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Moved from Talk:Marvel comics mutates
I've recently created an article called Marvel comics mutates, which should probably be renamed List of Marvel Comics Mutates. However, I wonder whether the definition of "mutate" should not be reexamined. Looking at the page, derived from the Category: Mutate page, I see quite a few characters that are cyborgs or technologically-enhanced humans. I also see many who were either transformed or merely empowered by magic or a magical object.
I wonder first whether a mutate must be genetically altered. Does merely having machinery or a magic crystal or amulet make one a mutate? Does it have to be bonded to the skin or such? Are implants like Songbird's enough? An amulet like Darkhawk's? Adamantium bonded to the bones like Deathstrike? Is Hammerhead a mutate? What about Juggernaut? Donald Pierce? Thunderstrike?
Also, should there be a category for alien or non-human mutates? We have alien mutants, like Warlock, Longshot, Cadre K, and the Brood Mutants. Would Beta Ray Bill be an alien Mutate? All the Galactus Heralds? The Inhumans?
If the character was born with the characteristics, isn't he/she a mutant, or hybrid, or member of a new breed? Atlanteans, or at least Namor's family, aren't mutates, are they? How about the members of ClanDestine (not counting the Djinn)? Eternals? Externals? was Bird-Brain a mutate, or a non-human mutate, or a new breed? What about the New Men? The Young Gods (comics)? Adam Warlock?
And what about mutants that were subsequently enhanced? Wolverine (comics)? Archangel (comics)? Can you be a mutant AND a mutate?
And don't you have to decide what a human is before you can define a mutate? For instance, what about Drax the Destroyer? Is a human spirit animating an artificial form a mutate? What about the High Evolutionary?
And how slight can the difference be? Is Captain America a mutate? If you are just peak-human rather than super-human, does it count? What if it was some sort of intensive training and esoteric techniques rather than a serum or device, ray or spell? Is the key that the change is mutagenic? Where then does magic come in? An amulet that makes you super-powered versus a spell versus a pair of bracelets versus a shard of crystal stuck in your skin versus an implanted device versus a foreign substance bonded to your bones versus boosted adrenaline?
I think this is more complicated than we thought. Rosencomet ( talk) 21:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
We don't know the source of his powers, so how do we know he's a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Granted powers by an ancient yogi? Is he a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Moondragon awakened her latent psionic powers which all humans have. In what way is she a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Origin of powers unknown; could just be from her costume. Not a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Changed by magic, but is the change mutagenic? Are they Mutates? Rosencomet ( talk) 18:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Tuck is an "artificial human" created on another planet. I don't know what this means. A clone? An android? Isn't the original Human Torch an artificial human? I don't see if Tuck can be a mutate, unless further enhanced. Rosencomet ( talk) 19:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
It is unclear if anything mutagenic has been done to Wild Child by the organizations that messed with him. Therefore, while he is a mutant, he does not seem to be a mutate. Rosencomet ( talk) 20:20, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Are they mutates? Rosencomet ( talk) 20:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
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Moved from Talk:Marvel comics mutates
I've recently created an article called Marvel comics mutates, which should probably be renamed List of Marvel Comics Mutates. However, I wonder whether the definition of "mutate" should not be reexamined. Looking at the page, derived from the Category: Mutate page, I see quite a few characters that are cyborgs or technologically-enhanced humans. I also see many who were either transformed or merely empowered by magic or a magical object.
I wonder first whether a mutate must be genetically altered. Does merely having machinery or a magic crystal or amulet make one a mutate? Does it have to be bonded to the skin or such? Are implants like Songbird's enough? An amulet like Darkhawk's? Adamantium bonded to the bones like Deathstrike? Is Hammerhead a mutate? What about Juggernaut? Donald Pierce? Thunderstrike?
Also, should there be a category for alien or non-human mutates? We have alien mutants, like Warlock, Longshot, Cadre K, and the Brood Mutants. Would Beta Ray Bill be an alien Mutate? All the Galactus Heralds? The Inhumans?
If the character was born with the characteristics, isn't he/she a mutant, or hybrid, or member of a new breed? Atlanteans, or at least Namor's family, aren't mutates, are they? How about the members of ClanDestine (not counting the Djinn)? Eternals? Externals? was Bird-Brain a mutate, or a non-human mutate, or a new breed? What about the New Men? The Young Gods (comics)? Adam Warlock?
And what about mutants that were subsequently enhanced? Wolverine (comics)? Archangel (comics)? Can you be a mutant AND a mutate?
And don't you have to decide what a human is before you can define a mutate? For instance, what about Drax the Destroyer? Is a human spirit animating an artificial form a mutate? What about the High Evolutionary?
And how slight can the difference be? Is Captain America a mutate? If you are just peak-human rather than super-human, does it count? What if it was some sort of intensive training and esoteric techniques rather than a serum or device, ray or spell? Is the key that the change is mutagenic? Where then does magic come in? An amulet that makes you super-powered versus a spell versus a pair of bracelets versus a shard of crystal stuck in your skin versus an implanted device versus a foreign substance bonded to your bones versus boosted adrenaline?
I think this is more complicated than we thought. Rosencomet ( talk) 21:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
We don't know the source of his powers, so how do we know he's a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Granted powers by an ancient yogi? Is he a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Moondragon awakened her latent psionic powers which all humans have. In what way is she a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Origin of powers unknown; could just be from her costume. Not a mutate? Rosencomet ( talk) 17:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Changed by magic, but is the change mutagenic? Are they Mutates? Rosencomet ( talk) 18:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Tuck is an "artificial human" created on another planet. I don't know what this means. A clone? An android? Isn't the original Human Torch an artificial human? I don't see if Tuck can be a mutate, unless further enhanced. Rosencomet ( talk) 19:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
It is unclear if anything mutagenic has been done to Wild Child by the organizations that messed with him. Therefore, while he is a mutant, he does not seem to be a mutate. Rosencomet ( talk) 20:20, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Are they mutates? Rosencomet ( talk) 20:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)