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I agree with your assessment here: "I'd like to ban the word terrorist from every article except Terrorism,"
That's Zero's assesment. However although one can state some doubt whether groups such as the PLO and the Irgun are/were terrorist groups, it is generally accepted that Black September, Hamas, Lehi and other such groups are considered terrorist. I am willing to compromise. How about we term the act terrorist as opposed to the organization? Few can doubt the murder of innocent non-combatant athlete-civilians far from a region of conflict would qualify as terrorism. -Leumi
189.146.103.66 ( talk) 17:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I found this phrase to be a bit vague: "The Israeli government attempted to deny responsibility..." It seems that if the government was attempting to deny responsiblity then they were denying responsiblity, so the sentence should simply read "The Israeli government denied responsiblity..." If, however, the parts of the Israeli government were denying responsiblity and parts weren't, then this could be characterized as an attempt to deny responsibility, as the article says at present. This would require a little clarification, though, and I doubt its the case. -Infernallek
Why does this article even exist? It cites no sources whatsoever. 70.24.2.159 16:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
the leader of the assassins, managed to escape and was never extradited by Israel to face justice in Norway Justice is a bit emotive, would "trial" be better 195.92.40.49 15:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I beleive I saw somwhere that this event is known within the Mossad as Leyl-Ha-Mar which in Hebrew means Night of Bitterness and is a play on the name of the village Lillehammer. Should this be added in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.22.50 ( talk) 22:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there a source for the lawyer marrying one of the agents? Seems a bit odd to me.
Is now. A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The article says there were nine agents involved, but lists more than a dozen names. Which ones are the actual agents? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.178.138.64 ( talk) 01:16, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
203.59.84.61 ( talk) 07:05, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Looks like someone has proposed merging this with Ahmed Bouchiki but has not opened the discussion, so I'll do it:
The article does not mention that 5 of the agents were convicted by Norwegian coutrs to several years of prison. As far as I know they were convicted for murder. -- 188.103.196.98 ( talk) 14:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
I have amended this, and they were not convicted of murder, but complicity in the killing. A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:30, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The 10min radio article available indefinitely as a podcast cleared up a number of minor queries on this talk page so I updated the Article to reflect that. One problem is I can't get the References/Citations to number properly, the clipboard labelled "Named references" doesn't appear to be working properly for me. Anybody able to tidy up that for me? Much appreciated thanks A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:26, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry again. Second sentence on third para of History , "The information provided to the Norwegian Secret Service by the captured agents was rapidly shared with its European counterparts." could have a reference from Chapter 18 of the "External Link; Further names of individuals involved in the affair". Is this a reliable text? or is it somebodys school homework...Any idea? Thanks A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The introduction refers to "an innocent Moroccan waiter", and states that six of the Mossad team of fifteen were captured and convicted of complicity in the killing by the Norwegian justice system". I suggest that there are three issues with these statements.
First the reference to an "innocent" waiter. The implication is that if it had been the intended target the murder would have been ok. The reality is that assassination is murder, and illegal under Norwegian and Israeli law. It did not matter whether they killed the wrong person or not. They killed someone, and got caught.
Secondly the agents were not captured by "the Norwegian justice system". They were captured by police.
Thirdly, the agents were convicted by a court of law, not a "system". Royalcourtier ( talk) 02:55, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
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Doesn't it sound more natural than "complicity" ? 85.193.228.103 ( talk) 12:51, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Why is the agent's gender relevant here?
Dan Arbel disputes the account of events presented in this article. Notably, he said that multiple agents had warned Hameiri that Bouchikhi bore no resemblance to Salameh but he insisted on going ahead with the operation anyway. He also states that he had been informed that the Norwegians were cooperating with the Mossad, and that he had revealed the Mossad's involvement because he was certain he would be immediately released.
Can someone put this information into the article? It is on protected status and i am unable to edit the article. Question2005 ( talk) 07:57, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
The opening sentence is a bit complex in my opinion. Currently it is
> The Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken) was the murder of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, by Mossad agents in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.
or
> The Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken) was the murder by Mossad agents of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.
Perhaps removing one layer of passive voice would be helpful here, something like
> Mossad agents murdered Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973 in what is known as the Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken). Phiarc ( talk) 11:23, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lillehammer affair article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 21, 2013, July 21, 2018, and July 21, 2019. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
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I agree with your assessment here: "I'd like to ban the word terrorist from every article except Terrorism,"
That's Zero's assesment. However although one can state some doubt whether groups such as the PLO and the Irgun are/were terrorist groups, it is generally accepted that Black September, Hamas, Lehi and other such groups are considered terrorist. I am willing to compromise. How about we term the act terrorist as opposed to the organization? Few can doubt the murder of innocent non-combatant athlete-civilians far from a region of conflict would qualify as terrorism. -Leumi
189.146.103.66 ( talk) 17:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I found this phrase to be a bit vague: "The Israeli government attempted to deny responsibility..." It seems that if the government was attempting to deny responsiblity then they were denying responsiblity, so the sentence should simply read "The Israeli government denied responsiblity..." If, however, the parts of the Israeli government were denying responsiblity and parts weren't, then this could be characterized as an attempt to deny responsibility, as the article says at present. This would require a little clarification, though, and I doubt its the case. -Infernallek
Why does this article even exist? It cites no sources whatsoever. 70.24.2.159 16:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
the leader of the assassins, managed to escape and was never extradited by Israel to face justice in Norway Justice is a bit emotive, would "trial" be better 195.92.40.49 15:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I beleive I saw somwhere that this event is known within the Mossad as Leyl-Ha-Mar which in Hebrew means Night of Bitterness and is a play on the name of the village Lillehammer. Should this be added in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.22.50 ( talk) 22:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there a source for the lawyer marrying one of the agents? Seems a bit odd to me.
Is now. A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The article says there were nine agents involved, but lists more than a dozen names. Which ones are the actual agents? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.178.138.64 ( talk) 01:16, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
203.59.84.61 ( talk) 07:05, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Looks like someone has proposed merging this with Ahmed Bouchiki but has not opened the discussion, so I'll do it:
The article does not mention that 5 of the agents were convicted by Norwegian coutrs to several years of prison. As far as I know they were convicted for murder. -- 188.103.196.98 ( talk) 14:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
I have amended this, and they were not convicted of murder, but complicity in the killing. A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:30, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The 10min radio article available indefinitely as a podcast cleared up a number of minor queries on this talk page so I updated the Article to reflect that. One problem is I can't get the References/Citations to number properly, the clipboard labelled "Named references" doesn't appear to be working properly for me. Anybody able to tidy up that for me? Much appreciated thanks A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:26, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry again. Second sentence on third para of History , "The information provided to the Norwegian Secret Service by the captured agents was rapidly shared with its European counterparts." could have a reference from Chapter 18 of the "External Link; Further names of individuals involved in the affair". Is this a reliable text? or is it somebodys school homework...Any idea? Thanks A Taxed Mind ( talk) 23:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The introduction refers to "an innocent Moroccan waiter", and states that six of the Mossad team of fifteen were captured and convicted of complicity in the killing by the Norwegian justice system". I suggest that there are three issues with these statements.
First the reference to an "innocent" waiter. The implication is that if it had been the intended target the murder would have been ok. The reality is that assassination is murder, and illegal under Norwegian and Israeli law. It did not matter whether they killed the wrong person or not. They killed someone, and got caught.
Secondly the agents were not captured by "the Norwegian justice system". They were captured by police.
Thirdly, the agents were convicted by a court of law, not a "system". Royalcourtier ( talk) 02:55, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Lillehammer affair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
Doesn't it sound more natural than "complicity" ? 85.193.228.103 ( talk) 12:51, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Why is the agent's gender relevant here?
Dan Arbel disputes the account of events presented in this article. Notably, he said that multiple agents had warned Hameiri that Bouchikhi bore no resemblance to Salameh but he insisted on going ahead with the operation anyway. He also states that he had been informed that the Norwegians were cooperating with the Mossad, and that he had revealed the Mossad's involvement because he was certain he would be immediately released.
Can someone put this information into the article? It is on protected status and i am unable to edit the article. Question2005 ( talk) 07:57, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
The opening sentence is a bit complex in my opinion. Currently it is
> The Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken) was the murder of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, by Mossad agents in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.
or
> The Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken) was the murder by Mossad agents of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.
Perhaps removing one layer of passive voice would be helpful here, something like
> Mossad agents murdered Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973 in what is known as the Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken). Phiarc ( talk) 11:23, 10 November 2023 (UTC)