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This article contains a translation of Variedad del idioma español en territorios catalanófonos from es.wikipedia. ( 693821550 et seq.) |
I've deleted two entries in the Bibliography which don't say a single word about Levantino Spanish. In addition, all the article sounds like a bunch of popular myths with no academic support. There is no homogeneous dialect of Spanish in the Catalan-speaking territories, and I should know, because I've lived in those territories most of my life. -- Jotamar ( talk) 16:18, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I forgot to mention that the 2 remaining bibliography entries, which I haven't been able to check, are high-school manuals, and therefore have only a very marginal value as sources for WP. -- Jotamar ( talk) 16:37, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
This is not mixed language. is clearly Slanish Language with few (very very few compared with the Spanish used) and specified word in Catalan, just the named in article in all the variety. Mexican Spanish (just one example) still being Spanish perphaps that has more much Indigenous word in its Spanish than this Levantino,-- Vvven ( talk) 15:23, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I suggest to change the title, delete the entry Levantino Spanish, and perhaps split the concept. — Jɑuмe ( dis-me) 09:35, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I will move the article name to "Catalan/Valenciano Spanish". We can agree with that?-- Vvven ( talk) 16:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
What other concepts? i think is worth this entry. and as Mexican Spanish, or Venezuelan Spanish, this entry goes to the language and not for the people, and much more the Valencian due that Valencians and Catalans are Spanish. i still think that "Catalan/Valenciano Spanish" is more correct for the name of the article than links-- Vvven ( talk) 16:53, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
ok and what do you propose? (to be fair; and consistent with other related articles in wikipedia)-- Vvven ( talk) 17:33, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Catalanyol, not because is not a mixed language. neither thinks i "Spanish language in Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearic Islands (or the Balearics)" seems to be the name to the portuguese or german in catalonia or valecian, and not shoould be like this because is a language that all people in that regions speaks, being co. official since 600 years old and native for much population in that regions named. It should be "Catalan / Balear / partially-Valenciano Spanish"-- Vvven ( talk) 18:09, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Jotamar you give no credibility beacuse you are Catalanist-biased. but is evidentment a dialect of Spanish that exist in East Spain, and is not a mixed language, just took words of a regional language, (same as Mexican, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan, Galician, ect)-- Vvven ( talk) 18:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I know, Catalonia has a native language, the Catalan that has spread into Valencia region, and Balearic Islands, Andorra and Roussillon in the Middle Ages, and the Spanish into Catalonia, Balearic and Valencia since first decades of Early Modern Ages, wathever the basied or not basied the history, today practically (+95%) sppeak, read, write both languages in that region, one of them it diference some the Valencian of Catalan, and it is a dialect, same as is some different this dialect of this article, of Castilian Spanish, and for this, not should be named like just a foreign language speak on this region, but a language of the two spoke by the people in this region-- Vvven ( talk) 19:20, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
sure. (I'm really disagree with your apretiation), i said you all the general facts of the East Spain´s history, i spend times studying that fact. (and i think the Catalan Countries is just a given name by Catalans from Catalonia, for refer to Valencian Community and Balearic Islands. all autonomous communities that millions people feels Spanish. remember in these have both-official the Spanish and Catalan/Valencian and all people speak both every day).. i still think this is the best option "Catalan / Valencian / Balearic Spanish", due (one of the causes) is that in all dialects of Spanish, are called by English-speakers "Venezuelan Spanish", Colombian Spanish", "Mexican Spanish", "Maracucho Spanish", "LLanero Spanish", -see all end in spanish - -- Vvven ( talk) 19:15, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
the way that Caracas Spanish is different to Maracucho Spanish, is too different, both have its accents, his modisms, and look at the mexican spanish, with hundred of Spanish words changed for Aztec words. and all still being Spanish Language, this occur much in many languages, as other language modify the language but without loss the structure, this neither happen here, this is clearly a dialect as others of the Spanish. and as such it should call [[ (name) Spanish]]-- Vvven ( talk) 00:47, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
i could says that "Variety of Spanish language in Catalan-speakers territories" is acceptable due that certainly there a variety of the Spanish spoke by the mostly of population in that zone. Sirs, We could be accord?.-- Vvven ( talk) 06:07, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
I traduce it, and it is a bit long the article name but if you think it might be the right, then it could be so: "Linguistic features of Spanish language spoken by Catalan-speakers" -- Vvven ( talk) 20:26, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
since nobody says anything now proceed to rename the article. has been a splash (un gustazo) discuss with you, gentlemens, VIVA ESP-- Vvven ( talk) 03:32, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
I've tried to clarify some of the points, after reading the Spanish and Catalan WP versions of this page. However, sources are still dearly needed. -- Jotamar ( talk) 16:34, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I think this page should be renamed to "Catalan Spanish". The current title is a) very cumbersome and b) needlessly limiting. Spanish with a Catalan accent is not limited to people who have Catalan as their native language. There are many people rooted in Catalonia who were raised in Spanish, but only few of them will speak Spanish the way it is spoken in Castilia. They will always have a Catalan accent to some degree and probably also use catalanisms.
I have heard a lot of people speaking Dutch with Frisian or Limburgish accents and regionalisms. From my own experience, I know the heaviness of their accent tells nothing about whether or not they speak Frisian or Limburgish as their mother tongue. Indeed, those raised in Dutch by parents speaking regional languages have often the strongest accents. I think this will be no different with Catalan Spanish.
Steinbach (
talk) 06:47, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article contains a translation of Variedad del idioma español en territorios catalanófonos from es.wikipedia. ( 693821550 et seq.) |
I've deleted two entries in the Bibliography which don't say a single word about Levantino Spanish. In addition, all the article sounds like a bunch of popular myths with no academic support. There is no homogeneous dialect of Spanish in the Catalan-speaking territories, and I should know, because I've lived in those territories most of my life. -- Jotamar ( talk) 16:18, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I forgot to mention that the 2 remaining bibliography entries, which I haven't been able to check, are high-school manuals, and therefore have only a very marginal value as sources for WP. -- Jotamar ( talk) 16:37, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
This is not mixed language. is clearly Slanish Language with few (very very few compared with the Spanish used) and specified word in Catalan, just the named in article in all the variety. Mexican Spanish (just one example) still being Spanish perphaps that has more much Indigenous word in its Spanish than this Levantino,-- Vvven ( talk) 15:23, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I suggest to change the title, delete the entry Levantino Spanish, and perhaps split the concept. — Jɑuмe ( dis-me) 09:35, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I will move the article name to "Catalan/Valenciano Spanish". We can agree with that?-- Vvven ( talk) 16:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
What other concepts? i think is worth this entry. and as Mexican Spanish, or Venezuelan Spanish, this entry goes to the language and not for the people, and much more the Valencian due that Valencians and Catalans are Spanish. i still think that "Catalan/Valenciano Spanish" is more correct for the name of the article than links-- Vvven ( talk) 16:53, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
ok and what do you propose? (to be fair; and consistent with other related articles in wikipedia)-- Vvven ( talk) 17:33, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Catalanyol, not because is not a mixed language. neither thinks i "Spanish language in Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearic Islands (or the Balearics)" seems to be the name to the portuguese or german in catalonia or valecian, and not shoould be like this because is a language that all people in that regions speaks, being co. official since 600 years old and native for much population in that regions named. It should be "Catalan / Balear / partially-Valenciano Spanish"-- Vvven ( talk) 18:09, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Jotamar you give no credibility beacuse you are Catalanist-biased. but is evidentment a dialect of Spanish that exist in East Spain, and is not a mixed language, just took words of a regional language, (same as Mexican, Puerto Rican, Venezuelan, Galician, ect)-- Vvven ( talk) 18:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I know, Catalonia has a native language, the Catalan that has spread into Valencia region, and Balearic Islands, Andorra and Roussillon in the Middle Ages, and the Spanish into Catalonia, Balearic and Valencia since first decades of Early Modern Ages, wathever the basied or not basied the history, today practically (+95%) sppeak, read, write both languages in that region, one of them it diference some the Valencian of Catalan, and it is a dialect, same as is some different this dialect of this article, of Castilian Spanish, and for this, not should be named like just a foreign language speak on this region, but a language of the two spoke by the people in this region-- Vvven ( talk) 19:20, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
sure. (I'm really disagree with your apretiation), i said you all the general facts of the East Spain´s history, i spend times studying that fact. (and i think the Catalan Countries is just a given name by Catalans from Catalonia, for refer to Valencian Community and Balearic Islands. all autonomous communities that millions people feels Spanish. remember in these have both-official the Spanish and Catalan/Valencian and all people speak both every day).. i still think this is the best option "Catalan / Valencian / Balearic Spanish", due (one of the causes) is that in all dialects of Spanish, are called by English-speakers "Venezuelan Spanish", Colombian Spanish", "Mexican Spanish", "Maracucho Spanish", "LLanero Spanish", -see all end in spanish - -- Vvven ( talk) 19:15, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
the way that Caracas Spanish is different to Maracucho Spanish, is too different, both have its accents, his modisms, and look at the mexican spanish, with hundred of Spanish words changed for Aztec words. and all still being Spanish Language, this occur much in many languages, as other language modify the language but without loss the structure, this neither happen here, this is clearly a dialect as others of the Spanish. and as such it should call [[ (name) Spanish]]-- Vvven ( talk) 00:47, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
i could says that "Variety of Spanish language in Catalan-speakers territories" is acceptable due that certainly there a variety of the Spanish spoke by the mostly of population in that zone. Sirs, We could be accord?.-- Vvven ( talk) 06:07, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
I traduce it, and it is a bit long the article name but if you think it might be the right, then it could be so: "Linguistic features of Spanish language spoken by Catalan-speakers" -- Vvven ( talk) 20:26, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
since nobody says anything now proceed to rename the article. has been a splash (un gustazo) discuss with you, gentlemens, VIVA ESP-- Vvven ( talk) 03:32, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
I've tried to clarify some of the points, after reading the Spanish and Catalan WP versions of this page. However, sources are still dearly needed. -- Jotamar ( talk) 16:34, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I think this page should be renamed to "Catalan Spanish". The current title is a) very cumbersome and b) needlessly limiting. Spanish with a Catalan accent is not limited to people who have Catalan as their native language. There are many people rooted in Catalonia who were raised in Spanish, but only few of them will speak Spanish the way it is spoken in Castilia. They will always have a Catalan accent to some degree and probably also use catalanisms.
I have heard a lot of people speaking Dutch with Frisian or Limburgish accents and regionalisms. From my own experience, I know the heaviness of their accent tells nothing about whether or not they speak Frisian or Limburgish as their mother tongue. Indeed, those raised in Dutch by parents speaking regional languages have often the strongest accents. I think this will be no different with Catalan Spanish.
Steinbach (
talk) 06:47, 27 July 2021 (UTC)