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![]() | On 29 June 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to List of extinct languages by time of extinction. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Many of the unknown date of extinction category languages could be moved. Most of the ones that I have added have sources in other languages that I don't understand. Because of this, I can't tell if a source is documenting a language at a time when it was spoken or if it is just using other sources that have documented the language when it was spoken.
It was recently removed without much of an explanation.
It's entry in the list before it was removed.
| 1763 || Susquehannock || Iroquoian || Maryland/ Virginia, United States || roughly concurrent to the Conestoga massacre
I have re-added Susquehannock because there wasn't a reason for it's removal.
|after 1763|| Susquehannock|| Iroquoian || Northeastern United States||After the Conestoga massacre. |-
Why is Latin not listed? If it is an error of ommission, the article would be improved by adding it. If it was ommitted purposefully, the article would be improved by explaining why. 98.117.49.203 ( talk) 07:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I was just on the UNESCO Atlas of the World Languages and it lists the Lae language of Papua New Guinea as being exinct. It is believed to have died around the year 2000. Should we include this in the chart? The only reference I can find to this language even existing is on the UNESCO site. Mr Languages ( talk) 02:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I added it as Aribwatsa one of its three common names.
Some of the dates given in this list border on the ridiculous – or even worse. Lepontic is attested as late as the 1st century BC, so how could it have gone extinct by 400 BC already? And Gaulish "extinct after 500 BC"? Are you kidding me?! Gaulish is not even attested before the 3rd century BC! It's true that many inscriptions cannot be dated precisely and late references to the language are somewhat ambiguous such that it is not 100% certain that they actually refer to living Gaulish being spoken, but according to Stifter, it is absolutely uncontroversial that Gaulish was a living language as late as the 2nd century AD – and it may still have been spoken several centuries later (unless the literary references listed on Gaulish language#External evidence are misleading), by Late Antiquity, in the Christian period! Compare the discussion of the evidence for Lepontic and Late Gaulish in the Stifter PDFs linked on Lepontic language, from which it emerges that the late evidence for Gaulish is not completely certain; the inscriptions which seem to be late for language-external reasons as well (such as the inscriptions on spindle whorls) also offer a rather mixed and ambiguous linguistic picture and may be at least partly in Latin influenced by Gaulish (Gallo-Latin, probably a direct ancestor of Old French) rather than Gaulish influenced by Latin. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 17:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Even Zoroastrians don't use Avestan? Complete extinction? -- Zyma ( talk) 07:09, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
The date given for Old Chinese (after 1200 BC) is silly too – (1250 to) 1200 BC is when Old Chinese is first attested. The end of Old Chinese is ill-defined (which is why I don't think that the inclusion of older stages of languages is useful), but the language spoken around 1000 years later is still called Old Chinese (certainly not Middle Chinese yet before the turn of the eras). -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 15:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
According to the section, Lower Arrernte language died in 2011 with Perrurle's dead but the source is a 2007 article about him. The actual language has no source either. -- Ricky81682 ( talk) 06:24, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
The article on Hazel Sampson says that she was the last native speaker of Klallam, but that "The Klallam language is still spoken as a second language by some members of the four indigenous Klallam communities [...], as well as the Beecher Bay Klallam of British Columbia, Canada." If it is still spoken, is it extinct? -- Andreas Philopater ( talk) 01:55, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
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I propose merging List of last known speakers of languages into this article. Every person in that list, except for the few still alive, is explicitly included in the "Notes" column of this list, e.g. "with the death of Edwin Benson". With respect to the living, there are many languages with only a handful of speakers left, see e.g. here, and it is not often reported when a not-yet extinct language goes from having several speakers to only one to qualify for that list, whereas when a language dies it more often has media coverage. This article is also far more complete than that one, having tens of last language speakers not in that list. Calbow ( talk) 12:25, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 ( talk) 10:17, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
List of languages by time of extinction → List of extinct languages by time of extinction – The title would make more sense as "List of extinct languages by time of extinction" since this list is explicitly talking about extinct languages Blubabluba9990 ( talk) ( contribs) 00:25, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Despite little participation, the previous RM and Colin M's oppose in this one make it clear that there is little appetite for the title change, and there is consensus that the current name does not "imply that all languages are extinct". No such user ( talk) 12:13, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
List of languages by time of extinction → Chronological list of extinct languages – The current name doesn't make sense as it implies that all languages are extinct. I proposed "List of extinct languages by time of extinction" but people didn't like the repetition, so another user suggested this new title. Blubabluba9990 ( talk) ( contribs) 12:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: ( non-admin closure) NOT MOVED User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
The multiple discussions have shown that the community does not share Blubabluba9990's concern with the current title. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC) User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
List of languages by time of extinction → Timeline of extinct languages – Again, the current name of this list falsely implies that this list includes all languages, not just extinct languages. Since my previous two requests failed, I feel like this would be the best name since it is short and accurately describes what this list is about. Blubabluba9990 ( talk) ( contribs) 18:32, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Currently, this list contains several languages that did not actually go extinct but instead evolved. Consider for instance Egyptian. There is a continual evolutionary process connecting Ancient Egyptian to the Coptic language which became extinct in perhaps the 17th century AD. It is entirely analogous to the relationship between for instance Ancient Greek and Modern Greek, or Ancient Chinese and Modern Chinese, but no one suggest that Ancient Chinese went extinct. I propose that we remove from this list languages that clearly evolved into new stages rather than becoming extinct. Ordinary Person ( talk) 05:43, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
It says that nothing is directly known about the language. It should be noted if the language is only prospected to have existed. Maybe it should say that it is unattested or guessed to have existed. 64.124.38.140 ( talk) 19:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
This is not a terribly important edit to be made, but I think it would look better on the article. Thank you. 64.124.38.140 ( talk) 14:04, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 29 June 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to List of extinct languages by time of extinction. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Many of the unknown date of extinction category languages could be moved. Most of the ones that I have added have sources in other languages that I don't understand. Because of this, I can't tell if a source is documenting a language at a time when it was spoken or if it is just using other sources that have documented the language when it was spoken.
It was recently removed without much of an explanation.
It's entry in the list before it was removed.
| 1763 || Susquehannock || Iroquoian || Maryland/ Virginia, United States || roughly concurrent to the Conestoga massacre
I have re-added Susquehannock because there wasn't a reason for it's removal.
|after 1763|| Susquehannock|| Iroquoian || Northeastern United States||After the Conestoga massacre. |-
Why is Latin not listed? If it is an error of ommission, the article would be improved by adding it. If it was ommitted purposefully, the article would be improved by explaining why. 98.117.49.203 ( talk) 07:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I was just on the UNESCO Atlas of the World Languages and it lists the Lae language of Papua New Guinea as being exinct. It is believed to have died around the year 2000. Should we include this in the chart? The only reference I can find to this language even existing is on the UNESCO site. Mr Languages ( talk) 02:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I added it as Aribwatsa one of its three common names.
Some of the dates given in this list border on the ridiculous – or even worse. Lepontic is attested as late as the 1st century BC, so how could it have gone extinct by 400 BC already? And Gaulish "extinct after 500 BC"? Are you kidding me?! Gaulish is not even attested before the 3rd century BC! It's true that many inscriptions cannot be dated precisely and late references to the language are somewhat ambiguous such that it is not 100% certain that they actually refer to living Gaulish being spoken, but according to Stifter, it is absolutely uncontroversial that Gaulish was a living language as late as the 2nd century AD – and it may still have been spoken several centuries later (unless the literary references listed on Gaulish language#External evidence are misleading), by Late Antiquity, in the Christian period! Compare the discussion of the evidence for Lepontic and Late Gaulish in the Stifter PDFs linked on Lepontic language, from which it emerges that the late evidence for Gaulish is not completely certain; the inscriptions which seem to be late for language-external reasons as well (such as the inscriptions on spindle whorls) also offer a rather mixed and ambiguous linguistic picture and may be at least partly in Latin influenced by Gaulish (Gallo-Latin, probably a direct ancestor of Old French) rather than Gaulish influenced by Latin. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 17:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Even Zoroastrians don't use Avestan? Complete extinction? -- Zyma ( talk) 07:09, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
The date given for Old Chinese (after 1200 BC) is silly too – (1250 to) 1200 BC is when Old Chinese is first attested. The end of Old Chinese is ill-defined (which is why I don't think that the inclusion of older stages of languages is useful), but the language spoken around 1000 years later is still called Old Chinese (certainly not Middle Chinese yet before the turn of the eras). -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 15:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
According to the section, Lower Arrernte language died in 2011 with Perrurle's dead but the source is a 2007 article about him. The actual language has no source either. -- Ricky81682 ( talk) 06:24, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
The article on Hazel Sampson says that she was the last native speaker of Klallam, but that "The Klallam language is still spoken as a second language by some members of the four indigenous Klallam communities [...], as well as the Beecher Bay Klallam of British Columbia, Canada." If it is still spoken, is it extinct? -- Andreas Philopater ( talk) 01:55, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
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I propose merging List of last known speakers of languages into this article. Every person in that list, except for the few still alive, is explicitly included in the "Notes" column of this list, e.g. "with the death of Edwin Benson". With respect to the living, there are many languages with only a handful of speakers left, see e.g. here, and it is not often reported when a not-yet extinct language goes from having several speakers to only one to qualify for that list, whereas when a language dies it more often has media coverage. This article is also far more complete than that one, having tens of last language speakers not in that list. Calbow ( talk) 12:25, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 ( talk) 10:17, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
List of languages by time of extinction → List of extinct languages by time of extinction – The title would make more sense as "List of extinct languages by time of extinction" since this list is explicitly talking about extinct languages Blubabluba9990 ( talk) ( contribs) 00:25, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Despite little participation, the previous RM and Colin M's oppose in this one make it clear that there is little appetite for the title change, and there is consensus that the current name does not "imply that all languages are extinct". No such user ( talk) 12:13, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
List of languages by time of extinction → Chronological list of extinct languages – The current name doesn't make sense as it implies that all languages are extinct. I proposed "List of extinct languages by time of extinction" but people didn't like the repetition, so another user suggested this new title. Blubabluba9990 ( talk) ( contribs) 12:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: ( non-admin closure) NOT MOVED User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
The multiple discussions have shown that the community does not share Blubabluba9990's concern with the current title. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC) User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
List of languages by time of extinction → Timeline of extinct languages – Again, the current name of this list falsely implies that this list includes all languages, not just extinct languages. Since my previous two requests failed, I feel like this would be the best name since it is short and accurately describes what this list is about. Blubabluba9990 ( talk) ( contribs) 18:32, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Currently, this list contains several languages that did not actually go extinct but instead evolved. Consider for instance Egyptian. There is a continual evolutionary process connecting Ancient Egyptian to the Coptic language which became extinct in perhaps the 17th century AD. It is entirely analogous to the relationship between for instance Ancient Greek and Modern Greek, or Ancient Chinese and Modern Chinese, but no one suggest that Ancient Chinese went extinct. I propose that we remove from this list languages that clearly evolved into new stages rather than becoming extinct. Ordinary Person ( talk) 05:43, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
It says that nothing is directly known about the language. It should be noted if the language is only prospected to have existed. Maybe it should say that it is unattested or guessed to have existed. 64.124.38.140 ( talk) 19:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
This is not a terribly important edit to be made, but I think it would look better on the article. Thank you. 64.124.38.140 ( talk) 14:04, 1 May 2024 (UTC)