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Umm, person at IP 68.113.208.230, why did you remove the perfectly valid information? -- Emperorbma 05:14, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I redid naming according to this: http://www.tokyopop.com/dbpage.php?propertycode=CHB&categorycode=BMG&page=characterinfo WhisperToMe 03:02, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Where in either the Anime or Manga does it say Freya was the first persocom? Something about that seems logically flawed... why give her a program to give all persocoms emotions if she's the first persocom ever created? It would take years, even decades for normal persocoms to proliferate in the meantime, making such a program virtually useless. They never say how long Freya stayed activated, but it couldn't have been more than a few years, and if Freya was the first Persocom ever, there couldn't have been more than a few hundred thousand persocoms at the most, which kind of defeats the whole purpose.
Also, assuming that everything passed normally, and Freya didn't fall in love with her father, she most likely would have found the person just for her long before there was a large amount of persocoms in the world. Hell, it only took Chii a few months to go from a totally blank slate to falling in love with Hideki.
It just doesn't make sense. Plus, I remember the Anime like the back of my hand, and nothing is mentioned about Freya being the first persocom. The Manga might be different, however. I don't know, I haven't gotten around to reading it. PiccoloNamek July 5, 2005 23:00 (UTC)
Freya isn't the first persocom as far as I know, but her father/creator made the first. ---Isuzu, October 8, 2005
freya was only the first of the chobits series of persocoms -- Ditre 07:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
"Chi (ちぃ Chii) is a persocom and a Chobit (a super persocom that possesses free will and genuine feelings and emotions)" It clearly states in the final volume of the manga *stop reading now if you haven't read it* that the Chobits do not have emotions. I personally didn't understand the ending too well, but I do know that Freya/Dark Chii says this herself. ---Isuzu, October 8, 2005
That doesn't make any sense. Perhaps you mis-read it. If the Chobits do not have emotions, then how was Chii able to fall in love with Hideki? Why was Freya so sad that she gave up her will to live? Perhaps the manga is different from the anime, but I don't think it's quite that different. In the anime, Chii says things like "When I thought you were ill, my heart was hurting like it was twisted.", and at the end she says "I am happy!". Ms. Hibiya herself states that they were designed so that they would be able to fall in love.
It's hard to look at Chii, smiling and laughing and being happy together with Hideki as not really having emotions at all. Something isn't right here. I haven't completely read the ending of the manga myself, but I do know that there is one scene where Freya takes over Chii's body and starts asking Hideki all sorts of odd questions. Is this when she said it? Perhaps you misinterpreted something. Saying the Chobits do not posess emotions goes against the plain sense of both the manga and the anime. There is also one scene near the end where Chii and Hideki are together and Chii says to Hideki with the most awesome smile on her face, " My 'Someone Just for Me'. At the end of the anime, Chii is literally crying, because the pain of being separated from Hideki is so intense. If that's a person with no emotions, then I just don't know what to say.
Anyway, I'm going to ask my friend Talon, who knows everything about everything about Chobits, what he thinks. Also, you should sign your name properly by using ~~~~ at the end of your statements. PiccoloNamek 15:32, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
And... I asked him, and he says you are wrong. Very Wrong. As he is someone who has read the manga in its entirety, and also someone that I have a great deal of respect for, and until you can prove he and I wrong, I will leave the article the way it is.
"Short answer: He's wrong, but it's his opinion, but he's wrong.
Answer for Namek: It's wrong, bar me getting my hands on the original Japanese books and finding out that a translator at Tokyopop-USA had an agenda he was acting on.
Granted, this kid could argue the difference between a robot's "fake"/"pre-programmed" emotions and ours, but personally, I would say that given robots as real as Chobits, their emotions are EQUAL in "fakeness"/"realness" to ours. He needs to quit kidding himself and get over the fact that humans themselves are nothing more than remarkable machines. And that part of our hard-wiring includes what we psychologically label as emotions.
But for Christ's sake, Freya shows pleasure with Hideki's decision. Zima flirts with Dita all the time. Chii hugs herself in episode 20 (Book 4) and whispers, "Hideki," lovingly holding herself even tighter. (If this does not suggest ROMANTIC INTEREST, and if romance does not equate EMOTION-RELATING, then I give up.)
I still disagree. This is a semantic game centered around what constitutes "real emotions". This all depends on what your definition of what "real emotions" are. A Chobit's emotions might be defined by, caused by a program, but does that make the feelings themselves any less real? When Freya lay there in bed, dying, wishing to die, ("I wanted to stop.") was it because the pain she felt wasn't "real"? I could just as easily say human emotions aren't real, because after all, they're only neurotransmitters affecting the electrical activity of neurons, nothing more. They don't come from a soul, or from some other mystical, undefined source. I think that what we must ask ourselves is "Is the actual experience of the feeling itself "real" from the Chobit's point of view?"
And conerning neurotransmitters, perhaps a Chobit's emotional programming could be considered as "digital neurotransmitters" of a sort; that is: the execution of the program or program subset causes a change in the state of their CPU's functioning that they precieve to be an emotion. Of course this is pure speculation, but if that was the case, how could their emotions be any less real than ours?
Perhaps Hideki's love for Chi is nothing more than his pituitary gland pumping out oxytocin! The primitive part of his brain can't distinguish between a persocon and a human... to it, Chi is just a very pretty - and very desireable - human, and the programming given to him by the forces of evolution is causing him to feel this way. So much for real emotions.
As for sentience: A Chobit is clearly self-aware. The evidence to support this is overwhelming, and I fail to see how one could possibly disagree. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that the Chobits are philosophical zombies of a sort; that they have no real conscious experience; that they have no qualia; they they see nothing, hear nothing, feel nothing, physically or emotionally; that they are only pretending, and it is all nothing more than a grand illusion. This is clearly wrong and goes against the plain sense of the series.
What I think they're saying basically is not that a Chobit cannot experience emotion, but rather, that those emotions are less real or somehow lack legitimacy because they are derived from their programming, rather than from... well, whatever Freya happens to think human emotions are derived from. PiccoloNamek 13:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
What is CLAMP thinking? In Japan, I believe that many people still believe in the concept of a "soul", something separate from the functioning of your brain that makes you you; that makes you alive, or perhaps, being alive gives you a soul. I won't even get into the definition of what "alive" truly is; that's a whole other can of worms. I think that the people at CLAMP believe that a machine can't have a soul, or at the very least, no persocom is advanced enough to harbour a soul. (Ghost?) I suppose they also think that because humans have a soul, that their emotions and consciousness are more real or legitimate than a persocoms, assuming that a persocom has a consciousness at all.
Clearly, the girls at CLAMP have at best a very poor understanding of the human brain's functioning, what the nature of human emotion is, how it comes to be, what causes it, et cetra, and that, possibly combined with a backward view concerning the existence of souls, has led us to this quandary.
Unfortunately, Wikipedia is no place for my personal views concerning consciousness or souls, and I fear I must edit the article. I'll get around to it some time today. This is actually quite depressing for me, because, taking her words at face value, a lot of what I hold very dear about this series has just been thrown out the window. If they truly don't experience any emotions at all, if they aren't sentient, even in the slightest, then what was the point of it all? Of any of it? They shouldn't have bothered to write the story at all, because the Chobits are little more than normal persocoms with super-fast processors. PiccoloNamek 18:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't think what Freya said could possibly be made more clear or explicit. You said "After all, her [Chi's] desire is to be happy, and she fufills that desire." But Freya said that they don't really have emotions, and in fact are not sentient at all, so taking what Freya said literally, and not figuratively, Chi finding the Person just for Her was nothing more than a machine following it's programming, just like any random store-bought persocom. What makes a human human? The "program" contained within our DNA. Why do we have emotions? Because certain evolutionary pressures caused the functioning of our brains to be so. I suppose there's nothing "wrong" per se with believing in a soul, other than there's no proof whatsoever. Personally, my view of the "soul" is similar to the concept of a "Ghost" from Ghost in the Shell.
I thought perhaps that the Chobits had ghosts as well, but now, perhaps not. PiccoloNamek 03:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps Freya's response was skewed by any combination of perspective, language, and/or programming? Explaining the abstract is always difficult, it seems that one must base one's explaination using some point of reference. Perhaps she was judging by human standards... I mean, Freya's response in reverse: They are not human, thus they aren't sentient, thus they cannot have emotion. Zima makes a similar statement, saying their happiness might not be the same happiness by human standards. Problem is... everything is judged by human standards, thus the only answer that can be given would have to be.. in human standards. Not only that, but Freya has ever been the pessimist, the doubter. And yet Freya later observes that Hideki is complex for he is not only simple, but profound. Perhaps Hideki, being the good man he is, has proven Freya wrong and thus all doubts are lifted and Freya can finally disappear.
On another tangent, in the Manga, am I correct in that the program inside Chi only has one effect; the destruction of all person-recognition abilities, in effect destroying memories of people, in effect eliminating all persocom relationshihps? Unlike in the Anime where the program has two, the alternate effect to upload Chobits-level emotions? Perhaps this needs to be reflected in both articles?
Following that tangent, Zima and Dita were not likely to have been built for close relationships in contrast with the way Chi/Elda and Freya were. In the manga no program was executed, and yet Zima and Dita still experience strong emotions with one another. Not to mention Zima's unrational feelings toward's Chi finding true happiness despite running counter to his programming.
I'm not really here to debate philosophy, of sentience, of emotion, of life, of truth, of everything... I guess I am the sentimental dreamer type, so personally I beleive the Persocom's love, especially Chi's love is true and real. And that just like one of the numerous themes found in the series, emotions and memories cannot be adequately expressed as words or data.
Let me just end by saying Freya's answer may not be the whole truth. Things like this, are rarely simple. -- Mark4011 05:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm quite sure, Sumomo and Kotoko aren't Laptops. Laptops and PC's have the same habilities in hard disk and processing, the only diference is the battery. On the other side, PDA's have more limitations than PC's and Laptops. In one scene (both on the anime and the manga) we learn of Sumomo's limitations:
Hideki - What is that? (looking at the downloaded image)
Sumomo - That is... AN ATTACHED IMAGE!!!!
Hideki - I already knew that!!!
Shimbo - You can't ask her such dificult questions, she is just a mobile unit!
Kotoko on the other side says she has the same habilities as a normal sized persocom, but that's because she is "unique". So in other words, Sumomo is like a Tungsten (or any other "normal" PDA) and Kotoko is a LifeDrive (maybe better, but still a PDA). Coven 36
They're called "Laptop persocoms". Most real laptops aren't as powerful as their PC counterparts, and they have very different CPU architectures. Do you think a Powerbook is even half as powerful as Quad CPU PowerMac G5? Then how could a little thing like Sumomo be as powerful as a full-size persocom. A bigger persocom simply has more space for advanced equipment, just like a real computer. Sumomo is equivalent to a "normal" laptop computer. Kotoko is a desktop-replacement laptop. Kotoko has much more memory than Sumomo and also has dual processors. Also, I believe what Shinbo actually said is that she can't answer abstract questions, probably because of a combination of limited CPU power and too-simple programming. (A more complex program capable of understanding such a question probably wouldn't run well on her system.) I would also imagine a simplified CPU architechture in and of itself limits a persocom's ability to "think", so to speak. The Chobits equiavalent of a PDA would be something like Yumi's handheld model, that only stores phone numbers and whatnot. PiccoloNamek 22:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Should I add a character spot for Atashi? What do you think? PiccoloNamek 21:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
CRAP. I accidentally violated the 3RR rule. Please forgive me administrators. I just know I am going to get blocked. Now, whoever this anonymous editor is needs to stop, now. This article entitled "Characters in Chobits", not "Characters in Tsubasa: RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE". This article concerns the stories and events concerning the characters in Chobits. Whatever happens to them in any Tsubasa: RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE crossover is completely irrelevant to what happens in Chobits, and has no business being on this page. Most of what is being added is already covered, at least in part, on the TRC page and if it isn't that's where it needs to go. Please STOP adding the inappropriate information to this article. PiccoloNamek 08:12, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
In the anime, does Freya still exist at the end? She gets deleted, but it seems like she reappears at the end when Chi returns.I've read comments that suggest that she dies (for real) at the end. In the manga, I'm not sure what happens. She survived the first memory wipe of Elda though, makes sense that she appears at the end again of epsiode 26.
So, in my opinion: Anime = alive, Manga = dead. Although, at least as far as the manga is concerned, they were never even truly conscious to begin with. PiccoloNamek 20:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
PiccoloNamek 19:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, I've seen the last episode of the anime, and Freya is still definitely "alive". She appears again after the "delete" afterall.
I don't know. In the last episode of the anime Freya is shown seperating from Elda's body. So Freya might have died.
"Elda's memories were on the disc which was accidentally left in the garbage when Hideki salvaged her."
What is the source of that? I couldn't find it in the manga...
I see a number of grammar problems in this article.
Much like many young men, Hideki is also has an active libido, possessing a very large number of pornographic magazines, which he refers to as "okazu" which means "side dish".
She is programmed to be cute and tends to be quite hyperactive, for example her morning 'wakie wakie exercises'.
The phrase "Because of this" is used a lot. Commas are everywhere. I think this article needs a lot of cleaning up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nanobot ( talk • contribs) 07:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
When I first came across Chobits, I was disgusted by its Lolita Complex themes. Chi has the body of a thirteen-year-old, as first annoyed Hideki. However, as the series progresses, that fact doesn't seem to matter as the sexuality continues to rise. I was surprised none of this matter was mentioned at all in the article. Chi is described as being a young woman, not a young girl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akari Mizunashi ( talk • contribs) 23:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
What? Lolicon themes? I never noticed any such thing. Chii is clearly designed to look like teenage girl, (according to Minoru, around 15-16 years old). I severely doubt that CLAMP intended for Chii to be viewed in that way, and there is no reason to add that kind of blatant speculation to the article. PiccoloNamek 01:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Instead of removing the images again straight away, let's fully discuss the issue here. I feel that the images used in this article should not be removed. Under WP:NFC#8, Non-free content is used only if...its omission would be detrimental to that understanding. Non-free media files are not used if they can be replaced by text that serves a similar function. I personally feel that the removal of these images would be detrimental to this article. Unless a thorough physical description for each character is written (which would still need to be sourced), there is no reason for the images to be removed if it takes away from the quality of the article. WP:NFC#Unacceptable images does not apply in this situation because: The use of non-free media in lists, galleries, discographies, and navigational and user-interface elements usually fails the test for significance (criterion #8), and if it fails this test such use is unacceptable. These images are therefore unacceptable only if they fail WP:NFC#8, which does not appear to be the case. MelicansMatkin 21:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
It has been established? Where in the rules does it say that? Who established it? You? I refuted your statement concerning this supposed establishment and all you have to offer in return is a curt statement with no substance or proper argument. The NFC article clearly states: the use of non-free media in lists usually fails the test for significance for criterion #8.. The keyword here is usually. "Is not allowed" is nothing more than a fabrication you created in order to justify and facilitate your mass-removal of legitimate and much-needed images from articles.
As for notability. Notability has nothing to do with this case. Notable or not, the quality of the article and the understanding of the characters are greatly harmed by the removal of the images, and there is no suitable text substitute, thereby satisfying criterion #8. It is interesting that you conveniently ignored this argument.
If you can't provide a rational and well-reasoned argument as to why these kinds of articles literally can't (as opposed to "usually can't") have images, we'll all know you don't have a leg to stand on. (For the record, well-reasoned arguments do not include "NFC says so." and "YOU WILL BE BLOCKED." Just so you know.) It is your job to explain why this article literally cannot contain images. Unless you can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that articles like this one can never contain images, I will fight you with everything I've got, until the last of my energy is spent. (Of course, being a reasonable person, if such proof could be provided, that would be good enough for me.) PiccoloNamek 02:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. That was all I wanted. If you had just done that in the first place, I wouldn't have even become upset. Was it that hard? I still disagree, and I still think you're up to no good, but rules are rules, and I have no trouble following them. (For the record, I had nothing to do with reverting the article. ;) ) PiccoloNamek 13:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Then explain how we're supposed to get "free" images for ANY kind of movie or Anime series. It's not something we can go out and photograph ourselves; the content is always copyrighted. 24.136.34.80 22:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I really think we should be able to expand a lot more of these characters into full length articles as opposed to just having a long list. I see that Chi has her own article, but I think at least other major characters like Hideki should also have their own seperate pages. -- 3loodlust ( talk) 22:28, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Apparently, you didn't comprehend what I wrote. There is very little out-of-universe information available for use in such articles. Creating an entire article that consists entirely in-universe story information is discouraged and usually results in multiple notices being placed on the top of said pages. You should read this: WP:WAF. Especially section 2.2 "Secondary information". There isn't a whole lot of useful secondary information available to use for creating a legitimate character page. We don't even have any on Chi's page! Individual pages for the other characters would consist mostly of cruft, speculation, original research, and story information, most of which is already properly summarized in the list article. PiccoloNamek ( talk) 22:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Anyone have any idea why the characters are ordered as they are? I ask because I'm particularly startled that Chi isn't first or second, based on being one of the two protagonists, and I'm not seeing any relevant sorting in action. — Quasirandom ( talk) 17:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
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Umm, person at IP 68.113.208.230, why did you remove the perfectly valid information? -- Emperorbma 05:14, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I redid naming according to this: http://www.tokyopop.com/dbpage.php?propertycode=CHB&categorycode=BMG&page=characterinfo WhisperToMe 03:02, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Where in either the Anime or Manga does it say Freya was the first persocom? Something about that seems logically flawed... why give her a program to give all persocoms emotions if she's the first persocom ever created? It would take years, even decades for normal persocoms to proliferate in the meantime, making such a program virtually useless. They never say how long Freya stayed activated, but it couldn't have been more than a few years, and if Freya was the first Persocom ever, there couldn't have been more than a few hundred thousand persocoms at the most, which kind of defeats the whole purpose.
Also, assuming that everything passed normally, and Freya didn't fall in love with her father, she most likely would have found the person just for her long before there was a large amount of persocoms in the world. Hell, it only took Chii a few months to go from a totally blank slate to falling in love with Hideki.
It just doesn't make sense. Plus, I remember the Anime like the back of my hand, and nothing is mentioned about Freya being the first persocom. The Manga might be different, however. I don't know, I haven't gotten around to reading it. PiccoloNamek July 5, 2005 23:00 (UTC)
Freya isn't the first persocom as far as I know, but her father/creator made the first. ---Isuzu, October 8, 2005
freya was only the first of the chobits series of persocoms -- Ditre 07:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
"Chi (ちぃ Chii) is a persocom and a Chobit (a super persocom that possesses free will and genuine feelings and emotions)" It clearly states in the final volume of the manga *stop reading now if you haven't read it* that the Chobits do not have emotions. I personally didn't understand the ending too well, but I do know that Freya/Dark Chii says this herself. ---Isuzu, October 8, 2005
That doesn't make any sense. Perhaps you mis-read it. If the Chobits do not have emotions, then how was Chii able to fall in love with Hideki? Why was Freya so sad that she gave up her will to live? Perhaps the manga is different from the anime, but I don't think it's quite that different. In the anime, Chii says things like "When I thought you were ill, my heart was hurting like it was twisted.", and at the end she says "I am happy!". Ms. Hibiya herself states that they were designed so that they would be able to fall in love.
It's hard to look at Chii, smiling and laughing and being happy together with Hideki as not really having emotions at all. Something isn't right here. I haven't completely read the ending of the manga myself, but I do know that there is one scene where Freya takes over Chii's body and starts asking Hideki all sorts of odd questions. Is this when she said it? Perhaps you misinterpreted something. Saying the Chobits do not posess emotions goes against the plain sense of both the manga and the anime. There is also one scene near the end where Chii and Hideki are together and Chii says to Hideki with the most awesome smile on her face, " My 'Someone Just for Me'. At the end of the anime, Chii is literally crying, because the pain of being separated from Hideki is so intense. If that's a person with no emotions, then I just don't know what to say.
Anyway, I'm going to ask my friend Talon, who knows everything about everything about Chobits, what he thinks. Also, you should sign your name properly by using ~~~~ at the end of your statements. PiccoloNamek 15:32, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
And... I asked him, and he says you are wrong. Very Wrong. As he is someone who has read the manga in its entirety, and also someone that I have a great deal of respect for, and until you can prove he and I wrong, I will leave the article the way it is.
"Short answer: He's wrong, but it's his opinion, but he's wrong.
Answer for Namek: It's wrong, bar me getting my hands on the original Japanese books and finding out that a translator at Tokyopop-USA had an agenda he was acting on.
Granted, this kid could argue the difference between a robot's "fake"/"pre-programmed" emotions and ours, but personally, I would say that given robots as real as Chobits, their emotions are EQUAL in "fakeness"/"realness" to ours. He needs to quit kidding himself and get over the fact that humans themselves are nothing more than remarkable machines. And that part of our hard-wiring includes what we psychologically label as emotions.
But for Christ's sake, Freya shows pleasure with Hideki's decision. Zima flirts with Dita all the time. Chii hugs herself in episode 20 (Book 4) and whispers, "Hideki," lovingly holding herself even tighter. (If this does not suggest ROMANTIC INTEREST, and if romance does not equate EMOTION-RELATING, then I give up.)
I still disagree. This is a semantic game centered around what constitutes "real emotions". This all depends on what your definition of what "real emotions" are. A Chobit's emotions might be defined by, caused by a program, but does that make the feelings themselves any less real? When Freya lay there in bed, dying, wishing to die, ("I wanted to stop.") was it because the pain she felt wasn't "real"? I could just as easily say human emotions aren't real, because after all, they're only neurotransmitters affecting the electrical activity of neurons, nothing more. They don't come from a soul, or from some other mystical, undefined source. I think that what we must ask ourselves is "Is the actual experience of the feeling itself "real" from the Chobit's point of view?"
And conerning neurotransmitters, perhaps a Chobit's emotional programming could be considered as "digital neurotransmitters" of a sort; that is: the execution of the program or program subset causes a change in the state of their CPU's functioning that they precieve to be an emotion. Of course this is pure speculation, but if that was the case, how could their emotions be any less real than ours?
Perhaps Hideki's love for Chi is nothing more than his pituitary gland pumping out oxytocin! The primitive part of his brain can't distinguish between a persocon and a human... to it, Chi is just a very pretty - and very desireable - human, and the programming given to him by the forces of evolution is causing him to feel this way. So much for real emotions.
As for sentience: A Chobit is clearly self-aware. The evidence to support this is overwhelming, and I fail to see how one could possibly disagree. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that the Chobits are philosophical zombies of a sort; that they have no real conscious experience; that they have no qualia; they they see nothing, hear nothing, feel nothing, physically or emotionally; that they are only pretending, and it is all nothing more than a grand illusion. This is clearly wrong and goes against the plain sense of the series.
What I think they're saying basically is not that a Chobit cannot experience emotion, but rather, that those emotions are less real or somehow lack legitimacy because they are derived from their programming, rather than from... well, whatever Freya happens to think human emotions are derived from. PiccoloNamek 13:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
What is CLAMP thinking? In Japan, I believe that many people still believe in the concept of a "soul", something separate from the functioning of your brain that makes you you; that makes you alive, or perhaps, being alive gives you a soul. I won't even get into the definition of what "alive" truly is; that's a whole other can of worms. I think that the people at CLAMP believe that a machine can't have a soul, or at the very least, no persocom is advanced enough to harbour a soul. (Ghost?) I suppose they also think that because humans have a soul, that their emotions and consciousness are more real or legitimate than a persocoms, assuming that a persocom has a consciousness at all.
Clearly, the girls at CLAMP have at best a very poor understanding of the human brain's functioning, what the nature of human emotion is, how it comes to be, what causes it, et cetra, and that, possibly combined with a backward view concerning the existence of souls, has led us to this quandary.
Unfortunately, Wikipedia is no place for my personal views concerning consciousness or souls, and I fear I must edit the article. I'll get around to it some time today. This is actually quite depressing for me, because, taking her words at face value, a lot of what I hold very dear about this series has just been thrown out the window. If they truly don't experience any emotions at all, if they aren't sentient, even in the slightest, then what was the point of it all? Of any of it? They shouldn't have bothered to write the story at all, because the Chobits are little more than normal persocoms with super-fast processors. PiccoloNamek 18:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't think what Freya said could possibly be made more clear or explicit. You said "After all, her [Chi's] desire is to be happy, and she fufills that desire." But Freya said that they don't really have emotions, and in fact are not sentient at all, so taking what Freya said literally, and not figuratively, Chi finding the Person just for Her was nothing more than a machine following it's programming, just like any random store-bought persocom. What makes a human human? The "program" contained within our DNA. Why do we have emotions? Because certain evolutionary pressures caused the functioning of our brains to be so. I suppose there's nothing "wrong" per se with believing in a soul, other than there's no proof whatsoever. Personally, my view of the "soul" is similar to the concept of a "Ghost" from Ghost in the Shell.
I thought perhaps that the Chobits had ghosts as well, but now, perhaps not. PiccoloNamek 03:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps Freya's response was skewed by any combination of perspective, language, and/or programming? Explaining the abstract is always difficult, it seems that one must base one's explaination using some point of reference. Perhaps she was judging by human standards... I mean, Freya's response in reverse: They are not human, thus they aren't sentient, thus they cannot have emotion. Zima makes a similar statement, saying their happiness might not be the same happiness by human standards. Problem is... everything is judged by human standards, thus the only answer that can be given would have to be.. in human standards. Not only that, but Freya has ever been the pessimist, the doubter. And yet Freya later observes that Hideki is complex for he is not only simple, but profound. Perhaps Hideki, being the good man he is, has proven Freya wrong and thus all doubts are lifted and Freya can finally disappear.
On another tangent, in the Manga, am I correct in that the program inside Chi only has one effect; the destruction of all person-recognition abilities, in effect destroying memories of people, in effect eliminating all persocom relationshihps? Unlike in the Anime where the program has two, the alternate effect to upload Chobits-level emotions? Perhaps this needs to be reflected in both articles?
Following that tangent, Zima and Dita were not likely to have been built for close relationships in contrast with the way Chi/Elda and Freya were. In the manga no program was executed, and yet Zima and Dita still experience strong emotions with one another. Not to mention Zima's unrational feelings toward's Chi finding true happiness despite running counter to his programming.
I'm not really here to debate philosophy, of sentience, of emotion, of life, of truth, of everything... I guess I am the sentimental dreamer type, so personally I beleive the Persocom's love, especially Chi's love is true and real. And that just like one of the numerous themes found in the series, emotions and memories cannot be adequately expressed as words or data.
Let me just end by saying Freya's answer may not be the whole truth. Things like this, are rarely simple. -- Mark4011 05:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm quite sure, Sumomo and Kotoko aren't Laptops. Laptops and PC's have the same habilities in hard disk and processing, the only diference is the battery. On the other side, PDA's have more limitations than PC's and Laptops. In one scene (both on the anime and the manga) we learn of Sumomo's limitations:
Hideki - What is that? (looking at the downloaded image)
Sumomo - That is... AN ATTACHED IMAGE!!!!
Hideki - I already knew that!!!
Shimbo - You can't ask her such dificult questions, she is just a mobile unit!
Kotoko on the other side says she has the same habilities as a normal sized persocom, but that's because she is "unique". So in other words, Sumomo is like a Tungsten (or any other "normal" PDA) and Kotoko is a LifeDrive (maybe better, but still a PDA). Coven 36
They're called "Laptop persocoms". Most real laptops aren't as powerful as their PC counterparts, and they have very different CPU architectures. Do you think a Powerbook is even half as powerful as Quad CPU PowerMac G5? Then how could a little thing like Sumomo be as powerful as a full-size persocom. A bigger persocom simply has more space for advanced equipment, just like a real computer. Sumomo is equivalent to a "normal" laptop computer. Kotoko is a desktop-replacement laptop. Kotoko has much more memory than Sumomo and also has dual processors. Also, I believe what Shinbo actually said is that she can't answer abstract questions, probably because of a combination of limited CPU power and too-simple programming. (A more complex program capable of understanding such a question probably wouldn't run well on her system.) I would also imagine a simplified CPU architechture in and of itself limits a persocom's ability to "think", so to speak. The Chobits equiavalent of a PDA would be something like Yumi's handheld model, that only stores phone numbers and whatnot. PiccoloNamek 22:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Should I add a character spot for Atashi? What do you think? PiccoloNamek 21:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
CRAP. I accidentally violated the 3RR rule. Please forgive me administrators. I just know I am going to get blocked. Now, whoever this anonymous editor is needs to stop, now. This article entitled "Characters in Chobits", not "Characters in Tsubasa: RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE". This article concerns the stories and events concerning the characters in Chobits. Whatever happens to them in any Tsubasa: RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE crossover is completely irrelevant to what happens in Chobits, and has no business being on this page. Most of what is being added is already covered, at least in part, on the TRC page and if it isn't that's where it needs to go. Please STOP adding the inappropriate information to this article. PiccoloNamek 08:12, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
In the anime, does Freya still exist at the end? She gets deleted, but it seems like she reappears at the end when Chi returns.I've read comments that suggest that she dies (for real) at the end. In the manga, I'm not sure what happens. She survived the first memory wipe of Elda though, makes sense that she appears at the end again of epsiode 26.
So, in my opinion: Anime = alive, Manga = dead. Although, at least as far as the manga is concerned, they were never even truly conscious to begin with. PiccoloNamek 20:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
PiccoloNamek 19:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, I've seen the last episode of the anime, and Freya is still definitely "alive". She appears again after the "delete" afterall.
I don't know. In the last episode of the anime Freya is shown seperating from Elda's body. So Freya might have died.
"Elda's memories were on the disc which was accidentally left in the garbage when Hideki salvaged her."
What is the source of that? I couldn't find it in the manga...
I see a number of grammar problems in this article.
Much like many young men, Hideki is also has an active libido, possessing a very large number of pornographic magazines, which he refers to as "okazu" which means "side dish".
She is programmed to be cute and tends to be quite hyperactive, for example her morning 'wakie wakie exercises'.
The phrase "Because of this" is used a lot. Commas are everywhere. I think this article needs a lot of cleaning up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nanobot ( talk • contribs) 07:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
When I first came across Chobits, I was disgusted by its Lolita Complex themes. Chi has the body of a thirteen-year-old, as first annoyed Hideki. However, as the series progresses, that fact doesn't seem to matter as the sexuality continues to rise. I was surprised none of this matter was mentioned at all in the article. Chi is described as being a young woman, not a young girl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akari Mizunashi ( talk • contribs) 23:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
What? Lolicon themes? I never noticed any such thing. Chii is clearly designed to look like teenage girl, (according to Minoru, around 15-16 years old). I severely doubt that CLAMP intended for Chii to be viewed in that way, and there is no reason to add that kind of blatant speculation to the article. PiccoloNamek 01:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Instead of removing the images again straight away, let's fully discuss the issue here. I feel that the images used in this article should not be removed. Under WP:NFC#8, Non-free content is used only if...its omission would be detrimental to that understanding. Non-free media files are not used if they can be replaced by text that serves a similar function. I personally feel that the removal of these images would be detrimental to this article. Unless a thorough physical description for each character is written (which would still need to be sourced), there is no reason for the images to be removed if it takes away from the quality of the article. WP:NFC#Unacceptable images does not apply in this situation because: The use of non-free media in lists, galleries, discographies, and navigational and user-interface elements usually fails the test for significance (criterion #8), and if it fails this test such use is unacceptable. These images are therefore unacceptable only if they fail WP:NFC#8, which does not appear to be the case. MelicansMatkin 21:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
It has been established? Where in the rules does it say that? Who established it? You? I refuted your statement concerning this supposed establishment and all you have to offer in return is a curt statement with no substance or proper argument. The NFC article clearly states: the use of non-free media in lists usually fails the test for significance for criterion #8.. The keyword here is usually. "Is not allowed" is nothing more than a fabrication you created in order to justify and facilitate your mass-removal of legitimate and much-needed images from articles.
As for notability. Notability has nothing to do with this case. Notable or not, the quality of the article and the understanding of the characters are greatly harmed by the removal of the images, and there is no suitable text substitute, thereby satisfying criterion #8. It is interesting that you conveniently ignored this argument.
If you can't provide a rational and well-reasoned argument as to why these kinds of articles literally can't (as opposed to "usually can't") have images, we'll all know you don't have a leg to stand on. (For the record, well-reasoned arguments do not include "NFC says so." and "YOU WILL BE BLOCKED." Just so you know.) It is your job to explain why this article literally cannot contain images. Unless you can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that articles like this one can never contain images, I will fight you with everything I've got, until the last of my energy is spent. (Of course, being a reasonable person, if such proof could be provided, that would be good enough for me.) PiccoloNamek 02:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. That was all I wanted. If you had just done that in the first place, I wouldn't have even become upset. Was it that hard? I still disagree, and I still think you're up to no good, but rules are rules, and I have no trouble following them. (For the record, I had nothing to do with reverting the article. ;) ) PiccoloNamek 13:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Then explain how we're supposed to get "free" images for ANY kind of movie or Anime series. It's not something we can go out and photograph ourselves; the content is always copyrighted. 24.136.34.80 22:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I really think we should be able to expand a lot more of these characters into full length articles as opposed to just having a long list. I see that Chi has her own article, but I think at least other major characters like Hideki should also have their own seperate pages. -- 3loodlust ( talk) 22:28, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Apparently, you didn't comprehend what I wrote. There is very little out-of-universe information available for use in such articles. Creating an entire article that consists entirely in-universe story information is discouraged and usually results in multiple notices being placed on the top of said pages. You should read this: WP:WAF. Especially section 2.2 "Secondary information". There isn't a whole lot of useful secondary information available to use for creating a legitimate character page. We don't even have any on Chi's page! Individual pages for the other characters would consist mostly of cruft, speculation, original research, and story information, most of which is already properly summarized in the list article. PiccoloNamek ( talk) 22:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Anyone have any idea why the characters are ordered as they are? I ask because I'm particularly startled that Chi isn't first or second, based on being one of the two protagonists, and I'm not seeing any relevant sorting in action. — Quasirandom ( talk) 17:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)