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I assume that "cross" refers to the meaning "angry", since "cross" as in "X" comes by way of French, n'est-ce pas? Or did the Anglo-Saxons get it from the Celtic Christians when they came to England, and if so, wouldn't it be borrowed from a Brythonic language? It would be nice if this were cleared up.
the English word "cross" was definitely infulenced by the Irish monks. Had it not been, the English word would have been probably similar to "crutch". Personally, I think this list (as well as the article List_of_English_words_of_Irish_origin) should be subsumed under a title such as List_of_English_words_of_Celtic_origin...
It would be good if a distinction between words that originate from Irish and from Scottish could be made, rather than assuming a simultaneous adoption. For example, I'm not aware that the leprechaun makes an appearance in Scottish legends or stories. griff 18:04, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"Crack" is actually of English origins, borrowed by Gaelic; the Gaelic spelling "craic" began to be used in English less than 20 years ago. See the Wickipedia pages on "crack"/"craic", especially the Discussion page.
I'm just an American, but shouldn't the word "glamour" (spelled "glamor" over here) be included on the list of English words of Scottish Gaelic origin?
Sorry to ask, but the article is about "scottish gaelic" words: Banshee is an irish gaelic word. Bean Nighe is the scottish form, is it not? -- 81.178.67.184 15:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Seems to me that plaid in English must mention plaid in Ghaidlig which means blanket. The kilt used to be a blanket with about 12 square yards of cloth. One laid it down on the ground, and folded it over oneself, tying it with a pin. Seems to me that this is a much more logical origin than what is now in the entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrmckinney ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Not only are some of the listed words dubious as regards to who borrowed from whom, not only are some of them ones that are cognates who share a common root, but aren't the root of each other, BUT some of them could have come from Gaelic, could have come from Irish, could have come from Welsh, could have come from Gallovidian, could have come from Cumbric, could have come from Cornish, could have come from Manx etc...
Wouldn't it be better to have a list of words of Celtic origin, stating (if possible) which Celtic languages are candidate sources?
Also, there's a missing "via Scots" on many of the entries. "Benn", for example, was borrowed into Scots from Gaelic, from where it has been incorporated into English. (Although even then, it's hardly English) Prof Wrong ( talk) 18:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
This page is just getting more and more confusing.
Why is it that bog is a Gaelic word, but inch is possibly Irish, possibly Gaelic? Both terms are used on both sides of the Irish Sea. In fact, I've only noticed inch used in the northern parts of Ireland, where the Scots speaking settlers went, whereas there's bogs all over the island.
But then again, inch in Scots may even originate in Brythonic.
It just seems to me that this topic is too messy to address adequately on a site like this. Prof Wrong ( talk) 11:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Prof Wrong, Inch goes in English (certainly the form of it used in Lowland Scotland) from Scottish Gaelic, there are very early occurrences of it. As Scots is, for most academics around the world, clearly part of English, the artificial distinction between "Scots" and the bundled group of other varieties of English isn't important for an article like this. Given the topic is "Scottish Gaelic", then coming into English usage in Scotland first would be natural and expected. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 14:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
Maybe they could, we're not dealing with that issue here. The two main issues when dealing with Scots are the more or less universally accepted criterium of mutual intellegibility (whether one likes the outcome or not from a sociopolitical POV) and the issue of language shift/merger and I think you're kinda ignoring the second one. Most Scandinavian languages were moving massively towards adopting Danish features during the period of strong Danish influence - does that mean because Icelandic/Faroese/Norwegian were becoming more and more intelligible to a Dane, that at the stage before they started doing that they weren't seperate languages? Akerbeltz ( talk) 08:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
At the bottom of Wikipedia's
List of Arabic loanwords in English you can find links to five whole books devoted to the etymology of English words. The books are freely downloadable. On the basis of what's in those books, I made the following notes about the current Scottish Gaelic origins page, and I'll soon be making the following changes:
DELETE Dig, Twig, Tinker -- Old English words of ultimate Germanic orign.
DELETE Glayva -- an invented proprietary trade name, and the Gaelic language doesn't use the letters 'y' or 'v'.
DELETE Drambuie -- an invented proprietary name, and the "dram" part is of Latin and Greek origin.
DELETE Glengarry bonnet -- Glengarry is already covered by glen and otherwise is a placename. Bonnet is from Old French, from Middle Latin.
DELETE Pet, Bunny -- originally Scots and Northern England dialect, of unknown origin. Probably not of Gaelic origin.
DELETE Brat -- Word appeared in late Old English as bratt meaning cloak, but a derivation of that from Gaelic is not well established, and furthermore the connection between bratt meaning cloak and the modern meaning of brat is not well established either (e.g., the
OED says modern brat is perhaps from Old French brachet ‘hound, bitch’).
DELETE OR ELSE ELABORATE ON THE ORIGIN OF: Bard. In short, the English bard primarily comes from popular ancient Latin writings that use bardus = poet. Bard is an ancient Celtic word. Welsh bardd and Breton barz mean 'poet-singer'. Scottish Gaelic bard entered Scottish English in mid-15th century with the meaning of 'vagabond minstrel'. However the modern literary meaning of bard is 17th century and is derived from -- or at least strongly influenced by -- the ancient Greek bardos and Latin bardus (e.g. used by the poet
Lucan, 1st century AD), which in turn come from the
Gaulish language. The word bard appears in modern French, Spanish, Italian, German and other European languages and I believe this widespreadness is due to its presence in the Greek and Latin, not English.
DELETE OR ELSE MOVE TO THE SCOTS SECTION: Jessie, Slughorn -- not words in dictionary.
MOVE TO THE SCOTS SECTION: Airt, bothy, caird, caber, clachan, Doch-an-doris, Gillie, Inch, Kyle, Mod, Oe, Och, Quaich, Skean, Ingle
Ingle: "Whan I feel ma Muse beginnin tae jaud, I retire tae the solitar ingle-side o ma study, an there pit ma effuisions doun on paper". --
sco:Robert Burns, comedian
Seanwal111111 (
talk)
20:39, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
My bad, I didn't clock the identity of the SMO site due to its ancient, ropey appearance. In fact it's probably a more pertinent ref than the Beeb one as it regards Scottish, rather than Irish origins. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 01:11, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
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I am going to remove "smashing" from this list as it is clearly an urban legend. This has been discussed at length on Wiktionary ( [1]), so see what has been written there - and don't forget to check the talk page. As long as not a single serious linguist can be found who believes this, we should not be repeating it. -- Doric Loon ( talk) 21:09, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
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I assume that "cross" refers to the meaning "angry", since "cross" as in "X" comes by way of French, n'est-ce pas? Or did the Anglo-Saxons get it from the Celtic Christians when they came to England, and if so, wouldn't it be borrowed from a Brythonic language? It would be nice if this were cleared up.
the English word "cross" was definitely infulenced by the Irish monks. Had it not been, the English word would have been probably similar to "crutch". Personally, I think this list (as well as the article List_of_English_words_of_Irish_origin) should be subsumed under a title such as List_of_English_words_of_Celtic_origin...
It would be good if a distinction between words that originate from Irish and from Scottish could be made, rather than assuming a simultaneous adoption. For example, I'm not aware that the leprechaun makes an appearance in Scottish legends or stories. griff 18:04, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"Crack" is actually of English origins, borrowed by Gaelic; the Gaelic spelling "craic" began to be used in English less than 20 years ago. See the Wickipedia pages on "crack"/"craic", especially the Discussion page.
I'm just an American, but shouldn't the word "glamour" (spelled "glamor" over here) be included on the list of English words of Scottish Gaelic origin?
Sorry to ask, but the article is about "scottish gaelic" words: Banshee is an irish gaelic word. Bean Nighe is the scottish form, is it not? -- 81.178.67.184 15:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Seems to me that plaid in English must mention plaid in Ghaidlig which means blanket. The kilt used to be a blanket with about 12 square yards of cloth. One laid it down on the ground, and folded it over oneself, tying it with a pin. Seems to me that this is a much more logical origin than what is now in the entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrmckinney ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Not only are some of the listed words dubious as regards to who borrowed from whom, not only are some of them ones that are cognates who share a common root, but aren't the root of each other, BUT some of them could have come from Gaelic, could have come from Irish, could have come from Welsh, could have come from Gallovidian, could have come from Cumbric, could have come from Cornish, could have come from Manx etc...
Wouldn't it be better to have a list of words of Celtic origin, stating (if possible) which Celtic languages are candidate sources?
Also, there's a missing "via Scots" on many of the entries. "Benn", for example, was borrowed into Scots from Gaelic, from where it has been incorporated into English. (Although even then, it's hardly English) Prof Wrong ( talk) 18:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
This page is just getting more and more confusing.
Why is it that bog is a Gaelic word, but inch is possibly Irish, possibly Gaelic? Both terms are used on both sides of the Irish Sea. In fact, I've only noticed inch used in the northern parts of Ireland, where the Scots speaking settlers went, whereas there's bogs all over the island.
But then again, inch in Scots may even originate in Brythonic.
It just seems to me that this topic is too messy to address adequately on a site like this. Prof Wrong ( talk) 11:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Prof Wrong, Inch goes in English (certainly the form of it used in Lowland Scotland) from Scottish Gaelic, there are very early occurrences of it. As Scots is, for most academics around the world, clearly part of English, the artificial distinction between "Scots" and the bundled group of other varieties of English isn't important for an article like this. Given the topic is "Scottish Gaelic", then coming into English usage in Scotland first would be natural and expected. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 14:46, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
Maybe they could, we're not dealing with that issue here. The two main issues when dealing with Scots are the more or less universally accepted criterium of mutual intellegibility (whether one likes the outcome or not from a sociopolitical POV) and the issue of language shift/merger and I think you're kinda ignoring the second one. Most Scandinavian languages were moving massively towards adopting Danish features during the period of strong Danish influence - does that mean because Icelandic/Faroese/Norwegian were becoming more and more intelligible to a Dane, that at the stage before they started doing that they weren't seperate languages? Akerbeltz ( talk) 08:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
At the bottom of Wikipedia's
List of Arabic loanwords in English you can find links to five whole books devoted to the etymology of English words. The books are freely downloadable. On the basis of what's in those books, I made the following notes about the current Scottish Gaelic origins page, and I'll soon be making the following changes:
DELETE Dig, Twig, Tinker -- Old English words of ultimate Germanic orign.
DELETE Glayva -- an invented proprietary trade name, and the Gaelic language doesn't use the letters 'y' or 'v'.
DELETE Drambuie -- an invented proprietary name, and the "dram" part is of Latin and Greek origin.
DELETE Glengarry bonnet -- Glengarry is already covered by glen and otherwise is a placename. Bonnet is from Old French, from Middle Latin.
DELETE Pet, Bunny -- originally Scots and Northern England dialect, of unknown origin. Probably not of Gaelic origin.
DELETE Brat -- Word appeared in late Old English as bratt meaning cloak, but a derivation of that from Gaelic is not well established, and furthermore the connection between bratt meaning cloak and the modern meaning of brat is not well established either (e.g., the
OED says modern brat is perhaps from Old French brachet ‘hound, bitch’).
DELETE OR ELSE ELABORATE ON THE ORIGIN OF: Bard. In short, the English bard primarily comes from popular ancient Latin writings that use bardus = poet. Bard is an ancient Celtic word. Welsh bardd and Breton barz mean 'poet-singer'. Scottish Gaelic bard entered Scottish English in mid-15th century with the meaning of 'vagabond minstrel'. However the modern literary meaning of bard is 17th century and is derived from -- or at least strongly influenced by -- the ancient Greek bardos and Latin bardus (e.g. used by the poet
Lucan, 1st century AD), which in turn come from the
Gaulish language. The word bard appears in modern French, Spanish, Italian, German and other European languages and I believe this widespreadness is due to its presence in the Greek and Latin, not English.
DELETE OR ELSE MOVE TO THE SCOTS SECTION: Jessie, Slughorn -- not words in dictionary.
MOVE TO THE SCOTS SECTION: Airt, bothy, caird, caber, clachan, Doch-an-doris, Gillie, Inch, Kyle, Mod, Oe, Och, Quaich, Skean, Ingle
Ingle: "Whan I feel ma Muse beginnin tae jaud, I retire tae the solitar ingle-side o ma study, an there pit ma effuisions doun on paper". --
sco:Robert Burns, comedian
Seanwal111111 (
talk)
20:39, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
My bad, I didn't clock the identity of the SMO site due to its ancient, ropey appearance. In fact it's probably a more pertinent ref than the Beeb one as it regards Scottish, rather than Irish origins. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 01:11, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of English words of Scottish Gaelic origin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I am going to remove "smashing" from this list as it is clearly an urban legend. This has been discussed at length on Wiktionary ( [1]), so see what has been written there - and don't forget to check the talk page. As long as not a single serious linguist can be found who believes this, we should not be repeating it. -- Doric Loon ( talk) 21:09, 18 February 2020 (UTC)