![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
This is kind of misleading, in that it's a list of current Senators, correct? Is there a plan to add articles about past Senators? -- Zoe —Preceding undated comment added 11 May 2003
How about adding party affiliations? Not all Senators belong to the same party as the PM who appointed them.
Top 10 senators set to retire:
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Earl Andrew ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Formeruser-81 ( talk • contribs) 15 January 2005
Is "seniority" really the most effective way to organize this list? Shouldn't it be in either alphabetical order or grouped by caucus? Bearcat 18:38, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
How about in future we not remove Senators from this list until they have in fact retired. Senator Ferretti Barth did not retire until today (April 28), but she was removed yesterday despite the fact she was still a sitting Senator until midnight last night. PoliSciMaster 17:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
It's good, I just noticed a few things you might want to change. Hope they're helpful:
-- Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 03:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I have noticed that someone has been attempting to update this list to reflect the new appointments, yet someone else keeps reverting these changes and referring to a separate list for the 2008 appointments, ostensibly because these appointments have not been approved by the Governor General. This is quite simply false. All 18 appointments are official, and they are now reflected on the Parliamentary website, both in the overall standings, and in the list of current senators and their biographies. The 18 should be incorporated into the main list. PoliSciMaster ( talk) 19:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Patrick Brazeau, Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis and Leo Housakos have been removed from the list of Senators at the Senate website. Does anyone know if there is a reason for this, or is it just a glitch? -- Scorpion 0422 19:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Last year, as those who follow this page remember, the Senate's website listed the 18 new senators with a "nomination" date of December 22, 2008. We followed that date here. Later, the Senate changed the dates to January 2, 2009, for 15, January 8 for two, and January 14 for one. At this appointment, the Senate did the same thing. I for one see no reason to be bitten twice. As far as we know, the only significance of August 27, 2009, is that that is the date the PM publicly announced the appointments. Each and every other senator listed has a date of appointment in this article reflecting the date of his or her summons, not the date the appointment was announced. As such, there is no reason, as an IP editor insists on doing, to use the August 27th date. A note that the appointment is pending sufficient until we have confirmation of the actual appointment date. - Rrius ( talk) 04:23, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Sophistry. Last thing first. Yes, that is speculation, but I never intended to put in the article. Rather it is a possible explanation of why the Senate staffers do what they do. Which brings us to the other point. We don't list things in Wikipedia based on "we don't know it didn't happen". We do know that From December 22, 2008, to approximately January 16, 2009, the Senate website listed "December 22, 2008" as the date of appointment for the 18 senators Harper announced he would appoint on that date. We know that from approximately January 16, 2009, on, the site has listed January 2 for 15 of them, January 8 for 2, and January 14 for 1. We know those dates are the dates on their summonses. We know that on August 27, 2009, the PM announced nine more senators. We know that on August 27, 2009, the Senate website put up the nine announced new senators with the date "August 27, 2009". We know that the Senate site listed incorrect dates in December and January and appears to be doing the same now. We CANNOT know that August 27, 2009, is the date of appointment for the new senators because. Until we know a date, it is inappropriate to list one. In the interim, if "pending" offends, simply leaving the space blank or using punctuation (such as an em dash or a few asterisks) would also do the job. - Rrius ( talk) 23:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I demand some help for to put on the table the 5 new senators named by Stephen Harper. I change the number of senator inside the Senate of Canada article.-- Fredoues ( talk) 06:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
According to the Canada Gazette, [1] Vern White has already been summoned. The media reports said his appointment was effective February 20, but the normal practice when a new senator wants to take up a seat after a delay is to simply give the summons at a later date rather than to make the summons effective at a later date on its own terms. So it seems more likely to me that the summons was issued on Jan 6 in the normal way, but White is choosing to wait until Feb 20 to show up to take the oath. I'm putting him in the main list with a ref to the Gazette for the Jan 6 date, and I'll make the appropriate changes elsewhere. If it turns out the Gazette is just wrong, I'll take responsibility for fixing things up. - Rrius ( talk) 04:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Political parties and politicians in Canada#Liberal senators' designation. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 18:38, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
As more "Independent" Senators are appointed, and many incumbent Senators (even those appointed by Conservative PMs) reclassify themselves as "independent", would it be helpful to colour the PM field red or blue and track standings of how many were appointed by PMs from each party? Eventually we'll get to a situation where it is very difficult to tell at a glance where the balance of power lies within the chamber (and on what future date it will shift). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.58.49.102 ( talk) 11:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
I have made this change, and now thinking we should go one further and track standings by the party pf the PM that appointed each Senator. -- Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk) 10:58, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
According to the Canada Gazette, Senator Peter Harder was summoned "to the Senate of Canada, by letters patent under the Great Seal of Canada bearing date of March 23, 2016" Source: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-09/html/notice-avis-eng.php#nb4
However, the date at the bottom of the notice was April 1, 2016.
Should we use the Gazette as the authoritative source for Senate Appointments? Which date to use for his appointment? March 23 or April 1? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.58.49.102 ( talk) 13:15, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
The Canada Gazette just updated with the the appointment dates for the new Senators here: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-16/html/notice-avis-eng.php#ne2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk • contribs) 12:51, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
From the Canada Gazette at http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-16/html/notice-avis-eng.php#ne2 :
"His Excellency the Governor General has been pleased to summon to the Senate of Canada, by letters patent under the Great Seal of Canada bearing date of March 23, 2016:..." (List of 6 new Senators)
The Canada Gazette is the official newspaper of the Government of Canada. Publication in the Gazette is considered official notice to all Canadians. Peter Harder's appointment is here: http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-09/html/notice-avis-eng.php#nb4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk • contribs) 13:49, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
Can this list be merged with the "List of current Senators of Canada by age"? Much of the information is redundant between the 2 lists, and that one is not being updated as often (for example, the most recent appointments have not been added). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk • contribs) 12:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Sorting by retirements dates allows you to see which seats are going to open up this year, except that several senators have announced dates earlier than mandatory retirement date. I have retitled the column, and adjusted the one that I know about (Senator Wallace) adding relevant information to the notes column. Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wallace-retiring-1.3894845 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.75.166 ( talk) 15:38, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
As more appointments are made to the "Independent Senators Group" and Senators join the "non-affiliated" group, it will be more and more difficult to see at a glance how the balance of power will be changing in the senate based on upcoming retirements. For this reason I have colourized the Prime Minister column to show the partisan affiliation of the PM that appointed recommended the appointment of each Senator. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
198.103.152.52 (
talk)
20:04, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Most, maybe not all, of the senators Harper appointed promised to resign after, I think it was it 8 years. I would like to see a list of those he appointed under this promise showing who has resigned and who has stayed beyond their promised retirement date. KenWalker | Talk 04:11, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Here are some sources: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/08/27/news/why-harper-corrupted-senate https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/two-conservative-senators-have-their-own-reform-plan-quit-before-mandatory-retirement-at-75 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/fortiers-senate-appointment-confirmed/article20409019/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-to-revive-senate-reform-plan/article4303014/ https://www.macleans.ca/politics/after-appointing-56-unelected-senators-stephen-harper-decides-hes-done/ https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2009/08/27/harper_appoints_9_to_senate.html https://www.hilltimes.com/2017/07/19/tory-term-limits-myth-say-senators-promise-never-made/114026 https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/12/13/john-wallace-senate_n_13615308.html https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wallace-retiring-1.3894845
Now that Senator Downe left the PSG group, it lost official status.
According to the official Senate page available here: [6] the Senators of the former PSG are now non-affiliated.
I don't see a reason why we should list the PSG here at the moment. Maybe this group will achieve official status again in the future or not - who knows. But as it stands, the official source for Senate membership, namely their official website, lists the senators as non-affiliated and I think we should follow that convention and remove reference to the PSG. It can of course be mentioned in the opening paragraphs, but using the PSG in the actual list is not appropriate in my opinion.
However, before I go into an edit spree, I wanted to see what other people think of this. -- DeCoolRuler ( talk) 05:18, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Merge Proposal and / or
Redirect.
Please do not modify it.
The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of
List of current senators of Canada by age into this talk page's article was:
I propose to merge List of current senators of Canada by age into List of current senators of Canada. I think that the content in the List of current senators of Canada by age list article can easily be explained in the context of the List of current senators of Canada list article, and the List of current senators of Canada article is of a reasonable size that the merging of List of current senators of Canada by age will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned.
Moreover, there are times when the less frequently updated List of current senators of Canada by age list article is not "in sync" with the List of current senators of Canada list article, which causes a mismatch in the accuracy of information.
The only columns List of current senators of Canada by age has that List of current senators of Canada does not are the Date of birth, Length of Senate term to date, and Days until retirement columns—all of which could be migrated to the merged wikitable; however, we may wish to discuss if one of those columns is mildly CRUFTy.
At the end of the day, it will be much more efficient only have to update one list article of current Canadian senators.
@ MikkelJSmith2, Kawnhr, GoodDay, Bearcat, Arctic.gnome, and SMcCandlish: Friendly pings to fellow Canadian Wikipedians who regularly or occasionally edit related Senate of Canada articles or these two list articles.
Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
A copy of this template can be found here.
Hi GoodDay, Kawnhr, or MikkelJSmith2,
I've updated most pages following Senator Day's retirement effective January 24, 2020; however, still to come are the "Appointment breakdown" chart at List of current senators of Canada, which seems kind of like a pain in the butt to reconcile by which Prime Minister appointed the Senator. If it only needs Joseph A. Day's number to be reflected, then it's pretty good.
As to Template:43rd Canada Senate standings change, I'm not that great with adding new column headers to wikitables. Is there an easier way? Rather than fudge it up, I'll leave it for you. ;)
Thanks,
--
Doug Mehus
T·
C
19:49, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
I updated several tables regarding the resignation of Grant Mitchell and the switch of Patricia Bovey, but when I got to the appointment breakdown by prime minister I noticed that this table seems to not have been updated for a while since it says 100 total senators, but there currently are only 96. Would someone know how to easily fix the numbers without having to calculate from scratch? Maybe someone know when the last update of that table happened? -- DeCoolRuler ( talk) 23:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
This is kind of misleading, in that it's a list of current Senators, correct? Is there a plan to add articles about past Senators? -- Zoe —Preceding undated comment added 11 May 2003
How about adding party affiliations? Not all Senators belong to the same party as the PM who appointed them.
Top 10 senators set to retire:
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Earl Andrew ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Formeruser-81 ( talk • contribs) 15 January 2005
Is "seniority" really the most effective way to organize this list? Shouldn't it be in either alphabetical order or grouped by caucus? Bearcat 18:38, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
How about in future we not remove Senators from this list until they have in fact retired. Senator Ferretti Barth did not retire until today (April 28), but she was removed yesterday despite the fact she was still a sitting Senator until midnight last night. PoliSciMaster 17:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
It's good, I just noticed a few things you might want to change. Hope they're helpful:
-- Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 03:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I have noticed that someone has been attempting to update this list to reflect the new appointments, yet someone else keeps reverting these changes and referring to a separate list for the 2008 appointments, ostensibly because these appointments have not been approved by the Governor General. This is quite simply false. All 18 appointments are official, and they are now reflected on the Parliamentary website, both in the overall standings, and in the list of current senators and their biographies. The 18 should be incorporated into the main list. PoliSciMaster ( talk) 19:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Patrick Brazeau, Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis and Leo Housakos have been removed from the list of Senators at the Senate website. Does anyone know if there is a reason for this, or is it just a glitch? -- Scorpion 0422 19:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Last year, as those who follow this page remember, the Senate's website listed the 18 new senators with a "nomination" date of December 22, 2008. We followed that date here. Later, the Senate changed the dates to January 2, 2009, for 15, January 8 for two, and January 14 for one. At this appointment, the Senate did the same thing. I for one see no reason to be bitten twice. As far as we know, the only significance of August 27, 2009, is that that is the date the PM publicly announced the appointments. Each and every other senator listed has a date of appointment in this article reflecting the date of his or her summons, not the date the appointment was announced. As such, there is no reason, as an IP editor insists on doing, to use the August 27th date. A note that the appointment is pending sufficient until we have confirmation of the actual appointment date. - Rrius ( talk) 04:23, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Sophistry. Last thing first. Yes, that is speculation, but I never intended to put in the article. Rather it is a possible explanation of why the Senate staffers do what they do. Which brings us to the other point. We don't list things in Wikipedia based on "we don't know it didn't happen". We do know that From December 22, 2008, to approximately January 16, 2009, the Senate website listed "December 22, 2008" as the date of appointment for the 18 senators Harper announced he would appoint on that date. We know that from approximately January 16, 2009, on, the site has listed January 2 for 15 of them, January 8 for 2, and January 14 for 1. We know those dates are the dates on their summonses. We know that on August 27, 2009, the PM announced nine more senators. We know that on August 27, 2009, the Senate website put up the nine announced new senators with the date "August 27, 2009". We know that the Senate site listed incorrect dates in December and January and appears to be doing the same now. We CANNOT know that August 27, 2009, is the date of appointment for the new senators because. Until we know a date, it is inappropriate to list one. In the interim, if "pending" offends, simply leaving the space blank or using punctuation (such as an em dash or a few asterisks) would also do the job. - Rrius ( talk) 23:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I demand some help for to put on the table the 5 new senators named by Stephen Harper. I change the number of senator inside the Senate of Canada article.-- Fredoues ( talk) 06:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
According to the Canada Gazette, [1] Vern White has already been summoned. The media reports said his appointment was effective February 20, but the normal practice when a new senator wants to take up a seat after a delay is to simply give the summons at a later date rather than to make the summons effective at a later date on its own terms. So it seems more likely to me that the summons was issued on Jan 6 in the normal way, but White is choosing to wait until Feb 20 to show up to take the oath. I'm putting him in the main list with a ref to the Gazette for the Jan 6 date, and I'll make the appropriate changes elsewhere. If it turns out the Gazette is just wrong, I'll take responsibility for fixing things up. - Rrius ( talk) 04:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Political parties and politicians in Canada#Liberal senators' designation. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 18:38, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
As more "Independent" Senators are appointed, and many incumbent Senators (even those appointed by Conservative PMs) reclassify themselves as "independent", would it be helpful to colour the PM field red or blue and track standings of how many were appointed by PMs from each party? Eventually we'll get to a situation where it is very difficult to tell at a glance where the balance of power lies within the chamber (and on what future date it will shift). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.58.49.102 ( talk) 11:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
I have made this change, and now thinking we should go one further and track standings by the party pf the PM that appointed each Senator. -- Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk) 10:58, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
According to the Canada Gazette, Senator Peter Harder was summoned "to the Senate of Canada, by letters patent under the Great Seal of Canada bearing date of March 23, 2016" Source: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-09/html/notice-avis-eng.php#nb4
However, the date at the bottom of the notice was April 1, 2016.
Should we use the Gazette as the authoritative source for Senate Appointments? Which date to use for his appointment? March 23 or April 1? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.58.49.102 ( talk) 13:15, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
The Canada Gazette just updated with the the appointment dates for the new Senators here: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-16/html/notice-avis-eng.php#ne2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk • contribs) 12:51, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
From the Canada Gazette at http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-16/html/notice-avis-eng.php#ne2 :
"His Excellency the Governor General has been pleased to summon to the Senate of Canada, by letters patent under the Great Seal of Canada bearing date of March 23, 2016:..." (List of 6 new Senators)
The Canada Gazette is the official newspaper of the Government of Canada. Publication in the Gazette is considered official notice to all Canadians. Peter Harder's appointment is here: http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-04-09/html/notice-avis-eng.php#nb4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk • contribs) 13:49, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
Can this list be merged with the "List of current Senators of Canada by age"? Much of the information is redundant between the 2 lists, and that one is not being updated as often (for example, the most recent appointments have not been added). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianpoliticaljunkie ( talk • contribs) 12:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Sorting by retirements dates allows you to see which seats are going to open up this year, except that several senators have announced dates earlier than mandatory retirement date. I have retitled the column, and adjusted the one that I know about (Senator Wallace) adding relevant information to the notes column. Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wallace-retiring-1.3894845 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.75.166 ( talk) 15:38, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
As more appointments are made to the "Independent Senators Group" and Senators join the "non-affiliated" group, it will be more and more difficult to see at a glance how the balance of power will be changing in the senate based on upcoming retirements. For this reason I have colourized the Prime Minister column to show the partisan affiliation of the PM that appointed recommended the appointment of each Senator. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
198.103.152.52 (
talk)
20:04, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Most, maybe not all, of the senators Harper appointed promised to resign after, I think it was it 8 years. I would like to see a list of those he appointed under this promise showing who has resigned and who has stayed beyond their promised retirement date. KenWalker | Talk 04:11, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Here are some sources: https://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/08/27/news/why-harper-corrupted-senate https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/two-conservative-senators-have-their-own-reform-plan-quit-before-mandatory-retirement-at-75 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/fortiers-senate-appointment-confirmed/article20409019/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-to-revive-senate-reform-plan/article4303014/ https://www.macleans.ca/politics/after-appointing-56-unelected-senators-stephen-harper-decides-hes-done/ https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2009/08/27/harper_appoints_9_to_senate.html https://www.hilltimes.com/2017/07/19/tory-term-limits-myth-say-senators-promise-never-made/114026 https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/12/13/john-wallace-senate_n_13615308.html https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wallace-retiring-1.3894845
Now that Senator Downe left the PSG group, it lost official status.
According to the official Senate page available here: [6] the Senators of the former PSG are now non-affiliated.
I don't see a reason why we should list the PSG here at the moment. Maybe this group will achieve official status again in the future or not - who knows. But as it stands, the official source for Senate membership, namely their official website, lists the senators as non-affiliated and I think we should follow that convention and remove reference to the PSG. It can of course be mentioned in the opening paragraphs, but using the PSG in the actual list is not appropriate in my opinion.
However, before I go into an edit spree, I wanted to see what other people think of this. -- DeCoolRuler ( talk) 05:18, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Merge Proposal and / or
Redirect.
Please do not modify it.
The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of
List of current senators of Canada by age into this talk page's article was:
I propose to merge List of current senators of Canada by age into List of current senators of Canada. I think that the content in the List of current senators of Canada by age list article can easily be explained in the context of the List of current senators of Canada list article, and the List of current senators of Canada article is of a reasonable size that the merging of List of current senators of Canada by age will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned.
Moreover, there are times when the less frequently updated List of current senators of Canada by age list article is not "in sync" with the List of current senators of Canada list article, which causes a mismatch in the accuracy of information.
The only columns List of current senators of Canada by age has that List of current senators of Canada does not are the Date of birth, Length of Senate term to date, and Days until retirement columns—all of which could be migrated to the merged wikitable; however, we may wish to discuss if one of those columns is mildly CRUFTy.
At the end of the day, it will be much more efficient only have to update one list article of current Canadian senators.
@ MikkelJSmith2, Kawnhr, GoodDay, Bearcat, Arctic.gnome, and SMcCandlish: Friendly pings to fellow Canadian Wikipedians who regularly or occasionally edit related Senate of Canada articles or these two list articles.
Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
A copy of this template can be found here.
Hi GoodDay, Kawnhr, or MikkelJSmith2,
I've updated most pages following Senator Day's retirement effective January 24, 2020; however, still to come are the "Appointment breakdown" chart at List of current senators of Canada, which seems kind of like a pain in the butt to reconcile by which Prime Minister appointed the Senator. If it only needs Joseph A. Day's number to be reflected, then it's pretty good.
As to Template:43rd Canada Senate standings change, I'm not that great with adding new column headers to wikitables. Is there an easier way? Rather than fudge it up, I'll leave it for you. ;)
Thanks,
--
Doug Mehus
T·
C
19:49, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
I updated several tables regarding the resignation of Grant Mitchell and the switch of Patricia Bovey, but when I got to the appointment breakdown by prime minister I noticed that this table seems to not have been updated for a while since it says 100 total senators, but there currently are only 96. Would someone know how to easily fix the numbers without having to calculate from scratch? Maybe someone know when the last update of that table happened? -- DeCoolRuler ( talk) 23:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)