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I strongly recommend that the title of this article be changed to "List of Latin place names in Iberia". In the present day and age, "Iberia" is universally used to refer to Spain plus Portugal. I realize that Latin "Hispania" also referred to the entire Iberian peninsula, but you didn't write Balkans or Continental Europe in Latin, did you? If there were no modern term to refer to the entire peninsula, I would understand the use of the Latin word, but since there is a perfectly good term, namely Iberia, that's the one that should be used. Pasquale 23:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Pedro, you make some good points, but you also make plenty of incorrect statements.
(1) No one says Hispanic Peninsula in English, I guarantee you, it is always the Iberian Peninsula. Also, there are many university programs in "Latin American and Iberian Studies," an expression meant to cover both Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking Latin America and both Spain and Portugal.
(2) The Latin names listed in these articles do not necessarily relate to the Roman period, as you seem to think. As William Allen Simpson makes perfectly clear, they are Latin names from all ages, some very modern indeed. They are in Latin form simply because Latin was the European language of culture throughout the centuries. And Simpson did not name the other articles "List of Latin place names in Italia", or "List of Latin place names in Britannia and Hibernia", etc., so why "List of Latin place names in Hispania"?
(3) The term Iberia relates to the Roman period just as much as Hispania. Iberia was used in Greek, but was not Greek in origin. It was the native name of the Iberians (Iberes). Granted, the Iberians only lived in the Eastern and Southern portions of the Iberian Peninsula (reaching into Southern Portugal, although just barely), however, culturally speaking, they held sway over the entire peninsula. Variants of the Iberian script were adopted by the Celtiberians, the Lusitanians, the Tartessians, in the sense that these scripts are all clearly derived from the Iberian script. Geographically and culturally speaking, "Iberia" clearly applied to the entire peninsula. Remember Maximus, the fictional character in the movie "The Gladiator"? In the movie, he is called "Spaniard". Now, guess how you say that in Latin. Don't know? I'll tell you. You say "Iber" (and that covers, by extension, the whole Iberian Peninsula, not just the people called Iberians). If that movie were to be dubbed in Latin, they would be calling him "Iber", not "Hispanus" or any such thing.
(4) Yes, (Latin) Hispania is of Phoenician origin, but (Greek) Iberia is of Iberian origin, therefore originally a native name.
(5) As regards the modern usage of "Iberia", please refer to the Wikipedia articles Hispania and Iberian Peninsula. The second one starts off like this: "The Iberian Peninsula, or Iberia, is located in the extreme southwest of Europe." Later it lists the countries in the peninsula, as follows: "Spain, occupying the majority of Iberia; Portugal, the westernmost part; etc." The article on Hispania says: "Iberia and Hispania refer not just to modern Spain but to the whole peninsula; Hispania can also rarely include the western part of Roman Mauretania in what is now Morocco." You can clearly see that Iberia is more precise, since we are not including Mauretania here.
Greetings,-- Garcilaso 11:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
It appears that, yesterday, Nuno Tavares unilaterally decided to split the relatively small article List of Latin place names in Iberia into two smaller articles: List of Latin place names in Spain and List of Latin place names in Portugal. I have undone this split. I would like to remind Wikipedia contributors and users of this and other Template:Latin place names articles that the only reason the original article List of Latin place names in Europe was split into five sections ( Balkans, Continental, Iberia, Italy and Malta, and British Isles) is that the article had become too big. But that does not mean that individual articles should be created for each country.
The only reason Nuno Tavares decided to split List of Latin place names in Iberia into two articles seems to be that the Portuguese Wikipedia has two corresponding articles: pt:Topónimos romanos na Espanha and pt:Topónimos romanos em Portugal. I am sorry, but that is not a good enough reason. Pasquale 01:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't really understand this article. Indeed the majority cities names of Spain and Portugal, don't have a Latin origin! Like:
- Cadíz (Gades) or Málaga (Malaca), which are names of phenician origin. - Barcelona (Barcino) or Cartagena (nova cartago) of Carthaginian origin. - Adra, Albacete, Algeciras, Almería, Calatayud, Córdoba, Granada, Jaén, Madrid, Medina-Sidonia, Valladolid... and much of others are of Arab origin.
Thus I would like more precision on the direction of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.164.3.178 ( talk) 00:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
This is way out of my normal editing path, so I'm just going to leave a note here and if anyone is interested they can work on it or contact me if they have questions. This list is very confusing in the way that it links both the Latin and the native name, and the two links often go to different articles, when theoretically they're supposed to be the same town. For example:
These are just a sampling from a few links in one of the sections, there are many more. In my opinion, it would be best to delink all of the Latin names, and leave the links to the proper Iberian towns on the native name side of the list. Exceptions could be made when the Latin name does have a relevant article - for example, Vila Cardílio leads to an article about the Roman ruins. Just my thoughts. Drop a note on my talk page if you have any questions. Dana boomer ( talk) 02:40, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Elvas and in school my teacher taught me the city name was, in the Roman times, "Helvis", and then Helvas, never Dipo. Today was the first time I saw this. Could this be a mistake? Plus, the "Dipo" shortcut redirects to an article about something of Ghana, Africa. Tuggaboy ( talk) 16:00, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
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I strongly recommend that the title of this article be changed to "List of Latin place names in Iberia". In the present day and age, "Iberia" is universally used to refer to Spain plus Portugal. I realize that Latin "Hispania" also referred to the entire Iberian peninsula, but you didn't write Balkans or Continental Europe in Latin, did you? If there were no modern term to refer to the entire peninsula, I would understand the use of the Latin word, but since there is a perfectly good term, namely Iberia, that's the one that should be used. Pasquale 23:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Pedro, you make some good points, but you also make plenty of incorrect statements.
(1) No one says Hispanic Peninsula in English, I guarantee you, it is always the Iberian Peninsula. Also, there are many university programs in "Latin American and Iberian Studies," an expression meant to cover both Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking Latin America and both Spain and Portugal.
(2) The Latin names listed in these articles do not necessarily relate to the Roman period, as you seem to think. As William Allen Simpson makes perfectly clear, they are Latin names from all ages, some very modern indeed. They are in Latin form simply because Latin was the European language of culture throughout the centuries. And Simpson did not name the other articles "List of Latin place names in Italia", or "List of Latin place names in Britannia and Hibernia", etc., so why "List of Latin place names in Hispania"?
(3) The term Iberia relates to the Roman period just as much as Hispania. Iberia was used in Greek, but was not Greek in origin. It was the native name of the Iberians (Iberes). Granted, the Iberians only lived in the Eastern and Southern portions of the Iberian Peninsula (reaching into Southern Portugal, although just barely), however, culturally speaking, they held sway over the entire peninsula. Variants of the Iberian script were adopted by the Celtiberians, the Lusitanians, the Tartessians, in the sense that these scripts are all clearly derived from the Iberian script. Geographically and culturally speaking, "Iberia" clearly applied to the entire peninsula. Remember Maximus, the fictional character in the movie "The Gladiator"? In the movie, he is called "Spaniard". Now, guess how you say that in Latin. Don't know? I'll tell you. You say "Iber" (and that covers, by extension, the whole Iberian Peninsula, not just the people called Iberians). If that movie were to be dubbed in Latin, they would be calling him "Iber", not "Hispanus" or any such thing.
(4) Yes, (Latin) Hispania is of Phoenician origin, but (Greek) Iberia is of Iberian origin, therefore originally a native name.
(5) As regards the modern usage of "Iberia", please refer to the Wikipedia articles Hispania and Iberian Peninsula. The second one starts off like this: "The Iberian Peninsula, or Iberia, is located in the extreme southwest of Europe." Later it lists the countries in the peninsula, as follows: "Spain, occupying the majority of Iberia; Portugal, the westernmost part; etc." The article on Hispania says: "Iberia and Hispania refer not just to modern Spain but to the whole peninsula; Hispania can also rarely include the western part of Roman Mauretania in what is now Morocco." You can clearly see that Iberia is more precise, since we are not including Mauretania here.
Greetings,-- Garcilaso 11:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
It appears that, yesterday, Nuno Tavares unilaterally decided to split the relatively small article List of Latin place names in Iberia into two smaller articles: List of Latin place names in Spain and List of Latin place names in Portugal. I have undone this split. I would like to remind Wikipedia contributors and users of this and other Template:Latin place names articles that the only reason the original article List of Latin place names in Europe was split into five sections ( Balkans, Continental, Iberia, Italy and Malta, and British Isles) is that the article had become too big. But that does not mean that individual articles should be created for each country.
The only reason Nuno Tavares decided to split List of Latin place names in Iberia into two articles seems to be that the Portuguese Wikipedia has two corresponding articles: pt:Topónimos romanos na Espanha and pt:Topónimos romanos em Portugal. I am sorry, but that is not a good enough reason. Pasquale 01:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't really understand this article. Indeed the majority cities names of Spain and Portugal, don't have a Latin origin! Like:
- Cadíz (Gades) or Málaga (Malaca), which are names of phenician origin. - Barcelona (Barcino) or Cartagena (nova cartago) of Carthaginian origin. - Adra, Albacete, Algeciras, Almería, Calatayud, Córdoba, Granada, Jaén, Madrid, Medina-Sidonia, Valladolid... and much of others are of Arab origin.
Thus I would like more precision on the direction of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.164.3.178 ( talk) 00:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
This is way out of my normal editing path, so I'm just going to leave a note here and if anyone is interested they can work on it or contact me if they have questions. This list is very confusing in the way that it links both the Latin and the native name, and the two links often go to different articles, when theoretically they're supposed to be the same town. For example:
These are just a sampling from a few links in one of the sections, there are many more. In my opinion, it would be best to delink all of the Latin names, and leave the links to the proper Iberian towns on the native name side of the list. Exceptions could be made when the Latin name does have a relevant article - for example, Vila Cardílio leads to an article about the Roman ruins. Just my thoughts. Drop a note on my talk page if you have any questions. Dana boomer ( talk) 02:40, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Elvas and in school my teacher taught me the city name was, in the Roman times, "Helvis", and then Helvas, never Dipo. Today was the first time I saw this. Could this be a mistake? Plus, the "Dipo" shortcut redirects to an article about something of Ghana, Africa. Tuggaboy ( talk) 16:00, 5 March 2012 (UTC)