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Hello revmachine21 and thanks for the latest changes, this science stuff flies way over my head so I'm no good at explaining it to others. I think the article is deeper now. Would be funny to make this "featured article" quality considering the rarity of the phenomenon.
I received a reply from the head of the french scientist team at Lake Nyos. If you read the copyright notice on some of the photos, you'll notice they gave permission to use them. I will ask other members of their team if they are interested in contributing but first I would like to translate this text to french, this way they'll be more likely to contribute to either version. I am billingual (french-english) so I can update both articles once they are done.
Concerning the latest changes (scientific explanations), I think they should be placed carefully as to not overwhelm the readers with technical data in paragraphs that should be more introductive. I feel the intro paragraph has gotten a bit heavy, and some of its more technical terms could be included in a different one. Let me know what you think. Beltz
I will list things I think might be good to do. Let me know what you think about them, and propose some others as well! Beltz 16:11, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
It's a very large lake and there probably is enough data on it on the Internet to double or triple that section's size with useful facts. Random data about the lake would be detrimental to the article, but perhaps putting emphasis on the touristic sites and large population around it would be good. We can also probably give a more detailed explanation of how risky the situation was, due to earthquakes, volcanic activity, etc.
There is a ton of info on the french team's website, as well as other sites, on the techniques they use to degas the lake as well as their results. This is the section that lacks the most needed data in my opinion.
The effect should be zero, as the article pretty much states that normally, the degassing happens naturally in minute volumes the few (two?) lakes that seem not to be able to naturally degas themselves simply need assistance. My question is, if the water spout only needs to be primed, and is forceful enough to shoot as high as the picture leads one to believe that is it, can the water volume / force sufficient to power a generator? If so, could these remote locations benefit from this as a natural source of power? Hydroelectric w/o a dam... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.84.219 ( talk) 20:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Facts to verify: "Sample sediments from the lake were taken by Professor Robert Hecky from the University of Michigan which showed that an event caused living creatures in the lake to go extinct approximately every thousand years and caused vegetation nearby to be swept back into the lake."
Bob Hecky is a professor at the University of Waterloo. Perhaps, this work was done by George Kling from the University of Michigan.
This was taken from another wikipedia article. I've heard of his research but I don't know if he concluded that the extinctions happened every thousand years, or if it was an exageration from a wikipedian. It would be good to figure the accurate frequency of the disaster.
I feel those two have parts that should be swapped with each other... I'll work on this now and see what happens.
Dunno how to do the references, im throwing this here because it probably will need to be done.
(ok thanks-Beltz)
I'm writing this here because I plan to do it, perhaps next weekend. Beltz 16:11, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
According to the BBC special I saw, scientists first thought the deaths at both Manoun and Nyos were caused by volcanic outgassing. The appearance of the dead bodies led them to think of sulfur gas. However after evaluating the lakes' temperatures and not finding any evidence of volcanic eruption, they realized that the volcanic hypothesis was not likely. Only after discounting volcanic theories, did they start to begin the identification process for limnic eruptions.
The article should also explain how scientists identified a new type of event separate from a volcanic event. Revmachine21 06:51, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
References
hello, I would like to explain the few reverts I did today.
1- Removed link from "suffocation" article, in the first paragraph. I did this one because this link sent to an article on asphixia, which would be more apropriately placed later in the article, where we actually mention "death by asphixia".
2- Removed a link near the end to the "asphixia" article. It was the third link sending to the asphixia article. So as of now, there is still a single link to the asphixia article, in the "Occurences" paragraph. I think it's the most apropriate place to link (rather than linking from suffocates earlier) since the word asphixia is used in its usual context.
3- Removed a link to the "water" article. I dont think a link pertains to our article, as it isnt about reactions to water, or anything chemistry related. It is ecology related, but I dont think linking to "water" is necessary. If you disagree, please revert it back if you want, I dont mind it much, I just felt it was a bit out of place.
4- I think the "soda can" link should be removed. It links to "aluminium can", an article about how the cans are manufactured. The "beverage can" article might be more apropriate but I dont know if it's about carbonated drinks. If there was a "carbonated beverage" article, perhaps a link would work better.
bleh, that's all I had time to do today. I'll finish the french translation later this week. Beltz
The Lake Nyos article claims the victims exhibited not merely skin discoloration, but actual burns. Is this true? If so, could it be because of the temperature of the CO2.. Or does it rather lend credence to the acid theory? Anyway it should be explained, or the claim of burns removed from the Lake Nyos article. Zargulon 14:20, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
When travelling to Cameroon this topic came up in converation with graduates I was with and one person mentioned there was a conspiracy theory around the testing of chemical weapons (allowed) on behalf of other countries. His point of view was
Simply too many coincidences - as a neutral party with no biase I had to agree. -- Andbrew.downes ( talk) 05:40, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Could someone make this more specific? Recent as of when? When was it determined that volcanic eruptions were separate events? QmunkE 03:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The Biblical plagues of Egypt is the first recorded occurence of limnic eruption (blood water, frogs, boils, CO2 death). Evidence was presented in a recent documentary on the History channel called "Exodus Decoded" by Simcha Jacobovici. It should be noted in the historical section in some way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_Decoded. rjp2006 Aug 21, 2006
Cleaned up and added some information on the degassing experiments and proposals. If anyone knows what happened to the project reported in New Scientist in Jan 2003, please add to this. 165.222.186.195 11:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Why not use the syphon to generate electricity and sell that to defray the cost?
"Why not use the syphon to generate electricity and sell that to defray the cost?" Research would be needed but I remeber something of an energy contract from the Rwandan government for the extraction of methane (something like 55 billion cubic meters I think). If the projects were decreasing the kinetic energy of the water through syphoning the amount of water and CO2 being pulled from the bottom would decrease. However slight this would be, as noted on the project site at the University of Michigan's site the CO2 is not currently being pulled out fast enough as is. You do have a point though in that myabe if the costs were deferred then more projects could be put in place.
We have two articles, Limnological catastrophe with Limnic eruption, on the same topic. This resulted from the translation of the Russian article to English with a less than comprehensive reserch on the existing literature. Recommend merging. Comments? Williamborg (Bill) 19:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Can organic matter alone cause an eruption? -- Gbleem 03:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I think an "up to date" version of the broken link about the equadorian lake mentioned above would be [4]. It's a little bit down the page. 65.93.25.29 00:15, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Generally, phenomena such as limnic eruptions are initially natural hazards, especially if there are no recorded loss of life afterwards; In addition, I can see plant life benefit from limnic eruptions (see photosynthesis)-- IViking ( talk) 15:32, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
I got to this article by running a Google search for the term "lake overturn", which I encountered at http://rcse.edu.shiga-u.ac.jp/gov-pro/plan/2008list/06-020605.pdf -- an article which says Tadlac Lake in Los Baños, Laguna in the Philippines undergoes an annual lake overturn. The phenomenon they describe, however, apparently impacts only the fish population. I'd like to request a clarification, please. At what point does a lake's sudden release of Carbon Dioxide gas qualify as a 'lake overturn'? If the Tadlac lake events qualify, then the statement 'To date, this phenomenon has been observed only twice' would no longer be true, and I these events should be mentioned in this article as well. On the other hand, this could simply be a misappropriation of the term, so I'd like to seek a clarification before I do any editing. - Alternativity ( talk) 13:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
The explosion of carbon dioxide (CO2) below the bottom of lakes. Periodic temperature changes on the surface of the reservoir can be cause "water's overturn" in ponds, lakes and reservoirs, as well as in relatively deep bays of rivers, which have little or no have flow and are not exposed to the winds. During the "water's overturn", takes place a complete mixing of the deeper and more superficial layers of water, which radically changes the living conditions of aquatic creatures. Not always, but usually the bottom layers of water have many hydrogen sulfide, CO2 and other toxic gases to fish , resulting from the decomposition of organic bottom sediments. With stirring, hydrogen sulfide, CO2 and other toxic gases from the bottom water layers distributes throughout the volume of water and can kill fish and other aquatic creatures. Such an "water's overturn" likely takes place in Tadlac Lake. A clarification of your question (that «... this phenomenon has been observed only twice ... at Lake Monoun ... and at Lake Nyos ...») is such - in these lakes "water's overturn" was not caused by temperature changes in the waters of lakes, but in these lakes "water's overturn" was caused by the explosion of CO2 below the bottom of lakes. Catastrophes on lake "MONOUN" in 1984 and on lake "NYOS" in 1986 were caused by the instantaneous ejections of the gaseous carbon dioxide from the hard sediment stratums under the lake's bottom, which located at some tens of meters below the lake's bottom. Catastrophes on lake "MONOUN" in 1984 and on lake "NYOS" in 1986 is a rare type of natural disaster, which caused by the explosion of carbon dioxide (CO2) below the bottom of lakes: http://nyos.lv/en/nyos/mehanika-vkljuchenija-spuskovogo-mehanizma-31859 http://nyos.lv/en/nyos/osobennostj-atmosfernyh-osadkov----v-okrestnostjah-ozjor-nyos-i-monoun-32225 http://nyos.lv/en/nyos/nios-limnologicheskaja-katastrofa-32235 188.112.170.48 ( talk) 17:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I wish success in editing of this tangled article. 188.112.170.48 ( talk) 14:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
188.112.170.48 ( talk) 22:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
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At some point, a Wikipedian ought update this page with more recent academic information. Found a great resource. Bookmarking here for later work.
http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globalchange1/current/lectures/kling/killer_lakes/killer_lakes.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.155.94 ( talk) 05:41, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Limnic eruption article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that a geological diagram or diagrams be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Specific illustrations, plots or diagrams can be requested at the
Graphic Lab. For more information, refer to discussion on this page and/or the listing at Wikipedia:Requested images. |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mmcca44. Peer reviewers: Catcmckinney.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 02:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello revmachine21 and thanks for the latest changes, this science stuff flies way over my head so I'm no good at explaining it to others. I think the article is deeper now. Would be funny to make this "featured article" quality considering the rarity of the phenomenon.
I received a reply from the head of the french scientist team at Lake Nyos. If you read the copyright notice on some of the photos, you'll notice they gave permission to use them. I will ask other members of their team if they are interested in contributing but first I would like to translate this text to french, this way they'll be more likely to contribute to either version. I am billingual (french-english) so I can update both articles once they are done.
Concerning the latest changes (scientific explanations), I think they should be placed carefully as to not overwhelm the readers with technical data in paragraphs that should be more introductive. I feel the intro paragraph has gotten a bit heavy, and some of its more technical terms could be included in a different one. Let me know what you think. Beltz
I will list things I think might be good to do. Let me know what you think about them, and propose some others as well! Beltz 16:11, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
It's a very large lake and there probably is enough data on it on the Internet to double or triple that section's size with useful facts. Random data about the lake would be detrimental to the article, but perhaps putting emphasis on the touristic sites and large population around it would be good. We can also probably give a more detailed explanation of how risky the situation was, due to earthquakes, volcanic activity, etc.
There is a ton of info on the french team's website, as well as other sites, on the techniques they use to degas the lake as well as their results. This is the section that lacks the most needed data in my opinion.
The effect should be zero, as the article pretty much states that normally, the degassing happens naturally in minute volumes the few (two?) lakes that seem not to be able to naturally degas themselves simply need assistance. My question is, if the water spout only needs to be primed, and is forceful enough to shoot as high as the picture leads one to believe that is it, can the water volume / force sufficient to power a generator? If so, could these remote locations benefit from this as a natural source of power? Hydroelectric w/o a dam... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.128.84.219 ( talk) 20:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Facts to verify: "Sample sediments from the lake were taken by Professor Robert Hecky from the University of Michigan which showed that an event caused living creatures in the lake to go extinct approximately every thousand years and caused vegetation nearby to be swept back into the lake."
Bob Hecky is a professor at the University of Waterloo. Perhaps, this work was done by George Kling from the University of Michigan.
This was taken from another wikipedia article. I've heard of his research but I don't know if he concluded that the extinctions happened every thousand years, or if it was an exageration from a wikipedian. It would be good to figure the accurate frequency of the disaster.
I feel those two have parts that should be swapped with each other... I'll work on this now and see what happens.
Dunno how to do the references, im throwing this here because it probably will need to be done.
(ok thanks-Beltz)
I'm writing this here because I plan to do it, perhaps next weekend. Beltz 16:11, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
According to the BBC special I saw, scientists first thought the deaths at both Manoun and Nyos were caused by volcanic outgassing. The appearance of the dead bodies led them to think of sulfur gas. However after evaluating the lakes' temperatures and not finding any evidence of volcanic eruption, they realized that the volcanic hypothesis was not likely. Only after discounting volcanic theories, did they start to begin the identification process for limnic eruptions.
The article should also explain how scientists identified a new type of event separate from a volcanic event. Revmachine21 06:51, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
References
hello, I would like to explain the few reverts I did today.
1- Removed link from "suffocation" article, in the first paragraph. I did this one because this link sent to an article on asphixia, which would be more apropriately placed later in the article, where we actually mention "death by asphixia".
2- Removed a link near the end to the "asphixia" article. It was the third link sending to the asphixia article. So as of now, there is still a single link to the asphixia article, in the "Occurences" paragraph. I think it's the most apropriate place to link (rather than linking from suffocates earlier) since the word asphixia is used in its usual context.
3- Removed a link to the "water" article. I dont think a link pertains to our article, as it isnt about reactions to water, or anything chemistry related. It is ecology related, but I dont think linking to "water" is necessary. If you disagree, please revert it back if you want, I dont mind it much, I just felt it was a bit out of place.
4- I think the "soda can" link should be removed. It links to "aluminium can", an article about how the cans are manufactured. The "beverage can" article might be more apropriate but I dont know if it's about carbonated drinks. If there was a "carbonated beverage" article, perhaps a link would work better.
bleh, that's all I had time to do today. I'll finish the french translation later this week. Beltz
The Lake Nyos article claims the victims exhibited not merely skin discoloration, but actual burns. Is this true? If so, could it be because of the temperature of the CO2.. Or does it rather lend credence to the acid theory? Anyway it should be explained, or the claim of burns removed from the Lake Nyos article. Zargulon 14:20, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
When travelling to Cameroon this topic came up in converation with graduates I was with and one person mentioned there was a conspiracy theory around the testing of chemical weapons (allowed) on behalf of other countries. His point of view was
Simply too many coincidences - as a neutral party with no biase I had to agree. -- Andbrew.downes ( talk) 05:40, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Could someone make this more specific? Recent as of when? When was it determined that volcanic eruptions were separate events? QmunkE 03:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The Biblical plagues of Egypt is the first recorded occurence of limnic eruption (blood water, frogs, boils, CO2 death). Evidence was presented in a recent documentary on the History channel called "Exodus Decoded" by Simcha Jacobovici. It should be noted in the historical section in some way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_Decoded. rjp2006 Aug 21, 2006
Cleaned up and added some information on the degassing experiments and proposals. If anyone knows what happened to the project reported in New Scientist in Jan 2003, please add to this. 165.222.186.195 11:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Why not use the syphon to generate electricity and sell that to defray the cost?
"Why not use the syphon to generate electricity and sell that to defray the cost?" Research would be needed but I remeber something of an energy contract from the Rwandan government for the extraction of methane (something like 55 billion cubic meters I think). If the projects were decreasing the kinetic energy of the water through syphoning the amount of water and CO2 being pulled from the bottom would decrease. However slight this would be, as noted on the project site at the University of Michigan's site the CO2 is not currently being pulled out fast enough as is. You do have a point though in that myabe if the costs were deferred then more projects could be put in place.
We have two articles, Limnological catastrophe with Limnic eruption, on the same topic. This resulted from the translation of the Russian article to English with a less than comprehensive reserch on the existing literature. Recommend merging. Comments? Williamborg (Bill) 19:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Can organic matter alone cause an eruption? -- Gbleem 03:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I think an "up to date" version of the broken link about the equadorian lake mentioned above would be [4]. It's a little bit down the page. 65.93.25.29 00:15, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Generally, phenomena such as limnic eruptions are initially natural hazards, especially if there are no recorded loss of life afterwards; In addition, I can see plant life benefit from limnic eruptions (see photosynthesis)-- IViking ( talk) 15:32, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
I got to this article by running a Google search for the term "lake overturn", which I encountered at http://rcse.edu.shiga-u.ac.jp/gov-pro/plan/2008list/06-020605.pdf -- an article which says Tadlac Lake in Los Baños, Laguna in the Philippines undergoes an annual lake overturn. The phenomenon they describe, however, apparently impacts only the fish population. I'd like to request a clarification, please. At what point does a lake's sudden release of Carbon Dioxide gas qualify as a 'lake overturn'? If the Tadlac lake events qualify, then the statement 'To date, this phenomenon has been observed only twice' would no longer be true, and I these events should be mentioned in this article as well. On the other hand, this could simply be a misappropriation of the term, so I'd like to seek a clarification before I do any editing. - Alternativity ( talk) 13:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
The explosion of carbon dioxide (CO2) below the bottom of lakes. Periodic temperature changes on the surface of the reservoir can be cause "water's overturn" in ponds, lakes and reservoirs, as well as in relatively deep bays of rivers, which have little or no have flow and are not exposed to the winds. During the "water's overturn", takes place a complete mixing of the deeper and more superficial layers of water, which radically changes the living conditions of aquatic creatures. Not always, but usually the bottom layers of water have many hydrogen sulfide, CO2 and other toxic gases to fish , resulting from the decomposition of organic bottom sediments. With stirring, hydrogen sulfide, CO2 and other toxic gases from the bottom water layers distributes throughout the volume of water and can kill fish and other aquatic creatures. Such an "water's overturn" likely takes place in Tadlac Lake. A clarification of your question (that «... this phenomenon has been observed only twice ... at Lake Monoun ... and at Lake Nyos ...») is such - in these lakes "water's overturn" was not caused by temperature changes in the waters of lakes, but in these lakes "water's overturn" was caused by the explosion of CO2 below the bottom of lakes. Catastrophes on lake "MONOUN" in 1984 and on lake "NYOS" in 1986 were caused by the instantaneous ejections of the gaseous carbon dioxide from the hard sediment stratums under the lake's bottom, which located at some tens of meters below the lake's bottom. Catastrophes on lake "MONOUN" in 1984 and on lake "NYOS" in 1986 is a rare type of natural disaster, which caused by the explosion of carbon dioxide (CO2) below the bottom of lakes: http://nyos.lv/en/nyos/mehanika-vkljuchenija-spuskovogo-mehanizma-31859 http://nyos.lv/en/nyos/osobennostj-atmosfernyh-osadkov----v-okrestnostjah-ozjor-nyos-i-monoun-32225 http://nyos.lv/en/nyos/nios-limnologicheskaja-katastrofa-32235 188.112.170.48 ( talk) 17:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I wish success in editing of this tangled article. 188.112.170.48 ( talk) 14:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
188.112.170.48 ( talk) 22:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:31, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
At some point, a Wikipedian ought update this page with more recent academic information. Found a great resource. Bookmarking here for later work.
http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globalchange1/current/lectures/kling/killer_lakes/killer_lakes.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.155.94 ( talk) 05:41, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)