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Archive 1 |
Does this really require a separate article? Why not include it in Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War? Bommbass ( talk) 09:33, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
Should General Magomed Tushayev be included here? He was killed while leading a regiment of "Chechen National Guard" on the Russian side in Ukraine on March 26th -- KrisFricke [1] — Preceding undated comment added 11:33, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
Take a look here Discussion. Mr.User200 ( talk) 07:39, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
On his own Telegram channel, however, Kadyrov disputed that Tushayev had been killed. He uploaded a video purporting to show Tushayev with Anzor Bisaev, another Chechen commander who was in Ukraine. “They are more alive than the living,” he wrote.Emphasis added. Kadyrov is not a reliable narrator. As it stands, and more info can certainly come out, we have the Jerusalem Post, The Times of Israel, The Independent reporting this; the first adopting the claim and the latter saying it had been confirmed by Interfax-Ukraine. Solipsism 101 ( talk) 22:34, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Shouldn't Magomed Tushayev be also added to this list? He was Chechen but still he was fighting on the Russian side. 2A02:A312:C539:7F80:9156:2D63:3D9D:79DA ( talk) 13:16, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
The Telegraph says Paliy "is the sixth top military figure to die during the invasion of Ukraine"; he is the deputy commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Other sources say his rank is "First rank captain" [2], which would be Captain 1st rank and equivalent to a colonel. As such, this person would appear to not be equivalent to a general officer. We have a few colonels killed as it stands. [3] Solipsism 101 ( talk) 17:15, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
AugusteBlanqui ( talk) 15:07, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
There are, sorry, my mistake, were, some/about forty 2-3 star generals in the start..., no need to add lower ranks, imho ☆☆☆—Pietadè Talk 19:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
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At the moment, we have Yakov Rezantsev in the disputed column. We created this column in cases where the Russian side were actively disputing the death. Is that happening with Rezantsev? We don't include any info to say it is happening. Solipsism 101 ( talk) 14:29, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
“Unconfirmed” might be a better heading. As far as I know, Russians have not disputed Rezantsev’s demise at this time. — Michael Z. 15:51, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
All but 1 of them are unconfirmed, so it's not a very useful way to describe it. The Russians have only properly disputed Andrey Mordvichev's and Magomed Tushayev's alleged deaths, with the rest going unacknowledged, likely meaning they've died. Most of us on this page seem to have agreed to keep all the names in one list, at least for now. But there are still notes commenting on the disputed deaths, so a different category or list isn't necessary. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 00:11, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry, I meant to put "possibly" not "likely", sorry about that. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 09:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
It's been several weeks since he has been allegedly killed. Any news on whether he's dead or alive in the meantime? Bommbass ( talk) 09:20, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
There's a new issue today since 'Mordvichev' popped up alive today, and half the sites who report on him used a pic of General Alexey Avdveev. link. Since this is WP Living Person we should get this straightened out asap --BLKFTR ( tlk2meh) 21:54, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
If he is put back, I'd say we put him in the 'disputed' section, along with Magomed Tushayev, as the Chechens have disputed his death too. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 21:39, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Yeah I get that, perhaps it's what's best In order to limit confusion. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 00:03, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Beyond personal assessments of the claim, is there an RS which says his death is doubted because of social media posts? I would add that Russian manipulation of video footage on social media has been prominent in this campaign ( Ramzan Kadyrov and Sergei Shoigu come to mind), so video footage should not be accepted without further investigation. Solipsism 101 ( talk) 06:32, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
At least one Russian general who was reported dead by Ukraine turned out to be alive. Ukraine’s SBU security service said Lieutenant General Andrey Mordvichev was killed by a strike on an airbase near Kherson, southern Ukraine. He was later photographed with Ramzan Kadyrov, the Chechen leader. [9] Solipsism 101 ( talk) 06:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
Note that Vladimir Frolov, recently buried in St. Petersburg, with no prior reporting of his death, was the deputy commander of the 8th Guards Army — Mordvichev's Number 2. So it is possible that there was a general killed at Chernobaevka in mid-March, as claimed by Ukraine, but it was Frolov, not Mordvichev. Mw843 ( talk) 00:49, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
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Could someone swap the wikidata link next to Magomed Tushayev to a link to his article on the simple english project Simple:Magomed Tushayev? I think it's a much more readable alternate project page as it's actually an article rather than a database, and per the RFC on linking to Wikidata links to wikidata items should not be included in article text anyway. 192.76.8.70 ( talk) 21:13, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
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Could you please re-add Mordvichev to the list, as per the talk page above 72.229.242.36 ( talk) 12:47, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Yeah he should be at least mentioned in the article itself though maybe not in the list. Not even mentioning him - even if we state that there was a video etc. - is just weird. Some RS continue to list him as "killed according to Ukrainian authorities" [13]. Volunteer Marek 20:54, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Could this article be expanded to include other notable ranks in ascending order?
Other individuals included in this list for example;
/info/en/?search=Order_of_battle_for_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Colonel Yuri, Medvedev and Major General, Vitaly Gerasimov etc... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.2.78 ( talk) 10:42, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
The loss of generals due to serious wounds or being dismissed from their posts is also significant and notable. Here’s an example. Perhaps this article can be expanded in breadth (to other causes), as well as in depth (to other ranks). Maybe rename List of Russian generals lost during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
— Michael Z. 15:45, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Anton Kuprin, commander of the Russian cruiser Moskva, declared MIA. Shou!d this high ranking officier be included ?
Yug (talk) 🐲 12:08, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
The supposed "survivors' parade" was broadcast on state TV, although the news agency did not clarify exactly when it had been filmed.Solipsism 101 ( talk) 06:41, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Deputy Commander of Russian 8th army was buried in Saint Petersburg on April 16th as reported at https://www.fontanka.ru/2022/04/16/71262053/
The local governor told he was killed in action in Ukraine. It will make him an additional major-general to die. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.178.86.66 ( talk) 13:22, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Would it be possible/feasible to make it easier for readers to get the status of items on the table at a glance? Like adding a new column to the table or use some colour-coding (like the table here does) 178.197.216.167 ( talk) 18:51, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
There is a new video from Popasna(Donbas frontline), where he is clearly alive. I think his entry can be deleted. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.227.205 ( talk) 20:47, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
References
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60807538
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-russian-officer-elite-decimated-9-who-were-killed-in-combat-2022-3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.187.183.38 ( talk) 06:09, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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Magomed Tushayev is alive. The claim of his death was made at the end of February/beginning of March. I'm finding articles from March 1. This is the video from March 3 disputing those claims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPjZbyocoFI
The death of Magomed Tushayev came along with the barrage of disinformation campaigns, such as "The Ghost of Kyiv" and "The soldiers on snake island". Magomed was not killed and was confirmed to be alive. There is no reason to believe that he has been killed since then. Those initial claims are false.
Also, the sources cited to make the claim that Magomed was killed has been taken down. The source now directs to a broken page. The information is no longer there. Updating this page would be good. D2857gu ( talk) 12:25, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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The deaths of the following generals are unconfirmed: /info/en/?search=Vitaly_Gerasimov /info/en/?search=Andrei_Kolesnikov_(general) /info/en/?search=Yakov_Rezantsev
Should be stated on the page. Similar to how Magomed's death is stated as Disputed. Some generals are confirmed dead by both Russian and Ukrainian sources, so it's good to know who's actually dead and who's not confirmed to be. D2857gu ( talk) 12:41, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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The list of killed russian generals is missing an eight (8.) one. Lt-Gen Andrey Mordvichev, killed in the Kherson region on March 19 Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714981/Russia-recovers-body-dead-general-MONTH-killed-Mariupol-steel-factory.html ThyrussGhost ( talk) 21:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Magomed Tushayev used to have a page on Wikipedia, but it was deleted for not being notable. I remember the page and it was quite short, and maybe with 6 sources. However, ever since, other Wikipedias have written better articles about him. The best one is from the Chinese Wikipedia [16]. I wonder if we could translate this page and restore an article for him? Super Ψ Dro 21:19, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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Vladimir Frolov should be added. Link↓ Forbes has it too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-frolov-russian-general-killed-war-b2059665.html Pixiegrl ( talk) 04:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
Vladimir Frolov should be added no?
/info/en/?search=Vladimir_Frolov_(general) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-frolov-russian-general-killed-war-b2059665.html Pixiegrl ( talk) 04:57, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
This doesn't really make sense to me, why would the views of people in a particular country matter for the contents of the list? If this is meant to be a neutrality issue, Template:NPOV should be used instead, or possibly Template:Disputed. However, it would be preferable to tag individual items and explain the claims of both sides for disputed items, instead of wholesale tagging the entire list as such without further information Phiarc ( talk) 10:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
You all are overlooking the fact that the article is wrong and Russian major-general corresponds to Western major generals. Look at the Russian wiki article, for example: ru:Генерал-майор. The takeaway there is that Russian major-generals are commanding divisions just like their Western counterparts are. Russians simply lack brigadiers (brigades are commanded by senior colonels). Any "comparisons" with lower ranks should be removed. This kind of false information surfaces from time to time on Wikipedia, and I wouldn't be surprised if the journalist got his misconceptions from here. 12:32, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
I noticed 2 generals were removed because they were disputed, but the Chechen one remains on the article with a disputed tag. How are we differentiating what gets removed and what gets to stay? -BLKFTR ( tlk2meh)
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Hello,
Just thought I'd share the link. I don't have fancy editing privileges, and this probably needs to be confirmed a bit better then this one source. Looks like two more generals dead, and another wounded. Good luck following up on this, and good day!
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3465606-ukraine-army-destroys-enemy-command-operations-center-eliminates-two-russian-generals.html GeogSage ( talk) 18:27, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
I propose an expansion of the article to the general (no pun intended) situation of Russian generals during the conflict. There are reports of at least several seriously wounded generals - see Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine plus since the recent Kherson command post attack another unnamed one - which reinforces the exceptional situation Russian generals are finding themselves in. Next to this, Putin dismissed and even had arrested multiple generals since the beginning of the conflict - this is quite exceptional as well. So perhaps rename and rescope the article to "Russian generals during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine"? UlyssorZebra ( talk) 10:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
How about List of Russian officer casualties during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine? We can define the list criteria to include killed general officers, but also some other notable casualties, including wounded and lower ranks. — Michael Z. 13:47, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
To reply to the mentioned proposals of casualties - I am not feeling enthusiastic about this because the "dismissed and/or arrested generals" are not casualties (in the normal sense of the word), making the title a bit of a misnomer. I also don't like the idea of including all notable casualties because this dilutes what I - and in my view many sources - see as remarkable, i.e. the truly exceptional senior command situation that characterizes the Russian military in this war. This situation deserves expansion in my view. UlyssorZebra ( talk) 19:25, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
не вторжения, а начала освобождения Украины от нацизма, который насаждали искусственно все те страны, которые сейчас снабжают(воюют) на стороне террористов-нацистов Украины. 94.231.133.170 ( talk) 06:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.231.133.170 ( talk) 06:28, 27 April 2022 (UTC) 94.231.133.170 ( talk) 06:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
Multiple Ukrainian sources on twitter reporting the death of Major General Simonov near Izyum. If some editors who can read Ukranian and/or Russian sources could keep an eye for more details that would be great. AugusteBlanqui ( talk) 19:32, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
A request to hyperlink his name to Andrey Simonov (general). UlyssorZebra ( talk) 08:49, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Various sources on Twitter talk about a big attack on a Russian command post in Izyum, leaving Chief of Staff Gerasimov wounded and dozens of high ranking officers (like Major General Simonov) killed. Could be added as general information below the table since injuring such a high ranking officer seems remarkable — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C1:AF1A:C800:3562:FEDA:B44D:1DAA ( talk) 15:39, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Why are Ukrainian claims from Twitter (non-RS) being taken as face value? Shouldn't we wait for further confirmation and not parrot one side? For example, is there any proof that General Simonov died, apart from Ukrainian social media allegations? 2601:85:C101:C9D0:45DB:90D1:58F4:90AF ( talk) 19:29, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Can we change Siminov to Chief of the Electronic Warfare Troops of the 2nd Army rather than “a senior leader etc” 2A04:4A43:48BF:E34E:80DD:2FE8:FDF1:E922 ( talk) 17:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
See https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magomed_Tushayev. 89.8.189.184 ( talk) 15:39, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Washington Post cites the British Ministry of Defence today:
“Difficulties in command and control, as well as faltering Russian performance on the front line, have drawn senior Russian commanders onto the battlefield, likely to take personal leadership of operations."
Their deployment has put them at “significant risk, leading to disproportionately high losses of Russian officers in this conflict"
This summarizes the situation well, and adds a new source. However I can't find a link to the Ministry's statement except their tweet. Is there a better way to cite this?
Thanks. Cloudjpk ( talk) 16:36, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Can anyone provide an alternative source for the New York Times article? Not a rewrite, something like the Associated Press which will allow readers to see the original article without subscribing to the New York Times. My search only came up with the Japan Times which requires creation of an account, presumably with limits. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 22:22, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
You're quite right, Michael Z. ( talk · contribs), original sources should always be noted even if they are in a language other than English. I didn't say the original should be deleted, but I should've used the word "additional". Not everyone has access to a public library or is able to visit a library which carries copies of a particular newspaper. Some readers have very limited Internet access. Not everyone is able to create accounts, even free ones (or jump through hoops of any sort), every time they encounter a barrier. Wikipedia is for everyone; the fewer barriers, the better. So a source of the text without a payroll would be appreciated. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 21:37, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
This article by ISW lists Russian generals. You can ctrl+f for KIA.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SentientObject ( talk • contribs)
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Can we change Siminov's section in the graph about generals who have been killed to Chief of the Electronic Warfare Troops of the 2nd Army rather than “a senior leader etc” 78.147.85.85 ( talk) 07:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC) 78.147.85.85 ( talk) 07:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Some people point out that Putin may have put generals into harm's way as a method of assassination because those generals became opposition to Putin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.235.154.149 ( talk) 18:55, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
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Andrey Nikolayevich Paly should be added to this list: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-general-officer-guide-may-11 — Preceding unsigned comment added by SentientObject ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1533472585949888512 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:BD40:65C4:24DB:B545:6C37:129D ( talk) 17:05, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
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Hi, please add reference to one more Roman Vladimirovich Kutuzov. Source. The status shuld be "Claimed" (he was confirmed by the Russian side, but not yet officially). Thanks! With regards, Oleg. Y. ( talk). 17:51, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1533520588785991681 Regards to all, Buckshot06 (talk) 22:34, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Seems a little weird to have a page listing "Russian generals killed . . ." and then the status of two of them is "Alive." That's how the page reads right now. Knorlin ( talk) 22:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Add Roman Borisovich Berdnikov to the list Source: https://www.9news.com.au/world/russia-ukraine-update-two-russian-generals-killed-report-say/abb1998d-4283-4202-a36d-342929ba2de6 https://tsargrad.tv/news/boj-za-donbass-kak-pogib-general-major-roman-kutuzov_560811 -- Titsor8976 ( talk) 05:53, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The claims of Berdnikov's death as well originate with anonymous sources cited by the Volya telegram channel at 11:16 on 5 June. In the post, Volya mentioned earlier claims by Russian channel Astra Press and DNR public channels that a general named Roman had been killed, not naming his last name, and Volya stated that thanks to anonymous sources they knew his full name, naming him as Roman Berdnikov. Around 11:22, Sladkov made his first [17] post disclosing Roman Kutuzov's death. In this tweet, Volya admitted that "their sources could be wrong," "but let's wait two or three days." The claims of Berdnikov's death have so far only been picked up by Western tabloids like Daily Mail. Kges1901 ( talk) 12:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Well, there is possibility that Russian propagandas try to pretend the dead generals are alive. And indeed there are no independent sources to prove that whether those generals are alive, and thus their status should remain "disputed" as before. 182.239.90.104 ( talk) 07:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
There is no "Republic of Luhansk", so no one can have been killed in this fictional country. All Russian invaders were killed on Ukrainian soil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:E2:3701:9D72:A83A:4841:5DF2:6494 ( talk) 09:02, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Maj Gen Roman Kutuzov has been confirmed killed in donbas by russian media (date of death unsure). He is said to have been killed leading an assault on a ukrainian settlement.
Additional rumours of Lt Gen Roman Berdnikov being killed have circulated on social media, yet this remains unverified. Source: BBC News, United Kingdom https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61702862 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.159.124.162 ( talk) 09:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Get it back to “disputed”. Putin claimed those are erroneous reports, but not Ukraine. The situation of those three Russians are disputed, not verified to be alive. 182.239.120.192 ( talk) 08:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
In no way does this excuse Russian actions in Ukraine or the reality, that yes, they do systematically falsify information and obviously do not publish accurate total casualty figures. But the Russians already manipulate the deaths of individual generals and soldiers to fit their own narratives of the war, for example Roman Kutuzov's death was confirmed so quickly, and Russian media constructed a narrative of his heroic death. Yes there are obvious military reasons why deaths of senior officers might not be disclosed quickly, same would apply for the Ukrainians, but it is unrealistic to assume that the Russians would be going to great lengths to prove that general who is actually dead is still alive when they can still use deaths to further pro-war narratives. Kges1901 ( talk) 20:59, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
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Looking to make a small edit. Under Roman Kutuzov's section, it is said "Kutuzov was reportedly killed near the village of Mykolaivka, Popasna Raion, Luhansk Oblast the day after being promoted.[26][25][27]". However, the source that is using, which I believe is source 27 ( https://hindustannewshub.com/russia-ukraine-news/putin-promoted-9-generals-participants-in-the-war-in-ukraine-the-moscow-times/), does not actually say this.
It says, "Among those promoted are Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov, commander of the 6th Air Force Army Oleg Makovetsky, commander of the 11th Army Corps Andrey Ruzinsky, and Major General Roman Kutuzov, who died the day before in the LPR."
I.E. he was promoted the day after his death 2001:569:733C:9700:75AA:ED0E:6335:D9F0 ( talk) 09:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
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The column for rank was intended to be sortable, with data-sort-value=1
for Major General and data-sort-value=2
for Lieutenant General (i.e. number of stars in rank). Some point rows were later added by copy-and-paste, resulting in incorrect custom sortkeys. 3 rows need to be fixed: 16, 30 Apr and 22 May entries. Thanks.
2406:3003:2077:1E60:C998:20C6:8CCF:5730 (
talk)
06:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
What is the relevance of the picture of Lapin? He's not among the generals killed. Cloudjpk ( talk) 15:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Does this really require a separate article? Why not include it in Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War? Bommbass ( talk) 09:33, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
Should General Magomed Tushayev be included here? He was killed while leading a regiment of "Chechen National Guard" on the Russian side in Ukraine on March 26th -- KrisFricke [1] — Preceding undated comment added 11:33, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
Take a look here Discussion. Mr.User200 ( talk) 07:39, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
On his own Telegram channel, however, Kadyrov disputed that Tushayev had been killed. He uploaded a video purporting to show Tushayev with Anzor Bisaev, another Chechen commander who was in Ukraine. “They are more alive than the living,” he wrote.Emphasis added. Kadyrov is not a reliable narrator. As it stands, and more info can certainly come out, we have the Jerusalem Post, The Times of Israel, The Independent reporting this; the first adopting the claim and the latter saying it had been confirmed by Interfax-Ukraine. Solipsism 101 ( talk) 22:34, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Shouldn't Magomed Tushayev be also added to this list? He was Chechen but still he was fighting on the Russian side. 2A02:A312:C539:7F80:9156:2D63:3D9D:79DA ( talk) 13:16, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
The Telegraph says Paliy "is the sixth top military figure to die during the invasion of Ukraine"; he is the deputy commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Other sources say his rank is "First rank captain" [2], which would be Captain 1st rank and equivalent to a colonel. As such, this person would appear to not be equivalent to a general officer. We have a few colonels killed as it stands. [3] Solipsism 101 ( talk) 17:15, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
AugusteBlanqui ( talk) 15:07, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
There are, sorry, my mistake, were, some/about forty 2-3 star generals in the start..., no need to add lower ranks, imho ☆☆☆—Pietadè Talk 19:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
At the moment, we have Yakov Rezantsev in the disputed column. We created this column in cases where the Russian side were actively disputing the death. Is that happening with Rezantsev? We don't include any info to say it is happening. Solipsism 101 ( talk) 14:29, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
“Unconfirmed” might be a better heading. As far as I know, Russians have not disputed Rezantsev’s demise at this time. — Michael Z. 15:51, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
All but 1 of them are unconfirmed, so it's not a very useful way to describe it. The Russians have only properly disputed Andrey Mordvichev's and Magomed Tushayev's alleged deaths, with the rest going unacknowledged, likely meaning they've died. Most of us on this page seem to have agreed to keep all the names in one list, at least for now. But there are still notes commenting on the disputed deaths, so a different category or list isn't necessary. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 00:11, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry, I meant to put "possibly" not "likely", sorry about that. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 09:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
It's been several weeks since he has been allegedly killed. Any news on whether he's dead or alive in the meantime? Bommbass ( talk) 09:20, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
There's a new issue today since 'Mordvichev' popped up alive today, and half the sites who report on him used a pic of General Alexey Avdveev. link. Since this is WP Living Person we should get this straightened out asap --BLKFTR ( tlk2meh) 21:54, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
If he is put back, I'd say we put him in the 'disputed' section, along with Magomed Tushayev, as the Chechens have disputed his death too. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 21:39, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Yeah I get that, perhaps it's what's best In order to limit confusion. PixelatedGalaxy ( talk) 00:03, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Beyond personal assessments of the claim, is there an RS which says his death is doubted because of social media posts? I would add that Russian manipulation of video footage on social media has been prominent in this campaign ( Ramzan Kadyrov and Sergei Shoigu come to mind), so video footage should not be accepted without further investigation. Solipsism 101 ( talk) 06:32, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
At least one Russian general who was reported dead by Ukraine turned out to be alive. Ukraine’s SBU security service said Lieutenant General Andrey Mordvichev was killed by a strike on an airbase near Kherson, southern Ukraine. He was later photographed with Ramzan Kadyrov, the Chechen leader. [9] Solipsism 101 ( talk) 06:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
Note that Vladimir Frolov, recently buried in St. Petersburg, with no prior reporting of his death, was the deputy commander of the 8th Guards Army — Mordvichev's Number 2. So it is possible that there was a general killed at Chernobaevka in mid-March, as claimed by Ukraine, but it was Frolov, not Mordvichev. Mw843 ( talk) 00:49, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
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Could someone swap the wikidata link next to Magomed Tushayev to a link to his article on the simple english project Simple:Magomed Tushayev? I think it's a much more readable alternate project page as it's actually an article rather than a database, and per the RFC on linking to Wikidata links to wikidata items should not be included in article text anyway. 192.76.8.70 ( talk) 21:13, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
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Could you please re-add Mordvichev to the list, as per the talk page above 72.229.242.36 ( talk) 12:47, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Yeah he should be at least mentioned in the article itself though maybe not in the list. Not even mentioning him - even if we state that there was a video etc. - is just weird. Some RS continue to list him as "killed according to Ukrainian authorities" [13]. Volunteer Marek 20:54, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Could this article be expanded to include other notable ranks in ascending order?
Other individuals included in this list for example;
/info/en/?search=Order_of_battle_for_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Colonel Yuri, Medvedev and Major General, Vitaly Gerasimov etc... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.2.78 ( talk) 10:42, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
The loss of generals due to serious wounds or being dismissed from their posts is also significant and notable. Here’s an example. Perhaps this article can be expanded in breadth (to other causes), as well as in depth (to other ranks). Maybe rename List of Russian generals lost during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
— Michael Z. 15:45, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Anton Kuprin, commander of the Russian cruiser Moskva, declared MIA. Shou!d this high ranking officier be included ?
Yug (talk) 🐲 12:08, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
The supposed "survivors' parade" was broadcast on state TV, although the news agency did not clarify exactly when it had been filmed.Solipsism 101 ( talk) 06:41, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Deputy Commander of Russian 8th army was buried in Saint Petersburg on April 16th as reported at https://www.fontanka.ru/2022/04/16/71262053/
The local governor told he was killed in action in Ukraine. It will make him an additional major-general to die. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.178.86.66 ( talk) 13:22, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Would it be possible/feasible to make it easier for readers to get the status of items on the table at a glance? Like adding a new column to the table or use some colour-coding (like the table here does) 178.197.216.167 ( talk) 18:51, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
There is a new video from Popasna(Donbas frontline), where he is clearly alive. I think his entry can be deleted. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.227.205 ( talk) 20:47, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
References
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60807538
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-russian-officer-elite-decimated-9-who-were-killed-in-combat-2022-3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.187.183.38 ( talk) 06:09, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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Magomed Tushayev is alive. The claim of his death was made at the end of February/beginning of March. I'm finding articles from March 1. This is the video from March 3 disputing those claims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPjZbyocoFI
The death of Magomed Tushayev came along with the barrage of disinformation campaigns, such as "The Ghost of Kyiv" and "The soldiers on snake island". Magomed was not killed and was confirmed to be alive. There is no reason to believe that he has been killed since then. Those initial claims are false.
Also, the sources cited to make the claim that Magomed was killed has been taken down. The source now directs to a broken page. The information is no longer there. Updating this page would be good. D2857gu ( talk) 12:25, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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The deaths of the following generals are unconfirmed: /info/en/?search=Vitaly_Gerasimov /info/en/?search=Andrei_Kolesnikov_(general) /info/en/?search=Yakov_Rezantsev
Should be stated on the page. Similar to how Magomed's death is stated as Disputed. Some generals are confirmed dead by both Russian and Ukrainian sources, so it's good to know who's actually dead and who's not confirmed to be. D2857gu ( talk) 12:41, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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The list of killed russian generals is missing an eight (8.) one. Lt-Gen Andrey Mordvichev, killed in the Kherson region on March 19 Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714981/Russia-recovers-body-dead-general-MONTH-killed-Mariupol-steel-factory.html ThyrussGhost ( talk) 21:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Magomed Tushayev used to have a page on Wikipedia, but it was deleted for not being notable. I remember the page and it was quite short, and maybe with 6 sources. However, ever since, other Wikipedias have written better articles about him. The best one is from the Chinese Wikipedia [16]. I wonder if we could translate this page and restore an article for him? Super Ψ Dro 21:19, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
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Vladimir Frolov should be added. Link↓ Forbes has it too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-frolov-russian-general-killed-war-b2059665.html Pixiegrl ( talk) 04:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
Vladimir Frolov should be added no?
/info/en/?search=Vladimir_Frolov_(general) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-frolov-russian-general-killed-war-b2059665.html Pixiegrl ( talk) 04:57, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
This doesn't really make sense to me, why would the views of people in a particular country matter for the contents of the list? If this is meant to be a neutrality issue, Template:NPOV should be used instead, or possibly Template:Disputed. However, it would be preferable to tag individual items and explain the claims of both sides for disputed items, instead of wholesale tagging the entire list as such without further information Phiarc ( talk) 10:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
You all are overlooking the fact that the article is wrong and Russian major-general corresponds to Western major generals. Look at the Russian wiki article, for example: ru:Генерал-майор. The takeaway there is that Russian major-generals are commanding divisions just like their Western counterparts are. Russians simply lack brigadiers (brigades are commanded by senior colonels). Any "comparisons" with lower ranks should be removed. This kind of false information surfaces from time to time on Wikipedia, and I wouldn't be surprised if the journalist got his misconceptions from here. 12:32, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
I noticed 2 generals were removed because they were disputed, but the Chechen one remains on the article with a disputed tag. How are we differentiating what gets removed and what gets to stay? -BLKFTR ( tlk2meh)
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Hello,
Just thought I'd share the link. I don't have fancy editing privileges, and this probably needs to be confirmed a bit better then this one source. Looks like two more generals dead, and another wounded. Good luck following up on this, and good day!
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3465606-ukraine-army-destroys-enemy-command-operations-center-eliminates-two-russian-generals.html GeogSage ( talk) 18:27, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
I propose an expansion of the article to the general (no pun intended) situation of Russian generals during the conflict. There are reports of at least several seriously wounded generals - see Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine plus since the recent Kherson command post attack another unnamed one - which reinforces the exceptional situation Russian generals are finding themselves in. Next to this, Putin dismissed and even had arrested multiple generals since the beginning of the conflict - this is quite exceptional as well. So perhaps rename and rescope the article to "Russian generals during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine"? UlyssorZebra ( talk) 10:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
How about List of Russian officer casualties during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine? We can define the list criteria to include killed general officers, but also some other notable casualties, including wounded and lower ranks. — Michael Z. 13:47, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
To reply to the mentioned proposals of casualties - I am not feeling enthusiastic about this because the "dismissed and/or arrested generals" are not casualties (in the normal sense of the word), making the title a bit of a misnomer. I also don't like the idea of including all notable casualties because this dilutes what I - and in my view many sources - see as remarkable, i.e. the truly exceptional senior command situation that characterizes the Russian military in this war. This situation deserves expansion in my view. UlyssorZebra ( talk) 19:25, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
не вторжения, а начала освобождения Украины от нацизма, который насаждали искусственно все те страны, которые сейчас снабжают(воюют) на стороне террористов-нацистов Украины. 94.231.133.170 ( talk) 06:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.231.133.170 ( talk) 06:28, 27 April 2022 (UTC) 94.231.133.170 ( talk) 06:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
Multiple Ukrainian sources on twitter reporting the death of Major General Simonov near Izyum. If some editors who can read Ukranian and/or Russian sources could keep an eye for more details that would be great. AugusteBlanqui ( talk) 19:32, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
A request to hyperlink his name to Andrey Simonov (general). UlyssorZebra ( talk) 08:49, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Various sources on Twitter talk about a big attack on a Russian command post in Izyum, leaving Chief of Staff Gerasimov wounded and dozens of high ranking officers (like Major General Simonov) killed. Could be added as general information below the table since injuring such a high ranking officer seems remarkable — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C1:AF1A:C800:3562:FEDA:B44D:1DAA ( talk) 15:39, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Why are Ukrainian claims from Twitter (non-RS) being taken as face value? Shouldn't we wait for further confirmation and not parrot one side? For example, is there any proof that General Simonov died, apart from Ukrainian social media allegations? 2601:85:C101:C9D0:45DB:90D1:58F4:90AF ( talk) 19:29, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
Can we change Siminov to Chief of the Electronic Warfare Troops of the 2nd Army rather than “a senior leader etc” 2A04:4A43:48BF:E34E:80DD:2FE8:FDF1:E922 ( talk) 17:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
See https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magomed_Tushayev. 89.8.189.184 ( talk) 15:39, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Washington Post cites the British Ministry of Defence today:
“Difficulties in command and control, as well as faltering Russian performance on the front line, have drawn senior Russian commanders onto the battlefield, likely to take personal leadership of operations."
Their deployment has put them at “significant risk, leading to disproportionately high losses of Russian officers in this conflict"
This summarizes the situation well, and adds a new source. However I can't find a link to the Ministry's statement except their tweet. Is there a better way to cite this?
Thanks. Cloudjpk ( talk) 16:36, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Can anyone provide an alternative source for the New York Times article? Not a rewrite, something like the Associated Press which will allow readers to see the original article without subscribing to the New York Times. My search only came up with the Japan Times which requires creation of an account, presumably with limits. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 22:22, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
You're quite right, Michael Z. ( talk · contribs), original sources should always be noted even if they are in a language other than English. I didn't say the original should be deleted, but I should've used the word "additional". Not everyone has access to a public library or is able to visit a library which carries copies of a particular newspaper. Some readers have very limited Internet access. Not everyone is able to create accounts, even free ones (or jump through hoops of any sort), every time they encounter a barrier. Wikipedia is for everyone; the fewer barriers, the better. So a source of the text without a payroll would be appreciated. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 21:37, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
This article by ISW lists Russian generals. You can ctrl+f for KIA.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SentientObject ( talk • contribs)
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Can we change Siminov's section in the graph about generals who have been killed to Chief of the Electronic Warfare Troops of the 2nd Army rather than “a senior leader etc” 78.147.85.85 ( talk) 07:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC) 78.147.85.85 ( talk) 07:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Some people point out that Putin may have put generals into harm's way as a method of assassination because those generals became opposition to Putin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.235.154.149 ( talk) 18:55, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
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Andrey Nikolayevich Paly should be added to this list: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-general-officer-guide-may-11 — Preceding unsigned comment added by SentientObject ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1533472585949888512 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:BD40:65C4:24DB:B545:6C37:129D ( talk) 17:05, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
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Hi, please add reference to one more Roman Vladimirovich Kutuzov. Source. The status shuld be "Claimed" (he was confirmed by the Russian side, but not yet officially). Thanks! With regards, Oleg. Y. ( talk). 17:51, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1533520588785991681 Regards to all, Buckshot06 (talk) 22:34, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Seems a little weird to have a page listing "Russian generals killed . . ." and then the status of two of them is "Alive." That's how the page reads right now. Knorlin ( talk) 22:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Add Roman Borisovich Berdnikov to the list Source: https://www.9news.com.au/world/russia-ukraine-update-two-russian-generals-killed-report-say/abb1998d-4283-4202-a36d-342929ba2de6 https://tsargrad.tv/news/boj-za-donbass-kak-pogib-general-major-roman-kutuzov_560811 -- Titsor8976 ( talk) 05:53, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The claims of Berdnikov's death as well originate with anonymous sources cited by the Volya telegram channel at 11:16 on 5 June. In the post, Volya mentioned earlier claims by Russian channel Astra Press and DNR public channels that a general named Roman had been killed, not naming his last name, and Volya stated that thanks to anonymous sources they knew his full name, naming him as Roman Berdnikov. Around 11:22, Sladkov made his first [17] post disclosing Roman Kutuzov's death. In this tweet, Volya admitted that "their sources could be wrong," "but let's wait two or three days." The claims of Berdnikov's death have so far only been picked up by Western tabloids like Daily Mail. Kges1901 ( talk) 12:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Well, there is possibility that Russian propagandas try to pretend the dead generals are alive. And indeed there are no independent sources to prove that whether those generals are alive, and thus their status should remain "disputed" as before. 182.239.90.104 ( talk) 07:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
There is no "Republic of Luhansk", so no one can have been killed in this fictional country. All Russian invaders were killed on Ukrainian soil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:E2:3701:9D72:A83A:4841:5DF2:6494 ( talk) 09:02, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Maj Gen Roman Kutuzov has been confirmed killed in donbas by russian media (date of death unsure). He is said to have been killed leading an assault on a ukrainian settlement.
Additional rumours of Lt Gen Roman Berdnikov being killed have circulated on social media, yet this remains unverified. Source: BBC News, United Kingdom https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61702862 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.159.124.162 ( talk) 09:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Get it back to “disputed”. Putin claimed those are erroneous reports, but not Ukraine. The situation of those three Russians are disputed, not verified to be alive. 182.239.120.192 ( talk) 08:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
In no way does this excuse Russian actions in Ukraine or the reality, that yes, they do systematically falsify information and obviously do not publish accurate total casualty figures. But the Russians already manipulate the deaths of individual generals and soldiers to fit their own narratives of the war, for example Roman Kutuzov's death was confirmed so quickly, and Russian media constructed a narrative of his heroic death. Yes there are obvious military reasons why deaths of senior officers might not be disclosed quickly, same would apply for the Ukrainians, but it is unrealistic to assume that the Russians would be going to great lengths to prove that general who is actually dead is still alive when they can still use deaths to further pro-war narratives. Kges1901 ( talk) 20:59, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
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Looking to make a small edit. Under Roman Kutuzov's section, it is said "Kutuzov was reportedly killed near the village of Mykolaivka, Popasna Raion, Luhansk Oblast the day after being promoted.[26][25][27]". However, the source that is using, which I believe is source 27 ( https://hindustannewshub.com/russia-ukraine-news/putin-promoted-9-generals-participants-in-the-war-in-ukraine-the-moscow-times/), does not actually say this.
It says, "Among those promoted are Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov, commander of the 6th Air Force Army Oleg Makovetsky, commander of the 11th Army Corps Andrey Ruzinsky, and Major General Roman Kutuzov, who died the day before in the LPR."
I.E. he was promoted the day after his death 2001:569:733C:9700:75AA:ED0E:6335:D9F0 ( talk) 09:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
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The column for rank was intended to be sortable, with data-sort-value=1
for Major General and data-sort-value=2
for Lieutenant General (i.e. number of stars in rank). Some point rows were later added by copy-and-paste, resulting in incorrect custom sortkeys. 3 rows need to be fixed: 16, 30 Apr and 22 May entries. Thanks.
2406:3003:2077:1E60:C998:20C6:8CCF:5730 (
talk)
06:59, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
What is the relevance of the picture of Lapin? He's not among the generals killed. Cloudjpk ( talk) 15:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)