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"The character '7' was used as the ampersand '&' in contemporary Anglo-Saxon writings. The era pre-dates the emergence of forms of writing accepted today, notably minuscule, and the letters 'W' and 'U'. Where W was followed by U this was generally rendered as 'VV' (which was also used for 'W' alone)."
Just wished to note that we still use the above charecter for the word "agus" (and) in Irish. Since early Irish monks spread the Christian faith among the Anglo-Saxons, could this be where that character came from? Fergananim 5th August 2005.
The symbol for `and' which looks like the numeral 7 is of Roman origin, from a shorthand script called Notae Tironianae or `Tironian Notes'. Irish Gaelic is the only modern language to use this or indeed any other Tironian character, apart from the `z' in the abbreviation `viz'. Irish missionaries taught the Old English to use their national variation of the Roman alphabet instead of runic, hence its use in Anglo-Saxon texts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barney Bruchstein ( talk • contribs) 18:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm changing the shade of blue of the St. Albans cross from the blue of the flag of Scotland to a more accurate one. Cdh1984 11:22, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Apologies for using rollback on good faith edits by User:Java13690, no implication intended, just hit the wrong button. However, I did mean to revert. The article was and is right to say that eth and thorn are not distinguishable in A-S contexts: "The word 'that' was written as þæt or ðæt...þ and ð were used interchangeably for th in 'that' or 'thin'" (Mitchell, Intro to Old English, §1). And why stop at eth and thorn: where is wynn (ƿ) and the ʒ-like g? Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
In Buckingham Palace there is a (presumably) 18th century painting by "B. West, Historical Painter to His Majesty", entitled Alfred III, King of Mercia. Who is this? I can't work it out from the lists on the article page. David Lauder 08:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there a reference for Beornred's death? It does not match what Miller says on Anglo-Saxons.net, or the Chronicle of Melrose, or Symeon's Gesta Regum. They all appear to state that the "tyrant" who burned Catterick in 769 and died the same year was one Earnred. Angus McLellan (Talk) 16:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
The six earliest kings, plus Ceolwald, have almost no information about them. I suggest we merge them to here and add a preface discussing the sources, such as the Anglian collection, that mention them. Mike Christie (talk) 02:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking to drum up some interest/support for setting up Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Mercia, which I hope would be of interest to editors involved in this topic. Metabaronic ( talk) 20:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be pointed out that Woden is a mythical figure, as probably are a few more on this tree? 78.146.168.192 ( talk) 23:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Both this article and Earl of Mercia cover the same ground, but this one is a much more developed article. That one now has two earldormen before Leofric; it did just have one until yesterday. Earl of Mercia is presented as if this were a peerage, but it was like a governership that latterly had become hereditary. It is true that an earldorman was not a monarch, but that cannot be helped and should perhasp be dealt with by adding further headings in this article. Peterkingiron ( talk) 09:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
My recent addition of a Legenday King list of the six names pictured but not featured in the text of this article has been removed. The reason given was that the six names are "not listed in legend as Kings". I would like it replaced because, if not in myth, they are listed as Kings in genealogy, such as in the Genealogy of the Kings of Mercia. If it doesn't get replaced, a List of legendary monarchs of Mercia page may need to be created to accommodate this information, which seems superfluous. Paul Bedson ❉ talk❉ 02:04, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
I suggest we split this article into Genealogy of the Iclingas and Ancestry of the kings of Mercia. Merging the latter from Genealogy of the Kings of Mercia (which can be REDIRECTed to "Ancestry") and splitting off half of it into Vespasian B Vi at the same time. This ties in nicely with the precedent set at Ancestry of the kings of Wessex. Any questions or other ideas? Paul Bedson ❉ talk❉ 20:22, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Creoda is not called a king in the ASC, it was Henry of Huntingdon who called him a king and Professor of Medieval History Nicholas Brooks wrote "Despite Professor Davies's tentative advocacy of the historicity of this material, it cannot be said that it is yet clear that what lies behind these scattered entries in the works of Henry of Huntingdon, Roger of Wendover and Matthew Paris is anything more important than some inventive conjectures by an English monk, perhaps as late as the early twelfth century, on the basis of the names available in Bede, the Mercian royal genealogy and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. On such an interpretation it would not be surprising that they should more or less fit the fragments of information that we have on the early history of Mercia; for the compiler of these entries may have had access to the same sources as arc available to us." This sentiment is shared by another professor of medieval history, Barbara Yorke, who wrote " Although it is possible that some kind of regnal list could be the source of the information (though the Worcester lists begin with Penda), these entries could be nothing more than intelligent guesswork based on names derived from Bede and the genealogy of jEthelred, while the dates seem to be influenced by an entry in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle for the death of a West Saxon Creoda.17 The post- Conquest annals' date of 610 (or earlier) for the accession of Penda seems too early. The surviving sources allow us to say with confidence little more than that the kingdom of Mercia was in existence by the end of the sixth century." But this article seems to assert with confidence the names of 6th century Mercian kings. Dougweller ( talk) 20:47, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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"The character '7' was used as the ampersand '&' in contemporary Anglo-Saxon writings. The era pre-dates the emergence of forms of writing accepted today, notably minuscule, and the letters 'W' and 'U'. Where W was followed by U this was generally rendered as 'VV' (which was also used for 'W' alone)."
Just wished to note that we still use the above charecter for the word "agus" (and) in Irish. Since early Irish monks spread the Christian faith among the Anglo-Saxons, could this be where that character came from? Fergananim 5th August 2005.
The symbol for `and' which looks like the numeral 7 is of Roman origin, from a shorthand script called Notae Tironianae or `Tironian Notes'. Irish Gaelic is the only modern language to use this or indeed any other Tironian character, apart from the `z' in the abbreviation `viz'. Irish missionaries taught the Old English to use their national variation of the Roman alphabet instead of runic, hence its use in Anglo-Saxon texts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barney Bruchstein ( talk • contribs) 18:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm changing the shade of blue of the St. Albans cross from the blue of the flag of Scotland to a more accurate one. Cdh1984 11:22, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Apologies for using rollback on good faith edits by User:Java13690, no implication intended, just hit the wrong button. However, I did mean to revert. The article was and is right to say that eth and thorn are not distinguishable in A-S contexts: "The word 'that' was written as þæt or ðæt...þ and ð were used interchangeably for th in 'that' or 'thin'" (Mitchell, Intro to Old English, §1). And why stop at eth and thorn: where is wynn (ƿ) and the ʒ-like g? Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
In Buckingham Palace there is a (presumably) 18th century painting by "B. West, Historical Painter to His Majesty", entitled Alfred III, King of Mercia. Who is this? I can't work it out from the lists on the article page. David Lauder 08:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there a reference for Beornred's death? It does not match what Miller says on Anglo-Saxons.net, or the Chronicle of Melrose, or Symeon's Gesta Regum. They all appear to state that the "tyrant" who burned Catterick in 769 and died the same year was one Earnred. Angus McLellan (Talk) 16:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
The six earliest kings, plus Ceolwald, have almost no information about them. I suggest we merge them to here and add a preface discussing the sources, such as the Anglian collection, that mention them. Mike Christie (talk) 02:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking to drum up some interest/support for setting up Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Mercia, which I hope would be of interest to editors involved in this topic. Metabaronic ( talk) 20:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be pointed out that Woden is a mythical figure, as probably are a few more on this tree? 78.146.168.192 ( talk) 23:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Both this article and Earl of Mercia cover the same ground, but this one is a much more developed article. That one now has two earldormen before Leofric; it did just have one until yesterday. Earl of Mercia is presented as if this were a peerage, but it was like a governership that latterly had become hereditary. It is true that an earldorman was not a monarch, but that cannot be helped and should perhasp be dealt with by adding further headings in this article. Peterkingiron ( talk) 09:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
My recent addition of a Legenday King list of the six names pictured but not featured in the text of this article has been removed. The reason given was that the six names are "not listed in legend as Kings". I would like it replaced because, if not in myth, they are listed as Kings in genealogy, such as in the Genealogy of the Kings of Mercia. If it doesn't get replaced, a List of legendary monarchs of Mercia page may need to be created to accommodate this information, which seems superfluous. Paul Bedson ❉ talk❉ 02:04, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
I suggest we split this article into Genealogy of the Iclingas and Ancestry of the kings of Mercia. Merging the latter from Genealogy of the Kings of Mercia (which can be REDIRECTed to "Ancestry") and splitting off half of it into Vespasian B Vi at the same time. This ties in nicely with the precedent set at Ancestry of the kings of Wessex. Any questions or other ideas? Paul Bedson ❉ talk❉ 20:22, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Creoda is not called a king in the ASC, it was Henry of Huntingdon who called him a king and Professor of Medieval History Nicholas Brooks wrote "Despite Professor Davies's tentative advocacy of the historicity of this material, it cannot be said that it is yet clear that what lies behind these scattered entries in the works of Henry of Huntingdon, Roger of Wendover and Matthew Paris is anything more important than some inventive conjectures by an English monk, perhaps as late as the early twelfth century, on the basis of the names available in Bede, the Mercian royal genealogy and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. On such an interpretation it would not be surprising that they should more or less fit the fragments of information that we have on the early history of Mercia; for the compiler of these entries may have had access to the same sources as arc available to us." This sentiment is shared by another professor of medieval history, Barbara Yorke, who wrote " Although it is possible that some kind of regnal list could be the source of the information (though the Worcester lists begin with Penda), these entries could be nothing more than intelligent guesswork based on names derived from Bede and the genealogy of jEthelred, while the dates seem to be influenced by an entry in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle for the death of a West Saxon Creoda.17 The post- Conquest annals' date of 610 (or earlier) for the accession of Penda seems too early. The surviving sources allow us to say with confidence little more than that the kingdom of Mercia was in existence by the end of the sixth century." But this article seems to assert with confidence the names of 6th century Mercian kings. Dougweller ( talk) 20:47, 21 November 2012 (UTC)