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I would like for a moderator to officially clarify that "largest" goes beyond mere gross tonnage, as largest is defined as "of considerable or relatively great size, extent, or capacity." Length is therefore a factor in determining the largest cruise ships, and to omit such a factor would make Wikipedia a less accurate source to the millions of teachers, students, and populace that rely on it everyday to be as accurate as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.28.18.138 ( talk) 16:45, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Just to get this out of the way, because the failure to recognise this is going to make further discussion very difficult: You are attempting to change the criterion of this article by adding the line "with ties being won by the longer ship". The current criterion is not "largeness" (in all its possible interpretations), but specifically gross tonnage. This is because, in lists on Wikipedia, the list criterion is not dictated by the article title but determined by the body of the article, specifically the lead section (which explains that "ships are ranked by gross tonnage"). This is described by Wikipedia's guideline
WP:LISTNAME, which states that the detailed criteria for inclusion should be described in the lead
. The title of the article, on the other hand, is meant to only briefly outline the content, and is not expected to contain a complete description of the list's subject
(see
WP:LISTNAME as well). This is why the article is called "
List of largest cruise ships", not "
List of largest cruise ships larger than 120,000 GT ranked by gross tonnage and divided into ships in service and ships under construction", and this is also why "
List of largest container ships", for example, is not "
List of largest container ships larger than 140,000 TEU ranked according to twenty-foot equivalent unit capacity and divided into completed ships and ships on order".
Now, this does not preclude you from proposing changes to the criterion, and you can implement it if you are able to obtain community consensus that the new criteria is a better way of constructing the article, but we need to recognise what is the current criterion first before proposing a change to it, and I feel misunderstanding what the current criterion is may be at least part of the reason why you feel I am the one "changing" the criterion. Once again, if you feel there is a need to change the criterion, you are certainly free to propose it; if, on the other hand, you feel that it is the title that needs to be changed, you are also free to propose it; the discussion will follow accordingly. I hope this explanation helps. — Madrenergic talk 16:24, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
In my opinios it would be the best to delete the last edits comltetely. This isn't an article about Cruise ships generally, we have the article Cruise ship. Now the arcticle seem to be a big chaos. Companies, propulsion and a lot more have nothing to do with it's size. HenSti ( talk) 11:12, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
When this list was first started, there were only 37 ships larger than 100,000GT, and 8 under construction. Now, however, there are almost double that number in service (71 ships) and almost 50 more that are planned. These days, ships under 100,000GT are the exception, rather than the rule. Therefore, I am proposing that, in order to make this list more meaningful and to differentiate it from List of cruise ships, that we increase the threshold to 120,000GT. If you graph all the current ship sizes, there seems to be a breakpoint between 116,000 and 121,000, so 120,000 seems like a logical place (looking at future ships, it seems like in a few years the logical breakpoint would be 165,000). This will trim the list to 44 ships right now, and it will be 50 ships by the end year.
Comments? --
Ahecht (
TALK
PAGE)
16:12, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
The list has been expanding nicely over the last few years, and we're currently sitting pretty at 61 entries (rank 59 is shared by three ships). However, with the large number of large cruise ships that were launched in recent years, I think the list has gradually bloated beyond its earlier size. In addition, it will continue to grow - the 'On order' section has 38 more entries that will only add to the main list as time wears on and these ships enter service. To keep it at a relevant and comfortable size, we should probably continue to maintain the 'In service' list at roughly 50 entries, and periodically trim it by raising the GT threshold and removing the entries of smaller ships that don't meet the raised threshold.
Currently the threshold is 120,000 GT, but given that the list is about the largest cruise ships, I doubt most readers of this type of list will be looking for or interested in the ships rated at between 120,000 to 130,000 GT, seeing as they are considered fairly mid-sized in the industry. The remaining ships larger than 130,000 GT would provide more than sufficient context for readers to compare the truly large ships. Therefore, I propose raising the threshold to 130,000 GT for now, which will trim 12 ships from the bottom of the 'In service' list to leave 49. What does everyone think? Epistulae ad Familiares ( talk) 12:55, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@ Ahecht: Here it is over a year later and the list is still for anything over 120K, so 65 entries. I agree that it should be limited to 50 entries, if not less. The list is for the "largest". I would be happy to do that, but in my experience, Wikipedia pages always have people that think they're in charge and revert any good changes that they didn't do. Also this talk page really needs to be cleaned up. Someone else can do that. :) Jbw9 ( talk) 14:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Jbw9 @ Ahecht Just noticed this discussion. There are now 67 ships in service and 19 on order over 135,000 GT. If we raise the threshold to 150,000 GT, we will have 41 ships in service and 15 on order totalling 56. Way to go? IlkkaP ( talk) 16:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:37, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | List of largest cruise ships is a featured list, which means it has been identified as one of the best lists produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured list on September 7, 2020. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Featured list |
![]() | This article is rated FL-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archives: 1 |
|
I would like for a moderator to officially clarify that "largest" goes beyond mere gross tonnage, as largest is defined as "of considerable or relatively great size, extent, or capacity." Length is therefore a factor in determining the largest cruise ships, and to omit such a factor would make Wikipedia a less accurate source to the millions of teachers, students, and populace that rely on it everyday to be as accurate as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.28.18.138 ( talk) 16:45, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Just to get this out of the way, because the failure to recognise this is going to make further discussion very difficult: You are attempting to change the criterion of this article by adding the line "with ties being won by the longer ship". The current criterion is not "largeness" (in all its possible interpretations), but specifically gross tonnage. This is because, in lists on Wikipedia, the list criterion is not dictated by the article title but determined by the body of the article, specifically the lead section (which explains that "ships are ranked by gross tonnage"). This is described by Wikipedia's guideline
WP:LISTNAME, which states that the detailed criteria for inclusion should be described in the lead
. The title of the article, on the other hand, is meant to only briefly outline the content, and is not expected to contain a complete description of the list's subject
(see
WP:LISTNAME as well). This is why the article is called "
List of largest cruise ships", not "
List of largest cruise ships larger than 120,000 GT ranked by gross tonnage and divided into ships in service and ships under construction", and this is also why "
List of largest container ships", for example, is not "
List of largest container ships larger than 140,000 TEU ranked according to twenty-foot equivalent unit capacity and divided into completed ships and ships on order".
Now, this does not preclude you from proposing changes to the criterion, and you can implement it if you are able to obtain community consensus that the new criteria is a better way of constructing the article, but we need to recognise what is the current criterion first before proposing a change to it, and I feel misunderstanding what the current criterion is may be at least part of the reason why you feel I am the one "changing" the criterion. Once again, if you feel there is a need to change the criterion, you are certainly free to propose it; if, on the other hand, you feel that it is the title that needs to be changed, you are also free to propose it; the discussion will follow accordingly. I hope this explanation helps. — Madrenergic talk 16:24, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
In my opinios it would be the best to delete the last edits comltetely. This isn't an article about Cruise ships generally, we have the article Cruise ship. Now the arcticle seem to be a big chaos. Companies, propulsion and a lot more have nothing to do with it's size. HenSti ( talk) 11:12, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
When this list was first started, there were only 37 ships larger than 100,000GT, and 8 under construction. Now, however, there are almost double that number in service (71 ships) and almost 50 more that are planned. These days, ships under 100,000GT are the exception, rather than the rule. Therefore, I am proposing that, in order to make this list more meaningful and to differentiate it from List of cruise ships, that we increase the threshold to 120,000GT. If you graph all the current ship sizes, there seems to be a breakpoint between 116,000 and 121,000, so 120,000 seems like a logical place (looking at future ships, it seems like in a few years the logical breakpoint would be 165,000). This will trim the list to 44 ships right now, and it will be 50 ships by the end year.
Comments? --
Ahecht (
TALK
PAGE)
16:12, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
The list has been expanding nicely over the last few years, and we're currently sitting pretty at 61 entries (rank 59 is shared by three ships). However, with the large number of large cruise ships that were launched in recent years, I think the list has gradually bloated beyond its earlier size. In addition, it will continue to grow - the 'On order' section has 38 more entries that will only add to the main list as time wears on and these ships enter service. To keep it at a relevant and comfortable size, we should probably continue to maintain the 'In service' list at roughly 50 entries, and periodically trim it by raising the GT threshold and removing the entries of smaller ships that don't meet the raised threshold.
Currently the threshold is 120,000 GT, but given that the list is about the largest cruise ships, I doubt most readers of this type of list will be looking for or interested in the ships rated at between 120,000 to 130,000 GT, seeing as they are considered fairly mid-sized in the industry. The remaining ships larger than 130,000 GT would provide more than sufficient context for readers to compare the truly large ships. Therefore, I propose raising the threshold to 130,000 GT for now, which will trim 12 ships from the bottom of the 'In service' list to leave 49. What does everyone think? Epistulae ad Familiares ( talk) 12:55, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@ Ahecht: Here it is over a year later and the list is still for anything over 120K, so 65 entries. I agree that it should be limited to 50 entries, if not less. The list is for the "largest". I would be happy to do that, but in my experience, Wikipedia pages always have people that think they're in charge and revert any good changes that they didn't do. Also this talk page really needs to be cleaned up. Someone else can do that. :) Jbw9 ( talk) 14:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Jbw9 @ Ahecht Just noticed this discussion. There are now 67 ships in service and 19 on order over 135,000 GT. If we raise the threshold to 150,000 GT, we will have 41 ships in service and 15 on order totalling 56. Way to go? IlkkaP ( talk) 16:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:37, 18 July 2022 (UTC)