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Von Karman, who oversaw the investigation of Lippisch laboratory, writes about the impact of his work. The theory of the delta wing was already on people's mind, from the work that Robert Jones did at Langley, and von Karman himself did some supersonic wind tunnel studies on swept wings shortly before the end of the war. But it was controversial. When they found the experiments and interviewed famous aerodynamics people in Germany, it had a stunning impact, instantly confirmed Jones' ideas and ended the debate about swept wings.
Convair engineers Adolph Burstein and Bill Chana have both independently stated that they started with a 45-degree swept wing, and when wind tunnel experiments showed it was unstable, they began increasing the sweep angle and eventually filling it in to be a triangle wing. Burstein claims that Lippisch's work was "moral support" for those advocating the delta wing, but they disagreed with his thick-wing design.
So there is no doubt that Lippisch deserves the honors for being the first to apply delta wing design, and he was consulted by convair. What is incorrect in this article is the claim that the DM-1 glider itself influenced designs. Lippisch's theory was influential, but not the DM-1, which didn't behave well in Langley's supersonic wind tunnel. It was not an ancestral aircraft to the delta-wing fighters. DonPMitchell ( talk) 00:43, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
This aircraft is almost universally known as the Lippisch DM-1 (with hyphen). Sharp (Luftwaffe: Secret Jets of the Third Reich, Mortons, 2015, p.119.) quotes Lippisch as writing it "DM-1", which is significant as Sharp refers entirely to original sources and elsewhere Lippisch invariably used a dot, as in P.13a. Of course, NACA authors later used a variety of punctuations, as NACA authors always do. Thus, both historical correctness and our policy on WP:COMMONNAMES appear to agree that the article title should be Lippisch DM-1. Unless anybody comes up with strong evidence to the contrary, I shall get the move done. — Cheers, Steelpillow ( Talk) 12:53, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello All - On the matter of whether the DM-1 ever flew or not; it seems that it didn't. Past iterations of the Wikipedia page give differing views on this, with the Inbox giving a year for the first flight, even though the article's text states that it was "never flown". The view that it flew in 1944 may have arisen from a misreading of text within Luftwaffe: Secret Jets Of The Third Reich, where on page 116, there are these two snippets of text:
* "Lippisch carried out wind tunnel tests of a simplified P12/13a model, with both fin/ cockpit layouts, before successfully flight testing it in small fin form at Spitzerberg airfield near Vienna in May 1944."
* "Lippisch’s book Ein Dreieck Fliegt, published in 1976, the year of his death, outlines the development of the P12/13 up to the point of the Spitzerberg free flight tests and then sums up the project by saying: “Wind tunnel and free flight tests did not show any particularly difficult handling characteristics, so you probably could go ahead to build a flyable and manned model of this design.”"
Even though the DM-1 could be viewed as a scale model of the P.12/13a, it's not the same device as that flown at Spitzerberg and referred to in the Luftwaffe: Secret Jets Of The Third Reich publication. I've deleted out references to the first flight where apt, and amended the text at the start of the "Development" section, to clarify that the scale model which was successfully flown was related to the P.12/13a project, just so that it's not conflated with the DM-1 project. Cheers, Aerohydro ( talk) 08:12, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Von Karman, who oversaw the investigation of Lippisch laboratory, writes about the impact of his work. The theory of the delta wing was already on people's mind, from the work that Robert Jones did at Langley, and von Karman himself did some supersonic wind tunnel studies on swept wings shortly before the end of the war. But it was controversial. When they found the experiments and interviewed famous aerodynamics people in Germany, it had a stunning impact, instantly confirmed Jones' ideas and ended the debate about swept wings.
Convair engineers Adolph Burstein and Bill Chana have both independently stated that they started with a 45-degree swept wing, and when wind tunnel experiments showed it was unstable, they began increasing the sweep angle and eventually filling it in to be a triangle wing. Burstein claims that Lippisch's work was "moral support" for those advocating the delta wing, but they disagreed with his thick-wing design.
So there is no doubt that Lippisch deserves the honors for being the first to apply delta wing design, and he was consulted by convair. What is incorrect in this article is the claim that the DM-1 glider itself influenced designs. Lippisch's theory was influential, but not the DM-1, which didn't behave well in Langley's supersonic wind tunnel. It was not an ancestral aircraft to the delta-wing fighters. DonPMitchell ( talk) 00:43, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
This aircraft is almost universally known as the Lippisch DM-1 (with hyphen). Sharp (Luftwaffe: Secret Jets of the Third Reich, Mortons, 2015, p.119.) quotes Lippisch as writing it "DM-1", which is significant as Sharp refers entirely to original sources and elsewhere Lippisch invariably used a dot, as in P.13a. Of course, NACA authors later used a variety of punctuations, as NACA authors always do. Thus, both historical correctness and our policy on WP:COMMONNAMES appear to agree that the article title should be Lippisch DM-1. Unless anybody comes up with strong evidence to the contrary, I shall get the move done. — Cheers, Steelpillow ( Talk) 12:53, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello All - On the matter of whether the DM-1 ever flew or not; it seems that it didn't. Past iterations of the Wikipedia page give differing views on this, with the Inbox giving a year for the first flight, even though the article's text states that it was "never flown". The view that it flew in 1944 may have arisen from a misreading of text within Luftwaffe: Secret Jets Of The Third Reich, where on page 116, there are these two snippets of text:
* "Lippisch carried out wind tunnel tests of a simplified P12/13a model, with both fin/ cockpit layouts, before successfully flight testing it in small fin form at Spitzerberg airfield near Vienna in May 1944."
* "Lippisch’s book Ein Dreieck Fliegt, published in 1976, the year of his death, outlines the development of the P12/13 up to the point of the Spitzerberg free flight tests and then sums up the project by saying: “Wind tunnel and free flight tests did not show any particularly difficult handling characteristics, so you probably could go ahead to build a flyable and manned model of this design.”"
Even though the DM-1 could be viewed as a scale model of the P.12/13a, it's not the same device as that flown at Spitzerberg and referred to in the Luftwaffe: Secret Jets Of The Third Reich publication. I've deleted out references to the first flight where apt, and amended the text at the start of the "Development" section, to clarify that the scale model which was successfully flown was related to the P.12/13a project, just so that it's not conflated with the DM-1 project. Cheers, Aerohydro ( talk) 08:12, 26 June 2022 (UTC)