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Did you know column on 16 April 2016 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Thanks Gerda for your work in collating the information and creating this list article. I'm no expert, but could I make a few suggestions?
I've just noticed that it's using a template to create the table. Perhaps I could extend {{ Classical composition header}} to allow the use of alternate labels for the columns? -- RexxS ( talk) 23:52, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Text | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Librettist | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
{{sort|Davies, Peter Maxwell|By [[Peter Maxwell Davies]]}}
, it will display "By
Peter Maxwell Davies", but sort as "Davies, Peter Maxwell". Does that help? --
RexxS (
talk)
09:09, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Text | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | By Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Text by | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
"Compositions" is not an accurate entry for |title=
. I suggest either excluding the parameter (which will result in the article title displaying above the image) or including it but leaving it empty (which will result in nothing displaying above the image). In either case, we can provide a link to the composer in the caption if such is desired.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
21:21, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
. Consider
Requiem (Reger) - the article title and what is contained in |title=
do not match, because "Requiem" and not "Requiem (Reger)" is the title of the work being described. Here there is no single title for the works being described, and so no value should be given for |title=
no matter what the article title is. That's the point of value pairs - we should know that in all cases of {{
infobox musical composition}}, |title=
gives the title of the work (not a descriptor).
Nikkimaria (
talk)
21:49, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
|type=
=Compositions, - a parameter kept vague intentionally? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
22:04, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
or |type=
; would either of the two options I've suggested above be acceptable to you? If not, why not?
Nikkimaria (
talk)
00:08, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
can't be a generic term, such as "String quartets", clearly a plural not in title case. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
07:04, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|name=
(already available)? |group=
? |topic=
? |you name it=
? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
12:42, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|name=
List of compositions, |composer=
Peter Maxwell Davies but think it's less elegant than what we have, --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
13:55, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|Header=
and fill it with List of compositions.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
14:24, 17 April 2016 (UTC)|name=
is included in the template code but not filled, then 'List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies' displays above the image; I have no objection to that display.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
14:17, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
. That's why I suggested a generic |header=
above.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
14:51, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|potato=
, it would still be wrong to have "Compositions" as its value here.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
15:41, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|work=
should be neutral enough to cover also a body of works. What I don't understand: the reader doesn't even see how the parameter is coded, so will not be confused anyway. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
17:26, 17 April 2016 (UTC)If all we care about is what the reader sees, then the template on the right works. After all, Izkala is absolutely correct: 'List of compositions' is not a composition, no matter what label we use for that description. Nikkimaria ( talk) 18:57, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|composer=
a composer, for example. Oppose this version. (I thought silence was a polite way to do that.) --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
22:10, 19 April 2016 (UTC)Not really ;) - Look around (articles of composers, actors etc.): there's some sort of consensus that the creator of an article or someone who elevates it to higher quality is the first to make an editorial choice, such as an infobox yes or no. (This concept may be not a great idea, but it's followed. We might discuss that.) I did, with some compromises following. Someone who wishes something different will need good reasons and consensus.
I oppose this version (first shown above, then somewhere, both confusing), copied here for clarity, with smaller images:
List of compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942–2015 |
Comment | Alt A |
{{infobox | above = List of compositions | subheader = by [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | subheaderstyle = font-weight:bold; | image = [[File:Peter_Maxwell_Davies.jpg|60px]] | caption = Davies in 2012 | label1 = Composed | data1 = 1942–2015}} |label2=Comment |data2=Alt A}}
The version now then in the article:
Compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() The conductor and composer of dramatic works, symphonies, concertos and chamber music, in 2012 | |
Catalogue | Op. 1 to 334 |
Composed | 1955 | –2015
{{Infobox musical composition | is_list = yes | title = Compositions | composer = [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | image = Peter Maxwell Davies.jpg | image_upright = 0.3 <!-- for the talk page --> | caption = The conductor and composer of dramatic works, symphonies, concertos and chamber music, in 2012 | catalogue = [[Opus number|Op]]. 1 to 334 | composed = {{Start date|1955}}–2015 }}
Yes, they LOOK similar. The differences are obvious but we can spell them out:
List of compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942–2015 |
Comment | Alt A |
List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
---|---|
![]()
Peter Maxwell Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942 | –2015
List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
---|---|
![]()
Peter Maxwell Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942 | –2015
|comment=
to allow easy reference to each). I've explained above my objections to the present version.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
00:54, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() The conductor and composer in 2012 | |
Form |
|
Composed | 1942 | –2015
{{Infobox musical composition | is_list = yes | name = Compositions | composer = [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | image = Peter Maxwell Davies.jpg | image_upright = 0.8 <!-- for the talk page --> | caption = The conductor and composer in 2012 | composed = {{Start date|19<s>55</s>42}}–2015 | form = {{hlist | dramatic works | symphonies | concertos | chamber music}} }}
Taking on board some ideas, I propose this (Alt D). I do care about coding. By the reason that |title=
has to hold a title (transparency, identification), I wish that the composer appears in |composer=
(not within |subheader=
), and the time of composition appears in |composed=
(not in some unprecise |label1=
). I see no reason to use a general infobox when there is one designated for musical compositions {{
infobox musical composition}}, which is now included in 604 articles. The standard for these is (as for {{
infobox opera}}) to have the composer linked above the image. I see no good reason to have the top of this list article look different from his single works, compare
Symphony No. 1. I have dropped the catalogue numbers per below, although I think they would show easily the sheer volume of his work. For composition time: I used the times of the compositions in this article. When an earlier one is addded, that should be adjusted. I learned long captions instead of parameters as a compromise, compare
Symphony No. 1 (Sibelius) (by
Smerus). I prefer parameters, and because |genre=
seems overly precise, now suggest |form=
, - we could also use |comment=
or |misc=
. The template is flexible. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
07:13, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
Composed | 1942 | –2015
|
|header=
as mentioned above.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
11:37, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
and |name=
unacceptable, but would accept |header=
? (Please understand that for me, they are more or less the same.) --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
22:21, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
|above=
produces text in the same position and format as |name=
currently does in this template. (I know Alt A uses a different template - what I'm suggesting is to add that generic parameter to this one).
Nikkimaria (
talk)
11:20, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
|composer=
which I believe should appear just like in single compositions, for consistency? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
12:19, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
|name=
, but not using that parameter.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
17:53, 22 April 2016 (UTC)Perhaps we use "we" too much without saying who we is.
|above=
should be avoided, "above" what? I find it worse than |title=
, |name=
and |header=
.|name=
and |above=
and |header=
. We (meaning you and I) aren't disagreeing about what the reader sees or should see, at the moment. You argue this is a list of musical compositions so should use an infobox for musical compositions; it's the same logic that says a parameter meant for a composition title should not be filled with something that is not a composition title.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
00:34, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
|header=
the description of what it contains, such as "String quartets" or "Compositions". It would be needlessly complicated if you ask me, but acceptable. To have the description under "above" and the composer under "subheader" is unacceptable, by the same logic that "title" should be a title. (I disagree, btw, that the choice of a suitable infobox follows "the same logic" as the suitability of one parameter.) --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
07:13, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
don't have the same meaning. In the case of this article, there is no appropriate entry for |title=
because there is no single composition title to put there. You could, however, simply create |header=
in the existing template, as one of several possible solutions. And there is no functional difference between calling that parameter header or above (or potato!), so long as they are not aliases of the existing |title=
.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
12:48, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
|above=
also don't have the same meaning.) I asked above already: if I wanted |header=
as an independent parameter, how could it be coded, with the default of page name respected. Asking
Izkala and
Andy, again. - If you could live with |header=
, just not |title=
, I'd be willing to replace title by header. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
13:16, 23 April 2016 (UTC)|title=
is meant to be limited to things that are actually titles, not things we happen to want to display in the header.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
12:14, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() The conductor and composer in 2012 | |
Form |
|
Composed | 19 |
{{Infobox musical composition | list_title = {{sc|List of}}<br> compositions | composer = [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | image = Peter Maxwell Davies.jpg | image_upright = 0.8 <!-- for the talk page --> | caption = The conductor and composer in 2012 | composed = {{Start date|19<s>55</s>42}}–2015 | form = {{hlist | dramatic works | symphonies | concertos | chamber music}} }}
|list_title=
set up as a synonym of |title=
, correct?|title=
from the root {{
infobox}}, then?
Nikkimaria (
talk)
01:03, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
|list_title=
and |title=
can be used at the same time, if that makes any difference...
Izkala (
talk)
19:44, 25 April 2016 (UTC)|name=
/|title=
/etc in {{
infobox musical composition}} is intended to contain the title of a musical composition. However, in this particular case there is no single composition title, and so the parameter should not be filled.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
23:52, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
|is_list=yes
indicates that the name/ title applies to a list, not a work.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits
17:26, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
If we are going to quote "opus" numbers here, I think we should at least explain their origin. Max himself didn't use opus numbers – he often used to joke that he called the Trumpet Sonata "Opus 1", but then stopped using opus numbers because he thought they sounded pretentious. I don't think any of his publishers mentions opus numbers. The "Opus" and "WoO" (Werk ohne Opuszahl - not "WOO", please note!) numbers listed here were, I believe, devised and published in N. Jones and R. McGregor "Peter Maxwell Davies's Opus and WoO Numbers: A New Work List", MT, Vol. 151 (2010), 53–86, i.e. many years after most of the works were written and published. If anyone has library access to MT they may be able to throw more light on this than I can. -- Deskford ( talk) 21:30, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 16 April 2016 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
Thanks Gerda for your work in collating the information and creating this list article. I'm no expert, but could I make a few suggestions?
I've just noticed that it's using a template to create the table. Perhaps I could extend {{ Classical composition header}} to allow the use of alternate labels for the columns? -- RexxS ( talk) 23:52, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Text | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Librettist | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
{{sort|Davies, Peter Maxwell|By [[Peter Maxwell Davies]]}}
, it will display "By
Peter Maxwell Davies", but sort as "Davies, Peter Maxwell". Does that help? --
RexxS (
talk)
09:09, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Text | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | By Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
Title | Notes | Scoring | Op. | Year | Genre | Text by | Reference |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chamber opera in nine scenes | 72 | 1976 | Opera | Peter Maxwell Davies | 289 |
"Compositions" is not an accurate entry for |title=
. I suggest either excluding the parameter (which will result in the article title displaying above the image) or including it but leaving it empty (which will result in nothing displaying above the image). In either case, we can provide a link to the composer in the caption if such is desired.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
21:21, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
. Consider
Requiem (Reger) - the article title and what is contained in |title=
do not match, because "Requiem" and not "Requiem (Reger)" is the title of the work being described. Here there is no single title for the works being described, and so no value should be given for |title=
no matter what the article title is. That's the point of value pairs - we should know that in all cases of {{
infobox musical composition}}, |title=
gives the title of the work (not a descriptor).
Nikkimaria (
talk)
21:49, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
|type=
=Compositions, - a parameter kept vague intentionally? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
22:04, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
or |type=
; would either of the two options I've suggested above be acceptable to you? If not, why not?
Nikkimaria (
talk)
00:08, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
can't be a generic term, such as "String quartets", clearly a plural not in title case. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
07:04, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|name=
(already available)? |group=
? |topic=
? |you name it=
? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
12:42, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|name=
List of compositions, |composer=
Peter Maxwell Davies but think it's less elegant than what we have, --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
13:55, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|Header=
and fill it with List of compositions.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
14:24, 17 April 2016 (UTC)|name=
is included in the template code but not filled, then 'List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies' displays above the image; I have no objection to that display.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
14:17, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
. That's why I suggested a generic |header=
above.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
14:51, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|potato=
, it would still be wrong to have "Compositions" as its value here.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
15:41, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|work=
should be neutral enough to cover also a body of works. What I don't understand: the reader doesn't even see how the parameter is coded, so will not be confused anyway. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
17:26, 17 April 2016 (UTC)If all we care about is what the reader sees, then the template on the right works. After all, Izkala is absolutely correct: 'List of compositions' is not a composition, no matter what label we use for that description. Nikkimaria ( talk) 18:57, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
|composer=
a composer, for example. Oppose this version. (I thought silence was a polite way to do that.) --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
22:10, 19 April 2016 (UTC)Not really ;) - Look around (articles of composers, actors etc.): there's some sort of consensus that the creator of an article or someone who elevates it to higher quality is the first to make an editorial choice, such as an infobox yes or no. (This concept may be not a great idea, but it's followed. We might discuss that.) I did, with some compromises following. Someone who wishes something different will need good reasons and consensus.
I oppose this version (first shown above, then somewhere, both confusing), copied here for clarity, with smaller images:
List of compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942–2015 |
Comment | Alt A |
{{infobox | above = List of compositions | subheader = by [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | subheaderstyle = font-weight:bold; | image = [[File:Peter_Maxwell_Davies.jpg|60px]] | caption = Davies in 2012 | label1 = Composed | data1 = 1942–2015}} |label2=Comment |data2=Alt A}}
The version now then in the article:
Compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() The conductor and composer of dramatic works, symphonies, concertos and chamber music, in 2012 | |
Catalogue | Op. 1 to 334 |
Composed | 1955 | –2015
{{Infobox musical composition | is_list = yes | title = Compositions | composer = [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | image = Peter Maxwell Davies.jpg | image_upright = 0.3 <!-- for the talk page --> | caption = The conductor and composer of dramatic works, symphonies, concertos and chamber music, in 2012 | catalogue = [[Opus number|Op]]. 1 to 334 | composed = {{Start date|1955}}–2015 }}
Yes, they LOOK similar. The differences are obvious but we can spell them out:
List of compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942–2015 |
Comment | Alt A |
List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
---|---|
![]()
Peter Maxwell Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942 | –2015
List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
---|---|
![]()
Peter Maxwell Davies in 2012 | |
Composed | 1942 | –2015
|comment=
to allow easy reference to each). I've explained above my objections to the present version.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
00:54, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() The conductor and composer in 2012 | |
Form |
|
Composed | 1942 | –2015
{{Infobox musical composition | is_list = yes | name = Compositions | composer = [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | image = Peter Maxwell Davies.jpg | image_upright = 0.8 <!-- for the talk page --> | caption = The conductor and composer in 2012 | composed = {{Start date|19<s>55</s>42}}–2015 | form = {{hlist | dramatic works | symphonies | concertos | chamber music}} }}
Taking on board some ideas, I propose this (Alt D). I do care about coding. By the reason that |title=
has to hold a title (transparency, identification), I wish that the composer appears in |composer=
(not within |subheader=
), and the time of composition appears in |composed=
(not in some unprecise |label1=
). I see no reason to use a general infobox when there is one designated for musical compositions {{
infobox musical composition}}, which is now included in 604 articles. The standard for these is (as for {{
infobox opera}}) to have the composer linked above the image. I see no good reason to have the top of this list article look different from his single works, compare
Symphony No. 1. I have dropped the catalogue numbers per below, although I think they would show easily the sheer volume of his work. For composition time: I used the times of the compositions in this article. When an earlier one is addded, that should be adjusted. I learned long captions instead of parameters as a compromise, compare
Symphony No. 1 (Sibelius) (by
Smerus). I prefer parameters, and because |genre=
seems overly precise, now suggest |form=
, - we could also use |comment=
or |misc=
. The template is flexible. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
07:13, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Compositions | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
Composed | 1942 | –2015
|
|header=
as mentioned above.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
11:37, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
and |name=
unacceptable, but would accept |header=
? (Please understand that for me, they are more or less the same.) --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
22:21, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
|above=
produces text in the same position and format as |name=
currently does in this template. (I know Alt A uses a different template - what I'm suggesting is to add that generic parameter to this one).
Nikkimaria (
talk)
11:20, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
|composer=
which I believe should appear just like in single compositions, for consistency? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
12:19, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
|name=
, but not using that parameter.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
17:53, 22 April 2016 (UTC)Perhaps we use "we" too much without saying who we is.
|above=
should be avoided, "above" what? I find it worse than |title=
, |name=
and |header=
.|name=
and |above=
and |header=
. We (meaning you and I) aren't disagreeing about what the reader sees or should see, at the moment. You argue this is a list of musical compositions so should use an infobox for musical compositions; it's the same logic that says a parameter meant for a composition title should not be filled with something that is not a composition title.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
00:34, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
|header=
the description of what it contains, such as "String quartets" or "Compositions". It would be needlessly complicated if you ask me, but acceptable. To have the description under "above" and the composer under "subheader" is unacceptable, by the same logic that "title" should be a title. (I disagree, btw, that the choice of a suitable infobox follows "the same logic" as the suitability of one parameter.) --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
07:13, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
|title=
don't have the same meaning. In the case of this article, there is no appropriate entry for |title=
because there is no single composition title to put there. You could, however, simply create |header=
in the existing template, as one of several possible solutions. And there is no functional difference between calling that parameter header or above (or potato!), so long as they are not aliases of the existing |title=
.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
12:48, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
|above=
also don't have the same meaning.) I asked above already: if I wanted |header=
as an independent parameter, how could it be coded, with the default of page name respected. Asking
Izkala and
Andy, again. - If you could live with |header=
, just not |title=
, I'd be willing to replace title by header. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
13:16, 23 April 2016 (UTC)|title=
is meant to be limited to things that are actually titles, not things we happen to want to display in the header.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
12:14, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
List of compositions by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
---|---|
by Peter Maxwell Davies | |
![]() The conductor and composer in 2012 | |
Form |
|
Composed | 19 |
{{Infobox musical composition | list_title = {{sc|List of}}<br> compositions | composer = [[Peter Maxwell Davies]] | image = Peter Maxwell Davies.jpg | image_upright = 0.8 <!-- for the talk page --> | caption = The conductor and composer in 2012 | composed = {{Start date|19<s>55</s>42}}–2015 | form = {{hlist | dramatic works | symphonies | concertos | chamber music}} }}
|list_title=
set up as a synonym of |title=
, correct?|title=
from the root {{
infobox}}, then?
Nikkimaria (
talk)
01:03, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
|list_title=
and |title=
can be used at the same time, if that makes any difference...
Izkala (
talk)
19:44, 25 April 2016 (UTC)|name=
/|title=
/etc in {{
infobox musical composition}} is intended to contain the title of a musical composition. However, in this particular case there is no single composition title, and so the parameter should not be filled.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
23:52, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
|is_list=yes
indicates that the name/ title applies to a list, not a work.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits
17:26, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
If we are going to quote "opus" numbers here, I think we should at least explain their origin. Max himself didn't use opus numbers – he often used to joke that he called the Trumpet Sonata "Opus 1", but then stopped using opus numbers because he thought they sounded pretentious. I don't think any of his publishers mentions opus numbers. The "Opus" and "WoO" (Werk ohne Opuszahl - not "WOO", please note!) numbers listed here were, I believe, devised and published in N. Jones and R. McGregor "Peter Maxwell Davies's Opus and WoO Numbers: A New Work List", MT, Vol. 151 (2010), 53–86, i.e. many years after most of the works were written and published. If anyone has library access to MT they may be able to throw more light on this than I can. -- Deskford ( talk) 21:30, 19 April 2016 (UTC)