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The article states that Thorpe's grandmother, Alma Thorpe, was one of the founders of the Victorian Aboriginal Health Service, citing the newspaper article: Greens MP Lidia Thorpe's long road from Nowa Nowa to Northcote, The Age, 19 November 2017. That statement may be inaccurate, however, since the newspaper article reads, Her grandmother, Alma Thorpe, set up the state's first Aboriginal health service. So which is it? One of the founders, or the (by implication, sole) founder? The article for Alma Thorpe (twice) states In 1973 Thorpe helped establish the Victorian Aboriginal Health Service (VAHS) but gives no inline reference for this statement. If Alma Thorpe was indeed one of the founders, as both Wikipedia articles state, we need a reliable source to that effect. But the Age article doesn't say that, so is not a good enough reference for this particular fact. But we may have a better one!
The article on Alma Thorpe is supported by a single reference to the inaugural Victorian Indigenous Honor Roll [1] – a state Government publication – which says, in part: In 1973, she helped establish the Victorian Aboriginal Health Service (VAHS) in an old building in Fitzroy’s Gertrude Street.... Its creation was significant. After decades of marginalisation and institutional neglect, Aboriginal people were taking charge of their own interests. This spirit of self-determination led to several other Aboriginal-run organisations being established, all underpinned by what Alma called a spirit of ‘independence, integrity and land rights’. Alma poured all her energy into the Health Service. As her fellow founder and mentor, Dr Bruce McGuiness, put it, “Without Alma Thorpe there wouldn’t have been a health service.” The Service aimed to provide quality health and dental care to the Aboriginal community. From one doctor and a committed group of volunteers, it has grown to employ many staff across several sites around Melbourne. For Alma, the role of the Service was as much social as it was medical. It brought people together and gave them a sense of belonging. It built an awareness of health issues in the community that had not been there before. There was also a welfare component to her work, as Alma would help the men who lived in the suburb’s parks apply for benefits. Alma set up many initiatives through an offshoot of the VAHS known as the Mother Service. These include the Yappera Children’s Service, which provides child care, and a youth club and gym opened in 1977. The latter is now known as Melbourne Aboriginal Youth Sport and Recreation (MAYSAR)... ...and quite a bit more. The Victorian Indigenous Honour Roll is quite clear in calling Dr Bruce McGuiness her "fellow founder", so I will use this to improve the inline sourcing of the article for Alma, as well as directly in this article for Lidia Thorpe. yoyo ( talk) 06:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
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The precedent for First Nations/Indigenous senators was that their nationality is not described as Australian, if they do not identify as such. Most news sources don't label Thorpe as Australian; instead labelling (if they do) their nationality as Gunnai-Gunditjmara [1]. As such, according to MOS:OPENPARABIO, we include the context of their nationality as Gunnai-Gunditjmara. Several editors have reverted this classification, and have edited the introduction of other Indigenous senators such as Pat Dodson to label their nationality as Australian. I'd like views from other editors to gain consensus of which option to choose, as to prevent an edit war. Catiline52 ( talk) 01:29, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Without the photos, one would assume on reading this article that Thorpe is of entirely Indigenous Australian ancestry. I mean, it's very obvious from her appearance that she is of mostly European descent, and yet the article ignores that in a sort of Emperor's New Clothes fashion. Has anyone written about this? Any newspaper source continues this bizarre charade. I understand the long history of abuse and exclusion, but this is supposed to be a repository of facts. is there any info out there on who her father was? Sheila1988 ( talk) 21:43, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
It's believed her father was of Scottish descent and her surname is British. Colliric ( talk) 03:51, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
I’ve just deleted the first sentence of the Early career section, which stated that she was managing director of Clan Corporation. Though this is stated in the Age citation, it cannot be true.
Clan Corporation was only ever a trading name of Lidia Thorpe. See https://abr.business.gov.au/AbnHistory/View/65868640208
So Clan Corporation was not a company, and this is confirmed by a Google search for “Clan Corporation Pty Ltd” - in parentheses. It gives no results. So she can never have been managing director of it. Whether there are any other RS’s saying she was MD of it is if no consequence, because it cannot possible be true. Wikipedia is not intended to carry untruths. Boscaswell talk 08:20, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Ivar, I really wouldn’t recommend it. The Herald Sun RS, used elsewhere in the article, https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/greens-northcote-candidate-reveals-abusive-relationship-led-to-her-bankruptcy/news-story/0b53d6f348de3f5aaf783cf11c816d42 said this on 26.9.2017 (my italics):
" Ms Thorpe recently set up another business, called Clan Corporation, which she described as “not very active at the moment”.
If elected next month, the Greens candidate said she would wind up that business altogether. "
She was discharged from bankruptcy in late 2016, so could not have traded legally until then. It was “not very active” in September 2017. Was she ever trading as Clan Corporation? We don’t know. We do know that it can only ever have been for a very short period. Boscaswell talk 10:21, 31 August 2021 (UTC).
Clan Corporation remains a current business name of Lydia Thorpe, suggesting the business is still operating in some form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.120.246 ( talk • contribs)
Somehow or other the "managing director" words have crept back in. This cannot be true - re-read this whole section to understand why. I am deleting the para. about it, because it is clear that Clan Corporation is not ongoing, was only ever very short-term if at all, and in any case she can never have been managing director of it as it was never a company. Boscaswell talk 10:28, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
The summary of the article reads "Her political persona is outspoken, unorthodox and confrontational." I question the neutrality and objectivity of the article by painting such a partial depiction of Lidia Thorpe in the summary. 58.178.253.53 ( talk) 12:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Agreed. Stephanie921 ( talk) 18:05, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
@ User:58.178.253.53 it has been excised Stephanie921 ( talk) 20:54, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
I will try to write this as NPOV as possible. @ Leontrooper There isn't any discussion here, it's pretty annoying to go sifting through edit summaries. If you have any problems with what I've written let me know. Poketama ( talk) 09:14, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
AlanTheScientist ( talk · contribs) wants to offer a third opinion. To assist with the process, editors are requested to summarize the dispute in a short sentence below.
Leontrooper added content to the lead about public criticism of Lidia Thorpe (BLP), I tried to clean up the phrasing of the overall lead and balance the criticism line to provide context, they have repeatedly reverted my edits without, I feel, constructive feedback.
Rather than having a lead stating 'controversy', we just have a section stating she is the Greens Minister for X (First Nations & Republic), and is known for being outspoken her opinions on Y (Opposition to the Voice, Republicanism). Wikipedia has recently tended to adding too many 'controversies' attached to contemporary politicians as a reductionist way of covering issues. We don't have Turnbull listed as controversial for advocating for a republic, or Abbott for keeping the crown. People who were historically seen as 'controversial' within the media such as Jim Cairns aren't listed as being controversial for opposing the Vietnam war. This article also needs significant improvement; we highlight 'criticism' in the introduction while not even mentioning her opposition to the Voice to Parliament.
Rather than wordsmith exact wordings, how about we start the final intro paragraph with something like "Thorpe campaigns on Indigenous and postcolonial issues" [3]. Follow with her views on the Voice and Republicanism, and then highlight how those views have been criticised (by who?). Catiline52 ( talk) 22:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Poketama's description of events is incomplete and partially incorrect.
My main point is that articles about controversial politicians should not create a false equivalence to give an illusion of neutrality. The main text should accurately reflect independent and reliable sources, the lead in turn should reflect that. "Controversy" is a difficult thing to deal with on Wikipedia, but it should not be deprecated completely. In any case there is no policy/community consensus to do so. Leontrooper ( talk) 09:23, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for summarising the two main opinions here! I've carefully read your summaries, the discussion above and the edits. Thanks all for engaging in a healthy debate and for your opinions, they all are very valid - and I guess that's why it's sometimes hard to find a consensus. There's a lot happening so forgive me if I forgot anything. I will let you find a consensus together, I'm just here to give you an external opinion. I tried to break down the issue:
My suggestion based on all this: if you feel like the 5 suggestions above are reasonable you could update the lead this way an then keep working on improving the article. Remember, a consensus is rarely perfect but allows us to move forward so we can all spend more time working on this article and other ones :) AlanTheScientist ( talk) 13:58, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Leon has pinged me to describe how I had issues with how the lead summised reaction to Thorpe's political views. When I edited the page to express my problems, Leon and I worked together to improve the morphology as much as possible via multiple revisions, which resulted in the current wording. I am going to share our teamwork for the sake of Alan and Poketama. But I am not stating my thoughts on the current dispute, since that would unfairly interfere as Alan has kindly offered to give a third opinion.
1. Diff 1: Special:Diff/1101911053 - @ User:58.178.253.53 writes that they question the neutrality of the article because of how that lead line portrayed Thorpe.
2. Diff 2: Special:Diff/1101963644 A few hours later, I - having not seen IP 58's talk message - remove the line because I have the same criticisms.
3. Diff 3: Special:Diff/1101964100: I respond to IP 58 on the talk page and tell them I agree.
4. Diff 4: Special:Diff/1101970306: Leon agrees that there were problems with their original wording. They reword the sentence and insert it back into the lead, saying it's important enough to be in the lead. They also think this version is an improvement cos it's sourced, unlike the original wording which had no references (although they were in the body).
5. Diff 5: Special:Diff/1101970978: I still have the same criticisms as last time, so I rephrase the sentence. However, I agree that it deserves to be in the lead.
6. Diff 6: Special:Diff/1101971983: I change "attracted" to "been the subject of" cos I think attracted isn't neutral.
7. Diff 7: Special:Diff/1101975510: Leon decides to expand the sentence for specificity in order to describe what Thorpe's political beliefs are. I send thanks to Leon three minutes later for this. Leon otherwise doesn't raise any issues with how the sentence is worded, and the phrasing is not changed by them, me, or anyone else.
8. Diff 8: Special:Diff/1101991084: I tell I.P. 58 that the original phrasing has been excised.
9. Diff 9: Special:Diff/1102011971: @ User:Laterthanyouthink removes the citations from the lead because they're unnecessary, and I send thanks to them for this Stephanie921 ( talk) 12:46, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
I am having a break from Wikipedia for the rest of the day so u can ping me and talk with me here but I won't respond till tomorrow Stephanie921 ( talk) 13:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for your contributions this has been very pleasant! Leontrooper thanks for sharing your POV, I think a lot of disputes come from trouble communicating so I'm happy to hear your feedback. I'm happy for us to implement Alan's points. I think that using Aboriginal vs Australian is quite tricky and honestly not worth fighting about atm, maybe a guidelines project for another time. I think they shouldn't be noted as Australian in the lead because they dont identify as such, but I'm happy for now to have that fact included in the body. Poketama ( talk) 22:40, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
She and many others burnt the Union Jack this month! Why is this not mentioned? 150.101.89.147 ( talk) 10:10, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
That's what she's known for, why isn't it mentioned in the article? Budgewoi ( talk) 11:07, 21 October 2022 (UTC) https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/leaked-email-reveals-greens-staffer-scared-and-in-shock-after-lidia-thorpe-s-truly-awful-outburst-20220905-p5bfdn.html
https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/09/28/greens-lidia-thorpe-bullying-allegations/ Budgewoi ( talk) 11:07, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I have removed Lidia in general is viewed as a divisive, extreme left socialist who is literally doing her best to divide a conquer using "sovereign nations" as feeble and almost laughable attempt to win herself popularity. But instead pretty much everyone cannot stand even the sight of her. She has and will not get anything done for her own people.
This is unsourced and must be removed under wp:BLP.
It was added by the same IP who added this similar material, also since removed, and has no other contributions. Andrewa ( talk) 14:27, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Not at all. You dismissed all of “the Murdoch media" as being in your opinion unreliable. I employed sarcasm in showing you why that view is unreasonable. If you wish to make confrontationally dismissive accusations like you did about "the Murdoch media", then you have no right at all to be upset when someone comes back to you to demolish your argument in a manner which you consider to be confrontational. Boscaswell talk 19:53, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Why is there no reference to her mental health issues and treatment? 171.255.77.83 ( talk) 04:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Good call with locking this page. As the referendum comes up this year this page will see more and more vandalism. Best to keep an eye on it. Poketama ( talk) 10:42, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm aware of the trend away from a reductionist 'controversies' section, however I believe at this point there is so much left uncaptured by this article that the neutrality is severely impacted. I understand many of her actions can and should be spoken to through a political lens, but some of the 'antics' for lack of a better term end up falling through the cracks when there is no political connection. I don't see how hurling racial abuse and threatening young people in front of a strip club at 3am because a group of black men had a white friend can be logically extrapolated from descriptions of her political slant. It doesn't fit under activism, where does it go? 111.220.140.142 ( talk) 04:18, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
There is going to continue to be additions on controversies that Thorpe is involved in. A pattern I've seen on this page is huge paragraphs written about one controversy with citations to one right-wing source. (especially Sky News). A few problems
You're gonna have to do better than this, this is a BLP and controversies are by their nature...controversial. If you can't write a balanced view of events because of lack of information, you can write a very basic neutral statement or leave it off. Poketama ( talk) 06:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Some politicians do their job by merely stating their preferred policy and debating it. At the other end of the spectrum, some politicians use controversy whenever they have the opportunity, to make their point, and somehow cannot help but be controversial. In either case, this is how they are. Most politicians fall in between these two extremes, but there are examples at both ends of the spectrum. I would be surprised if many considered the subject of this BLP to be within the two extremes. As such, if all the controversial actions were moved out of the political career section to the controversies section, would there be anything left? If someone uses controversy as a political tool, is description of that activity not best left in the political career section? When Lidia Thorpe marches in to the Senate with fist held high and head bowed, she is being controversial, but she is making a political statement. When Lidia Thorpe lays down on the road at Mardi Gras, she is being controversial, but she is making a political statement. Etc etc. Boscaswell talk 06:27, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Multiple news sources report that Lidia's father is Roy Illingworth. The Australian, Courier Mail, Herald Sun, Sky News, news.com.au, Northern Territory News. It is very unusual to list only her mother. When her father was deleted we even got left with a syntax error. "born to and Marjorie Thorpe". When can we name her father, what news sources are we waiting for? RustlingLeaves ( talk) 11:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Well done for standing your ground, RustlingLeaves. The words "most readers" don’t like it is an opinion, WP:DONTLIKEIT refers. I’ve had similar exchanges with the same editor. Boscaswell talk 06:11, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
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I work for Senator Lidia Thorpe. She has requested you please remove the link to the Official Website. She is no longer in the Greens Party. We will send link to new official website when it is online. Thanks, Joe Jsolidarity ( talk) 12:22, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Please remove the Greens party website link from the Official Website link. Senator Lidia Thorpe does not currently have an official website. We will share the new website with you once it is online. Thanks! Jsolidarity ( talk) 00:17, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
I recently added some citations and removed the citation needed tags that were no longer relevant. Can anyone work out why these were reverted? Burrobert ( talk) 13:44, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
This article [4] https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/lidia-thorpe-set-to-quit-politics-when-her-term-expires/b7k070prj dated 10th July 2023 quotes Thorpe saying that "50 next month", implying that she was born in August 1973. Currently her Wiki article only states that she was born in 1973. I do not know how to correctly edit birth years and months on Wikipedia articles – otherwise, I would have done so already. The expert on everything ( talk) 16:30, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Thorpe is often seen with a red, black and yellow flag, colors which are used on the flags of Belgium, Germany and probably other countries, plus other uses. If the flag can not be seen in full, it is hard to figure out what it is. Could someone please add that the flag used by her is the Australian Aboriginal Flag? "A horizontal bi-colour of black and red with a yellow disc in the centre". Thanks in advance. 217.250.226.64 ( talk) 00:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
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The article states that Thorpe's grandmother, Alma Thorpe, was one of the founders of the Victorian Aboriginal Health Service, citing the newspaper article: Greens MP Lidia Thorpe's long road from Nowa Nowa to Northcote, The Age, 19 November 2017. That statement may be inaccurate, however, since the newspaper article reads, Her grandmother, Alma Thorpe, set up the state's first Aboriginal health service. So which is it? One of the founders, or the (by implication, sole) founder? The article for Alma Thorpe (twice) states In 1973 Thorpe helped establish the Victorian Aboriginal Health Service (VAHS) but gives no inline reference for this statement. If Alma Thorpe was indeed one of the founders, as both Wikipedia articles state, we need a reliable source to that effect. But the Age article doesn't say that, so is not a good enough reference for this particular fact. But we may have a better one!
The article on Alma Thorpe is supported by a single reference to the inaugural Victorian Indigenous Honor Roll [1] – a state Government publication – which says, in part: In 1973, she helped establish the Victorian Aboriginal Health Service (VAHS) in an old building in Fitzroy’s Gertrude Street.... Its creation was significant. After decades of marginalisation and institutional neglect, Aboriginal people were taking charge of their own interests. This spirit of self-determination led to several other Aboriginal-run organisations being established, all underpinned by what Alma called a spirit of ‘independence, integrity and land rights’. Alma poured all her energy into the Health Service. As her fellow founder and mentor, Dr Bruce McGuiness, put it, “Without Alma Thorpe there wouldn’t have been a health service.” The Service aimed to provide quality health and dental care to the Aboriginal community. From one doctor and a committed group of volunteers, it has grown to employ many staff across several sites around Melbourne. For Alma, the role of the Service was as much social as it was medical. It brought people together and gave them a sense of belonging. It built an awareness of health issues in the community that had not been there before. There was also a welfare component to her work, as Alma would help the men who lived in the suburb’s parks apply for benefits. Alma set up many initiatives through an offshoot of the VAHS known as the Mother Service. These include the Yappera Children’s Service, which provides child care, and a youth club and gym opened in 1977. The latter is now known as Melbourne Aboriginal Youth Sport and Recreation (MAYSAR)... ...and quite a bit more. The Victorian Indigenous Honour Roll is quite clear in calling Dr Bruce McGuiness her "fellow founder", so I will use this to improve the inline sourcing of the article for Alma, as well as directly in this article for Lidia Thorpe. yoyo ( talk) 06:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
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The precedent for First Nations/Indigenous senators was that their nationality is not described as Australian, if they do not identify as such. Most news sources don't label Thorpe as Australian; instead labelling (if they do) their nationality as Gunnai-Gunditjmara [1]. As such, according to MOS:OPENPARABIO, we include the context of their nationality as Gunnai-Gunditjmara. Several editors have reverted this classification, and have edited the introduction of other Indigenous senators such as Pat Dodson to label their nationality as Australian. I'd like views from other editors to gain consensus of which option to choose, as to prevent an edit war. Catiline52 ( talk) 01:29, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Without the photos, one would assume on reading this article that Thorpe is of entirely Indigenous Australian ancestry. I mean, it's very obvious from her appearance that she is of mostly European descent, and yet the article ignores that in a sort of Emperor's New Clothes fashion. Has anyone written about this? Any newspaper source continues this bizarre charade. I understand the long history of abuse and exclusion, but this is supposed to be a repository of facts. is there any info out there on who her father was? Sheila1988 ( talk) 21:43, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
It's believed her father was of Scottish descent and her surname is British. Colliric ( talk) 03:51, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
I’ve just deleted the first sentence of the Early career section, which stated that she was managing director of Clan Corporation. Though this is stated in the Age citation, it cannot be true.
Clan Corporation was only ever a trading name of Lidia Thorpe. See https://abr.business.gov.au/AbnHistory/View/65868640208
So Clan Corporation was not a company, and this is confirmed by a Google search for “Clan Corporation Pty Ltd” - in parentheses. It gives no results. So she can never have been managing director of it. Whether there are any other RS’s saying she was MD of it is if no consequence, because it cannot possible be true. Wikipedia is not intended to carry untruths. Boscaswell talk 08:20, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Ivar, I really wouldn’t recommend it. The Herald Sun RS, used elsewhere in the article, https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/greens-northcote-candidate-reveals-abusive-relationship-led-to-her-bankruptcy/news-story/0b53d6f348de3f5aaf783cf11c816d42 said this on 26.9.2017 (my italics):
" Ms Thorpe recently set up another business, called Clan Corporation, which she described as “not very active at the moment”.
If elected next month, the Greens candidate said she would wind up that business altogether. "
She was discharged from bankruptcy in late 2016, so could not have traded legally until then. It was “not very active” in September 2017. Was she ever trading as Clan Corporation? We don’t know. We do know that it can only ever have been for a very short period. Boscaswell talk 10:21, 31 August 2021 (UTC).
Clan Corporation remains a current business name of Lydia Thorpe, suggesting the business is still operating in some form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.120.246 ( talk • contribs)
Somehow or other the "managing director" words have crept back in. This cannot be true - re-read this whole section to understand why. I am deleting the para. about it, because it is clear that Clan Corporation is not ongoing, was only ever very short-term if at all, and in any case she can never have been managing director of it as it was never a company. Boscaswell talk 10:28, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
The summary of the article reads "Her political persona is outspoken, unorthodox and confrontational." I question the neutrality and objectivity of the article by painting such a partial depiction of Lidia Thorpe in the summary. 58.178.253.53 ( talk) 12:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Agreed. Stephanie921 ( talk) 18:05, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
@ User:58.178.253.53 it has been excised Stephanie921 ( talk) 20:54, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
I will try to write this as NPOV as possible. @ Leontrooper There isn't any discussion here, it's pretty annoying to go sifting through edit summaries. If you have any problems with what I've written let me know. Poketama ( talk) 09:14, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
AlanTheScientist ( talk · contribs) wants to offer a third opinion. To assist with the process, editors are requested to summarize the dispute in a short sentence below.
Leontrooper added content to the lead about public criticism of Lidia Thorpe (BLP), I tried to clean up the phrasing of the overall lead and balance the criticism line to provide context, they have repeatedly reverted my edits without, I feel, constructive feedback.
Rather than having a lead stating 'controversy', we just have a section stating she is the Greens Minister for X (First Nations & Republic), and is known for being outspoken her opinions on Y (Opposition to the Voice, Republicanism). Wikipedia has recently tended to adding too many 'controversies' attached to contemporary politicians as a reductionist way of covering issues. We don't have Turnbull listed as controversial for advocating for a republic, or Abbott for keeping the crown. People who were historically seen as 'controversial' within the media such as Jim Cairns aren't listed as being controversial for opposing the Vietnam war. This article also needs significant improvement; we highlight 'criticism' in the introduction while not even mentioning her opposition to the Voice to Parliament.
Rather than wordsmith exact wordings, how about we start the final intro paragraph with something like "Thorpe campaigns on Indigenous and postcolonial issues" [3]. Follow with her views on the Voice and Republicanism, and then highlight how those views have been criticised (by who?). Catiline52 ( talk) 22:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Poketama's description of events is incomplete and partially incorrect.
My main point is that articles about controversial politicians should not create a false equivalence to give an illusion of neutrality. The main text should accurately reflect independent and reliable sources, the lead in turn should reflect that. "Controversy" is a difficult thing to deal with on Wikipedia, but it should not be deprecated completely. In any case there is no policy/community consensus to do so. Leontrooper ( talk) 09:23, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for summarising the two main opinions here! I've carefully read your summaries, the discussion above and the edits. Thanks all for engaging in a healthy debate and for your opinions, they all are very valid - and I guess that's why it's sometimes hard to find a consensus. There's a lot happening so forgive me if I forgot anything. I will let you find a consensus together, I'm just here to give you an external opinion. I tried to break down the issue:
My suggestion based on all this: if you feel like the 5 suggestions above are reasonable you could update the lead this way an then keep working on improving the article. Remember, a consensus is rarely perfect but allows us to move forward so we can all spend more time working on this article and other ones :) AlanTheScientist ( talk) 13:58, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Leon has pinged me to describe how I had issues with how the lead summised reaction to Thorpe's political views. When I edited the page to express my problems, Leon and I worked together to improve the morphology as much as possible via multiple revisions, which resulted in the current wording. I am going to share our teamwork for the sake of Alan and Poketama. But I am not stating my thoughts on the current dispute, since that would unfairly interfere as Alan has kindly offered to give a third opinion.
1. Diff 1: Special:Diff/1101911053 - @ User:58.178.253.53 writes that they question the neutrality of the article because of how that lead line portrayed Thorpe.
2. Diff 2: Special:Diff/1101963644 A few hours later, I - having not seen IP 58's talk message - remove the line because I have the same criticisms.
3. Diff 3: Special:Diff/1101964100: I respond to IP 58 on the talk page and tell them I agree.
4. Diff 4: Special:Diff/1101970306: Leon agrees that there were problems with their original wording. They reword the sentence and insert it back into the lead, saying it's important enough to be in the lead. They also think this version is an improvement cos it's sourced, unlike the original wording which had no references (although they were in the body).
5. Diff 5: Special:Diff/1101970978: I still have the same criticisms as last time, so I rephrase the sentence. However, I agree that it deserves to be in the lead.
6. Diff 6: Special:Diff/1101971983: I change "attracted" to "been the subject of" cos I think attracted isn't neutral.
7. Diff 7: Special:Diff/1101975510: Leon decides to expand the sentence for specificity in order to describe what Thorpe's political beliefs are. I send thanks to Leon three minutes later for this. Leon otherwise doesn't raise any issues with how the sentence is worded, and the phrasing is not changed by them, me, or anyone else.
8. Diff 8: Special:Diff/1101991084: I tell I.P. 58 that the original phrasing has been excised.
9. Diff 9: Special:Diff/1102011971: @ User:Laterthanyouthink removes the citations from the lead because they're unnecessary, and I send thanks to them for this Stephanie921 ( talk) 12:46, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
I am having a break from Wikipedia for the rest of the day so u can ping me and talk with me here but I won't respond till tomorrow Stephanie921 ( talk) 13:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for your contributions this has been very pleasant! Leontrooper thanks for sharing your POV, I think a lot of disputes come from trouble communicating so I'm happy to hear your feedback. I'm happy for us to implement Alan's points. I think that using Aboriginal vs Australian is quite tricky and honestly not worth fighting about atm, maybe a guidelines project for another time. I think they shouldn't be noted as Australian in the lead because they dont identify as such, but I'm happy for now to have that fact included in the body. Poketama ( talk) 22:40, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
She and many others burnt the Union Jack this month! Why is this not mentioned? 150.101.89.147 ( talk) 10:10, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
That's what she's known for, why isn't it mentioned in the article? Budgewoi ( talk) 11:07, 21 October 2022 (UTC) https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/leaked-email-reveals-greens-staffer-scared-and-in-shock-after-lidia-thorpe-s-truly-awful-outburst-20220905-p5bfdn.html
https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/09/28/greens-lidia-thorpe-bullying-allegations/ Budgewoi ( talk) 11:07, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I have removed Lidia in general is viewed as a divisive, extreme left socialist who is literally doing her best to divide a conquer using "sovereign nations" as feeble and almost laughable attempt to win herself popularity. But instead pretty much everyone cannot stand even the sight of her. She has and will not get anything done for her own people.
This is unsourced and must be removed under wp:BLP.
It was added by the same IP who added this similar material, also since removed, and has no other contributions. Andrewa ( talk) 14:27, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Not at all. You dismissed all of “the Murdoch media" as being in your opinion unreliable. I employed sarcasm in showing you why that view is unreasonable. If you wish to make confrontationally dismissive accusations like you did about "the Murdoch media", then you have no right at all to be upset when someone comes back to you to demolish your argument in a manner which you consider to be confrontational. Boscaswell talk 19:53, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Why is there no reference to her mental health issues and treatment? 171.255.77.83 ( talk) 04:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Good call with locking this page. As the referendum comes up this year this page will see more and more vandalism. Best to keep an eye on it. Poketama ( talk) 10:42, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
I'm aware of the trend away from a reductionist 'controversies' section, however I believe at this point there is so much left uncaptured by this article that the neutrality is severely impacted. I understand many of her actions can and should be spoken to through a political lens, but some of the 'antics' for lack of a better term end up falling through the cracks when there is no political connection. I don't see how hurling racial abuse and threatening young people in front of a strip club at 3am because a group of black men had a white friend can be logically extrapolated from descriptions of her political slant. It doesn't fit under activism, where does it go? 111.220.140.142 ( talk) 04:18, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
There is going to continue to be additions on controversies that Thorpe is involved in. A pattern I've seen on this page is huge paragraphs written about one controversy with citations to one right-wing source. (especially Sky News). A few problems
You're gonna have to do better than this, this is a BLP and controversies are by their nature...controversial. If you can't write a balanced view of events because of lack of information, you can write a very basic neutral statement or leave it off. Poketama ( talk) 06:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Some politicians do their job by merely stating their preferred policy and debating it. At the other end of the spectrum, some politicians use controversy whenever they have the opportunity, to make their point, and somehow cannot help but be controversial. In either case, this is how they are. Most politicians fall in between these two extremes, but there are examples at both ends of the spectrum. I would be surprised if many considered the subject of this BLP to be within the two extremes. As such, if all the controversial actions were moved out of the political career section to the controversies section, would there be anything left? If someone uses controversy as a political tool, is description of that activity not best left in the political career section? When Lidia Thorpe marches in to the Senate with fist held high and head bowed, she is being controversial, but she is making a political statement. When Lidia Thorpe lays down on the road at Mardi Gras, she is being controversial, but she is making a political statement. Etc etc. Boscaswell talk 06:27, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Multiple news sources report that Lidia's father is Roy Illingworth. The Australian, Courier Mail, Herald Sun, Sky News, news.com.au, Northern Territory News. It is very unusual to list only her mother. When her father was deleted we even got left with a syntax error. "born to and Marjorie Thorpe". When can we name her father, what news sources are we waiting for? RustlingLeaves ( talk) 11:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Well done for standing your ground, RustlingLeaves. The words "most readers" don’t like it is an opinion, WP:DONTLIKEIT refers. I’ve had similar exchanges with the same editor. Boscaswell talk 06:11, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
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I work for Senator Lidia Thorpe. She has requested you please remove the link to the Official Website. She is no longer in the Greens Party. We will send link to new official website when it is online. Thanks, Joe Jsolidarity ( talk) 12:22, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Please remove the Greens party website link from the Official Website link. Senator Lidia Thorpe does not currently have an official website. We will share the new website with you once it is online. Thanks! Jsolidarity ( talk) 00:17, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
I recently added some citations and removed the citation needed tags that were no longer relevant. Can anyone work out why these were reverted? Burrobert ( talk) 13:44, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
This article [4] https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/lidia-thorpe-set-to-quit-politics-when-her-term-expires/b7k070prj dated 10th July 2023 quotes Thorpe saying that "50 next month", implying that she was born in August 1973. Currently her Wiki article only states that she was born in 1973. I do not know how to correctly edit birth years and months on Wikipedia articles – otherwise, I would have done so already. The expert on everything ( talk) 16:30, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Thorpe is often seen with a red, black and yellow flag, colors which are used on the flags of Belgium, Germany and probably other countries, plus other uses. If the flag can not be seen in full, it is hard to figure out what it is. Could someone please add that the flag used by her is the Australian Aboriginal Flag? "A horizontal bi-colour of black and red with a yellow disc in the centre". Thanks in advance. 217.250.226.64 ( talk) 00:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)