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Article title
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Perhaps you two could compromise and put the article at List of Gibraltarian Flags? That seems to be the adjective that's actually in use.
Orange Tuesday (
talk)
13:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)reply
As Gibnews pointed out the word 'Gibraltan' is not correct. Although it can be commonly used, it actually doesn't exist. The term
Gibraltarian, refers particularly to the people of Gibraltar. As strange as it may seem, Gibraltar is in fact the correct adjective. --
Gibmetal 77talk16:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)reply
I guess that would be a compromise, but the correct title would be List of Gibraltar flags. Just because the
Union flag is most commonly known as the Union Jack doesn't make it right... --
Gibmetal 77talk23:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)reply
To a Gibraltarian the title of this page sounds as stupid as 'List of Pommie flags'. Gibraltar is a word which can be a noun and an adjective. The Gibraltar telephone directory (2007) has three pages of double columns of entities starting at The Gibraltar Amateur Drama Association and ending with The Gibraltar Yacht registry there are NO entries for anything prefixed with Gibraltarian and the word Gibraltan is simply not in use in the territory, its considered gross. --
Gibnews (
talk)
Just because it may sound strange to some, doesn't mean we should give it a different name. List of Japan flags would most certainly not be correct, but List of Gibraltar flags is. --
Gibmetal 77talk16:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)reply
The word Gibraltan exists, and most laymen would probably be able to understand it as the adjective form of Gibraltar, but it's certainly not common. The word returns a scant few thousand hits on google, and is barely used on Wikipedia at all. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to be used officially. It doesn't show up anywhere on the Gibraltar government website, for example.
The word Gibraltarian sounds like an adjective for Gibraltar, and even gets used like it occasionally on Wikipedia (e.g.
Gibraltarian cuisine) and in certain dictionaries,
[1]. But the consensus among Gibraltarians appears to be that it's just a noun used to refer to the people of Gibraltar.
The word Gibraltar appears to be the official adjective form. The CIA World Factbook lists it as the adjective of the territory, but I'm not sure how common a usage it is outside of Gibraltar. Dictionary.com, for instance, doesn't seem to recognize that "Gibraltar" can be an adjective.
[2] Plus, as this whole debate has shown, it leads to confusion. The word sounds weird to people who don't know that it's an adjective, even though it's correct.
Therefore, I have to say that the easiest solution, one that would please everyone, would be to move the page to List of Flags of Gibraltar and have all the other versions redirect there. Not only is it exactly as correct as "List of Gibraltar flags", and more correct than "List of Gibraltarian flags" or "List of Gibraltan flags", but it offers no room for confusion at all. And it wouldn't even be special treatment or compromise for this page. Almost all of the Gibraltar-related pages on Wikipedia are at "X of Gibraltar" instead of "Gibraltar X", and there are many pages like this one that are at "List of flags of X" instead of "List of X flags". No one loses this way.
Orange Tuesday (
talk)
18:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Fair enough,
List of flags of Gibraltar would be "acceptable", whereas Gibraltarian or Gibraltan are definitely not. However, by using "Gibraltar" as the adjective on some pages on wikipedia, we would in a way minimise this confusion by giving this correct term more usage... --
Gibmetal 77talk19:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)reply
We would indeed, but we probably shouldn't, as such
promotion is contrary to Wikipedia policy. That's not to comment on whether the proposed move is a good idea, it's just to say that this particular reason has a problem.
Andrewa (
talk)
04:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Unlike French or Spanish there is no academy who determine the use of the English language, and online user contributed dictionararies are as reliable as their contributors. If you search the following authorative websites
You can see the context in which the words are used:
Gibraltar as a noun and adjective
Gibraltarian describing the people
Gibraltan conspicuous by its abscence
A word, as Humpty Dumpty said - 'it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.' Wikipedia should use words in the way they are accepted in the context that is the subject of the article and not try and enforce a missconceived artificial usage which is not accepted in the territory in question. --
Gibnews (
talk)
14:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject British Overseas Territories, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
British Overseas Territories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.British Overseas TerritoriesWikipedia:WikiProject British Overseas TerritoriesTemplate:WikiProject British Overseas TerritoriesBritish Overseas Territories articles
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Gibraltar, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Gibraltar and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GibraltarWikipedia:WikiProject GibraltarTemplate:WikiProject GibraltarGibraltar articles
List of flags of Gibraltar is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks.Heraldry and vexillologyWikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyTemplate:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyheraldry and vexillology articles
Article title
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Perhaps you two could compromise and put the article at List of Gibraltarian Flags? That seems to be the adjective that's actually in use.
Orange Tuesday (
talk)
13:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)reply
As Gibnews pointed out the word 'Gibraltan' is not correct. Although it can be commonly used, it actually doesn't exist. The term
Gibraltarian, refers particularly to the people of Gibraltar. As strange as it may seem, Gibraltar is in fact the correct adjective. --
Gibmetal 77talk16:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)reply
I guess that would be a compromise, but the correct title would be List of Gibraltar flags. Just because the
Union flag is most commonly known as the Union Jack doesn't make it right... --
Gibmetal 77talk23:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)reply
To a Gibraltarian the title of this page sounds as stupid as 'List of Pommie flags'. Gibraltar is a word which can be a noun and an adjective. The Gibraltar telephone directory (2007) has three pages of double columns of entities starting at The Gibraltar Amateur Drama Association and ending with The Gibraltar Yacht registry there are NO entries for anything prefixed with Gibraltarian and the word Gibraltan is simply not in use in the territory, its considered gross. --
Gibnews (
talk)
Just because it may sound strange to some, doesn't mean we should give it a different name. List of Japan flags would most certainly not be correct, but List of Gibraltar flags is. --
Gibmetal 77talk16:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)reply
The word Gibraltan exists, and most laymen would probably be able to understand it as the adjective form of Gibraltar, but it's certainly not common. The word returns a scant few thousand hits on google, and is barely used on Wikipedia at all. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to be used officially. It doesn't show up anywhere on the Gibraltar government website, for example.
The word Gibraltarian sounds like an adjective for Gibraltar, and even gets used like it occasionally on Wikipedia (e.g.
Gibraltarian cuisine) and in certain dictionaries,
[1]. But the consensus among Gibraltarians appears to be that it's just a noun used to refer to the people of Gibraltar.
The word Gibraltar appears to be the official adjective form. The CIA World Factbook lists it as the adjective of the territory, but I'm not sure how common a usage it is outside of Gibraltar. Dictionary.com, for instance, doesn't seem to recognize that "Gibraltar" can be an adjective.
[2] Plus, as this whole debate has shown, it leads to confusion. The word sounds weird to people who don't know that it's an adjective, even though it's correct.
Therefore, I have to say that the easiest solution, one that would please everyone, would be to move the page to List of Flags of Gibraltar and have all the other versions redirect there. Not only is it exactly as correct as "List of Gibraltar flags", and more correct than "List of Gibraltarian flags" or "List of Gibraltan flags", but it offers no room for confusion at all. And it wouldn't even be special treatment or compromise for this page. Almost all of the Gibraltar-related pages on Wikipedia are at "X of Gibraltar" instead of "Gibraltar X", and there are many pages like this one that are at "List of flags of X" instead of "List of X flags". No one loses this way.
Orange Tuesday (
talk)
18:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Fair enough,
List of flags of Gibraltar would be "acceptable", whereas Gibraltarian or Gibraltan are definitely not. However, by using "Gibraltar" as the adjective on some pages on wikipedia, we would in a way minimise this confusion by giving this correct term more usage... --
Gibmetal 77talk19:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)reply
We would indeed, but we probably shouldn't, as such
promotion is contrary to Wikipedia policy. That's not to comment on whether the proposed move is a good idea, it's just to say that this particular reason has a problem.
Andrewa (
talk)
04:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Unlike French or Spanish there is no academy who determine the use of the English language, and online user contributed dictionararies are as reliable as their contributors. If you search the following authorative websites
You can see the context in which the words are used:
Gibraltar as a noun and adjective
Gibraltarian describing the people
Gibraltan conspicuous by its abscence
A word, as Humpty Dumpty said - 'it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.' Wikipedia should use words in the way they are accepted in the context that is the subject of the article and not try and enforce a missconceived artificial usage which is not accepted in the territory in question. --
Gibnews (
talk)
14:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.