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I have added a quality assessment rating and importance rating to this article. Feel free to change them as the article improves! Also, feel free to add more issues to the list below, and strike them out (strike) when they're completed. —
OranL (
talk)
21:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
I propose merging Lwaxana Troi into this article. Although the character was intricate in a few storylines in the show, she only appeared in a handful of episodes, and the article is little more than a stub. Better suited for merging here. Ejfetters ( talk) 13:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
In this diff, relevant character information is being removed from the article. A justification was given on my talk page here, to the effect that this information is a "spoiler" and so shouldn't be removed. I disagree and beleive it should be retained as obviously relevant. Alastairward ( talk) 09:57, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I come from WP:3O. My opinion is truly simple: if you have sources for the information, it must stay, regardless of it being a spoiler or not. WP:SPOILER is extremly precise on this: It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot. -- Cyclopia - talk 10:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I have read WP:SPOILER and I don't believe it applies. It says
A spoiler is a piece of information in an article about a narrative work (such as a book, feature film, television show or video game) that reveals plot events or twists, and thus may 'spoil' the experience for any reader who learns details of the plot in this way rather than in the work itself.
First the Lore article is not about "a book, feature film, television show or video game" but rather a character in a franchise which includes books, television shows and films. Second the spoiler is not about the subject the article itself covers but about " Descent". Anyone who wants to know what happens at the end of "Descent" can follow the link which appears in the "Lore" article. In contrast, if we accept that any Wikipedia article can contain spoilers for any other article (or perhaps even on topics which are not covered by an article) then it makes Wikipedia unusable for anyone wishing to avoid spoilers.
If plot details about the episodes in which Lore appears must be included in the Lore article then there should be a section "Plot details" and the details should go there. This is consistent with what WP:SPOILER states:
Therefore, Wikipedia no longer carries spoiler warnings, except for the content disclaimer and section headings (such as "Plot" or "Ending") which imply the presence of spoilers.
It is also consistent with current practice because in every Wikipedia article I've read on a work of fiction, the spoilers exist in a section whose title includes the word "Plot", they do not exist in the introduction or "Overview" section.
Personally I don't see the point of including plot details in the Lore article because anyone interested in the details can go to the articles on the relevant episodes and read the details there but if others feel details must be included then it should be under a separate section. I can't do the necessary modifications myself because I would have to read the whole Lore article and I want to avoid any other spoilers which may be present. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.196.8 ( talk) 17:36, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
- First: WP:SPOILER says "such as a book...", which means it is just a list of examples, not a strict list to be taken literally. Characters in a franchise are definitely pieces of a narrative/fiction work.
- Second, as far as I know there is no policy or guideline at all that tell us explicitly not to include spoilering information in sections which are not the "Plot" ones, for example (if I am wrong, please correct me).
- To put it simply: If you don't want to know, don't read.
But allow people who want to know, to read. Easy.
This is a non-issue, spoilers long ago ceased to be a concern of Wikipedia.
It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot. Such concerns must not interfere with neutral point of view, encyclopedic tone, completeness, or any other element of article quality
Lursa and B'Etor may have made their debut on TNG, but their one visit to the station Deep Space Nine would make them worthy of the "multiple series" section. The sisters of middle born Duras should move accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.159.90 ( talk) 03:47, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
I may be missing something here, but shouldn't John de Lancie's Q be included here? Assuming that he (it?) should, I am going to begin work on a new section of this list for information about Q. Helmut von Moltke ( talk) 07:14, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Fru1tbat:I think I see what you are arguing - this article is intended to document recurring characters who do not have significant impacts on the overarching plot of the series. Given this, I would propose the following: 1. Possible renaming of the article to "List of minor characters in "Star Trek: The Next Generation"", or something along those lines that establishes the nature of the characters to be found here. 2. Assuming we keep the current title, including (as you suggested) links to the individual pages of the major characters (bridge crew, Q, Gowron, etc.) to allow someone who searches for one of those characters to reach a link to their page. I would appreciate any reply. Helmut von Moltke ( talk) 17:08, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
I added some sources here, but I'm plagued by the thought that 1- no one will use the source, 2- it will be deleted because of a policy I don't understand. Any thoughts on my sources for the statements about the Guinan character? Geographyinitiative ( talk) 06:31, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
The article references "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I", quoting Guinan stating that her people were scattered throughout the universe. Guinan had already stated this in the earlier episode "Q Who": "My people encountered them a century ago. They destroyed our cities. They scattered my people throughout the galaxy". 94.175.77.151 ( talk) 20:58, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 16 April 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have added a quality assessment rating and importance rating to this article. Feel free to change them as the article improves! Also, feel free to add more issues to the list below, and strike them out (strike) when they're completed. —
OranL (
talk)
21:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
I propose merging Lwaxana Troi into this article. Although the character was intricate in a few storylines in the show, she only appeared in a handful of episodes, and the article is little more than a stub. Better suited for merging here. Ejfetters ( talk) 13:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
In this diff, relevant character information is being removed from the article. A justification was given on my talk page here, to the effect that this information is a "spoiler" and so shouldn't be removed. I disagree and beleive it should be retained as obviously relevant. Alastairward ( talk) 09:57, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I come from WP:3O. My opinion is truly simple: if you have sources for the information, it must stay, regardless of it being a spoiler or not. WP:SPOILER is extremly precise on this: It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot. -- Cyclopia - talk 10:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I have read WP:SPOILER and I don't believe it applies. It says
A spoiler is a piece of information in an article about a narrative work (such as a book, feature film, television show or video game) that reveals plot events or twists, and thus may 'spoil' the experience for any reader who learns details of the plot in this way rather than in the work itself.
First the Lore article is not about "a book, feature film, television show or video game" but rather a character in a franchise which includes books, television shows and films. Second the spoiler is not about the subject the article itself covers but about " Descent". Anyone who wants to know what happens at the end of "Descent" can follow the link which appears in the "Lore" article. In contrast, if we accept that any Wikipedia article can contain spoilers for any other article (or perhaps even on topics which are not covered by an article) then it makes Wikipedia unusable for anyone wishing to avoid spoilers.
If plot details about the episodes in which Lore appears must be included in the Lore article then there should be a section "Plot details" and the details should go there. This is consistent with what WP:SPOILER states:
Therefore, Wikipedia no longer carries spoiler warnings, except for the content disclaimer and section headings (such as "Plot" or "Ending") which imply the presence of spoilers.
It is also consistent with current practice because in every Wikipedia article I've read on a work of fiction, the spoilers exist in a section whose title includes the word "Plot", they do not exist in the introduction or "Overview" section.
Personally I don't see the point of including plot details in the Lore article because anyone interested in the details can go to the articles on the relevant episodes and read the details there but if others feel details must be included then it should be under a separate section. I can't do the necessary modifications myself because I would have to read the whole Lore article and I want to avoid any other spoilers which may be present. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.196.8 ( talk) 17:36, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
- First: WP:SPOILER says "such as a book...", which means it is just a list of examples, not a strict list to be taken literally. Characters in a franchise are definitely pieces of a narrative/fiction work.
- Second, as far as I know there is no policy or guideline at all that tell us explicitly not to include spoilering information in sections which are not the "Plot" ones, for example (if I am wrong, please correct me).
- To put it simply: If you don't want to know, don't read.
But allow people who want to know, to read. Easy.
This is a non-issue, spoilers long ago ceased to be a concern of Wikipedia.
It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot. Such concerns must not interfere with neutral point of view, encyclopedic tone, completeness, or any other element of article quality
Lursa and B'Etor may have made their debut on TNG, but their one visit to the station Deep Space Nine would make them worthy of the "multiple series" section. The sisters of middle born Duras should move accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.159.90 ( talk) 03:47, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
I may be missing something here, but shouldn't John de Lancie's Q be included here? Assuming that he (it?) should, I am going to begin work on a new section of this list for information about Q. Helmut von Moltke ( talk) 07:14, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
@ Fru1tbat:I think I see what you are arguing - this article is intended to document recurring characters who do not have significant impacts on the overarching plot of the series. Given this, I would propose the following: 1. Possible renaming of the article to "List of minor characters in "Star Trek: The Next Generation"", or something along those lines that establishes the nature of the characters to be found here. 2. Assuming we keep the current title, including (as you suggested) links to the individual pages of the major characters (bridge crew, Q, Gowron, etc.) to allow someone who searches for one of those characters to reach a link to their page. I would appreciate any reply. Helmut von Moltke ( talk) 17:08, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
I added some sources here, but I'm plagued by the thought that 1- no one will use the source, 2- it will be deleted because of a policy I don't understand. Any thoughts on my sources for the statements about the Guinan character? Geographyinitiative ( talk) 06:31, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
The article references "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I", quoting Guinan stating that her people were scattered throughout the universe. Guinan had already stated this in the earlier episode "Q Who": "My people encountered them a century ago. They destroyed our cities. They scattered my people throughout the galaxy". 94.175.77.151 ( talk) 20:58, 12 April 2019 (UTC)