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One anonymous editor changed the English translation of Shī Shì (施氏) to "... a poet whose surname is Shi". That may sound reasonable when looking at the Chinese term in isolation, and many translations do that. However, if that were the case, it will be incorrect to use Shì (氏) as an abbreviation of the main character in the rest of the passage. That will be analogous to use "Mr." as an abbreviation of "Mr. Shi". So in my opinion, Shī Shì (施氏) should be a proper noun, translated into "Shi Shi", not "Mr. Shi". -- Felix Wan 22:01, 27 January 2005 (UTC)
(氏) can mean "him"/"his" in the latter context. A classic 一字多義 scenerio. By dillee1 14/04/2005
氏 must be used as Mr. in 施氏 and as 他 when 施 is omitted in the sentences. Also the last sentence should be translated as:[ and he tried to get rid of this matter] because this sentence can not be regarded as a question since it lacks a question word. Lie-Hap-Po
Untill these questions and many others are answered, I regard Lion Eating Poet as P.D. Public Domain. Lie-Hap-Po 20:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Is this the famous poem I heard was called "Ten Stone Lions"? If so, lovely, and I'll create a redirect. Shenme 20:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
In all fairness, in many if not most Chinese "dialects", and I'll single out Cantonese and Kejia, much more of this poem would be comprehensible. Not only that, but these dialects, since not subjected to political correction, reflect a much older pronunciation system than does Mandarin.<spetz>. 72.76.248.151 22:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Lion Eating Poet text is not a Chinese text at all.
All Chinese languages, Acient or Modern , have grammar words.
This text has none.
For example the last sentence: Try to explain this matter? is a question so the particle ma in modern chinese or in hū in classical chinese is needed to change the sentence into a question.
Lie-Hap-Po
09:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
The word 氏 can mean "a certain person". 施氏 would therefore be "A certain person with the surname Shi". This applies to both men and women. The reason why the original author did not give a full name could be because he wanted to make 施氏 an ambigious person. 施氏 could be a "he" or a "she", and could be anybody. It would be better just to use the word "Shi" to address 施氏, rather than Mr. Shi or Shi Shi. Atticuslai 07:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
施氏 Could only be a Mr.Shi and not be a Mrs.Shi or a Miss Shi because women AREN'T 人 person(s), human being(s). That is, according Chinese and Western standards from Prehistoric Times untill 20th century AD
Um... Actually, 氏 is more often used for "Mrs" (which, I guess supports your point a little bit)... I think the reason why we assume the poet is male is because he(?) likes to eat lions... I think you might be more insulted if we were to all assume that the poet is female? Certainly your view on this matter is a bit extreme, and I'm not really sure why it would be relevant to the article.
129.97.236.47 (
talk)
05:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)illluck
"Shi shi shi shi shi" is not the only one; there are a whole variety of them, I'll list a few if anyone would like to write an article on them, or expand on them. The following stories and poems are all from antiquity, and are in public domain:
《施氏食狮史》 - 赵元任
石室诗士施氏,嗜狮,誓食十狮。施氏时时适市视狮。十时,适十狮适市。是时,适施氏适市。氏视是十狮,恃矢势,使是十狮逝世。氏拾是十狮尸,适石室。石室湿,氏使侍拭石室。石室拭,氏始试食是十狮。食时,始识是十狮,实十石狮尸。试释是事。
《于瑜与余欲渔遇雨》 - 杨富森
于瑜欲渔,遇余于寓。语余:“余欲渔于渝淤,与余渔渝欤?”
余语于瑜:“余欲鬻玉,俞禹欲玉,余欲遇俞于俞寓。”
余与于瑜遇俞禹于俞寓,逾俞隅,欲鬻玉于俞,遇雨,雨逾俞宇。余语于瑜:“余欲渔于渝淤,遇雨俞寓,雨逾俞宇,欲渔欤?鬻玉欤?”
于瑜与余御雨于俞寓,俞鬻玉于余禹,雨愈,余与于瑜踽踽逾俞宇,渔于渝淤。
《季姬击鸡记》
季姬寂,集鸡,鸡即棘鸡。棘鸡饥叽,季姬及箕稷济鸡。鸡既济,跻姬笈,季姬忌,急咭鸡,鸡急,继圾几,季姬急,即籍箕击鸡,箕疾击几伎,伎即齑,鸡叽集几基,季姬急极屐击鸡,鸡既殛,季姬激,即记《季姬击鸡记》。
《遗镒疑医》
伊姨殪,遗亿镒。伊诣邑,意医姨疫,一医医伊姨。翌,亿镒遗,疑医,以议医。医以伊疑,缢,以移伊疑。伊倚椅以忆,忆以亿镒遗,以议伊医,亦缢。噫!亦异矣!
《熙戏犀》
西溪犀,喜嬉戏。席熙夕夕携犀徙,席熙细细习洗犀。犀吸溪,戏袭熙。席熙嘻嘻希息戏。惜犀嘶嘶喜袭熙。
《饥鸡集矶记》
唧唧鸡,鸡唧唧。几鸡挤挤集矶脊。机极疾,鸡饥极,鸡冀己技击及鲫。机既济蓟畿,鸡计疾机激几鲫。机疾极,鲫极悸,急急挤集矶级际。继即鲫迹极寂寂,继即几鸡既饥,即唧唧。
《侄治痔》
芝之稚侄郅,至智,知制纸,知织帜,芝痔炙痔,侄至芝址,知之知芷汁治痔,至芷址,执芷枝,蜘至,踯侄,执直枝掷之,蜘止,侄执芷枝至芝,芝执芷治痔,痔止。
《羿裔熠邑彝》
羿裔熠①,邑②彝,义医,艺诣。
熠姨遗一裔伊③,伊仪迤,衣旖,异奕矣。
熠意④伊矣,易衣以贻伊,伊遗衣,衣异衣以意异熠,熠抑矣。
伊驿邑,弋一翳⑤,弈毅⑥。毅仪奕,诣弈,衣异,意逸。毅诣伊,益伊,伊怡,已臆⑦毅矣,毅亦怡伊。
翌,伊亦弈毅。毅以蜴贻伊,伊亦贻衣以毅。
伊疫,呓毅,癔异矣,倚椅咿咿,毅亦咿咿。
毅诣熠,意以熠,议熠医伊,熠懿⑧毅,意役毅逸。毅以熠宜伊,翼逸。
熠驿邑以医伊,疑伊胰痍⑨,以蚁医伊,伊遗异,溢,伊咦。熠移伊,刈薏⑩以医,伊益矣。
伊忆毅,亦呓毅矣,熠意伊毅已逸,熠意役伊。伊异,噫,缢。
熠癔,亦缢。
Notes 注解:
①熠:医生,据说为后羿的后裔。
②邑:以彝为邑,指居住在一个彝族聚居的地方。
③伊:绝世佳丽,仪态万方,神采奕奕。
④意:对伊有意思,指熠爱上了伊。
⑤翳:有遮蔽的地方,指伊游弋到了一个阴凉的地方。
⑥毅:逍遥不羁的浪人,善于下棋,神情坚毅,目光飘逸。
⑦臆:主观的感觉,通“意”,指对毅有好感。
⑧懿:原意为“懿旨”,此处引申为要挟,命令。
⑨胰痍:胰脏出现了疮痍。
⑩刈:割下草或者谷物一类。薏:薏米,白色,可供食用,也可入药。
Regards, -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 11:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Would it be possible for someone to read this aloud in Cantonese? A reading of the vernacular Chinese in Mandarin might also be helpful. — Jch thys 03:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
In the English translation part of the article, I think it would make more sense to use a more literal translation of the title. The title in the corresponding Chinese version posted does mention anything about a lion-eating poet or a stone den, but something more like "Record of Shi Eating Lions" or something along those lines.
Flybane (
talk)
03:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I personally agree with Flybane
Zz61961 (
talk)
11:58, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The GR in this article is a total mess. It needs to be rewritten from scratch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charmii ( talk • contribs) 20:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I wished to check here before posting the following new section. I think it a useful additional way to view the work. Clearly, if people like the addition, it should follow the existing sections on the more linguistic and orthographic features of the poem, which are first required to understand my essay or other poetic treatments of the subject.
Appreciate any comments. Also wonder if it is alright to link/reference my own essay on poetic treatment of "Ten Lions'? Not meant to be immodest or self-promotional. Only that it is the only treatment of the poetry of the work that I know of, to date. if anyone knows another, please let me know. Thank you.
--- Poetic Interpretation and the Riddle of the Narrative---
"Shi & the Ten Lions" is well-known for its demonstration of problems in transliteration and translation of Chinese writings. Othorgraphic, linguistic and other considerations nearly always overwhelm other interesting features of this work as we can see, even here on this page and in essays such as Antanaclasic Verse This is to be expected, as its author Chou Yuen Ren was a respected linguist and specialist in Chinese language studies. Indeed, "Ten Lions" was first published in his work "Dimensions of Fidelity in Translation With Special Reference to Chinese", which employed it to demonstrate various types of translation problems.
However, "Ten Lions" is also a work of poetry about which little has been seriously said. Most online treatments of the text regard it as a "tongue twister" or other type of language exercise though many google entries refer to the work as a "poem" (e.g. see here) or include it in poem anthologies (e.g. see here.) Moreover, the poem's narrative presents us with a riddle (the meaning of the narrative of the "Shi and the Ten Lions") to which comments in numerous online forums fail to give any plausible explanation of the meaning of the story or, simply dismiss it as an intractable puzzle, or nonsense (for example, these comments or or these). As one can see, most comments offer wildly improbable interpretations or simply ridicule the piece and give up on it as hopeless of any reasonable interpretation. Some just say, "WTF is this?" and let it go at that.
Only one essay of which I'm aware, "Shi and the Story of the Ten Lions" by this editor [1], analyzes the work as serious poetry and attempts to provide plausible solution-sets to the riddle of the narrative. The irony of course is that the use and excellence of the piece as a linguistic exercise and demonstration (it first appeared In Ren's text on the problems of Chinese language translation), is that its merit as a work of poetry has been almost entirely overlooked. In this, I personally estimate the work, en toto, as one which is not only excellent poetry, but may very well edge, someday, into being one of our "great poems" as well. Redslider ( talk) 02:24, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
The text of passage technically is still copyrighted, since the original author is known and the copyright is still in effect (author life plus 50 years - author died in 1982) SYSS Mouse 14:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I think this thread could usefully be moved to the other copyright infringement section? Redslider ( talk) 20:25, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Huangdi - I am wondering if you think my essay adds anything to the regard we should be giving this work. Granted, at best it now serves as a demonstration of translation problems; at worst, a silly little exercise which schoolchildren are made to memorize. But, if I'm correct, there is a good deal more it. Chou Yuen Ren was not only a gifted linguist, but certainly had a competent poetics skill-set at his command. His translation of Alice & Wonderland tells us that much. While music was his other vocation, it is not far from poetry, and one of his pieces was, in fact, titled "A Poetic Song Book". So I think it no stretch to assert that his skill with poetry was also at play in the construction of the work. (ps. I have no competence in Chinese language at all, so I can't speak to that, excepts for what others have written to explain that part of the work). thanx for any comment you care to make. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redslider ( talk • contribs) 02:16, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I suggest the name of the article "Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den" be changed to "Shi and the Ten Stone Lions" or just "Ten Stone Lions" for three reasons -
To paraphrase a comment you made on your own user talk page ,in another context, 'I don't care about policy or policy discussions of the matter. I think the current title of the article is crap.' If you or someone else wants to rewrite it, that would be good. A more natural title might attract people who are curious about it, but who are not language or translation savvy. Your work on the language/translations sections are good, I expect (not my discipline so I can't really say). At least it informed me about some of the language matters of the work.
An added intro to the article for the layman, might also be nice. Something to give an overview of what the heck this is about. Maybe a word or two on what Chou Yuen Ren was trying to demonstrate, and how he did it. I also think an added section on the poem/narrative, as poetry, would be good - but you already shot me down on that for sourcing my own, and only poetic treatment, of the work (far from being "self-promotional" - i get nothing from it - it promoted the interest and depth of the piece as poem, that's all). I leave to all to you. Heavy-handed invocations of WP policy are of no interest to me. Rules are as easily used to exclude material that would enhance an article as they are to keep things in bounds. The article calls it a "poem" and then says absolutely nothing about its poetry. You have employed WP policy three times on my Talk entries to exclude (one to revert a talk section as well), and I think that kind rule-hammering is also crap. But, this is your fiefdom. (btw, if you search on the twitter for '#lion-eating' you get about 20 hits, of which only 2 are about the poem; #Stone-den gets about 10, and zero of them refer to the work. (we're not talking search here, we're talking how people relate to these phrases, what comes to their minds with these terms) Anyway, do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. It's a little backwater article that hardly anyone visits. In your hands, I think it will remain that way. And its all yours. Redslider ( talk) 17:30, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
In Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den, The poem was copyrighted writed by Chao_Yuen_Ren died in 1982, So any translates about this poem are infringement of copyright. Sysywjel ( talk) 14:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Sysywjel ( talk) 15:19, 21 October 2010 (UTC)Article 59 The rights of copyright owners, publishers, performers, producers of sound recordings and video recordings, radio stations and television' stations as provided for in this Law, of which the term of protection specified in this Law has not yet expired on the date of this Law's entry into force, shall be protected in accordance with this Law.
I've taken a slightly different approach. I've looked for other places where a copy of the work that closely resembles the translation here (in the English narrative part) are included in someones book or essay that has been copyrighted. Then I'm contacting the authors of that essay or book and asking them what they found out about the copyright status of 'Ten Stone Lions'. I'm guessing some of them have done the research (or their publishers did) and that it satisfied their own legal requirements. One of these is on ProZ.com website and the author specifies that they are "merciless" about copyright infingement. I've made inquiry directly to the author of that essay. I'll report here when/if I hear back from them. Redslider ( talk) 20:09, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
This article makes absolutely no sense. Is it even worth having? ToaJuaraevo ( talk) 18:30, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
« Shī Shì shí shī shǐ » Shíshì shīshì Shī Shì, shì shī, shì shí shí shī. Shì shíshí shì shì shì shī. Shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì. Shì shí, shì Shī Shì shì shì. Shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì, shǐ shì shí shī shìshì. Shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shíshì. Shíshì shī, Shì shǐ shì shì shíshì. Shíshì shì, Shì shǐ shì shí shì shí shī. Shí shí, shǐ shí shì shí shī shī, shí shí shí shī shī. Shì shì shì shì. « Shi Shy shyi shi she » Shyrshyh shyshyh Shy Shyh, shyh shy, shyh shyr shyr shy. Shyh shyrshyr shyh shyh shyh shy. Shyr shyr, shyh shy shy shyh shyh. Shyh shyr, shyh Shy Shyh shyh shyh. Shyh shyh shyh shyr shy, shyh shyy shyh, shyy shyh shyr shy shyhshyh. Shyh shyr shyh shyr shy shy, shyh shyrshyh. Shyrshyh shy, Shyh shyy shyh shyh shyrshyh. Shyrshyh shyh, Shyh shyy shyh shyr shyh shyr shy. Shyr shyh, shyy shyr shyh shyr shr, shyr shyr shyr shy shy. Shyh shyh shyh shyh.
How does this translate into anything meaningfull? All it is is the same words repeated over and over. ToaJuaraevo ( talk) 20:53, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
施氏:A person surnamed Shi
食:Eat
獅:Lion
史:History, or in this context, story
I think this way is closer to what the Chinese means.-- Inspector ( talk) 05:08, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
{{
zh}}
template to add a literal translation to the lede, which should be fine per
WP:TRANSCRIPTION. —/
Mendaliv/
2¢/
Δ's/
16:11, 8 April 2013 (UTC)I would love to hear an audio sample of how this would sound in Chinese. Dan ( talk) 16:27, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to request that the audio be restored.
Note that the deletion request referenced above has now vanished, so I don't know what Eusebius's reasoning was.
David Lloyd-Jones ( talk) 14:27, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Surprisingly, there is rather useless translation, but no gloss. Could someone add it? 178.49.152.66 ( talk) 00:16, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
Classical Chinese pronunciation in antiquity is rather empty 108.41.96.184 ( talk) 22:50, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved ( non-admin closure) Fuortu ( talk) 10:23, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den → Shi Shi Shi Shi Shi – There are 2 ways to render Chinese to English, translation and transcription. In this case the meaning of the text isn't as important as the pronunciation, so transcription should be preferred. (Besides I don't see how 施氏食狮史 is translated to "Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den".) Ghits: ""Shi Shi Shi Shi Shi" "Yuen Ren Chao" = 680; "Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den" "Yuen Ren Chao" = 589. Timmyshin ( talk) 08:33, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
One anonymous editor changed the English translation of Shī Shì (施氏) to "... a poet whose surname is Shi". That may sound reasonable when looking at the Chinese term in isolation, and many translations do that. However, if that were the case, it will be incorrect to use Shì (氏) as an abbreviation of the main character in the rest of the passage. That will be analogous to use "Mr." as an abbreviation of "Mr. Shi". So in my opinion, Shī Shì (施氏) should be a proper noun, translated into "Shi Shi", not "Mr. Shi". -- Felix Wan 22:01, 27 January 2005 (UTC)
(氏) can mean "him"/"his" in the latter context. A classic 一字多義 scenerio. By dillee1 14/04/2005
氏 must be used as Mr. in 施氏 and as 他 when 施 is omitted in the sentences. Also the last sentence should be translated as:[ and he tried to get rid of this matter] because this sentence can not be regarded as a question since it lacks a question word. Lie-Hap-Po
Untill these questions and many others are answered, I regard Lion Eating Poet as P.D. Public Domain. Lie-Hap-Po 20:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Is this the famous poem I heard was called "Ten Stone Lions"? If so, lovely, and I'll create a redirect. Shenme 20:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
In all fairness, in many if not most Chinese "dialects", and I'll single out Cantonese and Kejia, much more of this poem would be comprehensible. Not only that, but these dialects, since not subjected to political correction, reflect a much older pronunciation system than does Mandarin.<spetz>. 72.76.248.151 22:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Lion Eating Poet text is not a Chinese text at all.
All Chinese languages, Acient or Modern , have grammar words.
This text has none.
For example the last sentence: Try to explain this matter? is a question so the particle ma in modern chinese or in hū in classical chinese is needed to change the sentence into a question.
Lie-Hap-Po
09:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
The word 氏 can mean "a certain person". 施氏 would therefore be "A certain person with the surname Shi". This applies to both men and women. The reason why the original author did not give a full name could be because he wanted to make 施氏 an ambigious person. 施氏 could be a "he" or a "she", and could be anybody. It would be better just to use the word "Shi" to address 施氏, rather than Mr. Shi or Shi Shi. Atticuslai 07:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
施氏 Could only be a Mr.Shi and not be a Mrs.Shi or a Miss Shi because women AREN'T 人 person(s), human being(s). That is, according Chinese and Western standards from Prehistoric Times untill 20th century AD
Um... Actually, 氏 is more often used for "Mrs" (which, I guess supports your point a little bit)... I think the reason why we assume the poet is male is because he(?) likes to eat lions... I think you might be more insulted if we were to all assume that the poet is female? Certainly your view on this matter is a bit extreme, and I'm not really sure why it would be relevant to the article.
129.97.236.47 (
talk)
05:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)illluck
"Shi shi shi shi shi" is not the only one; there are a whole variety of them, I'll list a few if anyone would like to write an article on them, or expand on them. The following stories and poems are all from antiquity, and are in public domain:
《施氏食狮史》 - 赵元任
石室诗士施氏,嗜狮,誓食十狮。施氏时时适市视狮。十时,适十狮适市。是时,适施氏适市。氏视是十狮,恃矢势,使是十狮逝世。氏拾是十狮尸,适石室。石室湿,氏使侍拭石室。石室拭,氏始试食是十狮。食时,始识是十狮,实十石狮尸。试释是事。
《于瑜与余欲渔遇雨》 - 杨富森
于瑜欲渔,遇余于寓。语余:“余欲渔于渝淤,与余渔渝欤?”
余语于瑜:“余欲鬻玉,俞禹欲玉,余欲遇俞于俞寓。”
余与于瑜遇俞禹于俞寓,逾俞隅,欲鬻玉于俞,遇雨,雨逾俞宇。余语于瑜:“余欲渔于渝淤,遇雨俞寓,雨逾俞宇,欲渔欤?鬻玉欤?”
于瑜与余御雨于俞寓,俞鬻玉于余禹,雨愈,余与于瑜踽踽逾俞宇,渔于渝淤。
《季姬击鸡记》
季姬寂,集鸡,鸡即棘鸡。棘鸡饥叽,季姬及箕稷济鸡。鸡既济,跻姬笈,季姬忌,急咭鸡,鸡急,继圾几,季姬急,即籍箕击鸡,箕疾击几伎,伎即齑,鸡叽集几基,季姬急极屐击鸡,鸡既殛,季姬激,即记《季姬击鸡记》。
《遗镒疑医》
伊姨殪,遗亿镒。伊诣邑,意医姨疫,一医医伊姨。翌,亿镒遗,疑医,以议医。医以伊疑,缢,以移伊疑。伊倚椅以忆,忆以亿镒遗,以议伊医,亦缢。噫!亦异矣!
《熙戏犀》
西溪犀,喜嬉戏。席熙夕夕携犀徙,席熙细细习洗犀。犀吸溪,戏袭熙。席熙嘻嘻希息戏。惜犀嘶嘶喜袭熙。
《饥鸡集矶记》
唧唧鸡,鸡唧唧。几鸡挤挤集矶脊。机极疾,鸡饥极,鸡冀己技击及鲫。机既济蓟畿,鸡计疾机激几鲫。机疾极,鲫极悸,急急挤集矶级际。继即鲫迹极寂寂,继即几鸡既饥,即唧唧。
《侄治痔》
芝之稚侄郅,至智,知制纸,知织帜,芝痔炙痔,侄至芝址,知之知芷汁治痔,至芷址,执芷枝,蜘至,踯侄,执直枝掷之,蜘止,侄执芷枝至芝,芝执芷治痔,痔止。
《羿裔熠邑彝》
羿裔熠①,邑②彝,义医,艺诣。
熠姨遗一裔伊③,伊仪迤,衣旖,异奕矣。
熠意④伊矣,易衣以贻伊,伊遗衣,衣异衣以意异熠,熠抑矣。
伊驿邑,弋一翳⑤,弈毅⑥。毅仪奕,诣弈,衣异,意逸。毅诣伊,益伊,伊怡,已臆⑦毅矣,毅亦怡伊。
翌,伊亦弈毅。毅以蜴贻伊,伊亦贻衣以毅。
伊疫,呓毅,癔异矣,倚椅咿咿,毅亦咿咿。
毅诣熠,意以熠,议熠医伊,熠懿⑧毅,意役毅逸。毅以熠宜伊,翼逸。
熠驿邑以医伊,疑伊胰痍⑨,以蚁医伊,伊遗异,溢,伊咦。熠移伊,刈薏⑩以医,伊益矣。
伊忆毅,亦呓毅矣,熠意伊毅已逸,熠意役伊。伊异,噫,缢。
熠癔,亦缢。
Notes 注解:
①熠:医生,据说为后羿的后裔。
②邑:以彝为邑,指居住在一个彝族聚居的地方。
③伊:绝世佳丽,仪态万方,神采奕奕。
④意:对伊有意思,指熠爱上了伊。
⑤翳:有遮蔽的地方,指伊游弋到了一个阴凉的地方。
⑥毅:逍遥不羁的浪人,善于下棋,神情坚毅,目光飘逸。
⑦臆:主观的感觉,通“意”,指对毅有好感。
⑧懿:原意为“懿旨”,此处引申为要挟,命令。
⑨胰痍:胰脏出现了疮痍。
⑩刈:割下草或者谷物一类。薏:薏米,白色,可供食用,也可入药。
Regards, -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs email 11:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Would it be possible for someone to read this aloud in Cantonese? A reading of the vernacular Chinese in Mandarin might also be helpful. — Jch thys 03:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
In the English translation part of the article, I think it would make more sense to use a more literal translation of the title. The title in the corresponding Chinese version posted does mention anything about a lion-eating poet or a stone den, but something more like "Record of Shi Eating Lions" or something along those lines.
Flybane (
talk)
03:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I personally agree with Flybane
Zz61961 (
talk)
11:58, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The GR in this article is a total mess. It needs to be rewritten from scratch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charmii ( talk • contribs) 20:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I wished to check here before posting the following new section. I think it a useful additional way to view the work. Clearly, if people like the addition, it should follow the existing sections on the more linguistic and orthographic features of the poem, which are first required to understand my essay or other poetic treatments of the subject.
Appreciate any comments. Also wonder if it is alright to link/reference my own essay on poetic treatment of "Ten Lions'? Not meant to be immodest or self-promotional. Only that it is the only treatment of the poetry of the work that I know of, to date. if anyone knows another, please let me know. Thank you.
--- Poetic Interpretation and the Riddle of the Narrative---
"Shi & the Ten Lions" is well-known for its demonstration of problems in transliteration and translation of Chinese writings. Othorgraphic, linguistic and other considerations nearly always overwhelm other interesting features of this work as we can see, even here on this page and in essays such as Antanaclasic Verse This is to be expected, as its author Chou Yuen Ren was a respected linguist and specialist in Chinese language studies. Indeed, "Ten Lions" was first published in his work "Dimensions of Fidelity in Translation With Special Reference to Chinese", which employed it to demonstrate various types of translation problems.
However, "Ten Lions" is also a work of poetry about which little has been seriously said. Most online treatments of the text regard it as a "tongue twister" or other type of language exercise though many google entries refer to the work as a "poem" (e.g. see here) or include it in poem anthologies (e.g. see here.) Moreover, the poem's narrative presents us with a riddle (the meaning of the narrative of the "Shi and the Ten Lions") to which comments in numerous online forums fail to give any plausible explanation of the meaning of the story or, simply dismiss it as an intractable puzzle, or nonsense (for example, these comments or or these). As one can see, most comments offer wildly improbable interpretations or simply ridicule the piece and give up on it as hopeless of any reasonable interpretation. Some just say, "WTF is this?" and let it go at that.
Only one essay of which I'm aware, "Shi and the Story of the Ten Lions" by this editor [1], analyzes the work as serious poetry and attempts to provide plausible solution-sets to the riddle of the narrative. The irony of course is that the use and excellence of the piece as a linguistic exercise and demonstration (it first appeared In Ren's text on the problems of Chinese language translation), is that its merit as a work of poetry has been almost entirely overlooked. In this, I personally estimate the work, en toto, as one which is not only excellent poetry, but may very well edge, someday, into being one of our "great poems" as well. Redslider ( talk) 02:24, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
The text of passage technically is still copyrighted, since the original author is known and the copyright is still in effect (author life plus 50 years - author died in 1982) SYSS Mouse 14:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I think this thread could usefully be moved to the other copyright infringement section? Redslider ( talk) 20:25, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Huangdi - I am wondering if you think my essay adds anything to the regard we should be giving this work. Granted, at best it now serves as a demonstration of translation problems; at worst, a silly little exercise which schoolchildren are made to memorize. But, if I'm correct, there is a good deal more it. Chou Yuen Ren was not only a gifted linguist, but certainly had a competent poetics skill-set at his command. His translation of Alice & Wonderland tells us that much. While music was his other vocation, it is not far from poetry, and one of his pieces was, in fact, titled "A Poetic Song Book". So I think it no stretch to assert that his skill with poetry was also at play in the construction of the work. (ps. I have no competence in Chinese language at all, so I can't speak to that, excepts for what others have written to explain that part of the work). thanx for any comment you care to make. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redslider ( talk • contribs) 02:16, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I suggest the name of the article "Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den" be changed to "Shi and the Ten Stone Lions" or just "Ten Stone Lions" for three reasons -
To paraphrase a comment you made on your own user talk page ,in another context, 'I don't care about policy or policy discussions of the matter. I think the current title of the article is crap.' If you or someone else wants to rewrite it, that would be good. A more natural title might attract people who are curious about it, but who are not language or translation savvy. Your work on the language/translations sections are good, I expect (not my discipline so I can't really say). At least it informed me about some of the language matters of the work.
An added intro to the article for the layman, might also be nice. Something to give an overview of what the heck this is about. Maybe a word or two on what Chou Yuen Ren was trying to demonstrate, and how he did it. I also think an added section on the poem/narrative, as poetry, would be good - but you already shot me down on that for sourcing my own, and only poetic treatment, of the work (far from being "self-promotional" - i get nothing from it - it promoted the interest and depth of the piece as poem, that's all). I leave to all to you. Heavy-handed invocations of WP policy are of no interest to me. Rules are as easily used to exclude material that would enhance an article as they are to keep things in bounds. The article calls it a "poem" and then says absolutely nothing about its poetry. You have employed WP policy three times on my Talk entries to exclude (one to revert a talk section as well), and I think that kind rule-hammering is also crap. But, this is your fiefdom. (btw, if you search on the twitter for '#lion-eating' you get about 20 hits, of which only 2 are about the poem; #Stone-den gets about 10, and zero of them refer to the work. (we're not talking search here, we're talking how people relate to these phrases, what comes to their minds with these terms) Anyway, do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. It's a little backwater article that hardly anyone visits. In your hands, I think it will remain that way. And its all yours. Redslider ( talk) 17:30, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
In Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den, The poem was copyrighted writed by Chao_Yuen_Ren died in 1982, So any translates about this poem are infringement of copyright. Sysywjel ( talk) 14:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Sysywjel ( talk) 15:19, 21 October 2010 (UTC)Article 59 The rights of copyright owners, publishers, performers, producers of sound recordings and video recordings, radio stations and television' stations as provided for in this Law, of which the term of protection specified in this Law has not yet expired on the date of this Law's entry into force, shall be protected in accordance with this Law.
I've taken a slightly different approach. I've looked for other places where a copy of the work that closely resembles the translation here (in the English narrative part) are included in someones book or essay that has been copyrighted. Then I'm contacting the authors of that essay or book and asking them what they found out about the copyright status of 'Ten Stone Lions'. I'm guessing some of them have done the research (or their publishers did) and that it satisfied their own legal requirements. One of these is on ProZ.com website and the author specifies that they are "merciless" about copyright infingement. I've made inquiry directly to the author of that essay. I'll report here when/if I hear back from them. Redslider ( talk) 20:09, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
This article makes absolutely no sense. Is it even worth having? ToaJuaraevo ( talk) 18:30, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
« Shī Shì shí shī shǐ » Shíshì shīshì Shī Shì, shì shī, shì shí shí shī. Shì shíshí shì shì shì shī. Shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì. Shì shí, shì Shī Shì shì shì. Shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì, shǐ shì shí shī shìshì. Shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shíshì. Shíshì shī, Shì shǐ shì shì shíshì. Shíshì shì, Shì shǐ shì shí shì shí shī. Shí shí, shǐ shí shì shí shī shī, shí shí shí shī shī. Shì shì shì shì. « Shi Shy shyi shi she » Shyrshyh shyshyh Shy Shyh, shyh shy, shyh shyr shyr shy. Shyh shyrshyr shyh shyh shyh shy. Shyr shyr, shyh shy shy shyh shyh. Shyh shyr, shyh Shy Shyh shyh shyh. Shyh shyh shyh shyr shy, shyh shyy shyh, shyy shyh shyr shy shyhshyh. Shyh shyr shyh shyr shy shy, shyh shyrshyh. Shyrshyh shy, Shyh shyy shyh shyh shyrshyh. Shyrshyh shyh, Shyh shyy shyh shyr shyh shyr shy. Shyr shyh, shyy shyr shyh shyr shr, shyr shyr shyr shy shy. Shyh shyh shyh shyh.
How does this translate into anything meaningfull? All it is is the same words repeated over and over. ToaJuaraevo ( talk) 20:53, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
施氏:A person surnamed Shi
食:Eat
獅:Lion
史:History, or in this context, story
I think this way is closer to what the Chinese means.-- Inspector ( talk) 05:08, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
{{
zh}}
template to add a literal translation to the lede, which should be fine per
WP:TRANSCRIPTION. —/
Mendaliv/
2¢/
Δ's/
16:11, 8 April 2013 (UTC)I would love to hear an audio sample of how this would sound in Chinese. Dan ( talk) 16:27, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to request that the audio be restored.
Note that the deletion request referenced above has now vanished, so I don't know what Eusebius's reasoning was.
David Lloyd-Jones ( talk) 14:27, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Surprisingly, there is rather useless translation, but no gloss. Could someone add it? 178.49.152.66 ( talk) 00:16, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
Classical Chinese pronunciation in antiquity is rather empty 108.41.96.184 ( talk) 22:50, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved ( non-admin closure) Fuortu ( talk) 10:23, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den → Shi Shi Shi Shi Shi – There are 2 ways to render Chinese to English, translation and transcription. In this case the meaning of the text isn't as important as the pronunciation, so transcription should be preferred. (Besides I don't see how 施氏食狮史 is translated to "Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den".) Ghits: ""Shi Shi Shi Shi Shi" "Yuen Ren Chao" = 680; "Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den" "Yuen Ren Chao" = 589. Timmyshin ( talk) 08:33, 22 December 2016 (UTC)