This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of Eurovision Song Contest winners article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Archives: 1, 2 |
![]() | List of Eurovision Song Contest winners is a featured list, which means it has been identified as one of the best lists produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured list on May 28, 2012. | |||||||||
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Frequently asked questions Q1: Why does the article refer to the
Federal Republic of Germany as "West Germany" when no such country existed?
A1: Prior to the
German reunification of 1990, Germany was divided in two -
German Democratic Republic (commonly known as East Germany) and the
Federal Republic of Germany (commonly known as West Germany). Per
Wikipedia guidance a name which is more commonly known is permissible to be used within articles. Q2: Why does the winner's map show Germany as having separate wins, when in fact they have won twice in
1982 and
2010?
A2: The
European Broadcasting Union records show that only the
Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) participated in the Eurovision Song Contest prior to the
German reunification. Therefore the German win of
1982, which was pre-reunification, is shown as being credited to the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany). The win of
2010 happened after post-reunification, is therefore shown on the map as being a win for the reunified nation. A footnote is included on all article's that use the map to provide explanation of this factor. |
![]() | This article is rated FL-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To claim something else is simply counter-factual! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.172.99.168 ( talk) 13:32, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Aca Srbin ( talk · contribs), recently included a brief mention about Kosovo within the referenced note for the map ( see diff). Seeing as Kosovo is only partially recognised, should we be mentioning the region, or omit the information until Kosovo becomes a fully recognised nation? Wes Mouse ✒ 13:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
I added this several years ago, but it was removed.
Margins are useless without the total number of points awarded. If you win by 10 points, it makes a difference if it's 10 out of 11 or 10 out of 1000 points. The first case is a decisive win. The second is a close race. But you can't tell if you don't know how many points you're competing for. And the total changes frequently at Eurovision.
So, even at the risk of the table becoming messy by adding another column, I say we should include the total number of points. Perhaps even winning percentages.
Nabuking ( talk) 15:15, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
There is a very excessive number of photos currently in the gallery section, to the extent that it is looking like photo-overkill and in violation of WP:NOTGALLERY. The detailed guidance outlined in regards to the image galleries policy states that images should be in moderation and not be a means to "shoehorn images into an article". Recommendation is to provide a link to commons, which has already been in place for years now. I've been to commons and given categorisation to all of the winners images to enable this function to work properly. However, upon further analysis, it seems that we can have an article purely on images (see Gallery of flags of dependent territories as an example). Should we be looking towards creating an article along those lines? Because just think how this very article is going to look when Eurovision hits 100. It is going to look a complete mess and overcrowded with images. Action needs to be taken now before it gets out of hand.
Any views on this matter of urgency? Wes Mouse T@lk 04:24, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Wayy too much vandelism already. Only needs one edit when all the results are given.
DJBay123 ( talk) 21:09, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Cyprus' best position received from 5th to 2nd in "By Country" section. They got runner up in 2018. 2001:56A:F316:6000:CDCF:2639:220C:3299 ( talk) 22:57, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:23, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
In the table of winning entries, all languages are listed alongside the flag of the country associated with the language. This is misleading, the languages don't have flags themselves. Furthermore, the table is already full of flags (at least three per row), so the language flags should be removed. Thoughts? Lordtobi ( ✉) 18:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Bring it back — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lonewolef1 ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
On 16 May, I merged List of Eurovision Song Contest winning songwriters into this article. The contents of this merger was removed by User:Lonewolef1 with the explanation "there is a whole page for the song writers they do not need to be on this page". As the songwriters article no longer holds content (due to the merger), I interpreted their good faith reversion to have been made with the belief the songwriters' article still exists. As the article doesn't exist anymore and as User:Lonewolef1 did not restore that article to it's pre-merger state, I saw no opposition to the principle of the merger so restored my edits. My restoration was subsequently reverted by User:Grk1011 on the grounds that "It's pretty clear that your bold merge was opposed." It isn't clear my merge was opposed. It was either very, very ambiguously opposed or not opposed at all. I am therefore restoring my edits. If any editor wishes to oppose the merger, please state so plainly and we can start a discussion. N4 ( talk) 20:46, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
There is a Hole page dedicated to the songwriters they do not need to be on this page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lonewolef1 ( talk • contribs) 17:04, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
It has been removed and readded several times now. I personally don't like it, because there is no official way to rank countries on Eurovision, and because this is a list of winners (and that table includes lots of non-winning acts). However, what do you all think of it? JochemvanHees ( talk) 12:07, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
A user has added a list of deceased winners to the article. I believe that it is WP:TRIVIA and attempted to remove it. I do not see how knowing when each winner passed away adds to the article. It is irrelevant to the subject of the article, which is "who won the contest". The user is insistent that this unsourced material remain pending the outcome of this discussion, even though this is atypical and problematic for a WP:Featured List. Grk1011 ( talk) 13:12, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
A recent edit by an IP user grouped a bunch of cells in the winners table merely because they had the same content. In my opinion, this is very unnecessary, because it makes the table look kind of broken, I guess? Particularly with Ireland's victories in the mid ninetiees. But I can't find anything about it on the manual of style, so I'd like your opinions on this.
I do however think that there should be grouping in the 1969 contest, because that was one contest. But with the Irish victories, those were separate victories and should be listed separately, not as one. JochemvanHees ( talk) 16:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
I have lately seen several people adding the 2020 and 2021 editions to the table. I personally oppose this, as I have mentioned in my edit description: this is a list of winners, not a list of editions, so it doesn't make sense to include editions in which there is no winner (yet).
@ ApprenticeFan: I don't doubt that the information is correct. I'm just arguing that it shouldn't be on this page.
― JochemvanHees ( talk) 13:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
I've been reading over this list recently, and I've noticed that despite this list having featured status, there are no citations for any of the information in the main table. This would be concerning on any list, but given the page's status, their absence here is particularly problematic. Does anyone know if there are sources for all of the information listed in the table, including details like the point totals and languages? Without sources, much of that information should be removed. RunningTiger123 ( talk) 18:04, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:39, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:07, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi, Sims2aholic8, I'm sorry, but I don't follow the logic of not having the # of entries in the table of winners? It's as relevant as the margin of win. That information is also probably available elsewhere, but it makes sense to include it in the winners table, as it gives context for the win. The same is true for the number of entries each year. It gives context, as one can see how much the contest has developed over the years and better explains the meaning of a win each year. It's certainly a part of the info I was looking for when I was looking for this table, and when I saw it was missing, I've been going to each contest page individually to find that information. It's a lot of effort to get that info, and I think it should be more comfortably available to view in one list together with the winners. Darren.enlight ( talk) 17:16, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Add an image of Kalush Orchestra from Ukraine in the gallery since they have now won the 2022 contest
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:37, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
I find myself taking some issue with this column, which appears to be a recent addition. Looking through its contents I find it somewhat misleading, since it's trying to compare winning scores from a variety of different voting systems which I don't believe are comparable, and it also presents information out of context without giving enough explanation of the nuances between winning scores. In addition I feel like it might fall foul of WP:NOTSTATS as well, so I would suggest removing this column. Sims2aholic8 ( talk) 22:27, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Chanel is the TRUE WINNER of Eurovision 2022. Is it not a vandalism. Ukraine only won for pity of the war. Justice for CHANEL, please! Eurofan All Years ( talk) 13:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
editing (or other behavior) deliberately intended to obstruct or defeat the project's purpose. If you continue to be disruptive you will be blocked from editing. Sims2aholic8 ( talk) 13:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
the information is present on wikipedia already. somevody just needs to compile it into a list. it is of statistical importance. 84.208.108.74 ( talk) 13:16, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Lots of contest winners have competed more than once (ex. Carola [winner for Sweden 1991] also competed in 1983 and 2006, Dana International [winner for Israel 1998] also competed in 2011, Corry Brokken [winner for the Netherlands in 1957] also competed in 1956 and 1958). I suggest the addition of a table listing winning artists with multiple entries, the year they won, the other years they entered, and the non-winning songs they competed with. Maybe it could include a column with placements of the non-winning entries (Carola came 5th in 2006, Lena [winner for Germany in 2010] came 10th in 2011, etc), but that might also be better left to the pages for the individual contests by year. It's a big deal when a winner comes back to the contest (see: Loreen in 2023, Alexander Rybak in 2018), so I think it's noteworthy enough to merit inclusion. At the very least, I'm not aware of an official table listing these entries, and I think it could fit well on this page. Wishmaker05 ( talk) 03:53, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of Eurovision Song Contest winners article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
![]() | List of Eurovision Song Contest winners is a featured list, which means it has been identified as one of the best lists produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured list on May 28, 2012. | |||||||||
|
Frequently asked questions Q1: Why does the article refer to the
Federal Republic of Germany as "West Germany" when no such country existed?
A1: Prior to the
German reunification of 1990, Germany was divided in two -
German Democratic Republic (commonly known as East Germany) and the
Federal Republic of Germany (commonly known as West Germany). Per
Wikipedia guidance a name which is more commonly known is permissible to be used within articles. Q2: Why does the winner's map show Germany as having separate wins, when in fact they have won twice in
1982 and
2010?
A2: The
European Broadcasting Union records show that only the
Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) participated in the Eurovision Song Contest prior to the
German reunification. Therefore the German win of
1982, which was pre-reunification, is shown as being credited to the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany). The win of
2010 happened after post-reunification, is therefore shown on the map as being a win for the reunified nation. A footnote is included on all article's that use the map to provide explanation of this factor. |
![]() | This article is rated FL-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To claim something else is simply counter-factual! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.172.99.168 ( talk) 13:32, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Aca Srbin ( talk · contribs), recently included a brief mention about Kosovo within the referenced note for the map ( see diff). Seeing as Kosovo is only partially recognised, should we be mentioning the region, or omit the information until Kosovo becomes a fully recognised nation? Wes Mouse ✒ 13:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
I added this several years ago, but it was removed.
Margins are useless without the total number of points awarded. If you win by 10 points, it makes a difference if it's 10 out of 11 or 10 out of 1000 points. The first case is a decisive win. The second is a close race. But you can't tell if you don't know how many points you're competing for. And the total changes frequently at Eurovision.
So, even at the risk of the table becoming messy by adding another column, I say we should include the total number of points. Perhaps even winning percentages.
Nabuking ( talk) 15:15, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
There is a very excessive number of photos currently in the gallery section, to the extent that it is looking like photo-overkill and in violation of WP:NOTGALLERY. The detailed guidance outlined in regards to the image galleries policy states that images should be in moderation and not be a means to "shoehorn images into an article". Recommendation is to provide a link to commons, which has already been in place for years now. I've been to commons and given categorisation to all of the winners images to enable this function to work properly. However, upon further analysis, it seems that we can have an article purely on images (see Gallery of flags of dependent territories as an example). Should we be looking towards creating an article along those lines? Because just think how this very article is going to look when Eurovision hits 100. It is going to look a complete mess and overcrowded with images. Action needs to be taken now before it gets out of hand.
Any views on this matter of urgency? Wes Mouse T@lk 04:24, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Wayy too much vandelism already. Only needs one edit when all the results are given.
DJBay123 ( talk) 21:09, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Cyprus' best position received from 5th to 2nd in "By Country" section. They got runner up in 2018. 2001:56A:F316:6000:CDCF:2639:220C:3299 ( talk) 22:57, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:23, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
In the table of winning entries, all languages are listed alongside the flag of the country associated with the language. This is misleading, the languages don't have flags themselves. Furthermore, the table is already full of flags (at least three per row), so the language flags should be removed. Thoughts? Lordtobi ( ✉) 18:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Bring it back — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lonewolef1 ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
On 16 May, I merged List of Eurovision Song Contest winning songwriters into this article. The contents of this merger was removed by User:Lonewolef1 with the explanation "there is a whole page for the song writers they do not need to be on this page". As the songwriters article no longer holds content (due to the merger), I interpreted their good faith reversion to have been made with the belief the songwriters' article still exists. As the article doesn't exist anymore and as User:Lonewolef1 did not restore that article to it's pre-merger state, I saw no opposition to the principle of the merger so restored my edits. My restoration was subsequently reverted by User:Grk1011 on the grounds that "It's pretty clear that your bold merge was opposed." It isn't clear my merge was opposed. It was either very, very ambiguously opposed or not opposed at all. I am therefore restoring my edits. If any editor wishes to oppose the merger, please state so plainly and we can start a discussion. N4 ( talk) 20:46, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
There is a Hole page dedicated to the songwriters they do not need to be on this page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lonewolef1 ( talk • contribs) 17:04, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
It has been removed and readded several times now. I personally don't like it, because there is no official way to rank countries on Eurovision, and because this is a list of winners (and that table includes lots of non-winning acts). However, what do you all think of it? JochemvanHees ( talk) 12:07, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
A user has added a list of deceased winners to the article. I believe that it is WP:TRIVIA and attempted to remove it. I do not see how knowing when each winner passed away adds to the article. It is irrelevant to the subject of the article, which is "who won the contest". The user is insistent that this unsourced material remain pending the outcome of this discussion, even though this is atypical and problematic for a WP:Featured List. Grk1011 ( talk) 13:12, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
A recent edit by an IP user grouped a bunch of cells in the winners table merely because they had the same content. In my opinion, this is very unnecessary, because it makes the table look kind of broken, I guess? Particularly with Ireland's victories in the mid ninetiees. But I can't find anything about it on the manual of style, so I'd like your opinions on this.
I do however think that there should be grouping in the 1969 contest, because that was one contest. But with the Irish victories, those were separate victories and should be listed separately, not as one. JochemvanHees ( talk) 16:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
I have lately seen several people adding the 2020 and 2021 editions to the table. I personally oppose this, as I have mentioned in my edit description: this is a list of winners, not a list of editions, so it doesn't make sense to include editions in which there is no winner (yet).
@ ApprenticeFan: I don't doubt that the information is correct. I'm just arguing that it shouldn't be on this page.
― JochemvanHees ( talk) 13:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
I've been reading over this list recently, and I've noticed that despite this list having featured status, there are no citations for any of the information in the main table. This would be concerning on any list, but given the page's status, their absence here is particularly problematic. Does anyone know if there are sources for all of the information listed in the table, including details like the point totals and languages? Without sources, much of that information should be removed. RunningTiger123 ( talk) 18:04, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:39, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:07, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi, Sims2aholic8, I'm sorry, but I don't follow the logic of not having the # of entries in the table of winners? It's as relevant as the margin of win. That information is also probably available elsewhere, but it makes sense to include it in the winners table, as it gives context for the win. The same is true for the number of entries each year. It gives context, as one can see how much the contest has developed over the years and better explains the meaning of a win each year. It's certainly a part of the info I was looking for when I was looking for this table, and when I saw it was missing, I've been going to each contest page individually to find that information. It's a lot of effort to get that info, and I think it should be more comfortably available to view in one list together with the winners. Darren.enlight ( talk) 17:16, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Add an image of Kalush Orchestra from Ukraine in the gallery since they have now won the 2022 contest
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:37, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
I find myself taking some issue with this column, which appears to be a recent addition. Looking through its contents I find it somewhat misleading, since it's trying to compare winning scores from a variety of different voting systems which I don't believe are comparable, and it also presents information out of context without giving enough explanation of the nuances between winning scores. In addition I feel like it might fall foul of WP:NOTSTATS as well, so I would suggest removing this column. Sims2aholic8 ( talk) 22:27, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Chanel is the TRUE WINNER of Eurovision 2022. Is it not a vandalism. Ukraine only won for pity of the war. Justice for CHANEL, please! Eurofan All Years ( talk) 13:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
editing (or other behavior) deliberately intended to obstruct or defeat the project's purpose. If you continue to be disruptive you will be blocked from editing. Sims2aholic8 ( talk) 13:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
the information is present on wikipedia already. somevody just needs to compile it into a list. it is of statistical importance. 84.208.108.74 ( talk) 13:16, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Lots of contest winners have competed more than once (ex. Carola [winner for Sweden 1991] also competed in 1983 and 2006, Dana International [winner for Israel 1998] also competed in 2011, Corry Brokken [winner for the Netherlands in 1957] also competed in 1956 and 1958). I suggest the addition of a table listing winning artists with multiple entries, the year they won, the other years they entered, and the non-winning songs they competed with. Maybe it could include a column with placements of the non-winning entries (Carola came 5th in 2006, Lena [winner for Germany in 2010] came 10th in 2011, etc), but that might also be better left to the pages for the individual contests by year. It's a big deal when a winner comes back to the contest (see: Loreen in 2023, Alexander Rybak in 2018), so I think it's noteworthy enough to merit inclusion. At the very least, I'm not aware of an official table listing these entries, and I think it could fit well on this page. Wishmaker05 ( talk) 03:53, 25 August 2023 (UTC)