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Harout. I Will remove her 170m claim because she's already at 152m in certified sales. Thanks. Politsi ( talk) 03:48, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
I think when Whitney reach 158 on her certified sales. Then we should remove her 170m claim. Politsi ( talk) 07:14, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't see much of a difference between 153m or 158m or 160m. As long as there is no source specifically supporting the 75% claim being made, I don't see any issues with the removal of Whitney's 170M claims. Sony has retrospectively certified her digital sales which has cumulated since digital download has begun. Furthermore, Chartmasters have tools to go to each streaming site’s database and there, 4.9m can be calculated. I also don’t see how the statement, “There is no way for an ordinary person…” supports or not support the topic at hand. TruthGuardians ( talk) 17:17, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Harout72, as you can see, I disagree with what you have added to the "Definitions" section of the list. I believe that, apart from the fact that there was no common consensus to add such a statement to the section, this even goes against previous agreements resulting from extensive discussions. One example: last June we reached a common consensus, after a complex discussion, that Elvis Presley's claimed sales will be increased to 600M when his certified sales reach 280M. Considering what you have now added to the "Definitions" section, it would be impossible. Salvabl ( talk) 19:52, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Apoxyomenus: Numbers and gap speaks. And as far I can see in Houston's case, I start to define that her discography is "short" (in terms of releases: albums/singles). Despite this, she sold a considerable amount of records. Those sales, however were concentrated in the 1980s and 1990s in both USA and overseas (and always, mostly in her native country). In the rest of her career for next decades, she was most of the times under her average both USA and mostly outside (with some exceptions). Overall, Houston could easily be in a "mid-category" of those artists with most of their sales in the USA (her USA-sales are the double of her abroad figures, after, during or before her death; and/or she didn't match her USA sales with those abroad).
I don't think user TheWikiholic's behavior is disruptive either. I find their concerns fair, enlightening, and thought provoking. When coming across random posts on various social media platforms, this Wikipedia page in particular, is always dismissed as biased on top of other reasons. I defended this article one time before and I was being called a racist and a sympathizer of sorts. But that’s getting a little off topic, I believe that a consensus isn’t going to be reached on this topic and instead of reporting each other for no reason, as I don’t think it will end as anyone think it will, I think we should take this discussion to the next level. We can get a vote going which will get others involved that will look at the available sources, or lack there of, to vote on a topic they won’t know anything about or pretend to, or we can reach a compromise. TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:29, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
I have made the following change in the statements that were added, now they would read: "Gold/Platinum certifications issued after 2016, especially on singles, are in some cases more than 50% streaming generated. It should be noted that 20th century artists can also have significant amount of streaming based certifications, therefore, consideration should be taken when changing or upgrading their claimed figures also when their certifications are affected by streaming". I believe we should at least have that much information about certs generated by streams.-- Harout72 ( talk) 00:38, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't Nana Mouskouri be mentioned here somewhere with around 350 million albums sold? 109.193.151.59 ( talk) 08:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Depeche Mode is missing. They have sold more than 100 million records worldwide. Sources: German link Billboard
(sources from their article):
Sony Music (in German) Official UK Charts
Best Regards-- 2A0C:D242:3803:2500:6D11:1C5E:5292:2FF9 ( talk) 13:30, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
I'm glad this dispute got settled, plus it's good that Harout shared the file cuz apparently, there are missing certs for Houston in which they are:
I understand the rule of only adding certs from certifying bodies, but I truly believe that those certs can definitely be an exception, especially given the fact that they're from the 1980s, hence, making it very unlikely that they will ever resurface in today's certification databases, and considering that they come from Billboard (a highly regarded music magazine), I think it's a pretty reliable source to use them too. Plus, I don't see it a problem since you're already using a Billboard magazine (issued in 2000) as a source for Julio Iglesias certs. As for Switzerland, Switzerland wasn't even featured at the December 1986 issue of Music & Media, and since the album was certified in 1986, it doesn't make sense for the cert to appear at the Dec. '87 issue. As for RIAA, if you check the certification of the song I Wanna Dance with Somebody in RIAA database, first Gold certification was received in July 28, 1987, when certification levels were Gold=1,000,000 and Platinum=2,000,000 then almost two years it received a Platinum certification in February 13, 1989, (when certs level were lowered to Gold=500,000 and Platinum=1,000,000 and that was the last time the single was certified until it was digitally certified in 2019. My point is that since single already recieved the Gold cert before the Jan 1989 cert level change, it doesn't make any sense to apply the newly lowered levels on that single. Moh8213 ( talk) 19:30, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Rihanna didn’t sell so many records, give us a break. She barely could sell a few million copies of her albums. Albums and singles sales should separated. 2001:B07:ADD:D42A:300D:7228:3272:DD2B ( talk) 16:55, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Hello, wondering if Missy Elliott and The Notorious BIG qualify to the list. How many records have they sold?
Btw, there are sources reporting that Shakira has sold 80 million records. Are her units enough? -- 132.191.0.206 ( talk) 23:16, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Now giving that his label have re-certified his catalogue in the US, is it possible to move him to the 250m club with at least 250m in claimed sales? Moh8213 ( talk) 18:03, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi ! In this article, Johnny Hallyday is noted to have sold 80 million albums, while on his page , he is said to have sold more than 110 million. Is there a reason for this discrepancy? The source on his page looks more recent (2018, vs 2017 for the one here), but even the success of his posthumous albums doesn’t explain a discrepancy of 30 million… Nephanth ( talk) 09:53, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Being publicly reported all over the place but his team just got millions of certifications added and this list likely needs some updating 73.128.107.230 ( talk) 04:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
I’m attempting to figure out if certifications are being counted twice nowadays. For example, One Dance by Drake certified 8 times platinum by RIAA mostly due to streaming. Do you think it was included for the album’s certifications Views along with the other singles from that album, while calculating its Album equivalent sales? If so, isn't that considered counting the same streams twice, or am I tripping or misunderstanding something here? TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:13, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
Harout, So are you saying that when we calculate the EAS it doesn’t separately count the streams of singles? Precisely the streamings of all the tracks from an album except singles? It appears that this rolling stone article says otherwise. In this article, the columnist, Tim Ingham, observed the figure of Drakes Scorpion and found that 63% of the albums streams on Spotify came from just three songs off the 25 track albums. Additionally, only six songs accounted for 82% of the album's total streams, meaning that only a quarter of the songs determines the overall success of the album in terms of album-equivalent unit. From the above article, what I understand is once a single has 150M streams in USA RIAA certified it platinum. The same single turns 1.5B streams in the USA the RIAA certified the album in which the single included certify for platinum for its album-equivalent units. It doesn’t need other tracks from the same album to perform as well. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Is that your understanding of the RollingStones article as well?.—÷ TheWikiholic ( talk) 17:30, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Okay, so I have reached out to RIAA and received a response from a certification specialist. This was her reply to me: “We’re always happy to help all the RIAA standards are on our website and they’re very explicit and clear —you can count single sales and streams in the United States towards a single award and you can also count TEA’s and album sales towards an album award since 2016. We’re very explicit about it on our website.” I think this is quite clear. TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:28, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
There seems to be only one reply by Liz Kennedy, in both, correct? The one you quoted above? Did she reply to your question about whether albums certifications include streams/sales of singles also? That reply doesn't seem to on either of the scans.-- Harout72 ( talk) 15:18, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Harout72 When they say album streams count towards album streams it means they count streams of all the tracks for an album. That's why they specified "you can also count TEA's and album sales towards an album award since 2016". It means they count streams of singles+non singles. Literally when a single hits 150M streams in the USA the song is eligible for platinum certification by RIAA and if the same song hit 1.5B streams in the USA, the album associated with that song will be eligible for the platinum certification.
For instance, Michael Jackson's Thriller album was certified two times platinum in 2016 after RIAA added streams and audio downloads to album certifications. As of today, Thriller has around 6B streams from Youtube and Spotify. There are 9 tracks on Thriller and 7 out of 9 are released as singles. The views of both songs Lady In My Life and Baby Be Mine haven’t reached 10M even when combine today, so we can assume that if we go back to 2016 and remove the streaming of singles, the album would never certify based on the streaming of these two tracks. Similarly, in the UK and Germany, they count the streaming of singles for both single certifications and album certifications but give a certain percentage of weightage for the top two successful singles before calculating the EAS.— TheWikiholic ( talk) 17:20, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Liz’s exact words to me were “Yes, TEA and SEA are included in the tally and albums associated with singles are counted towards certification.” If there is still any confusion about what the website says, I would recommend you guys reach out to Liz as well. She did a phenomenal job at answering all of my questions and clear up all gray areas. Best time to contact her is Monday through Friday, 8am-noon EST for a possible immediate same day response. TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:40, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Harout. He has more than 134m in certified sales. What do you think if I raise his claim to 160m by using this source https://ew.com/movies/piano-man-with-no-piano-man-billy-joel-biopic/. Thanks Politsi ( talk) 15:58, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, long time no see. Could u send me U2's file? Moh8213 ( talk) 14:07, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
Why aren't rolling stones at the top of this list? They've sold over 250 million records. 2A00:23C6:AB83:3701:5D5E:58DD:79EF:ED4 ( talk) 12:54, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
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The Police's Synchronicty album was certified platinum for the sales of 500,000 in Italy in 1983 by the Associazione dei Fonografici Italiani (AFI), before it was know as The Federazione Industria Musicale Italiana (FIMI), links to support the claims. [1] [2] [3] 2601:346:E80:A380:D50:EF45:A2AF:35EC ( talk) 16:14, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Le vendite dei vari artisti sono state verificate da una apposita society di certificazione (la Ernst & Whinney) per conto dell'AFI, che insieme ai Comune di Genova sponsorizza la manifestazione. .... Altri collagamenti con i Police e Julio Iglesias (dischi di platino rispettivamente per Syncronicity e Momenti)
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Unless certs are directly provided by the certifying bodies, we can't use them. I personally can't locate anything in those sources that speaks about certs.-- Harout72 ( talk) 01:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Depeche Mode is missing. They have sold more than 100 million records worldwide. Sources: German link Billboard
(sources from their article):
Sony Music (in German) Official UK Charts
Best Regards-- 2A0C:D242:3804:8A00:1F:B044:2077:9423 ( talk) 08:40, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
It seems like you have a lot of guts to try for a 3rd time, looks like I've to settle this once and for all. Depeche Mode admittedly do have sold lots of records, though most of the music markets that they've sold are pretty small markets, therefore, their total certified sales can't support the 100 million records claim, let alone 75 million. And so, here's a detailed response for ur request. Try for a 4th time and u might get urself blocked from editing in Wikipedia. Moh8213 ( talk) 12:17, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
They have around 27,7 million certified units, more than e.g. Johnny Hallyday. They also are on the German list. You can also look at their discography site on Wikipedia.-- 2A0C:D242:3804:8A00:7582:DE81:921:7B6D ( talk) 10:05, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Since Mariah is now at 220m, what level of new certifications should be acquired to make her among the 250 million group ? @Fidelove @Harout? any answer?
Hey Harout, hope you're doing well, I've been busy lately so I couldn't check U2's certs, but now since I've got time now I've analysed the file and here's what I've found:
UK (Singles):
Germany (DVDs):
Netherlands (Albums):
(DVDs):
(Singles):
(Btw u forgot to include Sunday Bloody Sunday (100,000) to the total sales)
Argentina (Albums):
Brazil: It seems like there is a miscalculation on the Brazilian certs (specifically on DVDs), after I've recalculated them along with albums & singles, the total sales came to 1,800,000 certified sales.
New Zealand (Albums):
Denmark (Albums):
(Source via Music & Media magazine p.11, issued on May 21, 1988)
(Source via Music & Media magazine p. 7, issued on March 4, 1989)
Norway (albums):
(Source via M&M magazine p. 4, issued on August 28, 1993)
Portugal (albums):
(Since the album was released in 2004, the correct figure for the 3× Plat. is 120,000) Moh8213 ( talk) 09:25, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Great, though I still believe that those M&M sources are reliable enough to be included on this list. Take a look at this magazine from March 4, 1989 for example, on p. 7, it says that Sonet executives from Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland recently gathered at U2's office in Dublin to present to present gold albums from each territory for "Rattle and Rum" out of those 4 countries only 2 ( Sweden & Finland) have certification databases that can go back to the 1980s, and if you check their databases, you'll find the gold certifications for Rattle and Rum; therefore, making it highly possible that those other certs for Denmark & Norway are legit. As for Portugal, this is where I found the cert for The Best of 1980-1990 go down and you'll find a section in first row where it says "Álbuns mais vendidos em Portugal", click on that and there you'll find those certs, and in the bottom of those certs, there is sentence that says Fonte. AFP. Which translates to Source. AFP. and so I think that source is reliable too to use on this list. Moh8213 ( talk) 08:51, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Alright, I guess it's all said and done, though one small thing regarding Brazilian certs is that you've listed both U2 Go Home: Live from Slane Castle, Ireland and Vertigo 2005: Live from Chicago Diamonds with 500,000 units each, when in reality; according to Pro-Música Brasil, the Diamond certifications for DVDs until 2005 where 100,000 units, same things goes to PopMart: Live from Mexico City and Elevation 2001: Live from Boston both of 'em listed as Gold with 50,000 units while it's correct figure in 25,000 units, and The Best of 1990-2000 Video is 50,000 units not 125,000. Taking all this into account, the total certified sales along with albums and singles is 1,800,000 units. One thing I'm not sure is that while the Vertigo DVD was released in 2005, it was certified Diamond in 2006, when the cert level was changed, idk if they certify records based on release date or not but yeah other than that, there's nothing else missing. Moh8213 ( talk) 15:30, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
From here, seems like they're the same website but mine's from 2010, now one of them is telling the truth and the other is lying, and tbh I'd put my money on the 2010 site cuz it looks more logical to me. Moh8213 ( talk) 10:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
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Tobiasvikholt ( talk) 09:20, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
Queen is also one of the best selling bands ever. They have sold from 170million to 300 million albums. Sorce: https://no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen
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Change Madonna’s record sales from 300 million to 335 million.
According to Guinness world records. Madonna’s record sales stand at 335 million. This is a more recent and more valid source than the current sources supporting the current figure on Madonna’s record sales.
To increase the validity of this article, this should be updated. Hughie2000 ( talk) 13:46, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
Actually despite those 335 million records on Guiness Records (a number that is there for quite a few years) Madonna album sales alone were 75 million in US plus another 200 million in the rest of the world for a total 275 million albums worldwide as 2009 already. For her total records you need to add here the singles, maxi-singles and digital songs (estimated to be over 200 million by many other sources). Here is the link: https://books.google.gr/books?id=EX4yD1pJCxUC&pg=RA11-PA62&lpg=RA11-PA62&dq=warner+madonna+billboard+75+million+records&source=bl&ots=lj1TASkRAE&sig=ACfU3U2NnMOmAyAEwwQefA6uH-1QJNM4tA&hl=el&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjUyOfozcj1AhWRQvEDHWiFCP0Q6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q=warner%20madonna%20billboard%2075%20million%20records&f=false
Guiness Records were reporting Madonna 300 million records for many years until 2014 they decided to add to it her digital song sales that were over 35 million at the time (and over 50 million by now) but they didn't even updated Madonna numbers verifying again with her label.
Madonna record sales are being reported to be over 300 million records since the year 2000 and she sold way over 100 million albums, singles and digital songs since. Hopefully new reports by Warner Records happen in 2022 year since is Madonna 40 carreer anniversary you can update this list that is full of mistakes.
Not sure why on this article some artists only have Album sales numbers and others have physicial singles too and even others have digital songs too. Shouldn't there be some kind of division here? Selling 1 digital song it's not the same as selling 1 album (that for chart purposes even is equivaleted to 10 digital songs or vice-versa). For example, Rihanna despite bing the best selling digital songs artist only sold 35 million albums (that's even half the number of albums Adele sold). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.94.23.209 ( talk) 14:00, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Why is the list arranged by claimed sales? It should strictly be arranged by certified sales, not claims. As noted with the Depeche Mode section above, the claims can be much higher than the certified units. I do want to change this. The Top 5 would remain largely unaffected but it does cause problems down the bottom. skelter ( talk) 19:27, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Actually it should NOT be about certified sales as artist with more albums that sold almost enough for a new certification but not quite did those amounts (like Elvis Presley) despite not being certified and could be beloow other artists. Also as Record Labels need to pay to ask for certifications in most world countries this would untruthly put some artists ahead of others when they sold less. Do you really believe that albums released in the 60's, 70's or 80's didn't sell more later? Because most of them never got a new certification (and some records are even in need for 2 or 3 new certifications in dozens of countries). Some albums released before Soundscan in US already sold over 2 million copies since they were last certified by RIAA and that's why claimed sales exist. If only certified sales are used the list will NEVER be real.
There should be 2 or 3 lists here as we can't compare 1 Album with 1 Single or 1 digital song - it's not the same, even for chart purposes 10 digital songs = 1 album.
Even physical singles have at least 2 songs and most even have 4 or more (and cost as much as 4 digital songs or sometimes even more) being totally fake to compare them as 1 record on the same list.
Artists like Drake sold a lot digital songs but less than 45 million albums each - yet he appears on the list side by side with artists that sold over 150 or 200 million Albums. The same goes for artists like Rihanna, Katy Perry or Lady Gaga that sold less than 35 million albums so far worldwide. Yet Adele sold over 70 million albums and where is she?
I propose to create 3 lists: albums, singles and digital songs. The "RECORDS" category now doesn't make much sense. Before where 3x or 4 x physical singles and 2 x 12" singles(cd-maxi-single) would be more or less the same as 1 album it was less problematic but now when 10 x Digital Songs are the same as 1 album and are still considered "1 RECORD" it makes much less sense to use "Records" as it only distorts reality completely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.94.23.209 ( talk) 14:18, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Michael Jackson is the most certified solo artist from the pre-streaming era, this should be highlighted in the article. Very disingenuous to reference Elvis as the best selling solo artist by unverifiable ‘claimed sales’ figures while ignoring the elephant in the room that is Michael Jackson. Drake and his streaming numbers should not even be in the lede. 109.38.157.229 ( talk) 09:45, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
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Green day should be on this list. They used to be at 75m, but they were removed for some reason. They should be added to the 85m list, as they have sold more than 85,000,000 worldwide.
They've been active 1987-Present.
Ref: https://greenday.fm/charts/album-sales/
Also seen on Rock and Roll HoF page, billboard, and many others. This is easily verified. 47.197.33.241 ( talk) 15:24, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
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add Green Day to the list as they have sold 85 million albums according to all these sources [1] [2] [3] [4] 2601:346:E80:A380:2415:5DD1:3805:95C6 ( talk) 18:37, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion about Green Day right above this.-- Harout72 ( talk) 12:52, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Just noticed that "Bicycle Race" was certified Platinum by the RIAA. For some reason it was certified gold and platinum on the same day, May 23rd. My guess is their record was outdated. This should bring Queen up to 170.5 million certified worldwide.
ChimChamIt'sAScam05 (talk) 03:01, 26 May 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChimChamIt'sAScam05 ( talk • contribs)
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Queen should be moved to the 250 Million and more section. Numerous online articles refer to their sales as above 300 Million records including:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonthompson/2018/12/10/queens-bohemian-rhapsody-is-officially-the-worlds-most-streamed-song/?sh=3e674498c1f0 https://metalshout.com/all-queen-albums-in-order-according-to-sales/ https://www.escapistmagazine.com/brian-may-says-queen-rock-band-may-happen/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-queen-stamps-idUKKBN23U1ZW https://fresco.vc/5-business-lessons-from-the-music-of-queen/ 67.197.92.38 ( talk) 18:33, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, could you send me Coldplay's file? Moh8213 ( talk) 19:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Australia
(Listed in ur file as 11× Platinum)
Canada
(Listed in ur file as Platinum)
(Listed in ur file as Gold)
Japan
Mexico
(Note: the certification for this album is separate as the other one is for the Pre-loaded album) Also the correct figure for the pre-loaded album is 1,200,000 not 1,120,000.
New Zealand
Sweden
Switzerland
Portugal
(The Viva la Vida album was actually certified 2× Platinum in 2012 but there isn't any archived chart from 2012, fortunately though, the album re-entered the chart again in 2019 where you can still see the 2× Platinum cert.)
Oops, sorry for the inconvenience. Here you go. I guess other than that so far everything's going on track, tho I think it's worth mentioning that Coldplay & BTS' single My Universe has recently been certified Platinum (70,000) in Australia back in April. Moh8213 ( talk) 19:33, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, I don't know if you've updated this but the song Something Just Like This has recently been certified 13x Platinum (910,000) in Australia. Moh8213 ( talk) 10:25, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, hope you're doing well, do you think it's possible for David Guetta and Enrique Iglesias to be included with claimed sales of at least 75 million? According to my calculation I did few months ago, David Guetta has certified sales of over 20 million in the UK, 15 million in the US, 8 million in Germany, 5 million in France and so on, and I'm sure Guetta has sold well in other small markets too. I didn't go over Iglesias certified sales but I assume he has sold well enough for him to be included into the list, what's your thoughts on it? Moh8213 ( talk) 15:38, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout. I saw some figures for their career sales at 200 million by reliable sources. How many certified sales do they need for their claimed sales to increase? Thank you. Loibird90 ( talk) 09:12, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Please Celine's figures are up to 250 million confirmed by multiple reliable sources, she also sold 50 million albums only in Europe, so how is she at only 200 million? Moonlight Entm ( talk) 22:08, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
First off the certified units are not even updated, you can see any celine dion record sales analysis and the figure is up to even more than 250m, that was the first published and most reliable source of Celine Dion sales, it was reported by their label, inflated sales are really the one that losts of artists have here like Rihanna, when its clear that Celine Dion is the second best-selling female artist of all time after Madonna, it's a fact, there's no sense in putting Mariah or Whitney above her cause its well known that she's best seller out of the 3. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 00:19, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
You're so hypocritical to your statement, then why you removed Ariana's 90 million claim who has certified more than 130 million and 90 comes closer to that claim. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 21:07, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Literally a whole other editors have been calling me that dumb and bitch, and i've never seen an editor telling them to remain civil. The gamer is a reliable source, its a game news operated by korea naver, Ariana got her own fornite concert so it was mostly to a press release, so it can be consider 95% reliable. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 04:35, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Also Ariana Grande "85 million" claim came from her usa certified sales, she has sold 85.5 million copies in the united states and there you go here calling it "worlwide" everywhere in wikipedia, 85 million was made up by an user and since then a lot sources started putting in articles cause they got from here, so unless a label report then we can put it here or in her wikipedia. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 04:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
The picture of Bruce should be put above the U2 one, as the chart says RealSonny ( talk) 12:38, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Yourlocallordandsavior ( talk) 07:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Gaga's 124m figure is outdated. Here is a source for 170m which her certs easily support:
https://www.attitude.co.uk/article/lady-gaga-became-singer-after-multiple-failed-acting-auditions/19231/ SpearsRR ( talk) 18:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
It can't be true. Faked. 46.251.91.133 ( talk) 09:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Harout. Any update from Green Day?. Thanks Politsi ( talk) 09:02, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
So about Iron Maiden? They sold 100 million plus!!! With total sales up to 200 millions!!! Number of the Beast alone sold 20 millions!!! 94.62.4.8 ( talk) 23:34, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Question... On Kylie album discovraphy page... It noted her having aprox 80 million sales...why does this not allow her to reflect on this list. 105.186.102.119 ( talk) 20:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
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please include Juan Gabriel, he sold 150million copies according to the Grammys and CNN https://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2018/08/28/la-carrera-musical-de-juan-gabriel-en-numeros/ 2806:2F0:51E0:C0AB:CDE7:3A5A:D676:704E ( talk) 22:48, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
If you sum up physical and digital sales certified only in US and UK he surpasses 220 mi and gets a place in the first group, no doubt. Gabrielfmachado ( talk) 04:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
Do you happen to known what are Michael Bublé's certified units? Outlets like The Irish Times have reported sales of over 75 million records. Thanks, -- Apoxyomenus ( talk) 03:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Got it -- Apoxyomenus ( talk) 22:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
How come this mediocre singer ended up in the top-selling artists list? 46.251.84.165 ( talk) 16:59, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Can someone explain Rihanna's "Total certified unit sales" which supposedly is at 334.8 million (which would make her the best-selling music artist of all time by certified unit sales)?
I checked the U.S. sales numbers according to the provided source and the numbers seem completely off compared to what is claimed in this article. But maybe I'm missing something? Adriano 7 ( talk) 15:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
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Please make it right drake is not number one in sales that goes to Eminem by far so please change where it says drake is number one 38.34.83.22 ( talk) 00:15, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
A Billboard article published in 2019 reported that P!nk has already sold 135 million records worldwide. Is her current standings enough to raise her claimed sales now?
Link: https://www.billboard.com/pro/pink-legend-live-award-2019/ Loibird90 ( talk) 13:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Oh okay, thank you :) Loibird90 ( talk) 15:40, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
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Please change the error it says drake is the 2nd yet Eminem has sold over 100 million more records than drake so how can drake be the 2nd to Elvis when Eminem is proven to have sold more than drake 38.34.83.22 ( talk) 15:21, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Hi. I would like to ask how many certified sales does it take for Michael Bolton to be listed under 75 million sales claim? Thank you. Loibird90 ( talk) 00:05, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Here are the sources for I found for the 75 million claim:
• https://www.musichall.org/events/Grammy-Award-Winner-Michael-Bolton • https://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/2019030170324/michael-bolton-talks-challenges-faced-aspiring-singer/%3fviewas=amp • https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5649700/michael-bolton-age-net-worth/amp/ Loibird90 ( talk) 01:33, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Here are the other sources I also found:
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/05/michael-bolton-is-back-in-the-spotlight-as-a-contestant-on-nbcs-american-song-contest.html%3foutputType=amp/amp/ Loibird90 ( talk) 01:39, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Between 11/11/2022 and 8/9/2022, Beyoncé's solo catalogue was given a massive certification update by Music Canada. I believe the database was just updated with the plaques from November. I think this warrants an update to the outdated 3M figure. I estimated the total sales to be at around 6.580 million, but I could be mistaken.
https://musiccanada.com/gold-platinum/?_gp_search=%20Beyonce Everm4e ( talk) 04:58, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanks! I should point out that her albums were re-certified as well, most likely with the corresponding certification levels. IASF is 5× Platinum from 3×, 4 is 2× Platinum from Gold, B'Day is 2× Platinum from 1x, BEYONCÉ is 3× Platinum from 1×, and lastly Dangerously In Love is 3× Platinum. Everm4e ( talk) 06:04, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, Ik you've lowered Phil Collins' Portuguese certified sales because of his 2004 album Love Songs: A Compilation... Old and New, that album received 2× Platinum (80,000) in week 50 of 2004 which roughly translates to Dec. 6, 2004–Dec. 12, 2004, a mere 5 months before AFP lowered their cert thresholds in May, 2005, so it's pretty clear that the 2× Platinum of 80,000 units for Phil Collins' album are legitimate. Moh8213 ( talk) 11:44, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Lmao! Another failed attempt of me outsmarting someone else, anyway looks like you didn't notice it but in the same source it says his album Serious Hits... Live! was certified Platinum (40,000). Also just found out that his DVD which goes by the same name was certified Platinum (8,000) in 2011. Moh8213 ( talk) 12:49, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Madonna has revealed on ‘Jimmy Fallon’ that she actually sold over 400 million records and that the 300 million records figure is incorrect. These are claimed sales by the artist herself, and she is not pleased by the 300 million records figure. It's something to consider for any future update. Israell ( talk) 12:25, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Her being not pleased won't make us change the claimed sales to 400 million, still a third-party source is needed to include the 400 million, because we can't take artists/record labels words for granted. Either way, her current certified sales won't support the 400 million claimed sales, so we have to wait until Madonna's record label re-certifies all her records in the anglophone countries + other countries as well and then we'll decide whether the 400 million would be a match for her certified sales. Moh8213 ( talk) 12:50, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
400 million is still far from reach as of the moment for the Queen of Pop (well atleast based on the definition and criteria of this list). Loibird90 ( talk) 08:53, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
For the record, here are sources regarding Madonna's statement on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon: [2], [3]. And this just in... The Immaculate Collection has now been certified 13 times platinum in the UK: [ [4]]. Israell ( talk) 09:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
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Olivia Newton-John died on 8th August 2022, please update. 109.120.204.123 ( talk) 15:17, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Harout. Please look at this source https://www.the-sun.com/news/5990600/medusa-festival-collpase-spain-death-news/amp/ this source is the U.S edition from The Sun of UK but I think the contain of U.S edition is more reliable than the UK edition. Is it okay to use this source for temporary until I get the better one? What do you think?. Politsi ( talk) 17:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
So, I'm wondering if someone can explain something to me. I'm starting to read more about this talk page and the article, to be better versed in what is going on here. I was reading one of the talk page notices, it's this one:
One lead artist and one featured artist. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both, the lead artist and the featured artist as both will have almost equal amount of part).
Two lead artists. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both lead artists as both will have almost equal amount of part).
Two lead artists and one featured artist. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both lead artists as well as the featured artist. Both lead artists will play a significant part in a song and the part of the featured artist also should be significant enough).
One lead artist and two featured artists. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of the lead artist and to the total of both featured artists as almost all should have equal amount of part).
This is a notice informing editors how to apply sales from a multi-artist track, correct? So, because a song with one lead artist and two featured artists should have relatively equal contributions across the song, that the sales should go to each of them, correct? FrederalBacon ( talk) 03:44, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Harout. I begin to think that their 600m claim sales look too much and inflated. I will remove their 600m claim and let them just have only 500m claim for their sales. Thanks Politsi ( talk) 06:21, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
I was analyzing a little bit and I also consider that those sales figures of the Beatles and Elvis are inflated, I think that this should be objectively reevaluated. AteneaZ3 ( talk) 00:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
I tend to agree with @ Politsi. I think the list would be improved and more accurate if The Beatles' claimed sales were "only" 500M. However, how this change affects the list as a whole has to be taken into account. The Beatles' certified sales are 289.5M right now; however, Elvis Presley's current certified sales are 230.8M. There is a difference of almost 60M certified sales between the two music acts, so it would not be coherent if both had the same highest claimed sales figure of 500M. I admit that it may be a good idea to remove The Beatles' 600M figure, but then Presley's 500M figure would have to be removed as well, and there would have to be a discussion about what to do with Michael Jackson's 400M figure, or change other figures.
That would certainly be the right way to improve this list and achieve a more equal treatment for the artists. Otherwise there will always be more inflated figures for Rock music "classic" artists than for Pop music artists like Michael Jackson, Madonna or Elton John. For example, it is not proper that, taking into account that Elton John's certified sales are 206.9M and Presley's are 230.8M (which represents a difference of 23.9M), the highest claimed sales figure is 300M for John and 500M for Presley. 200M is a too big difference, and this also affects Madonna. Aside from that, I would also like to share this reference, which I think can be used to support The Beatles' 500M claimed sales figure. Salvabl ( talk) 20:26, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 42 | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | → | Archive 48 |
Harout. I Will remove her 170m claim because she's already at 152m in certified sales. Thanks. Politsi ( talk) 03:48, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
I think when Whitney reach 158 on her certified sales. Then we should remove her 170m claim. Politsi ( talk) 07:14, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't see much of a difference between 153m or 158m or 160m. As long as there is no source specifically supporting the 75% claim being made, I don't see any issues with the removal of Whitney's 170M claims. Sony has retrospectively certified her digital sales which has cumulated since digital download has begun. Furthermore, Chartmasters have tools to go to each streaming site’s database and there, 4.9m can be calculated. I also don’t see how the statement, “There is no way for an ordinary person…” supports or not support the topic at hand. TruthGuardians ( talk) 17:17, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Harout72, as you can see, I disagree with what you have added to the "Definitions" section of the list. I believe that, apart from the fact that there was no common consensus to add such a statement to the section, this even goes against previous agreements resulting from extensive discussions. One example: last June we reached a common consensus, after a complex discussion, that Elvis Presley's claimed sales will be increased to 600M when his certified sales reach 280M. Considering what you have now added to the "Definitions" section, it would be impossible. Salvabl ( talk) 19:52, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Apoxyomenus: Numbers and gap speaks. And as far I can see in Houston's case, I start to define that her discography is "short" (in terms of releases: albums/singles). Despite this, she sold a considerable amount of records. Those sales, however were concentrated in the 1980s and 1990s in both USA and overseas (and always, mostly in her native country). In the rest of her career for next decades, she was most of the times under her average both USA and mostly outside (with some exceptions). Overall, Houston could easily be in a "mid-category" of those artists with most of their sales in the USA (her USA-sales are the double of her abroad figures, after, during or before her death; and/or she didn't match her USA sales with those abroad).
I don't think user TheWikiholic's behavior is disruptive either. I find their concerns fair, enlightening, and thought provoking. When coming across random posts on various social media platforms, this Wikipedia page in particular, is always dismissed as biased on top of other reasons. I defended this article one time before and I was being called a racist and a sympathizer of sorts. But that’s getting a little off topic, I believe that a consensus isn’t going to be reached on this topic and instead of reporting each other for no reason, as I don’t think it will end as anyone think it will, I think we should take this discussion to the next level. We can get a vote going which will get others involved that will look at the available sources, or lack there of, to vote on a topic they won’t know anything about or pretend to, or we can reach a compromise. TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:29, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
I have made the following change in the statements that were added, now they would read: "Gold/Platinum certifications issued after 2016, especially on singles, are in some cases more than 50% streaming generated. It should be noted that 20th century artists can also have significant amount of streaming based certifications, therefore, consideration should be taken when changing or upgrading their claimed figures also when their certifications are affected by streaming". I believe we should at least have that much information about certs generated by streams.-- Harout72 ( talk) 00:38, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't Nana Mouskouri be mentioned here somewhere with around 350 million albums sold? 109.193.151.59 ( talk) 08:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Depeche Mode is missing. They have sold more than 100 million records worldwide. Sources: German link Billboard
(sources from their article):
Sony Music (in German) Official UK Charts
Best Regards-- 2A0C:D242:3803:2500:6D11:1C5E:5292:2FF9 ( talk) 13:30, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
I'm glad this dispute got settled, plus it's good that Harout shared the file cuz apparently, there are missing certs for Houston in which they are:
I understand the rule of only adding certs from certifying bodies, but I truly believe that those certs can definitely be an exception, especially given the fact that they're from the 1980s, hence, making it very unlikely that they will ever resurface in today's certification databases, and considering that they come from Billboard (a highly regarded music magazine), I think it's a pretty reliable source to use them too. Plus, I don't see it a problem since you're already using a Billboard magazine (issued in 2000) as a source for Julio Iglesias certs. As for Switzerland, Switzerland wasn't even featured at the December 1986 issue of Music & Media, and since the album was certified in 1986, it doesn't make sense for the cert to appear at the Dec. '87 issue. As for RIAA, if you check the certification of the song I Wanna Dance with Somebody in RIAA database, first Gold certification was received in July 28, 1987, when certification levels were Gold=1,000,000 and Platinum=2,000,000 then almost two years it received a Platinum certification in February 13, 1989, (when certs level were lowered to Gold=500,000 and Platinum=1,000,000 and that was the last time the single was certified until it was digitally certified in 2019. My point is that since single already recieved the Gold cert before the Jan 1989 cert level change, it doesn't make any sense to apply the newly lowered levels on that single. Moh8213 ( talk) 19:30, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Rihanna didn’t sell so many records, give us a break. She barely could sell a few million copies of her albums. Albums and singles sales should separated. 2001:B07:ADD:D42A:300D:7228:3272:DD2B ( talk) 16:55, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Hello, wondering if Missy Elliott and The Notorious BIG qualify to the list. How many records have they sold?
Btw, there are sources reporting that Shakira has sold 80 million records. Are her units enough? -- 132.191.0.206 ( talk) 23:16, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Now giving that his label have re-certified his catalogue in the US, is it possible to move him to the 250m club with at least 250m in claimed sales? Moh8213 ( talk) 18:03, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi ! In this article, Johnny Hallyday is noted to have sold 80 million albums, while on his page , he is said to have sold more than 110 million. Is there a reason for this discrepancy? The source on his page looks more recent (2018, vs 2017 for the one here), but even the success of his posthumous albums doesn’t explain a discrepancy of 30 million… Nephanth ( talk) 09:53, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Being publicly reported all over the place but his team just got millions of certifications added and this list likely needs some updating 73.128.107.230 ( talk) 04:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
I’m attempting to figure out if certifications are being counted twice nowadays. For example, One Dance by Drake certified 8 times platinum by RIAA mostly due to streaming. Do you think it was included for the album’s certifications Views along with the other singles from that album, while calculating its Album equivalent sales? If so, isn't that considered counting the same streams twice, or am I tripping or misunderstanding something here? TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:13, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
Harout, So are you saying that when we calculate the EAS it doesn’t separately count the streams of singles? Precisely the streamings of all the tracks from an album except singles? It appears that this rolling stone article says otherwise. In this article, the columnist, Tim Ingham, observed the figure of Drakes Scorpion and found that 63% of the albums streams on Spotify came from just three songs off the 25 track albums. Additionally, only six songs accounted for 82% of the album's total streams, meaning that only a quarter of the songs determines the overall success of the album in terms of album-equivalent unit. From the above article, what I understand is once a single has 150M streams in USA RIAA certified it platinum. The same single turns 1.5B streams in the USA the RIAA certified the album in which the single included certify for platinum for its album-equivalent units. It doesn’t need other tracks from the same album to perform as well. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Is that your understanding of the RollingStones article as well?.—÷ TheWikiholic ( talk) 17:30, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Okay, so I have reached out to RIAA and received a response from a certification specialist. This was her reply to me: “We’re always happy to help all the RIAA standards are on our website and they’re very explicit and clear —you can count single sales and streams in the United States towards a single award and you can also count TEA’s and album sales towards an album award since 2016. We’re very explicit about it on our website.” I think this is quite clear. TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:28, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
There seems to be only one reply by Liz Kennedy, in both, correct? The one you quoted above? Did she reply to your question about whether albums certifications include streams/sales of singles also? That reply doesn't seem to on either of the scans.-- Harout72 ( talk) 15:18, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Harout72 When they say album streams count towards album streams it means they count streams of all the tracks for an album. That's why they specified "you can also count TEA's and album sales towards an album award since 2016". It means they count streams of singles+non singles. Literally when a single hits 150M streams in the USA the song is eligible for platinum certification by RIAA and if the same song hit 1.5B streams in the USA, the album associated with that song will be eligible for the platinum certification.
For instance, Michael Jackson's Thriller album was certified two times platinum in 2016 after RIAA added streams and audio downloads to album certifications. As of today, Thriller has around 6B streams from Youtube and Spotify. There are 9 tracks on Thriller and 7 out of 9 are released as singles. The views of both songs Lady In My Life and Baby Be Mine haven’t reached 10M even when combine today, so we can assume that if we go back to 2016 and remove the streaming of singles, the album would never certify based on the streaming of these two tracks. Similarly, in the UK and Germany, they count the streaming of singles for both single certifications and album certifications but give a certain percentage of weightage for the top two successful singles before calculating the EAS.— TheWikiholic ( talk) 17:20, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Liz’s exact words to me were “Yes, TEA and SEA are included in the tally and albums associated with singles are counted towards certification.” If there is still any confusion about what the website says, I would recommend you guys reach out to Liz as well. She did a phenomenal job at answering all of my questions and clear up all gray areas. Best time to contact her is Monday through Friday, 8am-noon EST for a possible immediate same day response. TruthGuardians ( talk) 01:40, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Harout. He has more than 134m in certified sales. What do you think if I raise his claim to 160m by using this source https://ew.com/movies/piano-man-with-no-piano-man-billy-joel-biopic/. Thanks Politsi ( talk) 15:58, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, long time no see. Could u send me U2's file? Moh8213 ( talk) 14:07, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
Why aren't rolling stones at the top of this list? They've sold over 250 million records. 2A00:23C6:AB83:3701:5D5E:58DD:79EF:ED4 ( talk) 12:54, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
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The Police's Synchronicty album was certified platinum for the sales of 500,000 in Italy in 1983 by the Associazione dei Fonografici Italiani (AFI), before it was know as The Federazione Industria Musicale Italiana (FIMI), links to support the claims. [1] [2] [3] 2601:346:E80:A380:D50:EF45:A2AF:35EC ( talk) 16:14, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Le vendite dei vari artisti sono state verificate da una apposita society di certificazione (la Ernst & Whinney) per conto dell'AFI, che insieme ai Comune di Genova sponsorizza la manifestazione. .... Altri collagamenti con i Police e Julio Iglesias (dischi di platino rispettivamente per Syncronicity e Momenti)
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Unless certs are directly provided by the certifying bodies, we can't use them. I personally can't locate anything in those sources that speaks about certs.-- Harout72 ( talk) 01:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Depeche Mode is missing. They have sold more than 100 million records worldwide. Sources: German link Billboard
(sources from their article):
Sony Music (in German) Official UK Charts
Best Regards-- 2A0C:D242:3804:8A00:1F:B044:2077:9423 ( talk) 08:40, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
It seems like you have a lot of guts to try for a 3rd time, looks like I've to settle this once and for all. Depeche Mode admittedly do have sold lots of records, though most of the music markets that they've sold are pretty small markets, therefore, their total certified sales can't support the 100 million records claim, let alone 75 million. And so, here's a detailed response for ur request. Try for a 4th time and u might get urself blocked from editing in Wikipedia. Moh8213 ( talk) 12:17, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
They have around 27,7 million certified units, more than e.g. Johnny Hallyday. They also are on the German list. You can also look at their discography site on Wikipedia.-- 2A0C:D242:3804:8A00:7582:DE81:921:7B6D ( talk) 10:05, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Since Mariah is now at 220m, what level of new certifications should be acquired to make her among the 250 million group ? @Fidelove @Harout? any answer?
Hey Harout, hope you're doing well, I've been busy lately so I couldn't check U2's certs, but now since I've got time now I've analysed the file and here's what I've found:
UK (Singles):
Germany (DVDs):
Netherlands (Albums):
(DVDs):
(Singles):
(Btw u forgot to include Sunday Bloody Sunday (100,000) to the total sales)
Argentina (Albums):
Brazil: It seems like there is a miscalculation on the Brazilian certs (specifically on DVDs), after I've recalculated them along with albums & singles, the total sales came to 1,800,000 certified sales.
New Zealand (Albums):
Denmark (Albums):
(Source via Music & Media magazine p.11, issued on May 21, 1988)
(Source via Music & Media magazine p. 7, issued on March 4, 1989)
Norway (albums):
(Source via M&M magazine p. 4, issued on August 28, 1993)
Portugal (albums):
(Since the album was released in 2004, the correct figure for the 3× Plat. is 120,000) Moh8213 ( talk) 09:25, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Great, though I still believe that those M&M sources are reliable enough to be included on this list. Take a look at this magazine from March 4, 1989 for example, on p. 7, it says that Sonet executives from Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland recently gathered at U2's office in Dublin to present to present gold albums from each territory for "Rattle and Rum" out of those 4 countries only 2 ( Sweden & Finland) have certification databases that can go back to the 1980s, and if you check their databases, you'll find the gold certifications for Rattle and Rum; therefore, making it highly possible that those other certs for Denmark & Norway are legit. As for Portugal, this is where I found the cert for The Best of 1980-1990 go down and you'll find a section in first row where it says "Álbuns mais vendidos em Portugal", click on that and there you'll find those certs, and in the bottom of those certs, there is sentence that says Fonte. AFP. Which translates to Source. AFP. and so I think that source is reliable too to use on this list. Moh8213 ( talk) 08:51, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Alright, I guess it's all said and done, though one small thing regarding Brazilian certs is that you've listed both U2 Go Home: Live from Slane Castle, Ireland and Vertigo 2005: Live from Chicago Diamonds with 500,000 units each, when in reality; according to Pro-Música Brasil, the Diamond certifications for DVDs until 2005 where 100,000 units, same things goes to PopMart: Live from Mexico City and Elevation 2001: Live from Boston both of 'em listed as Gold with 50,000 units while it's correct figure in 25,000 units, and The Best of 1990-2000 Video is 50,000 units not 125,000. Taking all this into account, the total certified sales along with albums and singles is 1,800,000 units. One thing I'm not sure is that while the Vertigo DVD was released in 2005, it was certified Diamond in 2006, when the cert level was changed, idk if they certify records based on release date or not but yeah other than that, there's nothing else missing. Moh8213 ( talk) 15:30, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
From here, seems like they're the same website but mine's from 2010, now one of them is telling the truth and the other is lying, and tbh I'd put my money on the 2010 site cuz it looks more logical to me. Moh8213 ( talk) 10:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
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Tobiasvikholt ( talk) 09:20, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
Queen is also one of the best selling bands ever. They have sold from 170million to 300 million albums. Sorce: https://no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen
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Change Madonna’s record sales from 300 million to 335 million.
According to Guinness world records. Madonna’s record sales stand at 335 million. This is a more recent and more valid source than the current sources supporting the current figure on Madonna’s record sales.
To increase the validity of this article, this should be updated. Hughie2000 ( talk) 13:46, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
Actually despite those 335 million records on Guiness Records (a number that is there for quite a few years) Madonna album sales alone were 75 million in US plus another 200 million in the rest of the world for a total 275 million albums worldwide as 2009 already. For her total records you need to add here the singles, maxi-singles and digital songs (estimated to be over 200 million by many other sources). Here is the link: https://books.google.gr/books?id=EX4yD1pJCxUC&pg=RA11-PA62&lpg=RA11-PA62&dq=warner+madonna+billboard+75+million+records&source=bl&ots=lj1TASkRAE&sig=ACfU3U2NnMOmAyAEwwQefA6uH-1QJNM4tA&hl=el&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjUyOfozcj1AhWRQvEDHWiFCP0Q6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q=warner%20madonna%20billboard%2075%20million%20records&f=false
Guiness Records were reporting Madonna 300 million records for many years until 2014 they decided to add to it her digital song sales that were over 35 million at the time (and over 50 million by now) but they didn't even updated Madonna numbers verifying again with her label.
Madonna record sales are being reported to be over 300 million records since the year 2000 and she sold way over 100 million albums, singles and digital songs since. Hopefully new reports by Warner Records happen in 2022 year since is Madonna 40 carreer anniversary you can update this list that is full of mistakes.
Not sure why on this article some artists only have Album sales numbers and others have physicial singles too and even others have digital songs too. Shouldn't there be some kind of division here? Selling 1 digital song it's not the same as selling 1 album (that for chart purposes even is equivaleted to 10 digital songs or vice-versa). For example, Rihanna despite bing the best selling digital songs artist only sold 35 million albums (that's even half the number of albums Adele sold). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.94.23.209 ( talk) 14:00, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Why is the list arranged by claimed sales? It should strictly be arranged by certified sales, not claims. As noted with the Depeche Mode section above, the claims can be much higher than the certified units. I do want to change this. The Top 5 would remain largely unaffected but it does cause problems down the bottom. skelter ( talk) 19:27, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Actually it should NOT be about certified sales as artist with more albums that sold almost enough for a new certification but not quite did those amounts (like Elvis Presley) despite not being certified and could be beloow other artists. Also as Record Labels need to pay to ask for certifications in most world countries this would untruthly put some artists ahead of others when they sold less. Do you really believe that albums released in the 60's, 70's or 80's didn't sell more later? Because most of them never got a new certification (and some records are even in need for 2 or 3 new certifications in dozens of countries). Some albums released before Soundscan in US already sold over 2 million copies since they were last certified by RIAA and that's why claimed sales exist. If only certified sales are used the list will NEVER be real.
There should be 2 or 3 lists here as we can't compare 1 Album with 1 Single or 1 digital song - it's not the same, even for chart purposes 10 digital songs = 1 album.
Even physical singles have at least 2 songs and most even have 4 or more (and cost as much as 4 digital songs or sometimes even more) being totally fake to compare them as 1 record on the same list.
Artists like Drake sold a lot digital songs but less than 45 million albums each - yet he appears on the list side by side with artists that sold over 150 or 200 million Albums. The same goes for artists like Rihanna, Katy Perry or Lady Gaga that sold less than 35 million albums so far worldwide. Yet Adele sold over 70 million albums and where is she?
I propose to create 3 lists: albums, singles and digital songs. The "RECORDS" category now doesn't make much sense. Before where 3x or 4 x physical singles and 2 x 12" singles(cd-maxi-single) would be more or less the same as 1 album it was less problematic but now when 10 x Digital Songs are the same as 1 album and are still considered "1 RECORD" it makes much less sense to use "Records" as it only distorts reality completely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.94.23.209 ( talk) 14:18, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Michael Jackson is the most certified solo artist from the pre-streaming era, this should be highlighted in the article. Very disingenuous to reference Elvis as the best selling solo artist by unverifiable ‘claimed sales’ figures while ignoring the elephant in the room that is Michael Jackson. Drake and his streaming numbers should not even be in the lede. 109.38.157.229 ( talk) 09:45, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
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Green day should be on this list. They used to be at 75m, but they were removed for some reason. They should be added to the 85m list, as they have sold more than 85,000,000 worldwide.
They've been active 1987-Present.
Ref: https://greenday.fm/charts/album-sales/
Also seen on Rock and Roll HoF page, billboard, and many others. This is easily verified. 47.197.33.241 ( talk) 15:24, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
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add Green Day to the list as they have sold 85 million albums according to all these sources [1] [2] [3] [4] 2601:346:E80:A380:2415:5DD1:3805:95C6 ( talk) 18:37, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion about Green Day right above this.-- Harout72 ( talk) 12:52, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Just noticed that "Bicycle Race" was certified Platinum by the RIAA. For some reason it was certified gold and platinum on the same day, May 23rd. My guess is their record was outdated. This should bring Queen up to 170.5 million certified worldwide.
ChimChamIt'sAScam05 (talk) 03:01, 26 May 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChimChamIt'sAScam05 ( talk • contribs)
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Queen should be moved to the 250 Million and more section. Numerous online articles refer to their sales as above 300 Million records including:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonthompson/2018/12/10/queens-bohemian-rhapsody-is-officially-the-worlds-most-streamed-song/?sh=3e674498c1f0 https://metalshout.com/all-queen-albums-in-order-according-to-sales/ https://www.escapistmagazine.com/brian-may-says-queen-rock-band-may-happen/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-queen-stamps-idUKKBN23U1ZW https://fresco.vc/5-business-lessons-from-the-music-of-queen/ 67.197.92.38 ( talk) 18:33, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, could you send me Coldplay's file? Moh8213 ( talk) 19:25, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Australia
(Listed in ur file as 11× Platinum)
Canada
(Listed in ur file as Platinum)
(Listed in ur file as Gold)
Japan
Mexico
(Note: the certification for this album is separate as the other one is for the Pre-loaded album) Also the correct figure for the pre-loaded album is 1,200,000 not 1,120,000.
New Zealand
Sweden
Switzerland
Portugal
(The Viva la Vida album was actually certified 2× Platinum in 2012 but there isn't any archived chart from 2012, fortunately though, the album re-entered the chart again in 2019 where you can still see the 2× Platinum cert.)
Oops, sorry for the inconvenience. Here you go. I guess other than that so far everything's going on track, tho I think it's worth mentioning that Coldplay & BTS' single My Universe has recently been certified Platinum (70,000) in Australia back in April. Moh8213 ( talk) 19:33, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, I don't know if you've updated this but the song Something Just Like This has recently been certified 13x Platinum (910,000) in Australia. Moh8213 ( talk) 10:25, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, hope you're doing well, do you think it's possible for David Guetta and Enrique Iglesias to be included with claimed sales of at least 75 million? According to my calculation I did few months ago, David Guetta has certified sales of over 20 million in the UK, 15 million in the US, 8 million in Germany, 5 million in France and so on, and I'm sure Guetta has sold well in other small markets too. I didn't go over Iglesias certified sales but I assume he has sold well enough for him to be included into the list, what's your thoughts on it? Moh8213 ( talk) 15:38, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout. I saw some figures for their career sales at 200 million by reliable sources. How many certified sales do they need for their claimed sales to increase? Thank you. Loibird90 ( talk) 09:12, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Please Celine's figures are up to 250 million confirmed by multiple reliable sources, she also sold 50 million albums only in Europe, so how is she at only 200 million? Moonlight Entm ( talk) 22:08, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
First off the certified units are not even updated, you can see any celine dion record sales analysis and the figure is up to even more than 250m, that was the first published and most reliable source of Celine Dion sales, it was reported by their label, inflated sales are really the one that losts of artists have here like Rihanna, when its clear that Celine Dion is the second best-selling female artist of all time after Madonna, it's a fact, there's no sense in putting Mariah or Whitney above her cause its well known that she's best seller out of the 3. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 00:19, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
You're so hypocritical to your statement, then why you removed Ariana's 90 million claim who has certified more than 130 million and 90 comes closer to that claim. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 21:07, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Literally a whole other editors have been calling me that dumb and bitch, and i've never seen an editor telling them to remain civil. The gamer is a reliable source, its a game news operated by korea naver, Ariana got her own fornite concert so it was mostly to a press release, so it can be consider 95% reliable. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 04:35, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Also Ariana Grande "85 million" claim came from her usa certified sales, she has sold 85.5 million copies in the united states and there you go here calling it "worlwide" everywhere in wikipedia, 85 million was made up by an user and since then a lot sources started putting in articles cause they got from here, so unless a label report then we can put it here or in her wikipedia. Moonlight Entm ( talk) 04:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
The picture of Bruce should be put above the U2 one, as the chart says RealSonny ( talk) 12:38, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Yourlocallordandsavior ( talk) 07:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Gaga's 124m figure is outdated. Here is a source for 170m which her certs easily support:
https://www.attitude.co.uk/article/lady-gaga-became-singer-after-multiple-failed-acting-auditions/19231/ SpearsRR ( talk) 18:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
It can't be true. Faked. 46.251.91.133 ( talk) 09:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Harout. Any update from Green Day?. Thanks Politsi ( talk) 09:02, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
So about Iron Maiden? They sold 100 million plus!!! With total sales up to 200 millions!!! Number of the Beast alone sold 20 millions!!! 94.62.4.8 ( talk) 23:34, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Question... On Kylie album discovraphy page... It noted her having aprox 80 million sales...why does this not allow her to reflect on this list. 105.186.102.119 ( talk) 20:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
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please include Juan Gabriel, he sold 150million copies according to the Grammys and CNN https://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2018/08/28/la-carrera-musical-de-juan-gabriel-en-numeros/ 2806:2F0:51E0:C0AB:CDE7:3A5A:D676:704E ( talk) 22:48, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
If you sum up physical and digital sales certified only in US and UK he surpasses 220 mi and gets a place in the first group, no doubt. Gabrielfmachado ( talk) 04:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
Do you happen to known what are Michael Bublé's certified units? Outlets like The Irish Times have reported sales of over 75 million records. Thanks, -- Apoxyomenus ( talk) 03:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Got it -- Apoxyomenus ( talk) 22:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
How come this mediocre singer ended up in the top-selling artists list? 46.251.84.165 ( talk) 16:59, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Can someone explain Rihanna's "Total certified unit sales" which supposedly is at 334.8 million (which would make her the best-selling music artist of all time by certified unit sales)?
I checked the U.S. sales numbers according to the provided source and the numbers seem completely off compared to what is claimed in this article. But maybe I'm missing something? Adriano 7 ( talk) 15:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
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Please make it right drake is not number one in sales that goes to Eminem by far so please change where it says drake is number one 38.34.83.22 ( talk) 00:15, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
A Billboard article published in 2019 reported that P!nk has already sold 135 million records worldwide. Is her current standings enough to raise her claimed sales now?
Link: https://www.billboard.com/pro/pink-legend-live-award-2019/ Loibird90 ( talk) 13:47, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Oh okay, thank you :) Loibird90 ( talk) 15:40, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
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Please change the error it says drake is the 2nd yet Eminem has sold over 100 million more records than drake so how can drake be the 2nd to Elvis when Eminem is proven to have sold more than drake 38.34.83.22 ( talk) 15:21, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Hi. I would like to ask how many certified sales does it take for Michael Bolton to be listed under 75 million sales claim? Thank you. Loibird90 ( talk) 00:05, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Here are the sources for I found for the 75 million claim:
• https://www.musichall.org/events/Grammy-Award-Winner-Michael-Bolton • https://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/2019030170324/michael-bolton-talks-challenges-faced-aspiring-singer/%3fviewas=amp • https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/5649700/michael-bolton-age-net-worth/amp/ Loibird90 ( talk) 01:33, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Here are the other sources I also found:
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/05/michael-bolton-is-back-in-the-spotlight-as-a-contestant-on-nbcs-american-song-contest.html%3foutputType=amp/amp/ Loibird90 ( talk) 01:39, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Between 11/11/2022 and 8/9/2022, Beyoncé's solo catalogue was given a massive certification update by Music Canada. I believe the database was just updated with the plaques from November. I think this warrants an update to the outdated 3M figure. I estimated the total sales to be at around 6.580 million, but I could be mistaken.
https://musiccanada.com/gold-platinum/?_gp_search=%20Beyonce Everm4e ( talk) 04:58, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanks! I should point out that her albums were re-certified as well, most likely with the corresponding certification levels. IASF is 5× Platinum from 3×, 4 is 2× Platinum from Gold, B'Day is 2× Platinum from 1x, BEYONCÉ is 3× Platinum from 1×, and lastly Dangerously In Love is 3× Platinum. Everm4e ( talk) 06:04, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Hey Harout, Ik you've lowered Phil Collins' Portuguese certified sales because of his 2004 album Love Songs: A Compilation... Old and New, that album received 2× Platinum (80,000) in week 50 of 2004 which roughly translates to Dec. 6, 2004–Dec. 12, 2004, a mere 5 months before AFP lowered their cert thresholds in May, 2005, so it's pretty clear that the 2× Platinum of 80,000 units for Phil Collins' album are legitimate. Moh8213 ( talk) 11:44, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Lmao! Another failed attempt of me outsmarting someone else, anyway looks like you didn't notice it but in the same source it says his album Serious Hits... Live! was certified Platinum (40,000). Also just found out that his DVD which goes by the same name was certified Platinum (8,000) in 2011. Moh8213 ( talk) 12:49, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Madonna has revealed on ‘Jimmy Fallon’ that she actually sold over 400 million records and that the 300 million records figure is incorrect. These are claimed sales by the artist herself, and she is not pleased by the 300 million records figure. It's something to consider for any future update. Israell ( talk) 12:25, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Her being not pleased won't make us change the claimed sales to 400 million, still a third-party source is needed to include the 400 million, because we can't take artists/record labels words for granted. Either way, her current certified sales won't support the 400 million claimed sales, so we have to wait until Madonna's record label re-certifies all her records in the anglophone countries + other countries as well and then we'll decide whether the 400 million would be a match for her certified sales. Moh8213 ( talk) 12:50, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
400 million is still far from reach as of the moment for the Queen of Pop (well atleast based on the definition and criteria of this list). Loibird90 ( talk) 08:53, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
For the record, here are sources regarding Madonna's statement on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon: [2], [3]. And this just in... The Immaculate Collection has now been certified 13 times platinum in the UK: [ [4]]. Israell ( talk) 09:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
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Olivia Newton-John died on 8th August 2022, please update. 109.120.204.123 ( talk) 15:17, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Harout. Please look at this source https://www.the-sun.com/news/5990600/medusa-festival-collpase-spain-death-news/amp/ this source is the U.S edition from The Sun of UK but I think the contain of U.S edition is more reliable than the UK edition. Is it okay to use this source for temporary until I get the better one? What do you think?. Politsi ( talk) 17:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
So, I'm wondering if someone can explain something to me. I'm starting to read more about this talk page and the article, to be better versed in what is going on here. I was reading one of the talk page notices, it's this one:
One lead artist and one featured artist. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both, the lead artist and the featured artist as both will have almost equal amount of part).
Two lead artists. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both lead artists as both will have almost equal amount of part).
Two lead artists and one featured artist. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of both lead artists as well as the featured artist. Both lead artists will play a significant part in a song and the part of the featured artist also should be significant enough).
One lead artist and two featured artists. (The issued certification(s) should be added to the total of the lead artist and to the total of both featured artists as almost all should have equal amount of part).
This is a notice informing editors how to apply sales from a multi-artist track, correct? So, because a song with one lead artist and two featured artists should have relatively equal contributions across the song, that the sales should go to each of them, correct? FrederalBacon ( talk) 03:44, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Harout. I begin to think that their 600m claim sales look too much and inflated. I will remove their 600m claim and let them just have only 500m claim for their sales. Thanks Politsi ( talk) 06:21, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
I was analyzing a little bit and I also consider that those sales figures of the Beatles and Elvis are inflated, I think that this should be objectively reevaluated. AteneaZ3 ( talk) 00:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
I tend to agree with @ Politsi. I think the list would be improved and more accurate if The Beatles' claimed sales were "only" 500M. However, how this change affects the list as a whole has to be taken into account. The Beatles' certified sales are 289.5M right now; however, Elvis Presley's current certified sales are 230.8M. There is a difference of almost 60M certified sales between the two music acts, so it would not be coherent if both had the same highest claimed sales figure of 500M. I admit that it may be a good idea to remove The Beatles' 600M figure, but then Presley's 500M figure would have to be removed as well, and there would have to be a discussion about what to do with Michael Jackson's 400M figure, or change other figures.
That would certainly be the right way to improve this list and achieve a more equal treatment for the artists. Otherwise there will always be more inflated figures for Rock music "classic" artists than for Pop music artists like Michael Jackson, Madonna or Elton John. For example, it is not proper that, taking into account that Elton John's certified sales are 206.9M and Presley's are 230.8M (which represents a difference of 23.9M), the highest claimed sales figure is 300M for John and 500M for Presley. 200M is a too big difference, and this also affects Madonna. Aside from that, I would also like to share this reference, which I think can be used to support The Beatles' 500M claimed sales figure. Salvabl ( talk) 20:26, 7 August 2022 (UTC)