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Alright... here we go again with beating a dead horse... I just removed this entry from the trivia section:
- However, even if anime sources name her "Lind", in volume 24, page 158 of the Japanese original Kodansha edition (where the character first appears), her name is clearly stated as being "Rind".
Now then. Let's start off with some facts. #1: Lind's first appearance was the Dreamcast AMG quiz game; not the manga. #2: ONLY that page (and direct recycles of it) has ever spelled Lind's name with an "R" instead of an "L" in the entire catalog of AMG. #3: As mentioned endlessly, over and over again in other discussions, everything else (including sketch artwork from Fujishima - THE CREATOR) has the name spelled as Lind and not Rind. #4: The Dark Horse has accepted the Lind translation for their translated publication.
Doing some common sense in the matter, and give how easily the Japanese get the L and R things mixed up - and the fact that Kodasha has done typo's in the past with their own native Japanese (kanji mix ups mostly) - the Rind spelling was most likely a typo. Everything points AGAINST the name being spelled as Rind. The trivia entry removed seems to try and contradict the previous entry in justifying that Rind is correct. It is not correct. Lind is correct. Rind is fannon and at best mistranslation. Maybe it's the wording or something... I don't know...
This whole Rind VS Lind thing is getting old... the Japanese never had a problem with it, and the endless argument should have ended with Dark Horse's final judgment in the matter. Come on people... get over it already. To sate the other side, I will see about reentering the removed statement in a less "poisoning" manner - unless someone else beats me too it.
- There... I modified the original Trivia entry to make mention of the "proof that Rind is correct spelling" in it. Still... it sounds poisoning against Rind... Then again, Rind isn't correct, so I suppose there's no reason to try and make it sound correct either. Please discuss and enlighten me if I'm wrong...
Well it's official. Dark Horse spells the goddess's name as Lind. So does the anime. So does the SEGA Dreamcast game. So does the official artbooks in Japan (thus so does Fujishima, the character's creator). Now, at the expense of beating a dead horse, should we remove that "Rind" from the first paragraph of the article? Spelling is Lind according to all the OFFICIAL sources. To be blunt: Rind is a fandom name. Belldandy is spelled Belldandy... not Verthandi. Lind is spelled Lind... not Rind.
- If on top of the Belldandy page we have the disamb sentence, I see no reason in deleting that disamb here. Just get rid of all the other Rinds on the page. MythSearcher talk 03:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
According to the "Ah! My Goddess Collection" (a 15th anniversary reference book) and dustjacket illustrations from the graphic novels, "Rindo" should be romanised as "Lind."
- However, that is a Japanese publication. Until either Dark Horse comics (North American distributor of the manga) or Media Blasters (North American distributor of the television series, only animation of A!MG that Rind is actually in) give evidence that Rind's name is really supposed to be Lind, leaving it as Rind is fine. Remember that the "l" and "r" sounds are interchangeable in Japanese, which is why if you listen to the Japanese dub of Ranma for example, it sounds like a lot of characters are calling him, "Lanma". - Js2756 13:09, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
Fujishima Kosuke says its LIND in Romajii
- I was recently informed that within the artbook "Ah! My Goddess Illustration and Artwork Collection" (AS-1204), Fujishima has an interview with the named spelled as Lind. This could be the "final say" on the matter, as he is the creator of the character. Can anyone verify this?
Evidence that the Spelling is LIND in Romajii
- The AMG TV anime credits the name is spelled as Lind.
- The SEGA Dreamcast Quiz game also indicates that the name is spelled Lind.
- Two AMG artbooks since 2002 state the name is spelled as Lind.
- The character's voice actor signs "in character" as Lind in Romaji.
Evidence that the Spelling is RIND in Correct Romanisation
- Katakana romanisation charts. These charts are officially sanctioned by the Japanese government, and have been the primary method for translation from Japanese text to Romanised text for years.
- The original Norse name, from which the character is obviously derived, is 'Rind'
Using written kanji as support for one spelling over another, especially going by audible pronounciation is totally inconclusive. The spoken 'Ri' and 'Li' syllable actually lies between the two, and is strictly speaking neither.
Conclusion
While I see the point of romanisation, on the official japanese Oh My Goddess! website she apears as "Lind". It REALLY doesnt matter as Ri and Li is pronounced the same. Its Belldandy not Berudandi (even though thats how it sounds). ;) -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 18:15, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
- What does matter is uniformity: this article currently uses both forms. Could one or the other be agreeded upon until such time as Dark Horse make a decission for us? Elric of Grans 01:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- What Dark Horse claims doesn't really matter, due to the whole Welsper/Velsper thing. Fujishima had already made an official English spelling, yet the opt to ignore him and do what they wanted. It's no different than if the Japanese distributor of Star Wars, renamed Darth Vader into "That Guy in Black Armor with a Breathing Problem".
- Long story short, all the OFFICIAL Japanese sites spell it LIND. Until someone can find something out right saying Fujishima wants is spelled with an "R", overwhelming evidence points that its spelled with an "L". It also appears that Fujishima was interviewed claiming he spells it Lind (see above). For time being, let's be adults about this, and leave as Lind until more SOLID support for Rind can be proven.
- I am well aware of that, and indeed Fujishima first used the Lind spelling around three years back (which is what I always use) --- if you are particularly interested, I can search through my books to find the exact location, and therefore date. However, the standard policy on Wikipedia is to use the spelling as seen in the English version, even if it is different from the original --- even if it is dramatically different! As such, the way Dark Horse spell it will be considered the official spelling in English sources, even if it is obviously wrong. Elric of Grans 22:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- I second that thesis, the spelling should be reverted back to Rind to avoid confusing the English version readers. - MegamanZero 0:37 5,December 2005 (UTC)
- How does Lind confuse them? Fantranslated episodes spell it Lind, as does the English parts of the Japanese site. I say leave it the way Fujishima (the CREATOR of the character) wants it spelled, unless Dark Horse somehow screws that up.
- This problem would have been solved if the name of the 5th Goddess was written in English in the manga itself, which is obviously the source of AMG canon. Unfortunately, this is not the case if we're talking within the manga content per se. In the tankoubons, the Romanized name was spelled out in volume 24 as Rind in one extra page at the back. However later on, in one inside flap of volume 26, it was Romanized as Lind. Thus even with sources closest to canon, there is no consensus. Personally I have a nagging suspicion that a firm, definite translation was not defined by Kosuke Fujishima when he created the character. If this was the case, then the publishers wouldn't have flip-flopped from one spelling to the next. --
Peorthmegami 00:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah... Hmm... Gah... So its a no concensus. We may stick with the norse Rind then? Not sure what to do... --
Cat
out 03:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Though my personal preference has always been Rind, let's avoid stirring up the hornet's nest again. Maybe new evidence will come up later on, and then we can decide which is actually the correct spelling. --
Peorthmegami 21:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Fine with me. :) --
Cat
out 23:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, it all seems to make sense to me from a "sideline" point of view. Fujishima seems to have wanted Rind, then for reasons only he might know, picked Lind. I've seen REALLY EARLY stuff spell the goddess name as Rind, but as of late, everything points to Lind. There's more "L" than "R" in Japan: the toy and resin figures for the character spell it Lind, the official Japanese anime site spells it Lind, and the most recent artbooks spell it Lind. Of course, in the US this is all moot given how Dark Horse name is what sticks for English readers (Welsper/Vesper anyone).
- Fine with me. :) --
Cat
out 23:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Though my personal preference has always been Rind, let's avoid stirring up the hornet's nest again. Maybe new evidence will come up later on, and then we can decide which is actually the correct spelling. --
Peorthmegami 21:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah... Hmm... Gah... So its a no concensus. We may stick with the norse Rind then? Not sure what to do... --
Cat
out 03:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
From what I have read in the manga, it should be that all Valkyries have single winged angels and was artificially made that way. I will check on more sources before I make any edits to the article. MythSearcher 08:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
- Er, it clearly says in the manga that a one-winged angel was an extreme abnormality. Indeed, it would not make much sense her being known as 'One-Winged Lind' if all Valkyries had one-winged angels. Only Lind has a one-winged angel, and this is likely linked to the fact she has twin angels (which is also unusual). Elric of Grans 22:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Am I the only one who thinks the following line reads wrong:
Lind is a Valkyrie, a member of the battle division and is responsible for fighting in the Market Share Battle between heaven and hell.
It sounds as if they are fighting The Battle of the Market Share (likened to The Battle of the Somme or similar). I cannot think of how best to reword this, but it is worth bringing to people's attention as a misleading statement. Elric of Grans 05:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- Actually, that line is incorrect. In the manga (which is canon), the Valkyries were never mentioned as being involved in the 'Market Share Battle' (the battle or contest between the Gods and Demons on who can make more contracts with humans). The Valkyries were simply mentioned to form the combat division of Heaven, the closest analogy of which is the military of an Earth nation. The 'Market Share Battle' as presented in the manga is mediated by 'commercial' goddesses like Belldandy and Peorth and presumably commercial demons like Mara (the commercial here refers to license, it means the goddess can form contracts/grant wishes). While the commercial goddesses and demons will inevitably have conflict during their line of work; any fight is necessarily non-fatal as dicatated by the Doublet Law. The Market Share Battle is implied to be more of jockeying for advantageous positions over the other party (best exemplified by Mara); in this regard the Valkyries have no place in the conflict. I have consequently edited the entry to remove the error. -- Peorthmegami 23:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
What's the mythological analog for Lind?
- The presumed analogy for 'Lind' is a giantess from Norse mythology named Rindr/Rind . She is best known for bearing Odin's child Vali, born specifically to avenge the death of Balder. For greater detail you can check out her Wiki entry under the keyword Rindr. During the course of my research on her character, I came upon some entries that say she was sometimes regarded as the primal goddess of the frozen Earth. Thus it might not be a coincidence that Kosuke Fujishima portrayed her as having ice magic. -- Peorthmegami 23:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
|
| This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
Alright... here we go again with beating a dead horse... I just removed this entry from the trivia section:
- However, even if anime sources name her "Lind", in volume 24, page 158 of the Japanese original Kodansha edition (where the character first appears), her name is clearly stated as being "Rind".
Now then. Let's start off with some facts. #1: Lind's first appearance was the Dreamcast AMG quiz game; not the manga. #2: ONLY that page (and direct recycles of it) has ever spelled Lind's name with an "R" instead of an "L" in the entire catalog of AMG. #3: As mentioned endlessly, over and over again in other discussions, everything else (including sketch artwork from Fujishima - THE CREATOR) has the name spelled as Lind and not Rind. #4: The Dark Horse has accepted the Lind translation for their translated publication.
Doing some common sense in the matter, and give how easily the Japanese get the L and R things mixed up - and the fact that Kodasha has done typo's in the past with their own native Japanese (kanji mix ups mostly) - the Rind spelling was most likely a typo. Everything points AGAINST the name being spelled as Rind. The trivia entry removed seems to try and contradict the previous entry in justifying that Rind is correct. It is not correct. Lind is correct. Rind is fannon and at best mistranslation. Maybe it's the wording or something... I don't know...
This whole Rind VS Lind thing is getting old... the Japanese never had a problem with it, and the endless argument should have ended with Dark Horse's final judgment in the matter. Come on people... get over it already. To sate the other side, I will see about reentering the removed statement in a less "poisoning" manner - unless someone else beats me too it.
- There... I modified the original Trivia entry to make mention of the "proof that Rind is correct spelling" in it. Still... it sounds poisoning against Rind... Then again, Rind isn't correct, so I suppose there's no reason to try and make it sound correct either. Please discuss and enlighten me if I'm wrong...
Well it's official. Dark Horse spells the goddess's name as Lind. So does the anime. So does the SEGA Dreamcast game. So does the official artbooks in Japan (thus so does Fujishima, the character's creator). Now, at the expense of beating a dead horse, should we remove that "Rind" from the first paragraph of the article? Spelling is Lind according to all the OFFICIAL sources. To be blunt: Rind is a fandom name. Belldandy is spelled Belldandy... not Verthandi. Lind is spelled Lind... not Rind.
- If on top of the Belldandy page we have the disamb sentence, I see no reason in deleting that disamb here. Just get rid of all the other Rinds on the page. MythSearcher talk 03:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
According to the "Ah! My Goddess Collection" (a 15th anniversary reference book) and dustjacket illustrations from the graphic novels, "Rindo" should be romanised as "Lind."
- However, that is a Japanese publication. Until either Dark Horse comics (North American distributor of the manga) or Media Blasters (North American distributor of the television series, only animation of A!MG that Rind is actually in) give evidence that Rind's name is really supposed to be Lind, leaving it as Rind is fine. Remember that the "l" and "r" sounds are interchangeable in Japanese, which is why if you listen to the Japanese dub of Ranma for example, it sounds like a lot of characters are calling him, "Lanma". - Js2756 13:09, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
Fujishima Kosuke says its LIND in Romajii
- I was recently informed that within the artbook "Ah! My Goddess Illustration and Artwork Collection" (AS-1204), Fujishima has an interview with the named spelled as Lind. This could be the "final say" on the matter, as he is the creator of the character. Can anyone verify this?
Evidence that the Spelling is LIND in Romajii
- The AMG TV anime credits the name is spelled as Lind.
- The SEGA Dreamcast Quiz game also indicates that the name is spelled Lind.
- Two AMG artbooks since 2002 state the name is spelled as Lind.
- The character's voice actor signs "in character" as Lind in Romaji.
Evidence that the Spelling is RIND in Correct Romanisation
- Katakana romanisation charts. These charts are officially sanctioned by the Japanese government, and have been the primary method for translation from Japanese text to Romanised text for years.
- The original Norse name, from which the character is obviously derived, is 'Rind'
Using written kanji as support for one spelling over another, especially going by audible pronounciation is totally inconclusive. The spoken 'Ri' and 'Li' syllable actually lies between the two, and is strictly speaking neither.
Conclusion
While I see the point of romanisation, on the official japanese Oh My Goddess! website she apears as "Lind". It REALLY doesnt matter as Ri and Li is pronounced the same. Its Belldandy not Berudandi (even though thats how it sounds). ;) -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 18:15, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
- What does matter is uniformity: this article currently uses both forms. Could one or the other be agreeded upon until such time as Dark Horse make a decission for us? Elric of Grans 01:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- What Dark Horse claims doesn't really matter, due to the whole Welsper/Velsper thing. Fujishima had already made an official English spelling, yet the opt to ignore him and do what they wanted. It's no different than if the Japanese distributor of Star Wars, renamed Darth Vader into "That Guy in Black Armor with a Breathing Problem".
- Long story short, all the OFFICIAL Japanese sites spell it LIND. Until someone can find something out right saying Fujishima wants is spelled with an "R", overwhelming evidence points that its spelled with an "L". It also appears that Fujishima was interviewed claiming he spells it Lind (see above). For time being, let's be adults about this, and leave as Lind until more SOLID support for Rind can be proven.
- I am well aware of that, and indeed Fujishima first used the Lind spelling around three years back (which is what I always use) --- if you are particularly interested, I can search through my books to find the exact location, and therefore date. However, the standard policy on Wikipedia is to use the spelling as seen in the English version, even if it is different from the original --- even if it is dramatically different! As such, the way Dark Horse spell it will be considered the official spelling in English sources, even if it is obviously wrong. Elric of Grans 22:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- I second that thesis, the spelling should be reverted back to Rind to avoid confusing the English version readers. - MegamanZero 0:37 5,December 2005 (UTC)
- How does Lind confuse them? Fantranslated episodes spell it Lind, as does the English parts of the Japanese site. I say leave it the way Fujishima (the CREATOR of the character) wants it spelled, unless Dark Horse somehow screws that up.
- This problem would have been solved if the name of the 5th Goddess was written in English in the manga itself, which is obviously the source of AMG canon. Unfortunately, this is not the case if we're talking within the manga content per se. In the tankoubons, the Romanized name was spelled out in volume 24 as Rind in one extra page at the back. However later on, in one inside flap of volume 26, it was Romanized as Lind. Thus even with sources closest to canon, there is no consensus. Personally I have a nagging suspicion that a firm, definite translation was not defined by Kosuke Fujishima when he created the character. If this was the case, then the publishers wouldn't have flip-flopped from one spelling to the next. --
Peorthmegami 00:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah... Hmm... Gah... So its a no concensus. We may stick with the norse Rind then? Not sure what to do... --
Cat
out 03:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Though my personal preference has always been Rind, let's avoid stirring up the hornet's nest again. Maybe new evidence will come up later on, and then we can decide which is actually the correct spelling. --
Peorthmegami 21:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Fine with me. :) --
Cat
out 23:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, it all seems to make sense to me from a "sideline" point of view. Fujishima seems to have wanted Rind, then for reasons only he might know, picked Lind. I've seen REALLY EARLY stuff spell the goddess name as Rind, but as of late, everything points to Lind. There's more "L" than "R" in Japan: the toy and resin figures for the character spell it Lind, the official Japanese anime site spells it Lind, and the most recent artbooks spell it Lind. Of course, in the US this is all moot given how Dark Horse name is what sticks for English readers (Welsper/Vesper anyone).
- Fine with me. :) --
Cat
out 23:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Though my personal preference has always been Rind, let's avoid stirring up the hornet's nest again. Maybe new evidence will come up later on, and then we can decide which is actually the correct spelling. --
Peorthmegami 21:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah... Hmm... Gah... So its a no concensus. We may stick with the norse Rind then? Not sure what to do... --
Cat
out 03:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
From what I have read in the manga, it should be that all Valkyries have single winged angels and was artificially made that way. I will check on more sources before I make any edits to the article. MythSearcher 08:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
- Er, it clearly says in the manga that a one-winged angel was an extreme abnormality. Indeed, it would not make much sense her being known as 'One-Winged Lind' if all Valkyries had one-winged angels. Only Lind has a one-winged angel, and this is likely linked to the fact she has twin angels (which is also unusual). Elric of Grans 22:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Am I the only one who thinks the following line reads wrong:
Lind is a Valkyrie, a member of the battle division and is responsible for fighting in the Market Share Battle between heaven and hell.
It sounds as if they are fighting The Battle of the Market Share (likened to The Battle of the Somme or similar). I cannot think of how best to reword this, but it is worth bringing to people's attention as a misleading statement. Elric of Grans 05:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- Actually, that line is incorrect. In the manga (which is canon), the Valkyries were never mentioned as being involved in the 'Market Share Battle' (the battle or contest between the Gods and Demons on who can make more contracts with humans). The Valkyries were simply mentioned to form the combat division of Heaven, the closest analogy of which is the military of an Earth nation. The 'Market Share Battle' as presented in the manga is mediated by 'commercial' goddesses like Belldandy and Peorth and presumably commercial demons like Mara (the commercial here refers to license, it means the goddess can form contracts/grant wishes). While the commercial goddesses and demons will inevitably have conflict during their line of work; any fight is necessarily non-fatal as dicatated by the Doublet Law. The Market Share Battle is implied to be more of jockeying for advantageous positions over the other party (best exemplified by Mara); in this regard the Valkyries have no place in the conflict. I have consequently edited the entry to remove the error. -- Peorthmegami 23:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
What's the mythological analog for Lind?
- The presumed analogy for 'Lind' is a giantess from Norse mythology named Rindr/Rind . She is best known for bearing Odin's child Vali, born specifically to avenge the death of Balder. For greater detail you can check out her Wiki entry under the keyword Rindr. During the course of my research on her character, I came upon some entries that say she was sometimes regarded as the primal goddess of the frozen Earth. Thus it might not be a coincidence that Kosuke Fujishima portrayed her as having ice magic. -- Peorthmegami 23:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)