This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lichess article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article was nominated for deletion on 19 November 2017. The result of the discussion was procedural close. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
Discussions:
|
Can some one update it to #1171? I can't change it because I'm still new to wikipedia and this page is semi-protected. Geekpotato24 ( talk) 15:51, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
A little late but I updated it to the current rank - Beeveria
There is no reason why the title of this page should be italicized. I don't know how to change it, so hopefully someone else does. FinalForm ( talk) 04:55, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Awesome! Thanks! FinalForm ( talk) 04:49, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
Hi fellows, I created a couple of userboxes for Lichess you can use here:
This user is a member of Lichess. |
This user plays on Lichess.org as {{{1}}}. |
IQ125 (
talk)
10:17, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
Can anyone make a new userbox using the new logo? Geekpotato24 ( talk) 15:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Therefore it should be deleted -- 76.210.190.130 ( talk) 19:26, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
I failed to see the point of this anon edit, so I undid it. Anon reverted it, calling my undo "disruptive editing". Anon, please explain how my undo was disruptive? - DVdm ( talk) 17:02, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
The consensus is that this article should not include a table of Lichess tournaments based on primary sources.
Looks like my removal of the giant table based on 0 independent reliable sources was undone. The only thing that should come from the site itself are the most basic facts. A tournament existing, or editor-determined criteria like "it has a prize" or "it had notable people participating" aren't reasons for including anything. We include aspects of a subject based on how well those aspects are covered in the body of reliable independent sources about the subject. In this case, that proportion is zero. Including a long list of tournaments just because they exist is WP:PROMO and WP:UNDUE. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 18:13, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
...So it's still growing. Do we really need an RfC to sort out basic wikipolicy? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 21:33, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
This article has long had a big table of "Lichess Titled Arena" tournaments/participants/results. It is sourced only to Lichess itself. I've twice removed it and was twice reverted (last time here). It's come to an RfC, I guess.
Should this article include a table of Lichess tournaments based on primary sources? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 02:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Information about past winners of Lichess Titled Arenas is no different than information about past winners of ordinary sporting events. Including the history of these tournaments hurts no one, and while a discussion was created on this topic, no substantial or thorough discussion was had. Removing the section about past winners helps no one-- the section clearly does not fall under the kind of misuse that WP:PROMO and WP:UNDUE were originally intended to address. Can further consideration please be put into this matter?
Almasudi896 ( talk) 16:01, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
To add to the discussion about whether or not results of titled arenas should be included, it is relevant to note that there is extensive coverage on Wikipedia of e.g. the 2018 Speed Chess Championship. Both events are covered exclusively on the respective chess websites hosting the events, both events include world class players, and the only difference I see is that the latter page may be considered more as promotional material due to the commercial nature of Chess.com. I do not see how keeping one page and removing the other is objectively fair.
And for those unaware of the online chess community, one should note that there is a lot of hostility between them, with one website often refusing to cover events from the other website (or even acknowledge the existence of the other website in the first place). The word "lichess" was banned from Chess.com at some point, and there have been fights between Chess.com and Chess24 over "rebranding" content as their own. [1] An event not being covered by other chess websites does not necessarily constitute "insignificance" of the event. Thijs Laarhoven ( talk) 13:31, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
Over time various people (presumably mostly new users) have proposed to add a list of titled arena winners to this page, with experienced users rolling back and undoing these edits, marking them as promotional content and primary-source only. An RfC was then held in March 2020 and closed after two members added their opinions, voting against adding such a list.
As stated above, even if the consensus remains that such events are not suitable for Wikipedia, I believe it is inconsistent to then allow for pages such as 2017 Speed Chess Championship and 2018 Speed Chess Championship to exist, with the former having 24 references out of which 24 are to Chess.com, and the latter having 25 out of which 23 are to Chess.com. So I believe the discussion should be reopened, if only to address this inconsistency.
As for the point raised in the previous RfC that this table would double the page length, again this equivalently applies to e.g. 2018 Speed Chess Championship, which is significantly longer than Chess.com.
Regarding external references, as mentioned in Lichess a.o. Forbes, Slate, and Der Spiegel have previously made note of the titled arenas and Carlsen's performance in these events, which suggests there is more interest in these results besides the Lichess community. Thijs Laarhoven ( talk) 22:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. No rationale provided and unanimous opposition, so speedy close. ( non-admin closure) SnowFire ( talk) 21:58, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Lichess → Lichess.org – Domain name visibility Hornbeel3 ( talk) 03:40, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lichess article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article was nominated for deletion on 19 November 2017. The result of the discussion was procedural close. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
Discussions:
|
Can some one update it to #1171? I can't change it because I'm still new to wikipedia and this page is semi-protected. Geekpotato24 ( talk) 15:51, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
A little late but I updated it to the current rank - Beeveria
There is no reason why the title of this page should be italicized. I don't know how to change it, so hopefully someone else does. FinalForm ( talk) 04:55, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Awesome! Thanks! FinalForm ( talk) 04:49, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
Hi fellows, I created a couple of userboxes for Lichess you can use here:
This user is a member of Lichess. |
This user plays on Lichess.org as {{{1}}}. |
IQ125 (
talk)
10:17, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
Can anyone make a new userbox using the new logo? Geekpotato24 ( talk) 15:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Therefore it should be deleted -- 76.210.190.130 ( talk) 19:26, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
I failed to see the point of this anon edit, so I undid it. Anon reverted it, calling my undo "disruptive editing". Anon, please explain how my undo was disruptive? - DVdm ( talk) 17:02, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
The consensus is that this article should not include a table of Lichess tournaments based on primary sources.
Looks like my removal of the giant table based on 0 independent reliable sources was undone. The only thing that should come from the site itself are the most basic facts. A tournament existing, or editor-determined criteria like "it has a prize" or "it had notable people participating" aren't reasons for including anything. We include aspects of a subject based on how well those aspects are covered in the body of reliable independent sources about the subject. In this case, that proportion is zero. Including a long list of tournaments just because they exist is WP:PROMO and WP:UNDUE. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 18:13, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
...So it's still growing. Do we really need an RfC to sort out basic wikipolicy? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 21:33, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
This article has long had a big table of "Lichess Titled Arena" tournaments/participants/results. It is sourced only to Lichess itself. I've twice removed it and was twice reverted (last time here). It's come to an RfC, I guess.
Should this article include a table of Lichess tournaments based on primary sources? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 02:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Information about past winners of Lichess Titled Arenas is no different than information about past winners of ordinary sporting events. Including the history of these tournaments hurts no one, and while a discussion was created on this topic, no substantial or thorough discussion was had. Removing the section about past winners helps no one-- the section clearly does not fall under the kind of misuse that WP:PROMO and WP:UNDUE were originally intended to address. Can further consideration please be put into this matter?
Almasudi896 ( talk) 16:01, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
To add to the discussion about whether or not results of titled arenas should be included, it is relevant to note that there is extensive coverage on Wikipedia of e.g. the 2018 Speed Chess Championship. Both events are covered exclusively on the respective chess websites hosting the events, both events include world class players, and the only difference I see is that the latter page may be considered more as promotional material due to the commercial nature of Chess.com. I do not see how keeping one page and removing the other is objectively fair.
And for those unaware of the online chess community, one should note that there is a lot of hostility between them, with one website often refusing to cover events from the other website (or even acknowledge the existence of the other website in the first place). The word "lichess" was banned from Chess.com at some point, and there have been fights between Chess.com and Chess24 over "rebranding" content as their own. [1] An event not being covered by other chess websites does not necessarily constitute "insignificance" of the event. Thijs Laarhoven ( talk) 13:31, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
Over time various people (presumably mostly new users) have proposed to add a list of titled arena winners to this page, with experienced users rolling back and undoing these edits, marking them as promotional content and primary-source only. An RfC was then held in March 2020 and closed after two members added their opinions, voting against adding such a list.
As stated above, even if the consensus remains that such events are not suitable for Wikipedia, I believe it is inconsistent to then allow for pages such as 2017 Speed Chess Championship and 2018 Speed Chess Championship to exist, with the former having 24 references out of which 24 are to Chess.com, and the latter having 25 out of which 23 are to Chess.com. So I believe the discussion should be reopened, if only to address this inconsistency.
As for the point raised in the previous RfC that this table would double the page length, again this equivalently applies to e.g. 2018 Speed Chess Championship, which is significantly longer than Chess.com.
Regarding external references, as mentioned in Lichess a.o. Forbes, Slate, and Der Spiegel have previously made note of the titled arenas and Carlsen's performance in these events, which suggests there is more interest in these results besides the Lichess community. Thijs Laarhoven ( talk) 22:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. No rationale provided and unanimous opposition, so speedy close. ( non-admin closure) SnowFire ( talk) 21:58, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Lichess → Lichess.org – Domain name visibility Hornbeel3 ( talk) 03:40, 27 March 2022 (UTC)