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(1) The Wikipedia general notability guideline says, "These notability guidelines only outline how suitable a topic is for its own article or list. They do not limit the content of an article or list." (Emphasis copied from the guideline.) So, the entries in this list do not need to be notable, only the topic of the list itself, breweries in Illinois, needs to be notable. I'm therefore restoring the entries that were recently removed with an edit summary of "remove non-notable". (2) The external links guideline says, "Wikipedia articles may include links to web pages outside Wikipedia (external links), but they should not normally be used in the body of an article." Links from the text of the list to websites for breweries are linkspam, and so should be omitted. This is in contrast to footnotes with reliable, third-party references, which are or course appropriate. — Mudwater ( Talk) 14:14, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Keep I think that this list is clearly within the guidelines for a list on Wikipedia. I also think that it would be better to not try to change all 50 states all at the same time without consensus and/or without discussion.
In conclusion, I think that these lists are within scope and should not be subject to deletion or excessive modification as has happened at Brewing in Vermont and other pages around the U.S. Ellin Beltz ( talk) 16:59, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
With that being said, a list entry with a third-party reference is still better than a list entry without a third party reference. So, I've
added some refs. I'm planning on adding more, as time allows. Other editors are encouraged to do the same, in this list or in other lists. IronGargoyle, you might want to give it a try yourself. It's actually pretty fun, and you'll be improving the articles instead of starting arguments about them.
—
Mudwater (
Talk)
02:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
I think it would be better to remove the "Planned breweries" section. As a general rule of thumb, on Wikipedia it's preferable not to document future events, because they might not actually happen. And with breweries, sometimes plans are announced but then things end up not working out. I'd be willing to bet money that the Lagunitas brewery and brewpub in Chicago are going to open soon, but why not wait until that happens and then include them in the article. So, I've deleted that section. That said, I'd be open to further discussion. — Mudwater ( Talk) 02:42, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
In the last few days, I've added seven entries to the "Other beer companies" section of the article. These are brewing companies that are based in Illinois and are currently selling their beer commercially, but they don't have their own breweries, so far anyway. In my opinion the "Other beer companies" section is a really good place to list these. The article is "List of breweries in Illinois", and they're not breweries, so they're not in the main "Breweries" list. But they are a significant and noteworthy part of the Illinois beer scene, so they should still be included in the article, and putting them in this other section is a good way to do it, I think. As always other editors are encouraged to give their opinions. — Mudwater ( Talk) 23:15, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
We could possibly add a list of Breweries that are not originally from Illinois but have opened another Brewery in the Illinois area; most prominently, the opening of the 2nd Lagunitas Brewing Company in Chicago in 2014. - Gabbywhat ( talk)
Recently the main Breweries table was reformatted. The "location and other information" column was broken into three columns -- "location", "brewery opened", and "notes" -- and the columns were made sortable. Here are links to the before and after. I appreciate the effort that was put into this, but the table was better before, so I'm putting it back the way it was. The issue is that where a brewery is located, or when it opened, can be somewhat complicated, so this information is not really suited to sortable columns. Furthermore there are different variations on these complications. Some breweries started as contract brewers, then built their own brewery; others have opened multiple locations over time; others have different types of facilities (for example, a brewpub, and a brewery with a tap room) that opened in different locations at different times; and so on. This information can all best be explained to the reader in the brief prose, or bullet point type info, in the "location and other information column". It also makes sorting the columns considerably less helpful, because the location and year information is not singular for some of the breweries, nor does there seem to be any advantage to sorting some of the other columns such as "notes". Again, I think it's good that different editors are working on improving the article, and I understand the attraction of sortable tables, but in this case we need to focus on overall usability for our readers. Thanks. — Mudwater ( Talk) 12:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
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|
(1) The Wikipedia general notability guideline says, "These notability guidelines only outline how suitable a topic is for its own article or list. They do not limit the content of an article or list." (Emphasis copied from the guideline.) So, the entries in this list do not need to be notable, only the topic of the list itself, breweries in Illinois, needs to be notable. I'm therefore restoring the entries that were recently removed with an edit summary of "remove non-notable". (2) The external links guideline says, "Wikipedia articles may include links to web pages outside Wikipedia (external links), but they should not normally be used in the body of an article." Links from the text of the list to websites for breweries are linkspam, and so should be omitted. This is in contrast to footnotes with reliable, third-party references, which are or course appropriate. — Mudwater ( Talk) 14:14, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Keep I think that this list is clearly within the guidelines for a list on Wikipedia. I also think that it would be better to not try to change all 50 states all at the same time without consensus and/or without discussion.
In conclusion, I think that these lists are within scope and should not be subject to deletion or excessive modification as has happened at Brewing in Vermont and other pages around the U.S. Ellin Beltz ( talk) 16:59, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
With that being said, a list entry with a third-party reference is still better than a list entry without a third party reference. So, I've
added some refs. I'm planning on adding more, as time allows. Other editors are encouraged to do the same, in this list or in other lists. IronGargoyle, you might want to give it a try yourself. It's actually pretty fun, and you'll be improving the articles instead of starting arguments about them.
—
Mudwater (
Talk)
02:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
I think it would be better to remove the "Planned breweries" section. As a general rule of thumb, on Wikipedia it's preferable not to document future events, because they might not actually happen. And with breweries, sometimes plans are announced but then things end up not working out. I'd be willing to bet money that the Lagunitas brewery and brewpub in Chicago are going to open soon, but why not wait until that happens and then include them in the article. So, I've deleted that section. That said, I'd be open to further discussion. — Mudwater ( Talk) 02:42, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
In the last few days, I've added seven entries to the "Other beer companies" section of the article. These are brewing companies that are based in Illinois and are currently selling their beer commercially, but they don't have their own breweries, so far anyway. In my opinion the "Other beer companies" section is a really good place to list these. The article is "List of breweries in Illinois", and they're not breweries, so they're not in the main "Breweries" list. But they are a significant and noteworthy part of the Illinois beer scene, so they should still be included in the article, and putting them in this other section is a good way to do it, I think. As always other editors are encouraged to give their opinions. — Mudwater ( Talk) 23:15, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
We could possibly add a list of Breweries that are not originally from Illinois but have opened another Brewery in the Illinois area; most prominently, the opening of the 2nd Lagunitas Brewing Company in Chicago in 2014. - Gabbywhat ( talk)
Recently the main Breweries table was reformatted. The "location and other information" column was broken into three columns -- "location", "brewery opened", and "notes" -- and the columns were made sortable. Here are links to the before and after. I appreciate the effort that was put into this, but the table was better before, so I'm putting it back the way it was. The issue is that where a brewery is located, or when it opened, can be somewhat complicated, so this information is not really suited to sortable columns. Furthermore there are different variations on these complications. Some breweries started as contract brewers, then built their own brewery; others have opened multiple locations over time; others have different types of facilities (for example, a brewpub, and a brewery with a tap room) that opened in different locations at different times; and so on. This information can all best be explained to the reader in the brief prose, or bullet point type info, in the "location and other information column". It also makes sorting the columns considerably less helpful, because the location and year information is not singular for some of the breweries, nor does there seem to be any advantage to sorting some of the other columns such as "notes". Again, I think it's good that different editors are working on improving the article, and I understand the attraction of sortable tables, but in this case we need to focus on overall usability for our readers. Thanks. — Mudwater ( Talk) 12:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 33 external links on List of breweries in Illinois. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
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dead link}}
tag to
http://chicagoist.com/2011/07/19/emmetts_brewing_co_now_distributing.php{{
dead link}}
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https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20170718/beverly/open-outcry-brewing-co-set-debut-friday-morgan-parkWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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I have just modified 13 external links on List of breweries in Illinois. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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