Lince (tank) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lince (tank) is part of the Spanish Tanks series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 28, 2010. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
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This review is transcluded from Talk:Lince (tank)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. I've given the article a thorough copyedit and left one comment below, but I am happy to pass this as a well-written and sourced article on an interesting minor military topic. Congratulations.-- Jackyd101 ( talk) 14:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Can someone explain why there was any effort to develop this tank? Considering it consisted mostly of L2 parts, what's the purpose of building a new tank? Was this a case of NIH? The article states that the Lince was slightly lighter than the L2 and slightly more mobile. However, the degree of both of these strikes me as very low. I really don't see how they expected it would be able to compete internationally with the L2, and given the L2's record of local production, I don't see much of a reason for it either. Maury ( talk) 21:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
(undent) Well I doubt I'll be able to add much, not speaking Spanish. But the L2 was already being sold to foreign armies as early as 1979 and deliveries were already made by the time the Lince project was reported to have started. So if there was some reason that they were not being sold to Spain, then that should be mentioned. Again, the project disappeared into history but the article doesn't mention any reason why, and I consider it incomplete for that reason. Maury ( talk) 14:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, the problem is Maury that your claims are largely unfounded and unsupported. You have a low opinion of the FAC process because it holds sourced statements over your theoritical opposition. The reasons why the tank was developed and the reasons for canceling the tank are explicitely stated in the article and sourced - I mean, you can continue to claim that this is just the 'best I can offer, but there is really more to it', but in the end these are just unfounded opinions. Furthermore, you need to stop taking comments out of context - the reasons for its coming into being are quite well stated in the article; mobility over Spanish terrain (even the current Leopard 2E is modified for Spanish terrain and there have been complaints about the tank's high weight), existing rail way restrictions (restrictions which are not only common to Spain - there were issues with train beds for Australian M1A1s, as well) and the vehicle's mobility in general. As the article states, the M1 and Valiant were actually not admitted because neither General Dynamics nor Vickers were willing to offer Spain the ability to produce these tanks indigenously (a clear requirement), and the Leclerc suffered the same issue until the French offered both indigenous production and the ability to export it without going through GIAT. To keep this short, I think that my sourced statements are more 'true' than your opinions based on just that - opinion. JonCatalán ( talk) 15:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Errors in the summary of today's or tomorrow's featured article Tomorrow's FA is a bit of a mess: was the Lince a programme, or a tank? Unrelated pronouns abound. The Lince did not receive Patton tanks during an assistance programme. Is "the program" in the fourth sentence the same program as that in the first sentence or in the second? Why is this European themed article using US English (program, focused, canceled, armor), with apparently no effort to use VNE? Kevin McE (talk) 11:15, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Good points; just looking at the lead, the tank itself is conflated with a program. It would be good to sort this before mainpage. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
The Lince was both a program and a tank. KM's tank prototype was the Lince, but it was also the name of the overall program. JonCatalán (Talk) 22:09, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
> The vehicle's size would also have been restricted by the Spanish rail and highway network. <
This sentence of the article makes no sense. Actually Spain has extremely wide railways (1688mm gauge), so their tank could be twice as large as the tanks of any other country, literally Maus size if desired! 87.97.104.143 ( talk) 20:33, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
"However, the French admitted that there would be restrictions placed on Empresa Nacional Santa Bárbara when it came to exporting the tank." - I don't think "came to exporting the tank" makes much sense, and in general the statement is pretty unclear, 12.69.234.130 ( talk) 20:41, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
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Lince (tank) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lince (tank) is part of the Spanish Tanks series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 28, 2010. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This review is transcluded from Talk:Lince (tank)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. I've given the article a thorough copyedit and left one comment below, but I am happy to pass this as a well-written and sourced article on an interesting minor military topic. Congratulations.-- Jackyd101 ( talk) 14:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Can someone explain why there was any effort to develop this tank? Considering it consisted mostly of L2 parts, what's the purpose of building a new tank? Was this a case of NIH? The article states that the Lince was slightly lighter than the L2 and slightly more mobile. However, the degree of both of these strikes me as very low. I really don't see how they expected it would be able to compete internationally with the L2, and given the L2's record of local production, I don't see much of a reason for it either. Maury ( talk) 21:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
(undent) Well I doubt I'll be able to add much, not speaking Spanish. But the L2 was already being sold to foreign armies as early as 1979 and deliveries were already made by the time the Lince project was reported to have started. So if there was some reason that they were not being sold to Spain, then that should be mentioned. Again, the project disappeared into history but the article doesn't mention any reason why, and I consider it incomplete for that reason. Maury ( talk) 14:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, the problem is Maury that your claims are largely unfounded and unsupported. You have a low opinion of the FAC process because it holds sourced statements over your theoritical opposition. The reasons why the tank was developed and the reasons for canceling the tank are explicitely stated in the article and sourced - I mean, you can continue to claim that this is just the 'best I can offer, but there is really more to it', but in the end these are just unfounded opinions. Furthermore, you need to stop taking comments out of context - the reasons for its coming into being are quite well stated in the article; mobility over Spanish terrain (even the current Leopard 2E is modified for Spanish terrain and there have been complaints about the tank's high weight), existing rail way restrictions (restrictions which are not only common to Spain - there were issues with train beds for Australian M1A1s, as well) and the vehicle's mobility in general. As the article states, the M1 and Valiant were actually not admitted because neither General Dynamics nor Vickers were willing to offer Spain the ability to produce these tanks indigenously (a clear requirement), and the Leclerc suffered the same issue until the French offered both indigenous production and the ability to export it without going through GIAT. To keep this short, I think that my sourced statements are more 'true' than your opinions based on just that - opinion. JonCatalán ( talk) 15:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Errors in the summary of today's or tomorrow's featured article Tomorrow's FA is a bit of a mess: was the Lince a programme, or a tank? Unrelated pronouns abound. The Lince did not receive Patton tanks during an assistance programme. Is "the program" in the fourth sentence the same program as that in the first sentence or in the second? Why is this European themed article using US English (program, focused, canceled, armor), with apparently no effort to use VNE? Kevin McE (talk) 11:15, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Good points; just looking at the lead, the tank itself is conflated with a program. It would be good to sort this before mainpage. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
The Lince was both a program and a tank. KM's tank prototype was the Lince, but it was also the name of the overall program. JonCatalán (Talk) 22:09, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
> The vehicle's size would also have been restricted by the Spanish rail and highway network. <
This sentence of the article makes no sense. Actually Spain has extremely wide railways (1688mm gauge), so their tank could be twice as large as the tanks of any other country, literally Maus size if desired! 87.97.104.143 ( talk) 20:33, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
"However, the French admitted that there would be restrictions placed on Empresa Nacional Santa Bárbara when it came to exporting the tank." - I don't think "came to exporting the tank" makes much sense, and in general the statement is pretty unclear, 12.69.234.130 ( talk) 20:41, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Lince (tank). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:12, 30 September 2017 (UTC)