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For the non-traditional counties -
So are we going to have an Etymological list of non-traditional counties of the United Kingdom? Note that it would need to also contain unitary authorities. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 20:04, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Have incoproated the above. Are there any others you can think of? -- Graham ☺ | Talk 20:47, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
These two have been reverted back to their original edit from what Kennth Alan had changed them to. The Canton link from Kent made no sense whatsoever, and the origin of the name is disputed by most scholars anyway. And the York article, under etymology, states: This city was originally named by the Celts after the Yew tree. I have therefore also altered the language for York from Old Norse to Brythonic. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 13:15, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Please note that I didn't revert anything (to revert is to wipe out all your edits, which I did not). Please also note that I am working here from referenced sources. You don't appear to understand that although the Celts lost power in England about 1,500 - 2,000 years ago there are still Celtic place names here and there; the fact that the Celtic power was extinguished in York 1,500 years ago does not mean the place name went with it: the Romans, Anglo-Saxons and Vikings all dominated this country by doing the same thing: by intermingling with the existing population and by allowing the local population to hold on to their identity. The York article agrees with me, as does the Oxford Dictionary of Place Names.
I didn't say, by the way, that there wasn't an obvious link between Kent and Canton, just that the latter link didn't make sense. Any person following the Canton link wondering why it's the origin of the word Kent would be left wondering forever after, as there is no relevant meaning on the Canton disambig page. There either needs to be an explanation for the link between Centurions and borders in a separate article linked from Canton (in which case the Canton link should then be disambiguated to it) or you need to find a shorter way of expressing the link for this article.
As for the Orkos origin of Orkney, I hope the current explanation is satisfactory. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 16:50, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Land of hosts and armies is insufficient for an explanation of Kent. I gave you the obvious words related to Kent.
And I've told you what you need to do in order to amend it so that it's correct.
The convention that I have used throughout this article is that, for example, the name Orkney is an Old Norse name. However the whole article is about looking at the origins of all the words used, so leaving the explanation for Orkney as "Islands of the Orkos" and then not ofering any further explanation (which is how you left it) will not suffice because the questioner then asks, "well what does the word Orkos mean?" Throughout the article the origin of all the words used is explained in full and the origin for Orkos needs to remain.
With York, indeed Jorvik was an Old Norse name meaning "boar Viking", which is how you left it, but I don't believe that that is enough. I would then want to know why it's called boar Viking, and the explanation is that when the Vikings arrived and heard the old name for York being pronounced by the locals, they thought they heard the Old Norse word for boar, when in fact they were hearing the Celtic word for a yew tree. This is interesting information, and I believe it deserves bandwidth in this article. I'll amend it so that it inclues the compound between the two languages, which is what it is.
I think you're personalising this discussion too much now, and there's just no need for it. I haven't set out to insult you but if you're going to take part in academic discussions and challenges in this manner, then you should expect your viewpoint to be challenged. If this is too much for you to cope with then you shouldn't be editing here at all. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 20:06, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
To Graham. Actually the Norse settlers heard the Old English 'Eoforwic' (meaning 'Boar's Dwelling') not the Romano-British 'Eboracum' or Brythonic 'Eborakon' (Though the English obviously heard the previous name and adapted it to their own language). And the 'Vik' does not mean 'Viking' it generally means 'bay'. The 'Jor' is just a mishearing, though it has been claimed to mean Horse...but that doesn't sit well with me (Hross is Old Norse for Horse, by the way). The Norse version was just a mispronounced 'Eofurwic'...adapted to 'Jorvik' and then to 'York'. Sigurd Dragon Slayer
The isle of Wight: a place of division? I always thought wight arose from Wihtgar, the first king of the isle of wight? I may be wrong, so nothing has been altered, but can anyone disprove this? 62.64.129.213 01:41, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I was surprised by this as downs are chalk hills, open and largely treeless. Cf. Old English dun and Welsh dwn. Wetman 07:29, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The current English names for the counties are all very well handled, but what about the etymology of the Welsh names for Welsh counties, Scots and Gaelic names for Scottish counties or Ullans and Gaelic names for the Six Counties? I can take a look for the Welsh ones, but wouldn't know where to start in Scotland or Ireland (I couldn't even name all six Counties and know next to nothing about Scotland). Anyone? :o) — OwenBlacker 19:06, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
Does anyone object to me splitting up the list by which country the counties are in - England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland (if there are any listed here)? I think it would make the list slightly easier to read or to find counties of. (PS: I don't mean seperate articles, just seperate tables) -- Joolz 19:10, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Two years late, but I have put it back in one list as concluded above. WP practice prefers the one list. Academically it also makes for a more useful comparison. Howard Alexander ( talk) 00:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
This page seems to contain factual errors, (e.g. Wiltshire is named after Wilton, which is named after the river Wylye). I'll try to correct what I can, but some of the names have disputed origins.-- Dumbo1 18:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I have revised the entries for Scottish shires. I've tried to add rather than replace - even when some of the suggested toponyms are entirely alien to me, I've left them in place and added other possibilites which are (I believe) more generally accepted. My two main sources for this were Watson's The Celitic Place-names Of Scoland and the 2003 survey of place names carried out for the Scottish Parliament. I will gladly discuss any problems anybody has with any of my edits. Lianachan 18:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Please do not mix the three countries and one province of the UK. This administrative system (defunct in one of the countries) is distinct in each country and the linguistic stories, besides predating the UK mostly by over a millennium, don't make sense grouped. It also may confuse people into thinking that a county system is directly under the UK, when it is not and never has been. It's also harder to edit btw, another important point. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 16:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
What does that mean? — Tamfang ( talk) 21:35, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Or perhaps I should put it more bluntly: Ancienterritory is not a word. It isn't two words either, due to a 't' deficiency. This sequence of letters appears in this article. It also appears in precisely the same "list of counties of the UK" context in these apparently cloned odd ball nether regions of the Internet:
My opinion that it isn't a word seems to be well supported by the complete absence of any other appearances on the Internet. It has to go (perhaps like the ancient territories it tries to describe). I didn't just immediately edit or delete it, because it looks like this Talk page needs something on which we all agree. ChrisJBenson ( talk) 10:12, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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For the non-traditional counties -
So are we going to have an Etymological list of non-traditional counties of the United Kingdom? Note that it would need to also contain unitary authorities. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 20:04, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Have incoproated the above. Are there any others you can think of? -- Graham ☺ | Talk 20:47, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
These two have been reverted back to their original edit from what Kennth Alan had changed them to. The Canton link from Kent made no sense whatsoever, and the origin of the name is disputed by most scholars anyway. And the York article, under etymology, states: This city was originally named by the Celts after the Yew tree. I have therefore also altered the language for York from Old Norse to Brythonic. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 13:15, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Please note that I didn't revert anything (to revert is to wipe out all your edits, which I did not). Please also note that I am working here from referenced sources. You don't appear to understand that although the Celts lost power in England about 1,500 - 2,000 years ago there are still Celtic place names here and there; the fact that the Celtic power was extinguished in York 1,500 years ago does not mean the place name went with it: the Romans, Anglo-Saxons and Vikings all dominated this country by doing the same thing: by intermingling with the existing population and by allowing the local population to hold on to their identity. The York article agrees with me, as does the Oxford Dictionary of Place Names.
I didn't say, by the way, that there wasn't an obvious link between Kent and Canton, just that the latter link didn't make sense. Any person following the Canton link wondering why it's the origin of the word Kent would be left wondering forever after, as there is no relevant meaning on the Canton disambig page. There either needs to be an explanation for the link between Centurions and borders in a separate article linked from Canton (in which case the Canton link should then be disambiguated to it) or you need to find a shorter way of expressing the link for this article.
As for the Orkos origin of Orkney, I hope the current explanation is satisfactory. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 16:50, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Land of hosts and armies is insufficient for an explanation of Kent. I gave you the obvious words related to Kent.
And I've told you what you need to do in order to amend it so that it's correct.
The convention that I have used throughout this article is that, for example, the name Orkney is an Old Norse name. However the whole article is about looking at the origins of all the words used, so leaving the explanation for Orkney as "Islands of the Orkos" and then not ofering any further explanation (which is how you left it) will not suffice because the questioner then asks, "well what does the word Orkos mean?" Throughout the article the origin of all the words used is explained in full and the origin for Orkos needs to remain.
With York, indeed Jorvik was an Old Norse name meaning "boar Viking", which is how you left it, but I don't believe that that is enough. I would then want to know why it's called boar Viking, and the explanation is that when the Vikings arrived and heard the old name for York being pronounced by the locals, they thought they heard the Old Norse word for boar, when in fact they were hearing the Celtic word for a yew tree. This is interesting information, and I believe it deserves bandwidth in this article. I'll amend it so that it inclues the compound between the two languages, which is what it is.
I think you're personalising this discussion too much now, and there's just no need for it. I haven't set out to insult you but if you're going to take part in academic discussions and challenges in this manner, then you should expect your viewpoint to be challenged. If this is too much for you to cope with then you shouldn't be editing here at all. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 20:06, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
To Graham. Actually the Norse settlers heard the Old English 'Eoforwic' (meaning 'Boar's Dwelling') not the Romano-British 'Eboracum' or Brythonic 'Eborakon' (Though the English obviously heard the previous name and adapted it to their own language). And the 'Vik' does not mean 'Viking' it generally means 'bay'. The 'Jor' is just a mishearing, though it has been claimed to mean Horse...but that doesn't sit well with me (Hross is Old Norse for Horse, by the way). The Norse version was just a mispronounced 'Eofurwic'...adapted to 'Jorvik' and then to 'York'. Sigurd Dragon Slayer
The isle of Wight: a place of division? I always thought wight arose from Wihtgar, the first king of the isle of wight? I may be wrong, so nothing has been altered, but can anyone disprove this? 62.64.129.213 01:41, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I was surprised by this as downs are chalk hills, open and largely treeless. Cf. Old English dun and Welsh dwn. Wetman 07:29, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The current English names for the counties are all very well handled, but what about the etymology of the Welsh names for Welsh counties, Scots and Gaelic names for Scottish counties or Ullans and Gaelic names for the Six Counties? I can take a look for the Welsh ones, but wouldn't know where to start in Scotland or Ireland (I couldn't even name all six Counties and know next to nothing about Scotland). Anyone? :o) — OwenBlacker 19:06, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
Does anyone object to me splitting up the list by which country the counties are in - England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland (if there are any listed here)? I think it would make the list slightly easier to read or to find counties of. (PS: I don't mean seperate articles, just seperate tables) -- Joolz 19:10, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Two years late, but I have put it back in one list as concluded above. WP practice prefers the one list. Academically it also makes for a more useful comparison. Howard Alexander ( talk) 00:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
This page seems to contain factual errors, (e.g. Wiltshire is named after Wilton, which is named after the river Wylye). I'll try to correct what I can, but some of the names have disputed origins.-- Dumbo1 18:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I have revised the entries for Scottish shires. I've tried to add rather than replace - even when some of the suggested toponyms are entirely alien to me, I've left them in place and added other possibilites which are (I believe) more generally accepted. My two main sources for this were Watson's The Celitic Place-names Of Scoland and the 2003 survey of place names carried out for the Scottish Parliament. I will gladly discuss any problems anybody has with any of my edits. Lianachan 18:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Please do not mix the three countries and one province of the UK. This administrative system (defunct in one of the countries) is distinct in each country and the linguistic stories, besides predating the UK mostly by over a millennium, don't make sense grouped. It also may confuse people into thinking that a county system is directly under the UK, when it is not and never has been. It's also harder to edit btw, another important point. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 16:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
What does that mean? — Tamfang ( talk) 21:35, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Or perhaps I should put it more bluntly: Ancienterritory is not a word. It isn't two words either, due to a 't' deficiency. This sequence of letters appears in this article. It also appears in precisely the same "list of counties of the UK" context in these apparently cloned odd ball nether regions of the Internet:
My opinion that it isn't a word seems to be well supported by the complete absence of any other appearances on the Internet. It has to go (perhaps like the ancient territories it tries to describe). I didn't just immediately edit or delete it, because it looks like this Talk page needs something on which we all agree. ChrisJBenson ( talk) 10:12, 17 June 2013 (UTC)