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There wasn't any part of Karelian language in the Finnish entry of 2010. It was sung completly in Finnish language and partly in Karelian dialect. But you-guys have to remember that Karelian dialect is totally different thing than Karelian language!! - 82.103.229.210 ( talk) 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Should the sign language in Lithuania's 2011 song 'C'est ma vie' not be counted as a language? I know the microphone can't exactly pick it up but it is used and understood by many people nonetheless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.117.86 ( talk) 02:16, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
What about the sign language in the Israeli entry in 2004? Shouldn't it be counted as a language? Thanks Tamiravr ( talk) 12:37, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved Dpmuk ( talk) 00:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Language in the Eurovision Song Contest → Languages in the Eurovision Song Contest — I am unsure why "language" is used in singular. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 13:10, 10 January 2011 (UTC) Support Both are acceptable in English. However, I think "Languages" is probably the better word in this context. Language could be inferred to mean swearing. Skinsmoke ( talk) 01:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Does it really count as a new language if only the title is in that language, but the song is entirely in another? Because the 2012 entry 'Suus' does not contain any Latin in its lyrics.
ISKolko ( talk) 19:33, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Why are several users and IPs adding new language details to the table for entries from the 2012 contest, when the contest is yet to be staged? We all know by now that the language choices for each entry is subject to change between now and the contest itself, and therefore we shouldn't be adding new details to the table until after the contest. I have told the users so far not to add such information, and also left an attention notice on the article (which is visible when anyone goes to edit the table), and still this is ignored. Would it be possible to semi-protect this article for the time being, to prevent further disruption? Thanks - Wesley ☀ Mouse 15:47, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I read somewhere Esperanto is banned from the Eurovision Song Contest and that only national languages are allowed. Is this true? How about the constructed languages used by Belgium and the Netherlands? Benimation ( talk) 22:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Following on from this, rather than listing "Constructed language" as something that first made an appearance in 2003, we should distinguish between established conlangs and ad-hoc ones (referred to as "Imaginary" in other Eurovision-related articles here). Moreover, saying "Constructed language" just begs the question of why on earth we're treating all conlangs as one language. On the other hand, ad-hoc languages aren't expected to be used again in another ESC later down the line, so it makes more sense to consider these as one.
As such, I'm going to change "Constructed language" to "Imaginary language" in the table. When an established conlang is first used in an ESC entry, we can list that language by its name. — Smjg ( talk) 01:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Somebody has changed this to refer to three entries as being in constructed languages. The individual song articles refer to two of these as in an imaginary language, and one as in an invented language. That said, I can see three possibilities:
It seems that there have been no instances of 1 to date – if there had, the song articles would surely identify the language. But it does seem odd that we don't seem to have had such an entry in all the years the contest has been going and considering how adventurous some entrants have been with their languages. The three we have could be either 2 or 3 in the absence of sources confirming one way or the other. I guess "imaginary language" is the best wording we can use. — Smjg ( talk) 01:55, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Monégasque is not official in Monaco. French is the only official language there. -- 2.245.242.24 ( talk) 21:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Should the Spanish language be considered to have debuted in 1961 when Spain debuted, or in 1957 when Germany's entrant sung a small phrase in Spanish? Stupid question, but I have been pondering this for a while. -- PootisHeavy ( talk) 05:01, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
17, 37 and 57 should be removed from this list. They are only dialects. They are no independent languages and part of the German language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.90.156.78 ( talk) 22:31, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
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I don't think the word "baga" counts as phrases in Japanese in the song "Toy", it is just an adjective which happens to sound similar to the word バカ(baka) in Japanese, she did not even pronounce the word in a Japanese way at all! If we really want to count Japanese, the first Japanese phrases came from Azerbaijan in the cancelled Eurovision 2020 "Cleopatra" for the lyrics "南無妙法蓮華経(なむみょうほうれんげきょう)." I think this is a fairer choice to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle Taiwan ( talk • contribs) 00:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
I'll copy you in @ Sims2aholic8 to ask this question. I understand, and accept, why some entries are shaded in and not counted because the amount of "language" is minor or fleeting. My question is about the definition or trigger point to decide what is shaded and what is not: at the bottom of the current table is Serbia 2022 and Australia 2024; what makes them countable? doktorb words deeds 18:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Is it possible to say one way or another whether the statement "Songs in languages other than English do better with Televotes than juries" is true? 2001:A62:142C:9802:C15C:FFA8:C202:7093 ( talk) 22:20, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
I think we should change the remaining appearances of "imaginary language" to a more established linguistic term. We can argue whether sounds that have no publicly disclosed meaning (is that the case tho? Were the songwriters never asked what the lyrics mean?) qualify as being written in a conlang. However, this might be due a misperception as to what a conlang can be. Sure, many conlangs are arguably as complete in vocabulary and syntax as natural languages. But a lot of conlangs have a corpus that could fit on a few postcards. Some conlangs were devised as means of communication or to resemble one but many of them — indeed arguably most conlangs were created "just for fun" or to argue or prove a point.
Alternative terms we might use are language game, glossolalia or even nonsense song. Maybe artistic language would be a good term?
Also, on the note of unique linguistic features, Wadde hadde dudde da is most definitely not a sentence that has been used widely outside the Eurovision song. Stefan Raab claims to have heard the title phrase as a form of baby talk used by a dog owner, but – like the linguistic consultants employed for Game of Thrones did with the crumbs the non-linguist G.R.R. Martin produced for High Valyrian and Dothraki – Raab went on to expand this lect into enough words to make up an entire song. Now it is understandable to a German native speaker what Raab is singing about, but it resembles no previously existing German sociolect or dialect. The song, in fact contains more (deliberately broken) English than Standard German. 2001:A62:1487:D302:4CE8:A2CC:ACB2:2E38 ( talk) 16:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
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List of languages in the Eurovision Song Contest article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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There wasn't any part of Karelian language in the Finnish entry of 2010. It was sung completly in Finnish language and partly in Karelian dialect. But you-guys have to remember that Karelian dialect is totally different thing than Karelian language!! - 82.103.229.210 ( talk) 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Should the sign language in Lithuania's 2011 song 'C'est ma vie' not be counted as a language? I know the microphone can't exactly pick it up but it is used and understood by many people nonetheless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.117.86 ( talk) 02:16, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
What about the sign language in the Israeli entry in 2004? Shouldn't it be counted as a language? Thanks Tamiravr ( talk) 12:37, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved Dpmuk ( talk) 00:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Language in the Eurovision Song Contest → Languages in the Eurovision Song Contest — I am unsure why "language" is used in singular. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 13:10, 10 January 2011 (UTC) Support Both are acceptable in English. However, I think "Languages" is probably the better word in this context. Language could be inferred to mean swearing. Skinsmoke ( talk) 01:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Does it really count as a new language if only the title is in that language, but the song is entirely in another? Because the 2012 entry 'Suus' does not contain any Latin in its lyrics.
ISKolko ( talk) 19:33, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Why are several users and IPs adding new language details to the table for entries from the 2012 contest, when the contest is yet to be staged? We all know by now that the language choices for each entry is subject to change between now and the contest itself, and therefore we shouldn't be adding new details to the table until after the contest. I have told the users so far not to add such information, and also left an attention notice on the article (which is visible when anyone goes to edit the table), and still this is ignored. Would it be possible to semi-protect this article for the time being, to prevent further disruption? Thanks - Wesley ☀ Mouse 15:47, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I read somewhere Esperanto is banned from the Eurovision Song Contest and that only national languages are allowed. Is this true? How about the constructed languages used by Belgium and the Netherlands? Benimation ( talk) 22:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Following on from this, rather than listing "Constructed language" as something that first made an appearance in 2003, we should distinguish between established conlangs and ad-hoc ones (referred to as "Imaginary" in other Eurovision-related articles here). Moreover, saying "Constructed language" just begs the question of why on earth we're treating all conlangs as one language. On the other hand, ad-hoc languages aren't expected to be used again in another ESC later down the line, so it makes more sense to consider these as one.
As such, I'm going to change "Constructed language" to "Imaginary language" in the table. When an established conlang is first used in an ESC entry, we can list that language by its name. — Smjg ( talk) 01:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Somebody has changed this to refer to three entries as being in constructed languages. The individual song articles refer to two of these as in an imaginary language, and one as in an invented language. That said, I can see three possibilities:
It seems that there have been no instances of 1 to date – if there had, the song articles would surely identify the language. But it does seem odd that we don't seem to have had such an entry in all the years the contest has been going and considering how adventurous some entrants have been with their languages. The three we have could be either 2 or 3 in the absence of sources confirming one way or the other. I guess "imaginary language" is the best wording we can use. — Smjg ( talk) 01:55, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Monégasque is not official in Monaco. French is the only official language there. -- 2.245.242.24 ( talk) 21:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Should the Spanish language be considered to have debuted in 1961 when Spain debuted, or in 1957 when Germany's entrant sung a small phrase in Spanish? Stupid question, but I have been pondering this for a while. -- PootisHeavy ( talk) 05:01, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
17, 37 and 57 should be removed from this list. They are only dialects. They are no independent languages and part of the German language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.90.156.78 ( talk) 22:31, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
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I don't think the word "baga" counts as phrases in Japanese in the song "Toy", it is just an adjective which happens to sound similar to the word バカ(baka) in Japanese, she did not even pronounce the word in a Japanese way at all! If we really want to count Japanese, the first Japanese phrases came from Azerbaijan in the cancelled Eurovision 2020 "Cleopatra" for the lyrics "南無妙法蓮華経(なむみょうほうれんげきょう)." I think this is a fairer choice to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle Taiwan ( talk • contribs) 00:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
I'll copy you in @ Sims2aholic8 to ask this question. I understand, and accept, why some entries are shaded in and not counted because the amount of "language" is minor or fleeting. My question is about the definition or trigger point to decide what is shaded and what is not: at the bottom of the current table is Serbia 2022 and Australia 2024; what makes them countable? doktorb words deeds 18:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Is it possible to say one way or another whether the statement "Songs in languages other than English do better with Televotes than juries" is true? 2001:A62:142C:9802:C15C:FFA8:C202:7093 ( talk) 22:20, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
I think we should change the remaining appearances of "imaginary language" to a more established linguistic term. We can argue whether sounds that have no publicly disclosed meaning (is that the case tho? Were the songwriters never asked what the lyrics mean?) qualify as being written in a conlang. However, this might be due a misperception as to what a conlang can be. Sure, many conlangs are arguably as complete in vocabulary and syntax as natural languages. But a lot of conlangs have a corpus that could fit on a few postcards. Some conlangs were devised as means of communication or to resemble one but many of them — indeed arguably most conlangs were created "just for fun" or to argue or prove a point.
Alternative terms we might use are language game, glossolalia or even nonsense song. Maybe artistic language would be a good term?
Also, on the note of unique linguistic features, Wadde hadde dudde da is most definitely not a sentence that has been used widely outside the Eurovision song. Stefan Raab claims to have heard the title phrase as a form of baby talk used by a dog owner, but – like the linguistic consultants employed for Game of Thrones did with the crumbs the non-linguist G.R.R. Martin produced for High Valyrian and Dothraki – Raab went on to expand this lect into enough words to make up an entire song. Now it is understandable to a German native speaker what Raab is singing about, but it resembles no previously existing German sociolect or dialect. The song, in fact contains more (deliberately broken) English than Standard German. 2001:A62:1487:D302:4CE8:A2CC:ACB2:2E38 ( talk) 16:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)