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Hi - I have been tring to find any information on Macowards department store chain. I know that they had about 35 stores in the UK with stores in cardiff, Swansea and malvern amongst others. I also know that they were bought out by Jessel Securities, one of the big congolomerates of the 1960s and early 1970s. However Jessel's went bust in '75 and I cannot find any other records. Do anyone have some paper records that could help? Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 15:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi.. I would also like to find more information on Macowards. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Owen Owen took over some of their stores; Reynolds of Newport and Wades of Brighton I think were two of them. AndrewSE19 ( talk) 16:29, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello.. I have found some interesting information online refering to Macowards within 'records of Allied Maples Group' at Victoria & Albert Museum. Here is the link.. http://www.vam.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/252161/amg_aad_2000_03_20141020.pdf Though it is only a list of records held by the V&A, not the records themselves, I think it's interesting in itself as it begins to shed some light on which stores were part of the Macowards group and possibly when. Interestingly, some of the stores that appear here are the very same ones that later appear as Owen Owen stores.. i.e. Stringers, Reynolds, Wades etc. AndrewSE19 ( talk) 22:09, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Maples were bought by Macowards during the 70s - http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/29406405/agreed-bid-maples-comes-from-macowards which was owned by Jessels 1969 to 1974 when Jessels went bust. I have not found any actual link between Owen Owen and Macowards other than several stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:37, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the info and link. AndrewSE19 ( talk) 14:24, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Update. Found a Daily Mail article that mentions Maurice Lermon was the founder of Macowards, using a 10k loan from Lloyd's Bank to expand the business. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 12:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Frederick Gorringes was one of the big department stores of London and reportedly Queen Victoria's favourite, but there seems to be little written about them. The original notes on the list said bought by Whitelys, and then Selfridges in 1927. The only link I can find with Whitelys is at the National Archives in Kew, where there is some paperwork relating to Gorringes in the William Whitely archive. There seems to be no link with Selfridges, Harry or the Provincial Store group, and there is no mention of the store when the Provincial group was bought by John Lewis, including on their archive. Graces Guide says Hide & Co tried to buy the business in 51 but failed, then Grsham and Charles Neale Investments bought the store in Jan 61 and sold it in Mar 61 to R H O Hills of Blackpool. Grace Guide quotes The Times and year but nothing else. The only Times archive I have found so far is Gorringes administration in 68. R H O Hills is linked as there name appears in the William Whitely archive at Kew (again no idea of the link), but on the House of Fraser archive there is no mention on the R H O Hills page (of either Gorringes or Whitelys), or under Hide & Co her bought Hills in 1965. Gresham Trust Ltd & Charles Neale Investments Ltd do appear as capital holders in Fregor Holdings Ltd, name change for Frederick Gorringes Ltd in 1961, which was voluntary liquidated on 12 Aug 1964 but had final meeting in 1968 (Register of Defunct Companies, 1990 pg. 194 [10]) I found the times article from 1968 about administration (against Gorringes on list). The Guardian reported the takeover dealing on 6 Jan 1961 page 11
"Gorringe's sale Yesterday's act in the Gorringe affair is funnier than most of the material used by the Crazy Gang at the nearby Victoria Palace Theatre. If, that is, it were not so serious. In a letter Mr C. K. Rudkin-Jones informs the Gorringe chairman that he will not now make an offer for the store company's capital. The day before he said he would and as the indication then was that the terms would be better than the cash bids made by Gresham and Charles Neale Investments, the price of Gorringe ordinary yesterday shot up to 98s and the preference Jto 25s. The Gresham-Neale terms are 92s for the ordinary and 22s 6d for the preference. Mr Rudkin-Jones's letter is worth quoting : " I regret . . . that due to new circumstances which have arisen since our meeting yesterday the intention which I then intimated to you on behalf of my company is no longer subsisting. I hope you will accept my assurance that at the time such intention was stated in the view of myself and my advisers I was then in a position to express such intention and that my action was therefore a responsible one." Apart from the use of less tortuous language, this letter would be satisfactory only if the " new circumstances " now subsisting were explained. Perhaps the finance was withdrawn. A certain sympathy is owing to Colonel Crisp, the chairman of Gorringe, who probably has tennis umpire's neck from watching bids and promises of bids flash from side to side. The Gorringe board will now circulate its views on the Gresham-Neale offer. It can hardly do otherwise than recommend it. The offer, already made unconditional in respect of acceptances despatched, is formally open until January 13."
But that is it. Nothing else. Any help is greatly welcomed. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 08:30, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have found another source but can't see it as I don't have a bna subscription. Published: Thursday 05 January 1961 Newspaper: Belfast Telegraph County: Antrim, Northern Ireland - preview is about takeover - mentions MR. C. K. RUDKIN Jones is a director of Blackett. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
There are three further Times sources behind the archive firewall which I don't have a paid membership too. One is about the takeover fight, the other after wards, and one about Gresham investment (from small Google clip) Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:39, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have no concurred that the Whitelyleys connection was adding 1 + 1 =3 by an editor, as the national archive for William Whiteleys had Gorringes, RHO Hills and West & Moulton paperwork. However the archive states it does not know the connection, it says RHO Hills bought West & Moulton. In addition the Daily Herald of 21 September 1961 William Whiteley, the Bayswater store, tumbled further to 40s. the breakdown take-over talks with bidder R. H. O. HILLS. (BNA preview) In other words Whiteley did not own RHO Hills, they were trying to buy Whiteleys and lost to eventual buyers United Drapery Stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:10, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
In addition the 1968 PhD thesis by James Bruce Tabb at the Uni of Sheffield entitled Accountancy aspects of the take-over bids in Britain 1945 to 1965 show that Army & Navy also bid (Times 25/11/1960 pg. 19), that Gorringes was purchased by Gresham Trust and Charles Neale Investments as they believed the office developments in Victoria would increase the value of the business. There is a anomaly, as the thesis says West and Moultons name was changed to Gorringes Department Store Ltd in 1966 (SEYB 1966 p. 3378). I confirms that Gorringes was purchased by Gresham, and that in 65 it was a subsidiary of Bingham Investment Trust. There is also mention of a 1951 bid by Gorringes to buy Hide & Co. (Times 1/11/51 p. 10). Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:29, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have now confirmed that RHO Hills was a separate Group of Stores, still no evidence of Gorringes. They did own West & Moulton but sold it to Lewis in 1962 who re-branded it Selfridges! Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:42, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
There may be a link between Gorringes and R H O Hills. Leslie Goldberg was the chair of both businesses. Not sure if same person. Publication:The Boston Globe iLocation:Boston, MassachusettsIssue Date:Wednesday, July 6, 1966 ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/433812039/) and Publication:The Guardian iLocation:London, Greater London, EnglandIssue Date:Thursday, August 30, 1962 ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259802412/) Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 16:04, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Found in 1975 the business was owned by United Drapery Services [2] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 20:15, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
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Hide and co is another company difficult to find refs for. The best I have found (the house of fraser archive has very little) is the official government report https://archive.org/stream/op1265678-1001/op1265678-1001_djvu.txt Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 15:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have found and added the origins of Hide and Co, though only a small snippet from Natwests history of all places. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 12:33, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
This company seems to be more than just a branch in Blackpool, and West & Moulton in Ilford for a while. Graces Guide says it purchased Gorringes, London in 1961. Can't find any other ref, but a Leslie Goldberg was chairman of R H O Hills, and there was also a Leslie Louis Goldberg as chair of Gorringes after the 1961 bidding war for Gorringes. In addition R H O Hills were listed as operating 4 department stores in the article in Kingston Gleaner Newspaper Archives April 05, 1962 Page 13 ( https://newspaperarchive.com/kingston-gleaner-apr-05-1962-p-13/). The same article also mentions Hills were based in High Holborn, WC1, and they were trying to develop Shopping World a 12 acre shopping centre off Watford High Street, which would include a Hills subsidiary store. This is also confirmed in City and Region: A Geographical Interpretation By Robert E. Dickinson. The planning for was rejected in 1962 ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259788765/) in The Guardian article Permission refused pg. 10 Thursday, August 2, 1962. In 1965 a High Court judge gave Benskins Brewery the right to rescind the contract to sell Hills the land to build the shopping centre. ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259662946/) The Guardian Land agreement was validly rescinded pg. 13 15 December 1965.
If anyone can help with who the stores were thanks. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 18:15, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Confirmed that will Blackpool, Moultons in Ilford, the chain had another store in Ilford which they kept, and one in Penge.( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259802412/) The Guardian pg. 10 Thursday, August 30, 1962 Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 18:25, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Recently discovered that Penge had 4 department stores: Co-op, P N Rogers, Bryce Grant and Dupont. Bryce Grant and P N Rogers were in business together as per refs I have added to them, and were taken over by Walter Cobb in the 40s before being shut down, and the store then being owned by H E Olby then Erdingtons. None of these seem to have a link to R H O Hills, and I can't find much on Dupont at all except from a 1957 edition of Leathergoods magazine, so no closer to knowing who this store was. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 10:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Removed winchester from House of Fraser former branches. Said formerly Chiesmans. Searching the Internet only can find Debenhams in city, and no ref of Hof of Chiesmans. There was a drapers DC Edmonds & Son at 106-107 High Street, whose archives were deposited with Hampshire Archives and Local Studies, https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F187837, with an end date of 1975. This may have been the site, as former Hide & Co businesses seem to have deposited their records at the same time, which is when hof took over Hides, and were all converted to Chiesmans or closed. I cannot find any link between Hide and DC Edmonds. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 14:53, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
I found the following picture uploaded to Pinterest which is for Falcon Road Drapery Store on the corner of Falcon Road and Battersea Park Road, with proprietor name of Hunt & Cole: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/196610339961553255/.
The picture is dated 1909. There is a further picture here dated 1920: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/rppc-falcon-road-drapery-stores-hunt-462920206
I can't find any further info, other than the second Arding & Hobbs store was on a corner of the same roads - http://stories-of-london.org/arding-hobbs-8/. If anyone could help with any further information it would be most appreciated. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 06:50, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
AndrewSE19 ( talk) 10:01, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
When I found a picture of oxleys on the net, after further investigation I found they were owned by Canadian and English Stores, a company created in 1951. In the statist issue 175 page 550, it states it had purchased further department stores from Provident Clothing and Supply. I can't find any further info, as Provident history on the net is more about its financial products (it still exists). Any help on either company and stores they owned will be helpful? Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 05:38, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Canadian and english stores became Northgate and English stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 05:50, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Further investigation found that Northgate and English retail operations became Combined English Stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 05:56, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
In the new dawn 1963 edition page 422, it states C&e bought out the Northgate Group in 1962 and changed its name. It owned several department stores, but as its snippet view I can only see a few bits. I can also see a court case in 1969 against Northgate and English by Austin securities which looks like they lost, which created Combined English Stores. Their chairman was a Murray Gordon, which the Fashion Handbook 2004 had him in the same league as Charles Clore and Isaac Wolf's on, but not much else I can find. Some stuff in spectator but I don't have access. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:16, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Further reading of comments on the Londonist page about Lost department stores of London, and taking the preview from New Dawn, it looks like Provident sold the following in 1961:
They went onto buy further stores 6 months later, though not identified, in Birmingham, Croydon, Pontypool, Poole, portsmouth and Burton-upon-Trent. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:33, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Canadian and english 11th annual meeting recorded in the guardian stated they had purchased 10 department stores (probably the Provident stores) and Brown's of Clayton Square, Liverpool. https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259769433/ The Guardian from London, Greater London, England Thursday, June 28, 1962Page:13. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 19:20, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Canadian bought 2 BB Evans stores from Tesco in 1962 but can't find what the other store was than Kilburn? [1] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 19:54, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
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While doing research have found John Blundell in Newcastle , previously Howards. Blundells was one of the founders of UDS that I can find, and they seem to either be furniture stores or cash drapers. So far found Newcastle, Ipswich and Bristol but believe there are further stores (Devon, Birmingham) but not sure if they were department stores or just furniture stores. On addition, Blundells purchased a further cash drapers called Lawsons, a Scottish firm, that had stores in at least Dundee and Hammersmith, but not sure if these were department stores or just drapers. Evidence is mostly on chat rooms. Any help please. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 16:39, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
I have just added Keightleys. Very little available online. Main store was in on two sites in Boston, with department stores in Spalding and Wisbech, but with an outfitters store in Sleaford [14] and possibly an ironmonger store elsewhere. They are mentioned as part of Allued Maples in V&A Archive but not much else. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 17:38, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi. Reading the book by Dee Gordon called Southend Memories, one of her interviewers said she worked for Thomas Brothers department store on the corner of Southchurch road and Chichester Road, which closed in 1964 and moved to Hadleigh. I can find Thomas Bros. (Southend on Sea) Ltd on a list of companies but that's it. The building is very grand and looks like a department store/drapers. Any help would be great. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 11:18, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
I have now found a picture from Southchurch Road, which shows Thomas Bros the opposite side of the street to the description given in the book [15] and Southend Timeline has them a a drapers [16] though only at 23/25 Southchurch Road, while the picture shows they are at 29 too. I have left for the time being as not sure if it was or was not a department store. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 19:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
Hi. Looking into the store that existed in Walton on Thames, i found that this was a diversification plan by Booker Group (refs on page) to move into department stores and furniture stores. I cannot see in the web snippet who the Richmond store was previously, other thsn it was on George Street (though I can only find record for Goslings & Wright Bros who were connected to other firms), and I can't find anything against Ilford (West & Moultons were part of RHO Hills, with Moultons being sold to Selfridges at some point and it wasnt Harrison Gibson, nor Burnes which was Chiesmans), while I think Walton was a store from scratch. Only one i can find is Chart & Lawrence, though only purchase of, snd the store closed in 1999 so must have been sold?Unfortunately Campbell & Booker was one of the company names which was used for various Booker business across the globe. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 14:37, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
In the 1973 The Stock Exchange Official Year-book, on page 2466 it lists Crowden & Keeves in the Department Store group section along with other recognisable names. I can't find anything online other than they were manufacturers of brushes, pots and pans, and they were wholesalers in Boundary Street Shoreditch which had an electrical and radio department. [17] [18] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 14:17, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
This one came up in the same 1973 list of department store groups that had Crowden & Keeves. I had always thought that this was Wylie snd Lochead, which became part of HoF in the 50s. However it appears not! They were linked, as Robert Wylie Hill's uncle was a Lochead. The store was based at 20 Buchanan Street [19], which w&l was at 37. Also it mentions both in the same paragraph in Lost Glasgow [20]. Not sure other than Bows Emporium they operated, as can't find anything else other than the business was purchased by John Menzies in 1974. [21] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 16:54, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi found a thesis by M E Cleasby from 1983 about takeovers in industry and it had a list of department store proprietors. On that list he had the following:
This company moved from Holborn Circus to Oxford Street after the store was destroyed by fire in the Blitz. The document referenced quotes 454 to 556 Oxford street, but this does not seem right. I have found a picture at the corner of Oxford Street and Marble Arch. Can't find any info on Streatham or Newbury store, Guildford opened 1959 don't think it was another company's previously. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 20:48, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
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Hi - I have been tring to find any information on Macowards department store chain. I know that they had about 35 stores in the UK with stores in cardiff, Swansea and malvern amongst others. I also know that they were bought out by Jessel Securities, one of the big congolomerates of the 1960s and early 1970s. However Jessel's went bust in '75 and I cannot find any other records. Do anyone have some paper records that could help? Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 15:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi.. I would also like to find more information on Macowards. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Owen Owen took over some of their stores; Reynolds of Newport and Wades of Brighton I think were two of them. AndrewSE19 ( talk) 16:29, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello.. I have found some interesting information online refering to Macowards within 'records of Allied Maples Group' at Victoria & Albert Museum. Here is the link.. http://www.vam.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/252161/amg_aad_2000_03_20141020.pdf Though it is only a list of records held by the V&A, not the records themselves, I think it's interesting in itself as it begins to shed some light on which stores were part of the Macowards group and possibly when. Interestingly, some of the stores that appear here are the very same ones that later appear as Owen Owen stores.. i.e. Stringers, Reynolds, Wades etc. AndrewSE19 ( talk) 22:09, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Maples were bought by Macowards during the 70s - http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/29406405/agreed-bid-maples-comes-from-macowards which was owned by Jessels 1969 to 1974 when Jessels went bust. I have not found any actual link between Owen Owen and Macowards other than several stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:37, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the info and link. AndrewSE19 ( talk) 14:24, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Update. Found a Daily Mail article that mentions Maurice Lermon was the founder of Macowards, using a 10k loan from Lloyd's Bank to expand the business. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 12:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Frederick Gorringes was one of the big department stores of London and reportedly Queen Victoria's favourite, but there seems to be little written about them. The original notes on the list said bought by Whitelys, and then Selfridges in 1927. The only link I can find with Whitelys is at the National Archives in Kew, where there is some paperwork relating to Gorringes in the William Whitely archive. There seems to be no link with Selfridges, Harry or the Provincial Store group, and there is no mention of the store when the Provincial group was bought by John Lewis, including on their archive. Graces Guide says Hide & Co tried to buy the business in 51 but failed, then Grsham and Charles Neale Investments bought the store in Jan 61 and sold it in Mar 61 to R H O Hills of Blackpool. Grace Guide quotes The Times and year but nothing else. The only Times archive I have found so far is Gorringes administration in 68. R H O Hills is linked as there name appears in the William Whitely archive at Kew (again no idea of the link), but on the House of Fraser archive there is no mention on the R H O Hills page (of either Gorringes or Whitelys), or under Hide & Co her bought Hills in 1965. Gresham Trust Ltd & Charles Neale Investments Ltd do appear as capital holders in Fregor Holdings Ltd, name change for Frederick Gorringes Ltd in 1961, which was voluntary liquidated on 12 Aug 1964 but had final meeting in 1968 (Register of Defunct Companies, 1990 pg. 194 [10]) I found the times article from 1968 about administration (against Gorringes on list). The Guardian reported the takeover dealing on 6 Jan 1961 page 11
"Gorringe's sale Yesterday's act in the Gorringe affair is funnier than most of the material used by the Crazy Gang at the nearby Victoria Palace Theatre. If, that is, it were not so serious. In a letter Mr C. K. Rudkin-Jones informs the Gorringe chairman that he will not now make an offer for the store company's capital. The day before he said he would and as the indication then was that the terms would be better than the cash bids made by Gresham and Charles Neale Investments, the price of Gorringe ordinary yesterday shot up to 98s and the preference Jto 25s. The Gresham-Neale terms are 92s for the ordinary and 22s 6d for the preference. Mr Rudkin-Jones's letter is worth quoting : " I regret . . . that due to new circumstances which have arisen since our meeting yesterday the intention which I then intimated to you on behalf of my company is no longer subsisting. I hope you will accept my assurance that at the time such intention was stated in the view of myself and my advisers I was then in a position to express such intention and that my action was therefore a responsible one." Apart from the use of less tortuous language, this letter would be satisfactory only if the " new circumstances " now subsisting were explained. Perhaps the finance was withdrawn. A certain sympathy is owing to Colonel Crisp, the chairman of Gorringe, who probably has tennis umpire's neck from watching bids and promises of bids flash from side to side. The Gorringe board will now circulate its views on the Gresham-Neale offer. It can hardly do otherwise than recommend it. The offer, already made unconditional in respect of acceptances despatched, is formally open until January 13."
But that is it. Nothing else. Any help is greatly welcomed. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 08:30, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have found another source but can't see it as I don't have a bna subscription. Published: Thursday 05 January 1961 Newspaper: Belfast Telegraph County: Antrim, Northern Ireland - preview is about takeover - mentions MR. C. K. RUDKIN Jones is a director of Blackett. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
There are three further Times sources behind the archive firewall which I don't have a paid membership too. One is about the takeover fight, the other after wards, and one about Gresham investment (from small Google clip) Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:39, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have no concurred that the Whitelyleys connection was adding 1 + 1 =3 by an editor, as the national archive for William Whiteleys had Gorringes, RHO Hills and West & Moulton paperwork. However the archive states it does not know the connection, it says RHO Hills bought West & Moulton. In addition the Daily Herald of 21 September 1961 William Whiteley, the Bayswater store, tumbled further to 40s. the breakdown take-over talks with bidder R. H. O. HILLS. (BNA preview) In other words Whiteley did not own RHO Hills, they were trying to buy Whiteleys and lost to eventual buyers United Drapery Stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:10, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
In addition the 1968 PhD thesis by James Bruce Tabb at the Uni of Sheffield entitled Accountancy aspects of the take-over bids in Britain 1945 to 1965 show that Army & Navy also bid (Times 25/11/1960 pg. 19), that Gorringes was purchased by Gresham Trust and Charles Neale Investments as they believed the office developments in Victoria would increase the value of the business. There is a anomaly, as the thesis says West and Moultons name was changed to Gorringes Department Store Ltd in 1966 (SEYB 1966 p. 3378). I confirms that Gorringes was purchased by Gresham, and that in 65 it was a subsidiary of Bingham Investment Trust. There is also mention of a 1951 bid by Gorringes to buy Hide & Co. (Times 1/11/51 p. 10). Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:29, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have now confirmed that RHO Hills was a separate Group of Stores, still no evidence of Gorringes. They did own West & Moulton but sold it to Lewis in 1962 who re-branded it Selfridges! Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 13:42, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
There may be a link between Gorringes and R H O Hills. Leslie Goldberg was the chair of both businesses. Not sure if same person. Publication:The Boston Globe iLocation:Boston, MassachusettsIssue Date:Wednesday, July 6, 1966 ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/433812039/) and Publication:The Guardian iLocation:London, Greater London, EnglandIssue Date:Thursday, August 30, 1962 ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259802412/) Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 16:04, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Found in 1975 the business was owned by United Drapery Services [2] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 20:15, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
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Hide and co is another company difficult to find refs for. The best I have found (the house of fraser archive has very little) is the official government report https://archive.org/stream/op1265678-1001/op1265678-1001_djvu.txt Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 15:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
I have found and added the origins of Hide and Co, though only a small snippet from Natwests history of all places. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 12:33, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
This company seems to be more than just a branch in Blackpool, and West & Moulton in Ilford for a while. Graces Guide says it purchased Gorringes, London in 1961. Can't find any other ref, but a Leslie Goldberg was chairman of R H O Hills, and there was also a Leslie Louis Goldberg as chair of Gorringes after the 1961 bidding war for Gorringes. In addition R H O Hills were listed as operating 4 department stores in the article in Kingston Gleaner Newspaper Archives April 05, 1962 Page 13 ( https://newspaperarchive.com/kingston-gleaner-apr-05-1962-p-13/). The same article also mentions Hills were based in High Holborn, WC1, and they were trying to develop Shopping World a 12 acre shopping centre off Watford High Street, which would include a Hills subsidiary store. This is also confirmed in City and Region: A Geographical Interpretation By Robert E. Dickinson. The planning for was rejected in 1962 ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259788765/) in The Guardian article Permission refused pg. 10 Thursday, August 2, 1962. In 1965 a High Court judge gave Benskins Brewery the right to rescind the contract to sell Hills the land to build the shopping centre. ( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259662946/) The Guardian Land agreement was validly rescinded pg. 13 15 December 1965.
If anyone can help with who the stores were thanks. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 18:15, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Confirmed that will Blackpool, Moultons in Ilford, the chain had another store in Ilford which they kept, and one in Penge.( https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259802412/) The Guardian pg. 10 Thursday, August 30, 1962 Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 18:25, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Recently discovered that Penge had 4 department stores: Co-op, P N Rogers, Bryce Grant and Dupont. Bryce Grant and P N Rogers were in business together as per refs I have added to them, and were taken over by Walter Cobb in the 40s before being shut down, and the store then being owned by H E Olby then Erdingtons. None of these seem to have a link to R H O Hills, and I can't find much on Dupont at all except from a 1957 edition of Leathergoods magazine, so no closer to knowing who this store was. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 10:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Removed winchester from House of Fraser former branches. Said formerly Chiesmans. Searching the Internet only can find Debenhams in city, and no ref of Hof of Chiesmans. There was a drapers DC Edmonds & Son at 106-107 High Street, whose archives were deposited with Hampshire Archives and Local Studies, https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F187837, with an end date of 1975. This may have been the site, as former Hide & Co businesses seem to have deposited their records at the same time, which is when hof took over Hides, and were all converted to Chiesmans or closed. I cannot find any link between Hide and DC Edmonds. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 14:53, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
I found the following picture uploaded to Pinterest which is for Falcon Road Drapery Store on the corner of Falcon Road and Battersea Park Road, with proprietor name of Hunt & Cole: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/196610339961553255/.
The picture is dated 1909. There is a further picture here dated 1920: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/rppc-falcon-road-drapery-stores-hunt-462920206
I can't find any further info, other than the second Arding & Hobbs store was on a corner of the same roads - http://stories-of-london.org/arding-hobbs-8/. If anyone could help with any further information it would be most appreciated. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 06:50, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
AndrewSE19 ( talk) 10:01, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
When I found a picture of oxleys on the net, after further investigation I found they were owned by Canadian and English Stores, a company created in 1951. In the statist issue 175 page 550, it states it had purchased further department stores from Provident Clothing and Supply. I can't find any further info, as Provident history on the net is more about its financial products (it still exists). Any help on either company and stores they owned will be helpful? Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 05:38, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Canadian and english stores became Northgate and English stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 05:50, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Further investigation found that Northgate and English retail operations became Combined English Stores. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 05:56, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
In the new dawn 1963 edition page 422, it states C&e bought out the Northgate Group in 1962 and changed its name. It owned several department stores, but as its snippet view I can only see a few bits. I can also see a court case in 1969 against Northgate and English by Austin securities which looks like they lost, which created Combined English Stores. Their chairman was a Murray Gordon, which the Fashion Handbook 2004 had him in the same league as Charles Clore and Isaac Wolf's on, but not much else I can find. Some stuff in spectator but I don't have access. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:16, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Further reading of comments on the Londonist page about Lost department stores of London, and taking the preview from New Dawn, it looks like Provident sold the following in 1961:
They went onto buy further stores 6 months later, though not identified, in Birmingham, Croydon, Pontypool, Poole, portsmouth and Burton-upon-Trent. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 09:33, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Canadian and english 11th annual meeting recorded in the guardian stated they had purchased 10 department stores (probably the Provident stores) and Brown's of Clayton Square, Liverpool. https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/259769433/ The Guardian from London, Greater London, England Thursday, June 28, 1962Page:13. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 19:20, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Canadian bought 2 BB Evans stores from Tesco in 1962 but can't find what the other store was than Kilburn? [1] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 19:54, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
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While doing research have found John Blundell in Newcastle , previously Howards. Blundells was one of the founders of UDS that I can find, and they seem to either be furniture stores or cash drapers. So far found Newcastle, Ipswich and Bristol but believe there are further stores (Devon, Birmingham) but not sure if they were department stores or just furniture stores. On addition, Blundells purchased a further cash drapers called Lawsons, a Scottish firm, that had stores in at least Dundee and Hammersmith, but not sure if these were department stores or just drapers. Evidence is mostly on chat rooms. Any help please. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 16:39, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
I have just added Keightleys. Very little available online. Main store was in on two sites in Boston, with department stores in Spalding and Wisbech, but with an outfitters store in Sleaford [14] and possibly an ironmonger store elsewhere. They are mentioned as part of Allued Maples in V&A Archive but not much else. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 17:38, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi. Reading the book by Dee Gordon called Southend Memories, one of her interviewers said she worked for Thomas Brothers department store on the corner of Southchurch road and Chichester Road, which closed in 1964 and moved to Hadleigh. I can find Thomas Bros. (Southend on Sea) Ltd on a list of companies but that's it. The building is very grand and looks like a department store/drapers. Any help would be great. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 11:18, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
I have now found a picture from Southchurch Road, which shows Thomas Bros the opposite side of the street to the description given in the book [15] and Southend Timeline has them a a drapers [16] though only at 23/25 Southchurch Road, while the picture shows they are at 29 too. I have left for the time being as not sure if it was or was not a department store. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 19:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
Hi. Looking into the store that existed in Walton on Thames, i found that this was a diversification plan by Booker Group (refs on page) to move into department stores and furniture stores. I cannot see in the web snippet who the Richmond store was previously, other thsn it was on George Street (though I can only find record for Goslings & Wright Bros who were connected to other firms), and I can't find anything against Ilford (West & Moultons were part of RHO Hills, with Moultons being sold to Selfridges at some point and it wasnt Harrison Gibson, nor Burnes which was Chiesmans), while I think Walton was a store from scratch. Only one i can find is Chart & Lawrence, though only purchase of, snd the store closed in 1999 so must have been sold?Unfortunately Campbell & Booker was one of the company names which was used for various Booker business across the globe. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 14:37, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
In the 1973 The Stock Exchange Official Year-book, on page 2466 it lists Crowden & Keeves in the Department Store group section along with other recognisable names. I can't find anything online other than they were manufacturers of brushes, pots and pans, and they were wholesalers in Boundary Street Shoreditch which had an electrical and radio department. [17] [18] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 14:17, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
This one came up in the same 1973 list of department store groups that had Crowden & Keeves. I had always thought that this was Wylie snd Lochead, which became part of HoF in the 50s. However it appears not! They were linked, as Robert Wylie Hill's uncle was a Lochead. The store was based at 20 Buchanan Street [19], which w&l was at 37. Also it mentions both in the same paragraph in Lost Glasgow [20]. Not sure other than Bows Emporium they operated, as can't find anything else other than the business was purchased by John Menzies in 1974. [21] Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 16:54, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi found a thesis by M E Cleasby from 1983 about takeovers in industry and it had a list of department store proprietors. On that list he had the following:
This company moved from Holborn Circus to Oxford Street after the store was destroyed by fire in the Blitz. The document referenced quotes 454 to 556 Oxford street, but this does not seem right. I have found a picture at the corner of Oxford Street and Marble Arch. Can't find any info on Streatham or Newbury store, Guildford opened 1959 don't think it was another company's previously. Davidstewartharvey ( talk) 20:48, 3 May 2023 (UTC)