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The REVUE D'HISTOIRE DE L'AMÉRIQUE FRANÇAISE has a very interesting Web site: http://www.cam.org/~ihaf/rhaf.html
It is very good for understanding how scholarly this publication is, if you do not happen tp have the publication at hand.
However, URLs are so fickle that I would not want to place a link within the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.45.61 ( talk • contribs)
This article has been changed rather fundamentally several times with respect to Mr. Groulx and charges of antisemitism. However, it hasn't been discussed here on the talk page.
I dislike the rather one-sided and apologetic nature of the article as it presently stands. To paraphrase: you can't really call him an antisemite because he wasn't nearly as antisemitic as others -- and besides, everybody was a bigot back then -- so only misguided revisionists would accuse him of antisemitism. Besides, he was only antisemitic sometimes. At one point, the article was slanted the other way -- but it did actually cite sources back then. This is a step backward.
The article should name sources for assertions and fairly represent both sides of the debate. Cleduc 19:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this comment.
It was inter alia Groulx who was responsible for Canada's failure to accept Jewish refugees from the Holocaust. Canada, the second largest country in the world, accepted the least number of Jewish refugees fleeing certain death in Europe; for the sole reason that they were born Jews. (See: Abella and Troper's None is Too Many).
Quebec was, and is, saturated with antisemitism, it is indeed telling that he is so widely commemorated therein (A major Montreal subway is named after him, a University of Montreal building, and a mountain range, and many, many more.)
The tie-in to refugees from the Holocaust is an essential point missing from the article. It shows that antisemitism has consequences; and in this case, the mass-murder of an entire people.
-- Lance6968 20:17, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with Cleduc. There's no question that some discussion of the anti-Semitism issue is relevant and notable to Groulx's article, but I agree that it should be properly sourced and should represent both sides of the debate honestly. Bearcat 06:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I have re-instated previous contributor's contributions to this article. As is clear from the edit history of this article, there has been an effort to downplay, eliminate, or otherwise justify Groulx's antisemitism: i.e., his pathological hatred of Jews and Judaism.
Unfortunately, there has been an attempt to white-wash Groulx in French Canadian society rather than honestly dealing with its past; and this white-washing is further evidence, sadly, of how little has changed in French Quebec. -- Lance talk 21:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Groulx made many remarks - not just in his private correspondence, but also in his published articles, often under pseudonyms - that almost all of us today would characterise as antisemitic; they are part and parcel of that ideological strain ("respectable" before WWII). Some of those remarks belong here. Instead, what we have is simply a statement by Groulx himself denying he was antisemitic. This is intelectually dishonest. We do not, in general, accept an argument from somebody stating "I am not a racist" as the end to all discussion on whether he is, in fact, racist. Feketekave ( talk) 13:54, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Couldn't it be argued that part of Groulx's apparent antisemitism had a big part of anti-Zionism and anti-Masonry ? Much of the new research on anti-semitism makes that kind of distinction, on what has been termed the new antisemitism. If you take that into account, many of our contemporaries are much more anti-semitic than Groulx ever was. Also, many people in Groulx's time had always argued that they were not anti-semitic but that they were instead following the anti-Masonic teachings of the Vatican in the encyclical Humanum Genus (see Masonic conspiracy theories). ADM ( talk) 11:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Probably not; Groulx' attittudes towards Jews predated the state of Israel, and Zionism itself would not have been on his radar. He was against freemasonry, but that does not seem related to his attitudes to Jews one way or the other. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
192.30.202.15 (
talk)
17:09, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe someone could add JdeB; Groulx helped him escape from Europe after World War 2 - Jacques de Bernonville. Thanks 78.16.33.213 ( talk) 07:41, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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The REVUE D'HISTOIRE DE L'AMÉRIQUE FRANÇAISE has a very interesting Web site: http://www.cam.org/~ihaf/rhaf.html
It is very good for understanding how scholarly this publication is, if you do not happen tp have the publication at hand.
However, URLs are so fickle that I would not want to place a link within the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.45.61 ( talk • contribs)
This article has been changed rather fundamentally several times with respect to Mr. Groulx and charges of antisemitism. However, it hasn't been discussed here on the talk page.
I dislike the rather one-sided and apologetic nature of the article as it presently stands. To paraphrase: you can't really call him an antisemite because he wasn't nearly as antisemitic as others -- and besides, everybody was a bigot back then -- so only misguided revisionists would accuse him of antisemitism. Besides, he was only antisemitic sometimes. At one point, the article was slanted the other way -- but it did actually cite sources back then. This is a step backward.
The article should name sources for assertions and fairly represent both sides of the debate. Cleduc 19:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this comment.
It was inter alia Groulx who was responsible for Canada's failure to accept Jewish refugees from the Holocaust. Canada, the second largest country in the world, accepted the least number of Jewish refugees fleeing certain death in Europe; for the sole reason that they were born Jews. (See: Abella and Troper's None is Too Many).
Quebec was, and is, saturated with antisemitism, it is indeed telling that he is so widely commemorated therein (A major Montreal subway is named after him, a University of Montreal building, and a mountain range, and many, many more.)
The tie-in to refugees from the Holocaust is an essential point missing from the article. It shows that antisemitism has consequences; and in this case, the mass-murder of an entire people.
-- Lance6968 20:17, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with Cleduc. There's no question that some discussion of the anti-Semitism issue is relevant and notable to Groulx's article, but I agree that it should be properly sourced and should represent both sides of the debate honestly. Bearcat 06:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I have re-instated previous contributor's contributions to this article. As is clear from the edit history of this article, there has been an effort to downplay, eliminate, or otherwise justify Groulx's antisemitism: i.e., his pathological hatred of Jews and Judaism.
Unfortunately, there has been an attempt to white-wash Groulx in French Canadian society rather than honestly dealing with its past; and this white-washing is further evidence, sadly, of how little has changed in French Quebec. -- Lance talk 21:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Groulx made many remarks - not just in his private correspondence, but also in his published articles, often under pseudonyms - that almost all of us today would characterise as antisemitic; they are part and parcel of that ideological strain ("respectable" before WWII). Some of those remarks belong here. Instead, what we have is simply a statement by Groulx himself denying he was antisemitic. This is intelectually dishonest. We do not, in general, accept an argument from somebody stating "I am not a racist" as the end to all discussion on whether he is, in fact, racist. Feketekave ( talk) 13:54, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Couldn't it be argued that part of Groulx's apparent antisemitism had a big part of anti-Zionism and anti-Masonry ? Much of the new research on anti-semitism makes that kind of distinction, on what has been termed the new antisemitism. If you take that into account, many of our contemporaries are much more anti-semitic than Groulx ever was. Also, many people in Groulx's time had always argued that they were not anti-semitic but that they were instead following the anti-Masonic teachings of the Vatican in the encyclical Humanum Genus (see Masonic conspiracy theories). ADM ( talk) 11:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Probably not; Groulx' attittudes towards Jews predated the state of Israel, and Zionism itself would not have been on his radar. He was against freemasonry, but that does not seem related to his attitudes to Jews one way or the other. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
192.30.202.15 (
talk)
17:09, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe someone could add JdeB; Groulx helped him escape from Europe after World War 2 - Jacques de Bernonville. Thanks 78.16.33.213 ( talk) 07:41, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Lionel Groulx. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:15, 6 December 2017 (UTC)