( talk • contribs) 17:08, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I don't think "anyone" cares about the marketing cost.. why is it still included in this page. This page is most expensive video games to develop.. not most expensive games to market. IMO the people visiting this page don't care about how much money a game producer spends on posters and tv advertisements.
Can we get some consensus on this?
My previous comment: The biggest issue I see with this article is that it mixes marketing and development cost when Wikipedia readers are most likely to be interested in "just" development cost. A game with an enormous marketing budget is not the primary interest of anyone reading this page (imo). I suggest we work towards re-ordering the list (excluding marketing budget).
(Just a new reader saying the same, marketing is hot air and doesn't shape the game itself in any form. When the market costs outweigh the actual game development costs then you know the game is overhyped and style over substance at best anyway.)
According to this article, Bungie did not actually spend half a billion dollars on developing or advertising Destiny. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-budget-nowhere-near-500-million-bungie-says/1100-6420802/ A website devoted to video games is a lot more credible than two websites with video games on the side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.90.247.53 ( talk) 20:32, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Destiny should not listed as having cost 500 million. It's 500 million for an entire new franchise constisting of several full titles. We're not calculating the cost of the entire GTA (or whatever) franchise and should not do this for destiny as well. Big numbers might be impressive but here they are plain wrong. Link by Bungie: http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/07/01/bungie-says-destiny-cost-nowhere-near-500-million-decade-long-story-planned/
A lot of the money is also to create backend infrastructure for further titles:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/activision-investing-500-million-for-bungie-s-destiny/1100-6419444/
2003:4C:EB17:C691:A98C:D9AD:F81B:3825 (
talk)
16:51, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
I have removed the PROD because, contrary to the PROD statement that "There are no sources cited at all for this, and it does not look like there ever will be," a few sources do exist:
As for the other concerns in the PROD, the lack of contextual information is a WP:SURMOUNTABLE problem, as the article can be expanded to include this. I agree that notability ( WP:GNG) is still a concern, particularly as the three sources I cited seem to be based on the Digital Battle blog. That would be acceptable if multiple WP:RS media outlets all feature significant coverage on a story that originated from a blog post, but in this case, I'm uncertain as to how reliable these sources are (e.g. WP:VG/RS only deems Kotaku posts written after 2010 to be reliable, but doesn't give any specific guidance for posts written in 2010 itself). Regardless, there's just enough hint of potential notability that I don't feel that this concern is sufficient to justify a PROD deletion. -- Mike Agricola ( talk) 20:46, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
It would be nice to also list how much money these games made. 75.30.88.94 ( talk) 21:32, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Presently the Star Citizen listing at 78mil is correct for showing the amount of money raised for development of the game, but isn't representative of actual funds spent on development costs. Some of this may at this point be considered revenue for the studio. 178.18.17.118 ( talk) 13:28, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
i would argue that a good portion of money is being funneled into event planning and staging globally, and making videos such as around the verse and 10 for the "whatever" (which i would class as advertising), this money is obviously not going directly to game development in anyway, so the statement that "all" raised money is going directly to game development is obviously false. so of the $80 and change million raised so far we have no actual idea of how much has been sunk into game development, all we do know is its "less than $80 Million [$80 million minus event fees minus travel for the employees minus the cost producing weekly videos]" — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.200.254.142 (
talk)
09:57, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Already replied below. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 12:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
The source listed for MW2 is: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96227-How-Much-Did-Modern-Warfare-2-Cost-to-Make
That website lists a LA times article as its source for the dollar values: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/18/business/fi-ct-duty18
The LA times article says: "Call of Duty cost $40 million to $50 million to produce, people close to the project said, about as much as a mid-size film. Including marketing expenses and the cost of producing and distributing discs, the launch budget was $200 million,"
This seems to imply that the total cost of the game was $200 million total, rather than 50+200 million that is referenced in the table. Every other article I looked at either did not provide a source, or referenced the same LA times article. Thoughts?
I came here to see how development costs developed over the ages only to see that artificial 50 Mio USD minimum limit. I don't think it makes any sense, as it shuts off two decades of gaming. The name of the page is "list of most expensive video games to develop" not "list of games that cost at least 50 Mio USD to make". Games like Phantasmagoria which cost 6 Mio USD to make and was regarded as being the most expensive game of 1995 are left out of this list for no reason. 217.190.156.153 ( talk) 10:40, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
I think you made a valid point. Especially when there is a table that adjusts for inflation. I will look into this more. Agent of the nine ( talk) 13:30, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
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Someone (IP: 75.156.66.139) is continuously removing this game from the list of most expensive games to develop ( /info/en/?search=List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop), based on these false arguments:
- Game is unfinished (Irrelevant fact to be removed from that list as the list itself doesn't have in mind the current status of a game, the game is currently work-in-progress, and there are also other unfinished/cancelled games on that list that he doesn't care about in the slightest, proof that he's only a SC hater).
- Numbers doesn't represent the amount destined to the development of the game (False: the SC devs have stated many times that the funds in the linked Stretch Goals page goes exclusively to the development of the game (1) (2). Other marketing and event stuff is handled by donations from subscribers (3) ).
(1) https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals , quote: "As a crowd funded project, Star Citizen's scope is based directly on the support provided by our backers. Money pledged goes directly to the game's development."
(2) "10 for the Chairman, Episode 69" YouTube video , (minute 4:45), quote from SC's creator and chairman as of 9, Nov 2015: "We're not doing the typical commercials. We're taking all the money we've raised, and put it into the development of the game".
(3) https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/subscriptions
Even knowing the truth, he keeps removing the game from that list. Thus I ask if that guy can be banned from editing this page any further. Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 10:49, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll do it if he edits it one more time.— Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks again. Reporting right now. EDIT: Report done, but I don't know how to do/send an ANI notice to that guy...— Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick ( talk • contribs) 07:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
THE OTHER EDITOR >>> All pledge money might go into the development of the game but this list is for the cost on release. Otherwise a game like World of Warcraft that has been a WIP since 2001 would reach into the billion dollars range, and this list would start to make no sense. SC had a very successful crowdfunding campaign, we would have to assume that SC is currently burning all their raised money. It might or might not be the case, but I don't think people come to Wikipedia to read about other people assumptions, but to read about facts. I really hope SC will be on top of this chart very soon, but I think it's too soon until we get more insight of ... the actual cost of development. <<<— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.66.139 ( talk) 10:10, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Both of you need to sign your posts to avoid confusion. Do this with four tildes ~. Please also avoid changing or refactoring the comments of each other. -- ferret ( talk) 01:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
At this point I just hope you're kidding. You're comparing WoW and it's expansions with a game that hasn't even finished it's base yet, and a game which we don't have any idea how it's expansion system will be? And I guess you know how much an expansion costs to develop, right? Because I bet you think it costs what a full game costs, despite an expansion having already the base engine and setting to work upon, and thus only the content is needed to be added. But of course you had to think that an expansion costs the same as a full game, and thus adding that absurd cost of "billions".
Plus, the "upkeep" cost (servers, maintenance, addons, etc) is not what this page is about, neither what we're talking about: we're talking about the cost of developing the game per-se only, and that means creating the game itself, the server system, and the server usage so far until the game is fully released. The TheRegister page you posted talks (again) about the costs once the game WAS ALREADY released. If you wanted to add WoW to the list, then you'd have to put the cost that it took on reaching it's first version, as Star Citizen is currently all about.
About the money raised vs cost: You want speculations about that? Then here's mine: a Hollywood cast, hiring CryEngine engines plus some of the most talented devs in all areas out there, Google servers, a revolutionary engine that does what nobody has dared to do before, dozens of ships with different unique gameplay and 100 systems' worth of content? I'd even say that it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were even a bit on the short stick in money terms. And now tell me, why YOUR "speculation" is any better than MINE?
Also, yes. I didn't know that "burn rate" meant "money spent so far", sorry for not being neither an english speaker or a Wall Street geek, and also thank you for just not using plain terms to define that equally simple meaning. In any case, that definition doesn't change my statement above.
And as I said, you have neither proof that the other game companies have also spent the quantity that they're reported to the media that they have spent. After all, it wouldn't be the first time that costs are exaggerated in order to gain the attention of the masses. If speculative cynism was the rule, then this page wouldn't exist at all.
Also, avoid patronizing me. With your "SC wastes money" statements, and your obsession over it over other games that are even more worthy of leaving this list, we all already know what you're all about. Also, it's against the rules. - KurtMaverick ( talk) 06:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
I don't care about WoW in the slightest, you can put it there or not as you see fit. But unless the list undergoes a cleanup and all non-completed or cancelled games are removed, SC has as much right of being on it as any other game.
And I don't see why cancelled games should be removed and not remain, if only for historical purposes. My recommendation? Split the list in two in the same page: One list for completed games, another one for WIP/Cancelled ones, then put SC in the 2nd one. Everybody is happy. - KurtMaverick ( talk) 11:53, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Mable, I entirely fail to see how not including a game which is being transparent minute after minute about how many funds have got so far from donations is not related to "improve Wikipedia". That phrase sounds more like cheap demagogy rather than making any sense. And as I said, I STILL don't see by far any similar ruckus about cancelled games that are on the list. How curious. - KurtMaverick ( talk) 18:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
The ranking of 'Star Citizen' appears to be contentious when comparing development funds vs. actual costs, the recent re-ranking of the game title to 30th appears to be related to the cost on a per-title basis. The current criteria for "List of most expensive video games to develop" is based upon individual titles. Inspection of the original Kick Starter shows Star Citizen as Single Player as well as a Persistent universe but this is muddied by the recent package split https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15189-Package-Split-Information and that the 'Squadron 42' mission disk 1 mentioned on the funding goals page https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals is included in the 6 million stretch goal but will need to be purchased by those who purchase after that date https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXpx2C6rFAc per Chris Roberts.
The current situation does not meet the criteria for a single title as there is 'Star Citizen' for the persistent universe, 'Squadron 42: Episode 1' and 'Squadron 42: Episode 2' as separately purchasable titles sharing funding and resources. There is no publicly available information detailing a breakdown of the costs or how much is shared so it is not accurate to list 'Star Citizen' or either of the separate single player titles.
If 'Star Citizen' is considered a 'single title' then we need to review other games for inclusion on the list as any titles that are related and in any way share resources can be considered a 'single title' - this means including DLC. By this new criteria the budget of 'Half-Life 2' should also include 'Episode 1' and 'Episode 2', the budget of the Call of Duty titles becomes difficult to calculate with all the shared code and assets.
At the very least it seems that editors here agree to disagree that 'Star Citizen' meets the same criteria as others and as such there needs to be notes regarding this to ensure readers are properly informed and are not given inaccurate misinformation. EyeBeeM ( talk) 03:53, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
As a Star Citizen backer, I find it misleading that it's here, the link used is the amount funded not the amount current spent on developing it, although the developer said around 20 million that all money will go towards the game, they aren't spending it as quickly as they burn it. On top of that it is unknown what the subscribers put into the marketing. I suggest it gets removed until someone actually releases costings. Rentaspoon ( talk) 13:52, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
Unless someone has a reliable source stating an actual development cost, it doesn't belong on this list. We know they've raised millions. We know they've said they'll use it for the game. We don't know how much of that has actually been spent on the game at this time. The bottom line is "total cost" of the game is unsourced. We also know the game is now split into two projects, and we don't know how the budget is split between them. We definitely cannot assume at this point, over two years after this all started, that all 140+ million has gone directly into the game alone. This also ties into other talk page discussions at Star Citizen itself and List of highest funded crowdfunding projects where the continual updating of Star Citizen without reliable secondary sourcing has been called into question. -- ferret ( talk) 13:41, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
I forgot about all those wonderful "reliable sources" from the "Top 10" websites that this article cites. You're pretty ignorant of that fact it seems. If this is the case, please remove all video games from the list which there is not sourced development cost available. Also, there are countless citations which link to "Top 10" pages" These don't cite any sources and only give "estimates" in this list which need to be rectified. This Wiki page is in poor shape and does not meet Wikipedia standards for sources. If anything, the development cost of Star Citizen is the most transparent of the games in position 5 and bellow. Ziros ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:16, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
COD MW2 apparently the Escapist Website is the only source needed to put that game at the top of the list. - either be consistent or stop editing the page. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
79.66.48.242 (
talk)
03:07, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Again, Ferret removing Star Citizen from list - where a game gets its funding from is irrelevant to the list of "most expensive" games to develop. No other source on this list has anywhere near as much detail as the amount of money spent or devs hired- majority of sources in list are from developers who claim how much was spent - the same as Star Citizens Budget - there are also countless testimonials from devs and critics who consistently claim that CIG is running out of funds before raising more. Average game developer salary is $80,000 x 420 CIG employees working on the game = current cash burn of $33m per year. Company had 6 employees in 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.48.242 ( talk) 03:00, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
It should still be on the list with "still in development" clarification or in a separate table of unfinished games. You can't deny the amount of already collected funds. Gendalv ( talk) 22:14, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Ah, and is there any "sourcing" on any other of the games of the list by any chance, apart from the one that the companies give themselves, or the one that gaming sites publish because they've been feed the numbers of the companies themselves? If you want a totally objective list, then you'd have to open a investigation done by a 3rd-party accountability company on EVERY game and company on the list. Other than that, every data showed there is the same that Star Citizen itself also provides. So yeah, not including it is totally bullshit.
Star Citizen devs claim that the money pledged goes directly to the game's development. That they keep a separate funding model (subscribers) for video content and advertisement, and yet another one for events only proves their point. If you can't believe them, then this list is useless to begin with, as you can't believe any word from any other developer then.
I'm gonna give it some time to see if someone here recovers a bit of common sense, if not I'll edit this page myself once SC reaches 200m and rightfully places itself as the most expensive game ever to develop (currently almost 190m). NoFaithInHumanity ( talk) 20:11, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
So, first of all, how many games on the list doesn't have any "reliable source" (in your particular sense of the definition) to begin with?
Second of all, if "news organizations" are reported to be reliable sources, then hey, no problem at all! We just have to wait till some gaming journalism site (or sites) reports that SC has reached 200m, then post it. There, you've a reliable source. Easy, right? Or not even THAT is enough for you? (hence what I said before about an independent company doing the investigation on the matter, cos frankly it's the only logical next step that it occurs to me).
Third of all: "The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.". OK, and I repeat for the third time, how exactly THAT doesn't get applied to any other game of the list? Or just because those other games aren't crowdfunded does that mean that the numbers that their devs publish (or God's know where they were obtained) are 100% accurate? That's just a complete fallacy.
"SC has never claimed to have a particular budget, nor have any sources reported such."....except that they totally did, and they had news outlets (sources) confirming it so (with now outdated numbers, of course). That you don't wanna see it it's another matter. I don't know why you're asking anything extra of SC in order to be included on the list, and frankly I see that as subjective and abusive behaviour.
And you can threaten to erase anything you want. I highly doubt that you're the top of the line here in the Wikipedia. I could always discuss it with a superior of yours (or rely on democracy) to see if they can see reason and stop allowing you editing the page. If you cannot see that you're simply not right in this matter, then hey, suit yourself. NoFaithInHumanity ( talk) 00:31, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/79.71.68.47 is very obviously User:Renamed_user_nnnnnnnnnn trying to evade his ban, so I'm not sure where to report this. Phantom Hoover ( talk) 16:36, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
Work in progress, gathering some notes for replacing bad sources and updating figures:
Note: Wayback is having trouble, can't get to archives for deadlinks currently.
-- ferret ( talk) 23:03, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Finally got the archive for blog.knowyourmoney.co.uk/index.php/2008/08/10-most-expensive-video-game-budgets-ever to load. I'm almost certain nearly every entry using this needs removed. Half the list says "This is only rumored" or "No exact figure has been found". This is a blog in the end and clearly fails as a reliable source. -- ferret ( talk) 23:48, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Found something on Shenmue [ Sub required]. Here is what it says(the sentence in question).
Sega's forthcoming arcade adventure Shenmue has cost an estimated $20 million to produce and, although it should have no trouble breaking even, not every publisher is prepared to risk such amounts on an untried formula. Timur9008 ( talk) 02:23, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
Regarding TESO, it looks like a quote regarding old financial data degraded over time.
A TESO forum post from 2015 quotes: "ZeniMax announced today that it has recieved a $300 million USD investment from Providence Equity Partners Inc for convertible preferred ZeniMax stock. This cash will be used to fund its newly formed online division (headed up by former Mythic Exec Producer Matt Firor) plus develop and publish future games as well."[ [3]]
Unfortunately, said quote is uncited (and contains spelling errors). Searching found several articles from 2007 in which the first sentence was the same, but the second read: "The proceeds of the investment will be used to fund future growth, increase game development and publishing, facilitate acquisitions, and finance massively multiplayer online games." [ [4]] Dicrostonyx ( talk) 00:17, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
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Majority of sources in this list are from unreliable 3rd parties - whilst sources from the developers themselves are being removed. (likely due to vandalism).
Need to go through all sources and validate. Scottym90 ( talk) 03:38, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
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If this list's name is qualified intentionally(?) with "most expensive to DEVELOP", then shouldn't it be sorted by development costs? I guess I'm not sure what else it could be named but just putting it out there. When I came to this page, I was slightly surprised to see that MW2 was at the top, but upon further observation, it looks like most of that cost was marketing (which I would hardly consider development) and it's development costs were at the threshold to even be on this page. I guess one could argue that it's not the "development" of the game itself (programming, graphics, voice work), but also the development of the product and investment in its success. But as a user (and developer) I was much more interested in the top games by development costs rather than the amount of money a Publisher blew on getting celebrities to sell the game. When sorted by development cost it becomes much more accurate to the title and more interesting (SWOTR - hmm, GTA5 - of course, Destiny - makes sense). Anywho, just my two cents. Sorry if I didn't do this "Talk" correctly (first time).
Zace Talk 07:06, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't have any sources but if we take the soundtrack of Mafia III we can see that they gave a lot of money — Preceding unsigned comment added by Costas theodorou7 ( talk • contribs) 17:08, 3 December 2017 (UTC)