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It would be beneficial to categorize handgun cartridges into two sub-pages, one for revolver cartridges and one for semi-automatic cartridges. Perhaps three sub-pages, an additional sub-page for cartridges that are used in both categories. There would be some cartridges listed more than once, but it would be of benefit to compare apples to apples. I don't see much benefit of comparing a revolcer cartidge to a semi-automatic cartridge. Totally different animals. We don't put rifle cartidges on this page for a reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.102.203 ( talk) 21:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
These are all very good articles, but since most of these pages are short, wouldn't it be more effective to have all of them merged into single pages? This could be applied to the 9mm cartridges, and the .22's for starters, since there are so many variants of those specific ammunition types. An added bonus is that people who were unfamiliar with the specific types wouldn't be confused by an unecessary disambiguation page. GameJunkieJim 13:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Whats the definition to be used on this page? Its not stated. If a cartridge was first made for one or another then it should be listed as first one or both?. Or should now the 45/70 has been in a hand gun it should listed as a pistol cartridge? Then both lists should just be combined as there will be examples or nearly every one in the other. So how is it decided if it belongs in both lists? The makes desciption of the cartridge when first released, then if not description was it forst commercially made in pistol or rifle as the decider?-- Big5Hunter 08:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
D.E. Watters 16:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
"Not recommended for firearm use" LOL! -- Armanalp ( talk) 19:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
analytics-statistics.com/documents/byk.pdf
oddly enough on wiki —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.84.6.120 (
talk) 02:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
I've undone this change twice, and so I'm raising it here as a discussion point. If you're going to have a list of calibres, then the simplest way to arrange it is by bore diameter. If one were interested, for example, in calibres of about .40 (the 10 mm range), then they are listed, regardless of how they are called. By splitting metric and imperial cartridges, one now has to look in two places.
More importantly, cartridges often have multiple names. The .25 ACP, for example, is also the 6.35 mm Auto. The .32 ACP is the 7.65 mm Auto, and the .38 ACP is also known as the 9 mm Kurtz. The .40 S&W was often called the 10 mm Lite at its introduction, and is sometimes so called today. So, to which list (metric or imperial) does each cartridge belong? Both? It's much simpler to simply sort by bore size.
I do, though, think that separating rimfire and centrefire cartridges is a sensible choice. Sacxpert ( talk) 21:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
It would make sense to list both a metric and imperial designation for the same cartridge if the cartridge is commonly known by both and the list was separated.
It would perhaps also be beneficial to this list if were a sortable list like the list of pistols page. Pigoutultra ( talk) 01:46, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
I am the one that sorted the calibers out yesterday, so I'll explain why I did it. First off, the title of the page is "List of handgun cartridges", so it should be just that; a list. I've thought this over about both the pistol and rifle cartridge lists, and in my opinion these pages should be used as a reference to find a particular cartridge that you may be interested in learning more about. Pages already exist that have calibers grouped together in a chart with comparative information available at a glance. The List of cartridges by caliber page has a list of different calibers that you can click and pull the charts up. If you guys are wanting to compare calibers side by side at a glance, than those pages already exist. If I hear of a caliber I know nothing about and want to research it, I pull up the List of handgun cartridges or List of rifle cartridges, find that caliber, and read the article if one exists. There has been talk of listing calibers by bore size. That would be fine if everyone knew the bore size already, but it makes more sense to list the cartridges numerically and alphabetically to make finding it easier. That's another reason I separated inch and metric calibers, to make them easier to find. If a caliber commonly goes by two different names depending on what part of the world you're in, by all means list it in both sections. In the Inch section, list the .25 ACP as .25 ACP. In the Metric section, list it as 6.35 mm Auto so users that know it by that name can find it. My dad owns a Baby Browning chambered in .25 ACP. I've shot it several times and bought ammo for it here in Kentucky, and I've never heard of it being called a 6.35 mm Auto so I wouldn't know to look in the 6 mm category to read about it. Another example about listing by bore size is the .38 Special. I have owned a few revolvers chambered in .38 Special and have used them in both defensive pistol shooting competitions and for long-range silhouette shooting competitions, so I know a little about the cartridge and that it uses a .357 sized bullet, but someone wanting to find information about the round that knows nothing about it would look for it somewhere around the .380 ACP and the .38 Super, not around the .357 Magnum because they won't know it doesn't fire a .38 caliber bullet. Something I pointed out before was that SAAMI, who lists the standards for cartridge and chamber dimensions, lists calibers by name, not bore diameter. They know that not everyone knows all of that information beforehand. Here is a link to their pistol/revolver cartridge page. They don't separate by revolver or pistol, and they don't list by bore diameter.-- KySharpshooter ( talk) 14:47, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Another thing. If I want to read about the 5.7x28mm, I won't know right away where to look in the list because we don't use the metric system here in the United States, so I have to scan over the list and pick it out. I see no reason to have the list go .224 Montgomery, then have three different 5mm cartridges, then .25 ACP, then 6.5mm Bergmann, then .25 NAA, and so on. The list looks very unorganized that way, and I don't know how anyone can say that it does.-- KySharpshooter ( talk) 14:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Cartridge name | Bore diameter | Case length | Type | Source |
---|---|---|---|---|
.380 Automatic (9 mm Kurz, 9 mm Browning Short, 9x17 mm, .380 ACP) | .356 in (9.0 mm) | .680 in (17.3 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
9 mm Ultra (9 mm Police, 9x18 mm) | .355 in (9.0 mm) | .720 in (18.3 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
9 mm Parabellum (9 mm Luger, 9 mm NATO, 9x19 mm) | .355 in (9.0 mm) | .754 in (19.2 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
9x21 mm (9 mm ISI) | .355 in (9.0 mm) | .830 in (21.1 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
.41 Avenger | .410 in (10.4 mm) | .950 in (24.1 mm) | Rimless | Handloader 107, p. 28 |
.45 Winchester Magnum (.45 NAACO) | .452 in (11.5 mm) | 1.198 in (30.4 mm) | Rimless | Sierra Handgun Reloading Manual 4th Ed, p. 248 |
What do we think? Sacxpert ( talk) 09:28, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I know how to use the metric system, it's just not my preferred method because it takes a couple seconds to calculate the conversion. It would be easier just to click on "Metric" in the Table of Contents, but I am apparently in the minority in thinking the list would look more organized and tidy if it was listed in the method I presented, so I'll back down and you guys do with it as you wish. For my personal use I'll make my own page to use for reference.-- KySharpshooter ( talk) 13:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Cartridge name | Bullet diameter | Case length | Overall length | Type | SAAMI? |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
.17 Mach 2 | .172 in (4.4 mm) | .714 in (18.1 mm) | 1.000 in (25.4 mm) | Rimmed, bottleneck | yes |
.17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire | .172 in (4.4 mm) | 1.064 in (27.0 mm) | 1.365 in (34.7 mm) | Rimmed, bottleneck | yes |
.22 BB | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .284 in (7.2 mm) | .343 in (8.7 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 CB | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .284 in (7.2 mm) | .343 in (8.7 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 Short | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .421 in (10.7 mm) | .695 in (17.7 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 Long | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .613 in (15.6 mm) | .888 in (22.6 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 Long Rifle | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .613 in (15.6 mm) | 1.000 in (25.4 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 Extra Long | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .750 in (19.1 mm) | 1.160 in (29.5 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 Remington Automatic | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .663 in (16.8 mm) | .920 in (23.4 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 Winchester Automatic | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .665 in (16.9 mm) | .915 in (23.2 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 WMR | .224 in (5.7 mm) | 1.055 in (26.8 mm) | 1.350 in (34.3 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 WRF | .226 in (5.7 mm) | .965 in (24.5 mm) | 1.180 in (30.0 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
2.34mm Swiss Mini Gun | .092 in (2.3 mm) | .240 in (6.1 mm) | .359 in (9.1 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
5mm Remington Mag | .205 in (5.2 mm) | 1.020 in (25.9 mm) | 1.300 in (33.0 mm) | Rimmed, bottleneck | no |
Cartridge name | Bullet diameter | Case length | Type | Source |
---|---|---|---|---|
.357/44 Bain & Davis | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.280 in (32.5 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 200 Wildcat |
.357 Magnum (9x31 mmR, .353 Casull [special hunting load for Freedom Arms revolvers]) | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.290 in (32.8 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
Cartridge name | Bullet diameter | Case length | Cartridge length | Type | Source |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
.357/44 Bain & Davis | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.280 in (32.5 mm) | 1.550 in (39.4 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 200 Wildcat |
.357 Magnum (9x31 mmR, .353 Casull [special hunting load for Freedom Arms revolvers]) | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.290 in (32.8 mm) | 1.510 in (38.4 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
[Outdent] Well, the ctg length column is built into it now. I have used the following labels to sort the case types: Rimless, Rimmed, Semi-rimmed, Rebated rim, and Belted. I'm pretty sure I got them all right, but if you think I erred, by all means double-check. As for straight, tapered, or bottleneck; that would be of some interest, and could be inserted with a line break below the case type. After many, many hours, though, I'm not sure I'm in the mood to do it myself, at least not right away. I'll get the case lengths added in, though.
Your idea about indicating standard, proprietary, wilcat, or obsolete has some value. However, I'd note that we've already sextupled the information on this list. We started from a pure list of cartridges in rough order. Now, we have cartridge name, bullet diameter, case length, cartridge length, cartridge type, and a source (which may be the best part, since it helps cut down on mistaken additions to the list). I'm not trying to say there's no room for more. At some point, though, people really can click on the cartridge if they want to know more about it. They could then learn about a round's transition from wildcat to proprietary to factory load to obsolescence. This is fundamentally a list -- the articles are there (for most of the cartridges, at least) if they want to know more. Sacxpert ( talk) 18:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
You might want to look at some of the values again. I noticed one error in the listing for the .357SIG round. It states that the bullet diameter is .357 whereas on the .357SIG wiki page it states that it is .355. The .357SIG fires the same diameter 9mm bullet as the typical 9x19 NATO round. Grumman581 ( talk) 16:40, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful to add a column for which country the cartridge comes from, for example noting that 7.62x38R is from Russia. What say you? Bthylafh ( talk) 01:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
What does "Barnes" mean (see table #1 References)? Сергей Олегович ( talk) 13:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
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Can we add this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9730mm_MINSAS Ujjwalkumar 47 ( talk) 23:06, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
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It would be beneficial to categorize handgun cartridges into two sub-pages, one for revolver cartridges and one for semi-automatic cartridges. Perhaps three sub-pages, an additional sub-page for cartridges that are used in both categories. There would be some cartridges listed more than once, but it would be of benefit to compare apples to apples. I don't see much benefit of comparing a revolcer cartidge to a semi-automatic cartridge. Totally different animals. We don't put rifle cartidges on this page for a reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.102.203 ( talk) 21:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
These are all very good articles, but since most of these pages are short, wouldn't it be more effective to have all of them merged into single pages? This could be applied to the 9mm cartridges, and the .22's for starters, since there are so many variants of those specific ammunition types. An added bonus is that people who were unfamiliar with the specific types wouldn't be confused by an unecessary disambiguation page. GameJunkieJim 13:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Whats the definition to be used on this page? Its not stated. If a cartridge was first made for one or another then it should be listed as first one or both?. Or should now the 45/70 has been in a hand gun it should listed as a pistol cartridge? Then both lists should just be combined as there will be examples or nearly every one in the other. So how is it decided if it belongs in both lists? The makes desciption of the cartridge when first released, then if not description was it forst commercially made in pistol or rifle as the decider?-- Big5Hunter 08:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
D.E. Watters 16:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
"Not recommended for firearm use" LOL! -- Armanalp ( talk) 19:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
analytics-statistics.com/documents/byk.pdf
oddly enough on wiki —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.84.6.120 (
talk) 02:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
I've undone this change twice, and so I'm raising it here as a discussion point. If you're going to have a list of calibres, then the simplest way to arrange it is by bore diameter. If one were interested, for example, in calibres of about .40 (the 10 mm range), then they are listed, regardless of how they are called. By splitting metric and imperial cartridges, one now has to look in two places.
More importantly, cartridges often have multiple names. The .25 ACP, for example, is also the 6.35 mm Auto. The .32 ACP is the 7.65 mm Auto, and the .38 ACP is also known as the 9 mm Kurtz. The .40 S&W was often called the 10 mm Lite at its introduction, and is sometimes so called today. So, to which list (metric or imperial) does each cartridge belong? Both? It's much simpler to simply sort by bore size.
I do, though, think that separating rimfire and centrefire cartridges is a sensible choice. Sacxpert ( talk) 21:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
It would make sense to list both a metric and imperial designation for the same cartridge if the cartridge is commonly known by both and the list was separated.
It would perhaps also be beneficial to this list if were a sortable list like the list of pistols page. Pigoutultra ( talk) 01:46, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
I am the one that sorted the calibers out yesterday, so I'll explain why I did it. First off, the title of the page is "List of handgun cartridges", so it should be just that; a list. I've thought this over about both the pistol and rifle cartridge lists, and in my opinion these pages should be used as a reference to find a particular cartridge that you may be interested in learning more about. Pages already exist that have calibers grouped together in a chart with comparative information available at a glance. The List of cartridges by caliber page has a list of different calibers that you can click and pull the charts up. If you guys are wanting to compare calibers side by side at a glance, than those pages already exist. If I hear of a caliber I know nothing about and want to research it, I pull up the List of handgun cartridges or List of rifle cartridges, find that caliber, and read the article if one exists. There has been talk of listing calibers by bore size. That would be fine if everyone knew the bore size already, but it makes more sense to list the cartridges numerically and alphabetically to make finding it easier. That's another reason I separated inch and metric calibers, to make them easier to find. If a caliber commonly goes by two different names depending on what part of the world you're in, by all means list it in both sections. In the Inch section, list the .25 ACP as .25 ACP. In the Metric section, list it as 6.35 mm Auto so users that know it by that name can find it. My dad owns a Baby Browning chambered in .25 ACP. I've shot it several times and bought ammo for it here in Kentucky, and I've never heard of it being called a 6.35 mm Auto so I wouldn't know to look in the 6 mm category to read about it. Another example about listing by bore size is the .38 Special. I have owned a few revolvers chambered in .38 Special and have used them in both defensive pistol shooting competitions and for long-range silhouette shooting competitions, so I know a little about the cartridge and that it uses a .357 sized bullet, but someone wanting to find information about the round that knows nothing about it would look for it somewhere around the .380 ACP and the .38 Super, not around the .357 Magnum because they won't know it doesn't fire a .38 caliber bullet. Something I pointed out before was that SAAMI, who lists the standards for cartridge and chamber dimensions, lists calibers by name, not bore diameter. They know that not everyone knows all of that information beforehand. Here is a link to their pistol/revolver cartridge page. They don't separate by revolver or pistol, and they don't list by bore diameter.-- KySharpshooter ( talk) 14:47, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Another thing. If I want to read about the 5.7x28mm, I won't know right away where to look in the list because we don't use the metric system here in the United States, so I have to scan over the list and pick it out. I see no reason to have the list go .224 Montgomery, then have three different 5mm cartridges, then .25 ACP, then 6.5mm Bergmann, then .25 NAA, and so on. The list looks very unorganized that way, and I don't know how anyone can say that it does.-- KySharpshooter ( talk) 14:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Cartridge name | Bore diameter | Case length | Type | Source |
---|---|---|---|---|
.380 Automatic (9 mm Kurz, 9 mm Browning Short, 9x17 mm, .380 ACP) | .356 in (9.0 mm) | .680 in (17.3 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
9 mm Ultra (9 mm Police, 9x18 mm) | .355 in (9.0 mm) | .720 in (18.3 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
9 mm Parabellum (9 mm Luger, 9 mm NATO, 9x19 mm) | .355 in (9.0 mm) | .754 in (19.2 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
9x21 mm (9 mm ISI) | .355 in (9.0 mm) | .830 in (21.1 mm) | Rimless | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
.41 Avenger | .410 in (10.4 mm) | .950 in (24.1 mm) | Rimless | Handloader 107, p. 28 |
.45 Winchester Magnum (.45 NAACO) | .452 in (11.5 mm) | 1.198 in (30.4 mm) | Rimless | Sierra Handgun Reloading Manual 4th Ed, p. 248 |
What do we think? Sacxpert ( talk) 09:28, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I know how to use the metric system, it's just not my preferred method because it takes a couple seconds to calculate the conversion. It would be easier just to click on "Metric" in the Table of Contents, but I am apparently in the minority in thinking the list would look more organized and tidy if it was listed in the method I presented, so I'll back down and you guys do with it as you wish. For my personal use I'll make my own page to use for reference.-- KySharpshooter ( talk) 13:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Cartridge name | Bullet diameter | Case length | Overall length | Type | SAAMI? |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
.17 Mach 2 | .172 in (4.4 mm) | .714 in (18.1 mm) | 1.000 in (25.4 mm) | Rimmed, bottleneck | yes |
.17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire | .172 in (4.4 mm) | 1.064 in (27.0 mm) | 1.365 in (34.7 mm) | Rimmed, bottleneck | yes |
.22 BB | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .284 in (7.2 mm) | .343 in (8.7 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 CB | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .284 in (7.2 mm) | .343 in (8.7 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 Short | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .421 in (10.7 mm) | .695 in (17.7 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 Long | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .613 in (15.6 mm) | .888 in (22.6 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 Long Rifle | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .613 in (15.6 mm) | 1.000 in (25.4 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 Extra Long | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .750 in (19.1 mm) | 1.160 in (29.5 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 Remington Automatic | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .663 in (16.8 mm) | .920 in (23.4 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 Winchester Automatic | .222 in (5.6 mm) | .665 in (16.9 mm) | .915 in (23.2 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
.22 WMR | .224 in (5.7 mm) | 1.055 in (26.8 mm) | 1.350 in (34.3 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
.22 WRF | .226 in (5.7 mm) | .965 in (24.5 mm) | 1.180 in (30.0 mm) | Rimmed, straight | yes |
2.34mm Swiss Mini Gun | .092 in (2.3 mm) | .240 in (6.1 mm) | .359 in (9.1 mm) | Rimmed, straight | no |
5mm Remington Mag | .205 in (5.2 mm) | 1.020 in (25.9 mm) | 1.300 in (33.0 mm) | Rimmed, bottleneck | no |
Cartridge name | Bullet diameter | Case length | Type | Source |
---|---|---|---|---|
.357/44 Bain & Davis | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.280 in (32.5 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 200 Wildcat |
.357 Magnum (9x31 mmR, .353 Casull [special hunting load for Freedom Arms revolvers]) | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.290 in (32.8 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
Cartridge name | Bullet diameter | Case length | Cartridge length | Type | Source |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
.357/44 Bain & Davis | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.280 in (32.5 mm) | 1.550 in (39.4 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 200 Wildcat |
.357 Magnum (9x31 mmR, .353 Casull [special hunting load for Freedom Arms revolvers]) | .357 in (9.1 mm) | 1.290 in (32.8 mm) | 1.510 in (38.4 mm) | Rimmed | Barnes 1997, p. 274 |
[Outdent] Well, the ctg length column is built into it now. I have used the following labels to sort the case types: Rimless, Rimmed, Semi-rimmed, Rebated rim, and Belted. I'm pretty sure I got them all right, but if you think I erred, by all means double-check. As for straight, tapered, or bottleneck; that would be of some interest, and could be inserted with a line break below the case type. After many, many hours, though, I'm not sure I'm in the mood to do it myself, at least not right away. I'll get the case lengths added in, though.
Your idea about indicating standard, proprietary, wilcat, or obsolete has some value. However, I'd note that we've already sextupled the information on this list. We started from a pure list of cartridges in rough order. Now, we have cartridge name, bullet diameter, case length, cartridge length, cartridge type, and a source (which may be the best part, since it helps cut down on mistaken additions to the list). I'm not trying to say there's no room for more. At some point, though, people really can click on the cartridge if they want to know more about it. They could then learn about a round's transition from wildcat to proprietary to factory load to obsolescence. This is fundamentally a list -- the articles are there (for most of the cartridges, at least) if they want to know more. Sacxpert ( talk) 18:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
You might want to look at some of the values again. I noticed one error in the listing for the .357SIG round. It states that the bullet diameter is .357 whereas on the .357SIG wiki page it states that it is .355. The .357SIG fires the same diameter 9mm bullet as the typical 9x19 NATO round. Grumman581 ( talk) 16:40, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful to add a column for which country the cartridge comes from, for example noting that 7.62x38R is from Russia. What say you? Bthylafh ( talk) 01:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
What does "Barnes" mean (see table #1 References)? Сергей Олегович ( talk) 13:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 22:16, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
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Can we add this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9730mm_MINSAS Ujjwalkumar 47 ( talk) 23:06, 22 July 2021 (UTC)