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Is there any reason I should not add this water buffalo into the article?
Or is this list not supposed to include domestic and feral animals? If so maybe the word "wild" should be inserted in the first sentence which currently reads "This is a list of the mammal species recorded in Turkey." Chidgk1 ( talk) 07:51, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
If so the word "occurring" in the first sentence needs to be changed and a decision needs to be made how far back in time to go. If not why is "EX" in the table? And what about mammals which are extinct in Turkey but not elsewhere? Chidgk1 ( talk) 15:01, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
By the 13th century, the aurochs' range was restricted to Poland, Lithuania, Moldova, Transylvania and East Prussia. BTW: Ddum5347 has been blocked indefinitely. -- BhagyaMani ( talk) 09:04, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
The current IUCN RL shows 150 extant mammals in Turkey + 7 with presence uncertain. So quite a few more than announced in the lead of this page. This lead was written perhaps 20 years ago without being updated? -- BhagyaMani ( talk) 07:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
I think a good cut off point for extirpated mammals would be anytime in the last 150 years (i.e. after 1850 or so). This would make them relatively recent extinctions, so that things like aurochs and cave lions are counted, for instance. Thoughts? Ddum5347 ( talk) 19:04, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of mammals of Turkey's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "bbc":
Reference named "Nader_al1989":
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help)I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:11, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
I am not an expert but Persian fallow deer and
https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/6232/97672550#geographic-range
say extinct in Turkey. Chidgk1 ( talk) 10:18, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
References
https://www.cnnturk.com/yasam/turkiyede-nesli-tukenmekte-olan-hayvanlar claimed they were here in 2018
but https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989420302456 said none in 2019.
So is CNN Turk an unreliable source or were they extirpated between the dates of the 2 sources?
Chidgk1 ( talk) 12:47, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
In the lead of each and every country list of mammals, the IUCN Red List is unmistakably introduced as reference for the status of species in the respective country. At present, neither moose nor cheetah are listed as having occurred and been extirpated in Turkey. [1] [2] I therefore removed both from this country list. If anybody is of the opinion that the IUCN Red List assessors made a mistake, then this encyclopedia is not the place to doubt or override their assessments. -- BhagyaMani ( talk) 15:42, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
-- This is the right place to do so, considering the fact that the sources that contradict the IUCN's statements are reliable; they are not good faith edits. Ddum5347 ( talk) 15:55, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Kryštufek & Vohralík (2001) about insectivores in Turkey and Cyprus indeed stated that "During the 19th century, Turkey evidently lost at least four mammals: the cheetah Acinony jubatus .. (Harper, 1945)"
on page 31.
[3] The source referenced by these authors -- Harper, 1945 Extinct and vanishing mammals of the Old World -- did however NOT list Turkey as a historic cheetah range country : see
https://archive.org/details/extinctvanishing00harprich/page/284/mode/2up and previous pages in this book. --
BhagyaMani (
talk)
19:51, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
References
The source for the cheetah being present in Turkey is not an IUCN assessment, but it is still a WP:RS, and similar to the sources used for the cheetah and other large predators in the "list of mammals of" pages for the Caucasus nations. I think @ BhagyaMani: should be consistent; either remove all non-IUCN sources from these lists, or allow them. Monserrrr ( talk) 04:27, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
Not quite sure why extinct mammals seem to create more arguments on this article than live ones, but as we are all trying to do our best for the animals if anyone is annoyed by another person's edit feel free to ask me for a (non-expert) third opinion if you think that might help take the heat away. If I am slow to reply I can say it was a deliberate calming measure - ha ha. Or I could just say the answer is to rewild and see if I can stir up rewilding arguments instead of editing arguments. Chidgk1 ( talk) 14:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Should we include coypu? As usual foreigners are blamed - apparently they migrated from Bulgaria https://www.aksam.com.tr/gunes/anavatani-guney-amerika-edirnede-su-maymunu-istilasi/haber-1223636 Chidgk1 ( talk) 16:57, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of mammals of Turkey article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Is there any reason I should not add this water buffalo into the article?
Or is this list not supposed to include domestic and feral animals? If so maybe the word "wild" should be inserted in the first sentence which currently reads "This is a list of the mammal species recorded in Turkey." Chidgk1 ( talk) 07:51, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
If so the word "occurring" in the first sentence needs to be changed and a decision needs to be made how far back in time to go. If not why is "EX" in the table? And what about mammals which are extinct in Turkey but not elsewhere? Chidgk1 ( talk) 15:01, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
By the 13th century, the aurochs' range was restricted to Poland, Lithuania, Moldova, Transylvania and East Prussia. BTW: Ddum5347 has been blocked indefinitely. -- BhagyaMani ( talk) 09:04, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
The current IUCN RL shows 150 extant mammals in Turkey + 7 with presence uncertain. So quite a few more than announced in the lead of this page. This lead was written perhaps 20 years ago without being updated? -- BhagyaMani ( talk) 07:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
I think a good cut off point for extirpated mammals would be anytime in the last 150 years (i.e. after 1850 or so). This would make them relatively recent extinctions, so that things like aurochs and cave lions are counted, for instance. Thoughts? Ddum5347 ( talk) 19:04, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of mammals of Turkey's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "bbc":
Reference named "Nader_al1989":
{{
cite book}}
: |work=
ignored (
help); External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link){{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)Reference named "Geptner1972":
{{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help); Unknown parameter |last-author-amp=
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suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
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suggested) (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link){{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help){{
cite book}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:11, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
I am not an expert but Persian fallow deer and
https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/6232/97672550#geographic-range
say extinct in Turkey. Chidgk1 ( talk) 10:18, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
References
https://www.cnnturk.com/yasam/turkiyede-nesli-tukenmekte-olan-hayvanlar claimed they were here in 2018
but https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989420302456 said none in 2019.
So is CNN Turk an unreliable source or were they extirpated between the dates of the 2 sources?
Chidgk1 ( talk) 12:47, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
In the lead of each and every country list of mammals, the IUCN Red List is unmistakably introduced as reference for the status of species in the respective country. At present, neither moose nor cheetah are listed as having occurred and been extirpated in Turkey. [1] [2] I therefore removed both from this country list. If anybody is of the opinion that the IUCN Red List assessors made a mistake, then this encyclopedia is not the place to doubt or override their assessments. -- BhagyaMani ( talk) 15:42, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
-- This is the right place to do so, considering the fact that the sources that contradict the IUCN's statements are reliable; they are not good faith edits. Ddum5347 ( talk) 15:55, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Kryštufek & Vohralík (2001) about insectivores in Turkey and Cyprus indeed stated that "During the 19th century, Turkey evidently lost at least four mammals: the cheetah Acinony jubatus .. (Harper, 1945)"
on page 31.
[3] The source referenced by these authors -- Harper, 1945 Extinct and vanishing mammals of the Old World -- did however NOT list Turkey as a historic cheetah range country : see
https://archive.org/details/extinctvanishing00harprich/page/284/mode/2up and previous pages in this book. --
BhagyaMani (
talk)
19:51, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
References
The source for the cheetah being present in Turkey is not an IUCN assessment, but it is still a WP:RS, and similar to the sources used for the cheetah and other large predators in the "list of mammals of" pages for the Caucasus nations. I think @ BhagyaMani: should be consistent; either remove all non-IUCN sources from these lists, or allow them. Monserrrr ( talk) 04:27, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
Not quite sure why extinct mammals seem to create more arguments on this article than live ones, but as we are all trying to do our best for the animals if anyone is annoyed by another person's edit feel free to ask me for a (non-expert) third opinion if you think that might help take the heat away. If I am slow to reply I can say it was a deliberate calming measure - ha ha. Or I could just say the answer is to rewild and see if I can stir up rewilding arguments instead of editing arguments. Chidgk1 ( talk) 14:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Should we include coypu? As usual foreigners are blamed - apparently they migrated from Bulgaria https://www.aksam.com.tr/gunes/anavatani-guney-amerika-edirnede-su-maymunu-istilasi/haber-1223636 Chidgk1 ( talk) 16:57, 3 December 2021 (UTC)