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This whole article needs to show etymological proof of the word relationships. Many words here are not Greek in origin. If this is not implemented, I will start to delete those which have no relationship to Ancient Greek because otherwise the article serves only as an incomplete Greek vocabulary list. -- Mrg3105 20:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
"America" doesn't seem to meet any of the criteria for inclusion in this list:
Adam 03:47, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
With the exception of Plato, Homer, Apollodoros, Plutarch, Eratosthenes, Stesichorus and more. See also Scheria.-- Odysses 15:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Well, "America" is just one example of the problem. But the same issue is raised by a number of other forms in the list, such as Australia Αὐστραλία, Hamburg Ἁμβοῦργον, Berlin Βερολῖνον, Bloemfontein Μπλουμφοντέïν, Καμπέρα Canberra, Καζακστάν Kazakhstan, and so on and so forth. What's the point in having these names (and many others) in this list, esp. the supposedly Ancient Greek column?! OK it's great fun to imagine Plato or Homer saying 'Kasdakstán' [and perhaps Βῶρατ ‘Borat’ ;-) ], but as far as encyclopaedic accuracy is concerned, I find it problematic to introduce fake ancient names that just never existed. Do you see what I mean? Needless to say, the rest of the list is great, and incredibly useful; and of course, having ancient names listed for Ireland, Ethiopia, Caucasus…, is perfectly OK, since these words appear as early as Herodotus or Plato (even Homer for Ethiopia!), if I remember well. Womtelo 15:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Let me add one line: I'm not even sure the inclusion of these names is justified by their use in Modern Greek either, at least in those cases when they are no more than a phonemic transcription of the vernacular or international form (exception = Berolinon). Otherwise the list should include all names of countries, capitals, important cities, and so on, which would be just too much. [interested people should visit the Greek WP in that case]. I hope you get my point. Cheers, Womtelo 14:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty new to Wikipedia editing, but I think the removal of the modern terms as is suggested by Womtelo and others on this discussion page would be the right thing to do. I first thought this when I was looking over the list before I read the discussion. In the spirit of the various Wikipedia rules, and to be germane to the idea of the list itself, I don't believe items such as 'Washington, D.C.' should be included. This is my vote for 'against.' Thanks for your consideration. C. Shanks, 7 December 2006
I know I originally put them all in to begin with, but I'm seriously wondering now if this article even needs IPA sections. It would seem to me that the Dimotikí data should be enough, and that anyone who cares enough about Dimotikí would learn about it and its phonology. Is this an improper assumption? Besides, many of the Dimotikí forms are academic, and modern Greek uses different names for many places, such as Μάλτα (instead of traditional Μελίτη) for Malta. - Gilgamesh 10:38, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion. The result was no consensus. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of traditional Greek place names · Katefan0 (scribble) 02:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC) Well, it is maybe because "Kazakstan" is not from a greek stem, nor "America" (Amerigo Vespucci) Also, Magnesia is now Manisa.
The article does not satisfy its own objective of showing that these words are derived from TRADITIONAL Greek! In order to be traditional, they have to have had use in Greek, and most did not. Further they need to satisfy some elymological logic and none of the terms do that either. In fact many other specific Wikipedia entries contradict etymology of entries here creating real confusion and ambiguity contrary to intent of Wikipedia rules.
--
Mrg3105
07:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Isn't the list too eterogenous? I mean wouldn't it be better to leave on this list only the names knew by ancient & Byzantine Greeks and put in another page, or at least in a distinct section, the names which come 1) from an official name 2) from a Greek stem? Aldux 09:53, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
This artice seems to be using two different transliteration schemes for the Modern Greek versions, headed Dimotikí and Dhimotiki respectively. This is nowhere explained. I propose that one or the other of these should be removed, as the present duplication is just confusing, particularly for those who are not so familiar with Modern Greek. Ideally we should use the "standard" transliteration, if we can decide which this is! -- rossb 17:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe it's just me, but I think this article's layout could use some major work. The lists seem inconsistent and can be slightly confusing to read. By comparison, Latin names of rivers, for example, is a much "nicer" looking article and is much easier to read. This article, IMO, could stand to be reformatted to such a layout. RobertM525 02:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Το τοπωνύμιο "Πέργαμος" είναι ελληνικό ή προέρχεται από κάποια άλλη αρχαία γλώσσα;
Is the place name "Pergamon" Greek or does it come from another ancient language?
Petros The Hellene 20:41, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Dear Petros The Hellene,
I have heard that The name "Pergamon" is actually a word of Anatolian origin apart from Greek. The natives of Anatolia is actually different than of the Greeks. I have heard that after the immigrations from Greece, Greek is used more than of Anatolian languages. There might be a chance of the word "Pergamon" being the merging of the different languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.100.144.52 ( talk) 20:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
To counter some of the criticism on the talk page, I think this is a really useful article, and in an encyclopaedia, useful is good. Thanks to Gilgamesh for creating it. On layout: moving the contents box to the top/minimising the introduction would make it easier to navigate. Njál 16:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi.
I noticed that this contains too many "modern" names, which do not belong in a list of "traditional" names, therefore I suggest they be either placed in a separate article or removed completely ( Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and Greek translations can be found in Wiktionary.). 170.215.83.83 08:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Istropolis is the ancient Greek name for Bratislava, but it was artificially coined in the Middle Ages. Is it eligible for placement in this list? Does anybody know the Greek spelling? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jancikotuc ( talk • contribs) 15:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC).
According to the criteria at the top of the article, the list includes:
This means that the list should not simply be a directory of the names of all places in Greek. The names should have a direct connection to Greek culture and the Greek language. Why does the list then include cities and countries like Saint Petersburg, Cape Town, Hamburg, Australia, Belgium, Berlin, Beirut, Wallachia, Bonn, Bucharest, Brazil, Brussels, Germany, Switzerland, etcetera? These place names bear no relation to the Greek language, and as such are not Greek place names. A ecis Brievenbus 11:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, the "cleanup IPA" tag doesn't say exactly that, but it's easy to fix: The stress mark goes before the stressed syllable, not the stressed vowel. When we write *[eolikˈa nisçˈa], we're saying that the syllabification is *[e.o.lik.a nisç.a], when it should be [e.o.li.ka nis.ça] ([eoliˈka nisˈça). Actually, because of people copying from US dictionaries, I would think that this was supposed to be *Αιολίκα Νήσια if I didn't have the Greek right there to correct me. kwami ( talk) 02:42, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
"Including, but not limited to" is lawyer-speak and is unnecessary since "including" implies additional items already. -- Unimath ( talk) 17:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
The introduction seems to imply that because of the Great Schism, the Eastern Orthodox church is not Christian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't this say Catholic instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.112.222.179 ( talk) 16:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Call me crazy, but I think the meaning of many of these names would be of as much or more interest than the fine points of transliteration. I realize that in some cases, we aren't going to know the origin of these names, but in the cases where it is possible to provide this, I think it would be nice to do so.
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
This whole article needs to show etymological proof of the word relationships. Many words here are not Greek in origin. If this is not implemented, I will start to delete those which have no relationship to Ancient Greek because otherwise the article serves only as an incomplete Greek vocabulary list. -- Mrg3105 20:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
"America" doesn't seem to meet any of the criteria for inclusion in this list:
Adam 03:47, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
With the exception of Plato, Homer, Apollodoros, Plutarch, Eratosthenes, Stesichorus and more. See also Scheria.-- Odysses 15:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Well, "America" is just one example of the problem. But the same issue is raised by a number of other forms in the list, such as Australia Αὐστραλία, Hamburg Ἁμβοῦργον, Berlin Βερολῖνον, Bloemfontein Μπλουμφοντέïν, Καμπέρα Canberra, Καζακστάν Kazakhstan, and so on and so forth. What's the point in having these names (and many others) in this list, esp. the supposedly Ancient Greek column?! OK it's great fun to imagine Plato or Homer saying 'Kasdakstán' [and perhaps Βῶρατ ‘Borat’ ;-) ], but as far as encyclopaedic accuracy is concerned, I find it problematic to introduce fake ancient names that just never existed. Do you see what I mean? Needless to say, the rest of the list is great, and incredibly useful; and of course, having ancient names listed for Ireland, Ethiopia, Caucasus…, is perfectly OK, since these words appear as early as Herodotus or Plato (even Homer for Ethiopia!), if I remember well. Womtelo 15:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Let me add one line: I'm not even sure the inclusion of these names is justified by their use in Modern Greek either, at least in those cases when they are no more than a phonemic transcription of the vernacular or international form (exception = Berolinon). Otherwise the list should include all names of countries, capitals, important cities, and so on, which would be just too much. [interested people should visit the Greek WP in that case]. I hope you get my point. Cheers, Womtelo 14:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty new to Wikipedia editing, but I think the removal of the modern terms as is suggested by Womtelo and others on this discussion page would be the right thing to do. I first thought this when I was looking over the list before I read the discussion. In the spirit of the various Wikipedia rules, and to be germane to the idea of the list itself, I don't believe items such as 'Washington, D.C.' should be included. This is my vote for 'against.' Thanks for your consideration. C. Shanks, 7 December 2006
I know I originally put them all in to begin with, but I'm seriously wondering now if this article even needs IPA sections. It would seem to me that the Dimotikí data should be enough, and that anyone who cares enough about Dimotikí would learn about it and its phonology. Is this an improper assumption? Besides, many of the Dimotikí forms are academic, and modern Greek uses different names for many places, such as Μάλτα (instead of traditional Μελίτη) for Malta. - Gilgamesh 10:38, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion. The result was no consensus. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of traditional Greek place names · Katefan0 (scribble) 02:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC) Well, it is maybe because "Kazakstan" is not from a greek stem, nor "America" (Amerigo Vespucci) Also, Magnesia is now Manisa.
The article does not satisfy its own objective of showing that these words are derived from TRADITIONAL Greek! In order to be traditional, they have to have had use in Greek, and most did not. Further they need to satisfy some elymological logic and none of the terms do that either. In fact many other specific Wikipedia entries contradict etymology of entries here creating real confusion and ambiguity contrary to intent of Wikipedia rules.
--
Mrg3105
07:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Isn't the list too eterogenous? I mean wouldn't it be better to leave on this list only the names knew by ancient & Byzantine Greeks and put in another page, or at least in a distinct section, the names which come 1) from an official name 2) from a Greek stem? Aldux 09:53, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
This artice seems to be using two different transliteration schemes for the Modern Greek versions, headed Dimotikí and Dhimotiki respectively. This is nowhere explained. I propose that one or the other of these should be removed, as the present duplication is just confusing, particularly for those who are not so familiar with Modern Greek. Ideally we should use the "standard" transliteration, if we can decide which this is! -- rossb 17:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe it's just me, but I think this article's layout could use some major work. The lists seem inconsistent and can be slightly confusing to read. By comparison, Latin names of rivers, for example, is a much "nicer" looking article and is much easier to read. This article, IMO, could stand to be reformatted to such a layout. RobertM525 02:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Το τοπωνύμιο "Πέργαμος" είναι ελληνικό ή προέρχεται από κάποια άλλη αρχαία γλώσσα;
Is the place name "Pergamon" Greek or does it come from another ancient language?
Petros The Hellene 20:41, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Dear Petros The Hellene,
I have heard that The name "Pergamon" is actually a word of Anatolian origin apart from Greek. The natives of Anatolia is actually different than of the Greeks. I have heard that after the immigrations from Greece, Greek is used more than of Anatolian languages. There might be a chance of the word "Pergamon" being the merging of the different languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.100.144.52 ( talk) 20:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
To counter some of the criticism on the talk page, I think this is a really useful article, and in an encyclopaedia, useful is good. Thanks to Gilgamesh for creating it. On layout: moving the contents box to the top/minimising the introduction would make it easier to navigate. Njál 16:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi.
I noticed that this contains too many "modern" names, which do not belong in a list of "traditional" names, therefore I suggest they be either placed in a separate article or removed completely ( Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and Greek translations can be found in Wiktionary.). 170.215.83.83 08:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Istropolis is the ancient Greek name for Bratislava, but it was artificially coined in the Middle Ages. Is it eligible for placement in this list? Does anybody know the Greek spelling? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jancikotuc ( talk • contribs) 15:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC).
According to the criteria at the top of the article, the list includes:
This means that the list should not simply be a directory of the names of all places in Greek. The names should have a direct connection to Greek culture and the Greek language. Why does the list then include cities and countries like Saint Petersburg, Cape Town, Hamburg, Australia, Belgium, Berlin, Beirut, Wallachia, Bonn, Bucharest, Brazil, Brussels, Germany, Switzerland, etcetera? These place names bear no relation to the Greek language, and as such are not Greek place names. A ecis Brievenbus 11:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, the "cleanup IPA" tag doesn't say exactly that, but it's easy to fix: The stress mark goes before the stressed syllable, not the stressed vowel. When we write *[eolikˈa nisçˈa], we're saying that the syllabification is *[e.o.lik.a nisç.a], when it should be [e.o.li.ka nis.ça] ([eoliˈka nisˈça). Actually, because of people copying from US dictionaries, I would think that this was supposed to be *Αιολίκα Νήσια if I didn't have the Greek right there to correct me. kwami ( talk) 02:42, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
"Including, but not limited to" is lawyer-speak and is unnecessary since "including" implies additional items already. -- Unimath ( talk) 17:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
The introduction seems to imply that because of the Great Schism, the Eastern Orthodox church is not Christian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't this say Catholic instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.112.222.179 ( talk) 16:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Call me crazy, but I think the meaning of many of these names would be of as much or more interest than the fine points of transliteration. I realize that in some cases, we aren't going to know the origin of these names, but in the cases where it is possible to provide this, I think it would be nice to do so.