![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
pocadet@access995.com
I have done a bunch to this page today. Not really sure why. There are two reasonably decent references. Well, one is to the Embassy of France - they should know what they are talking about. The other is to an online history book that seemed pretty reasonable to me. I don't really like the formatting of the pictures, but so it goes. I may or may not bother to find some book references for some of this stuff. I also deleted a few things that seemed to have POV issues, or were just incorrect. -- Jvv62 17:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
This is the adagium of the French revolution in full. It is so said in the first chapter of the article (Origing): "slogan of the French Revolution was Liberté, égalité, fraternité, ou la mort! (Freedom, equality, brotherhood, or death!). This slogan outlived the revolution, and later became the rallying cry of activists, both militant and non-violent, who promote democracy or the overthrow of oppressive governments."
In the following analysis of the composing 4 parts, liberté, égalité, fraternité and ou la mort!, only the first 3 were analysed. The fourth was missing. I added it, the article in question that it links to proves it graphically what 'ou la mort!' meant: or death!. This is nothing of my own imagination, the historical facts are clear. NOT MENTIONING the fourth part, would be unscientific, ahistorical, und politically bias. Stijn Calle 13:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Since the article is primarily concerned with the current French slogan, 'ou la mort' is irrelevant. Also, in the ensuing discussion, Stijn cites an unrealistic death toll (most of the texts I have read question more than 30,000, including Republican losses putting down the Vendee). More importantly, it has been suggested that the slogan originated not in France, but in the Batavian Republic (the Netherlands), and as soon as I can dig out my books I will cite that as a possibility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cypher z ( talk • contribs) 23:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I rewrote a large part of the centre of the article "Liberty" "Equality "Fraternity" to be in proper English, so as not to read as though it had been translated from Babelfish. For example "devise" was translated as "currency", whereas in this sense it means "motto". Also, I do not think that Gauloises cigarettes ever had "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" on them. They only have "Liberté". -- tigrou36 12:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm moving this here. It may be interesting, but should first be sourced, and then correctly inserted in the main-text. Tazmaniacs ( talk) 14:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The third element of the motto of the Republic, "Fraternity" is defined in the Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man and the Citizen, which appeared in the preamble of the Consititution of 5th Fructidor Year III (22 August 1795) citation needed: “Do not do unto others what you would not have done to you; always show to others the good that you would have shown to you”. "Fraternity" was only added to the Motto of the Republic in 1848: Catholic deputies offered it as a compromise to prevent the proclamation of the right to employment.
According to Paul Thibaud, philosopher and former director of philosophical journal 'Esprit' [2], "Fraternity is as great an obligation to respect one's fellow man as Liberty and Equality are perceived as rights. It is thus a moral imperative." -Unsigned citation needed
It should be noted that "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" is the motto of European, continental Fraternity, as spoused from the Grand Orient de France and the Grand Lodges and Grand Orients in amity with it. At least I've used it in Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese Lodges. Bro. J.·. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.56.122 ( talk) 10:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
It allegedly became popular for devout revolutionaries to baptise their children not with Father, Son and Holy Spirit but with Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, the slogan of the French Revolution. This needs more research, especially since it implies that the motto makes reference to some occult masonic divinity. ADM ( talk) 10:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
To my understanding (please confirm):
In a sense that:
Like in the expression "my home is my castle", the private property defines the boundaries of landlords' liberty, but not of their freedom to travel on roads. Or, another example, the Segregation laws defined the respective liberties of the white and black people, but restricted black people freedom.
Therefore what should be the best word to use in the 4th Article:
or
Personally "Freedom" would sound more appropriate. Looking forward to your comments. -- Silwilhith ( talk) 02:34, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I am curious as to why in this paticular page we do not see the correct pronounciation of these words.
Not being French myself and having taken Spanish in High school, I have no clue as to the way the words should be spoken.
Why hasn't this page been done?
Personally, I do not do well with that kind of an edit on wiki, and would never be so presumptious as to try and figure out that which I have no idea how to interpret.
It's one thing to recognize the words I see written in French, or any language for that matter, its another thing to know how they are to be said.
Anyone able to set this in motion, please do so and thanks. Brattysoul ( talk) 01:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité? Jepumy ( talk) 12:45, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Liberté, égalité, fraternité → Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité – Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
The picture of the national motto of France is reversed! The text is right, however the colors are red / white / blue, where they should be blue / white / red, and the face is looking left whereas it should be looking th other side.
The right picture can be found on the French Wikipedia page: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Logo_de_la_R%C3%A9publique_fran%C3%A7aise_%281999%29.svg
Question: where does this defective picture come from, and how did it land here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.167.171.77 ( talk) 21:56, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
[1] what is a women's role in the brotherhood of man? How do men go about creating "brotherhood of man"? 50.249.93.181 ( talk) 14:16, 8 March 2016 (UTC)Rolande Shillingford
The link Fraternity currently redirects to is quite barren, and has been neglected for a while. Shouldn't it redirect to the much more detailed Wikitionary page of the same name? Johnaoss ( talk) 02:20, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
pocadet@access995.com
I have done a bunch to this page today. Not really sure why. There are two reasonably decent references. Well, one is to the Embassy of France - they should know what they are talking about. The other is to an online history book that seemed pretty reasonable to me. I don't really like the formatting of the pictures, but so it goes. I may or may not bother to find some book references for some of this stuff. I also deleted a few things that seemed to have POV issues, or were just incorrect. -- Jvv62 17:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
This is the adagium of the French revolution in full. It is so said in the first chapter of the article (Origing): "slogan of the French Revolution was Liberté, égalité, fraternité, ou la mort! (Freedom, equality, brotherhood, or death!). This slogan outlived the revolution, and later became the rallying cry of activists, both militant and non-violent, who promote democracy or the overthrow of oppressive governments."
In the following analysis of the composing 4 parts, liberté, égalité, fraternité and ou la mort!, only the first 3 were analysed. The fourth was missing. I added it, the article in question that it links to proves it graphically what 'ou la mort!' meant: or death!. This is nothing of my own imagination, the historical facts are clear. NOT MENTIONING the fourth part, would be unscientific, ahistorical, und politically bias. Stijn Calle 13:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Since the article is primarily concerned with the current French slogan, 'ou la mort' is irrelevant. Also, in the ensuing discussion, Stijn cites an unrealistic death toll (most of the texts I have read question more than 30,000, including Republican losses putting down the Vendee). More importantly, it has been suggested that the slogan originated not in France, but in the Batavian Republic (the Netherlands), and as soon as I can dig out my books I will cite that as a possibility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cypher z ( talk • contribs) 23:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I rewrote a large part of the centre of the article "Liberty" "Equality "Fraternity" to be in proper English, so as not to read as though it had been translated from Babelfish. For example "devise" was translated as "currency", whereas in this sense it means "motto". Also, I do not think that Gauloises cigarettes ever had "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" on them. They only have "Liberté". -- tigrou36 12:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm moving this here. It may be interesting, but should first be sourced, and then correctly inserted in the main-text. Tazmaniacs ( talk) 14:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The third element of the motto of the Republic, "Fraternity" is defined in the Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man and the Citizen, which appeared in the preamble of the Consititution of 5th Fructidor Year III (22 August 1795) citation needed: “Do not do unto others what you would not have done to you; always show to others the good that you would have shown to you”. "Fraternity" was only added to the Motto of the Republic in 1848: Catholic deputies offered it as a compromise to prevent the proclamation of the right to employment.
According to Paul Thibaud, philosopher and former director of philosophical journal 'Esprit' [2], "Fraternity is as great an obligation to respect one's fellow man as Liberty and Equality are perceived as rights. It is thus a moral imperative." -Unsigned citation needed
It should be noted that "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" is the motto of European, continental Fraternity, as spoused from the Grand Orient de France and the Grand Lodges and Grand Orients in amity with it. At least I've used it in Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese Lodges. Bro. J.·. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.56.122 ( talk) 10:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
It allegedly became popular for devout revolutionaries to baptise their children not with Father, Son and Holy Spirit but with Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, the slogan of the French Revolution. This needs more research, especially since it implies that the motto makes reference to some occult masonic divinity. ADM ( talk) 10:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
To my understanding (please confirm):
In a sense that:
Like in the expression "my home is my castle", the private property defines the boundaries of landlords' liberty, but not of their freedom to travel on roads. Or, another example, the Segregation laws defined the respective liberties of the white and black people, but restricted black people freedom.
Therefore what should be the best word to use in the 4th Article:
or
Personally "Freedom" would sound more appropriate. Looking forward to your comments. -- Silwilhith ( talk) 02:34, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I am curious as to why in this paticular page we do not see the correct pronounciation of these words.
Not being French myself and having taken Spanish in High school, I have no clue as to the way the words should be spoken.
Why hasn't this page been done?
Personally, I do not do well with that kind of an edit on wiki, and would never be so presumptious as to try and figure out that which I have no idea how to interpret.
It's one thing to recognize the words I see written in French, or any language for that matter, its another thing to know how they are to be said.
Anyone able to set this in motion, please do so and thanks. Brattysoul ( talk) 01:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité? Jepumy ( talk) 12:45, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Liberté, égalité, fraternité → Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité – Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
The picture of the national motto of France is reversed! The text is right, however the colors are red / white / blue, where they should be blue / white / red, and the face is looking left whereas it should be looking th other side.
The right picture can be found on the French Wikipedia page: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Logo_de_la_R%C3%A9publique_fran%C3%A7aise_%281999%29.svg
Question: where does this defective picture come from, and how did it land here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.167.171.77 ( talk) 21:56, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
[1] what is a women's role in the brotherhood of man? How do men go about creating "brotherhood of man"? 50.249.93.181 ( talk) 14:16, 8 March 2016 (UTC)Rolande Shillingford
The link Fraternity currently redirects to is quite barren, and has been neglected for a while. Shouldn't it redirect to the much more detailed Wikitionary page of the same name? Johnaoss ( talk) 02:20, 16 January 2017 (UTC)