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The Greeks were there for more than 3 thousands years...What do you mean by liberation? From whom? From its indigenous inhabitants? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.228.253.36 ( talk) 23:31, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
Smyrna is the old name of İzmir. In 1920s the name was İzmir and not Smyrna. Thus the name of this article needs to be moved to Liberation of İzmir. I'll call the editor. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 19:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline ( talk) 18:09, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Liberation of Izmir →
Recapture of Izmir –
Liberation is one of the words we should avoid in wikipedia, especially in titles. Googlebooks also prefers to refer it as (re)capture of Izmir/Smyrna [
[1]][
[2]][
[3]][
[4]].
Alexikoua (
talk)
10:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Comment: According to google books,
Recapture of Smyrna seems the common name of this event.
But more than the half of books that uses the term Recapture of Smyrna are considerably old, and includes other events such as "the recapture of Smyrna from the Turks (1344)", "The Latin crusaders' recapture of Smyrna" etc. Stanford Jay Shaw used " recapture of Izmir", " Turkish recapture of Izmir" was used in the annual annual bulletin of Turkish Historical Society. Takabeg ( talk) 13:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move page Chihin.chong ( tea and biscuits) 09:02, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Liberation of Izmir →
Liberation of Smyrna – During the Greco-Turkish war, Izmir was officially called Smyrna, therefore the name should be changed from
Liberation of Izmir to Liberation of Smyrna.
Central Data Bank (
talk)
08:32, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
...liberated according to who? Title appears to be WP:POV. Étienne Dolet ( talk) 20:52, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
Now, Vikipedi uses a racist terminology. Liberation is not about inhabitants. After the end of WWI the Greek army invaded western Anatolia. What ultranationalist Greeks think? Muslims and probably Africans and far-easterners are not humans, they cannot live freely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.209.32.73 ( talk) 21:10, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 07:19, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Liberation of Smyrna → Liberation of İzmir – The previous move was erroneous, in that it was based on the claim that "During the Greco-Turkish war, Izmir was officially called Smyrna". İzmir was officially known as İzmir at the time ( example). This is unlike the Constantinople - İstanbul change; the name Konstantiniyye was indeed used by Ottomans. However, they never used they name Smyrna officially, because, for one thing, you cannot write Smyrna in Ottoman Turkish, so they used the name İzmir from the beginning. What happened in 1930 was the Turkish Postal Service Law came into effect, which forced others to use the Turkish spelling. So Smyrna was never renamed, it is more of a spelling difference, like Londinium and London. Today, the spelling difference is used to emphasize the time, Smyrna refers to the ancient city, and İzmir refers to the post-medieval city, again like Londinium and London. It is incorrect to refer to İzmir of 1922 as Smyrna.-- Cfsenel ( talk) 19:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Turkish capture of Smyrna — Amakuru ( talk) 21:24, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Liberation of İzmir →
Battle of Smyrna – Smyrna, which was assigned to Greece by a valid international treaty and had a large Greek population, was not occupied and thus could not be "liberated". It would be like calling the
Siege of Breslau the Liberation of Wrocław
Genealogizer (
talk)
20:04, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. ( non-admin closure) Majority of respondents opposed to the move. Turnagra ( talk) 05:53, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Turkish capture of Smyrna →
Liberation of Smyrna – First of all, liberation is opposite to
an occupation. As the title
Liberation of Paris, this article should moved to
Liberation of Smyrna. The city was occupied then liberated. If the other page is calling an occupation, this should be a liberation, which is called in Turkey.
Beshogur (
talk)
17:25, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
If neutral language should be used and calling a state taking their own land from enemy "liberation" would be against neutral language, then "Fall of Constantinople" is extremely biased and should be changed to "Conquest" or "Capture" as well. (Random wiki reader)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.230.175.181 ( talk) 00:45, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article at least briefly mention the huge expulsion of Greeks from Smyrna by Turkey? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 07:13, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello @ MarshallBagramyan, may I ask you what did you exactly mean by "Your problematic behavior has been noted elsewhere"? Where is it noted at? Calling an editor's high effort edit a "problematic behavior" is not really WP:CIVIL. Contributor @ Utku Öziz openly expressed that he is not on the purpose of supporting any kind of ideology or agenda, implying that his purpose is supporting and developing encyclopaedia. "This is just an apologetic account based on OR to excuse the burning of the city by the Kemalists" seemed to me as WP:JDL, the edit is supported with both Greek and Turkish references while Greek ones being majority. Could you please explain how exactly Greek references were used to excuse the controversial claim of Kemalists burning the city? BerkBerk68 talk 18:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion regarding if the three refs " Marjorie Housepian Dobkin, Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of a City (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1971; 2nd ed. Kent, OH: Kent State University Press, 1988); Giles Milton, Paradise Lost: Smyrna, 1922 (New York: Basic Books, 2008)." are reliable sources.
Basic Books, Kent State University Press, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, are obviously three mainstream respected publishers with a reputation for fact checking and accuracy, but an IP address is disputing that they are. They left the edit summary: "Sources from Armenian nationalists is not reliable. It's biased and neo-fascist."
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Editor rejecting Basic Books, Kent State University Press, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich as reliable sources // Timothy :: talk 12:47, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The Greeks were there for more than 3 thousands years...What do you mean by liberation? From whom? From its indigenous inhabitants? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.228.253.36 ( talk) 23:31, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
Smyrna is the old name of İzmir. In 1920s the name was İzmir and not Smyrna. Thus the name of this article needs to be moved to Liberation of İzmir. I'll call the editor. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 19:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline ( talk) 18:09, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Liberation of Izmir →
Recapture of Izmir –
Liberation is one of the words we should avoid in wikipedia, especially in titles. Googlebooks also prefers to refer it as (re)capture of Izmir/Smyrna [
[1]][
[2]][
[3]][
[4]].
Alexikoua (
talk)
10:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Comment: According to google books,
Recapture of Smyrna seems the common name of this event.
But more than the half of books that uses the term Recapture of Smyrna are considerably old, and includes other events such as "the recapture of Smyrna from the Turks (1344)", "The Latin crusaders' recapture of Smyrna" etc. Stanford Jay Shaw used " recapture of Izmir", " Turkish recapture of Izmir" was used in the annual annual bulletin of Turkish Historical Society. Takabeg ( talk) 13:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move page Chihin.chong ( tea and biscuits) 09:02, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Liberation of Izmir →
Liberation of Smyrna – During the Greco-Turkish war, Izmir was officially called Smyrna, therefore the name should be changed from
Liberation of Izmir to Liberation of Smyrna.
Central Data Bank (
talk)
08:32, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
...liberated according to who? Title appears to be WP:POV. Étienne Dolet ( talk) 20:52, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
Now, Vikipedi uses a racist terminology. Liberation is not about inhabitants. After the end of WWI the Greek army invaded western Anatolia. What ultranationalist Greeks think? Muslims and probably Africans and far-easterners are not humans, they cannot live freely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.209.32.73 ( talk) 21:10, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 07:19, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Liberation of Smyrna → Liberation of İzmir – The previous move was erroneous, in that it was based on the claim that "During the Greco-Turkish war, Izmir was officially called Smyrna". İzmir was officially known as İzmir at the time ( example). This is unlike the Constantinople - İstanbul change; the name Konstantiniyye was indeed used by Ottomans. However, they never used they name Smyrna officially, because, for one thing, you cannot write Smyrna in Ottoman Turkish, so they used the name İzmir from the beginning. What happened in 1930 was the Turkish Postal Service Law came into effect, which forced others to use the Turkish spelling. So Smyrna was never renamed, it is more of a spelling difference, like Londinium and London. Today, the spelling difference is used to emphasize the time, Smyrna refers to the ancient city, and İzmir refers to the post-medieval city, again like Londinium and London. It is incorrect to refer to İzmir of 1922 as Smyrna.-- Cfsenel ( talk) 19:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Turkish capture of Smyrna — Amakuru ( talk) 21:24, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Liberation of İzmir →
Battle of Smyrna – Smyrna, which was assigned to Greece by a valid international treaty and had a large Greek population, was not occupied and thus could not be "liberated". It would be like calling the
Siege of Breslau the Liberation of Wrocław
Genealogizer (
talk)
20:04, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. ( non-admin closure) Majority of respondents opposed to the move. Turnagra ( talk) 05:53, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Turkish capture of Smyrna →
Liberation of Smyrna – First of all, liberation is opposite to
an occupation. As the title
Liberation of Paris, this article should moved to
Liberation of Smyrna. The city was occupied then liberated. If the other page is calling an occupation, this should be a liberation, which is called in Turkey.
Beshogur (
talk)
17:25, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
If neutral language should be used and calling a state taking their own land from enemy "liberation" would be against neutral language, then "Fall of Constantinople" is extremely biased and should be changed to "Conquest" or "Capture" as well. (Random wiki reader)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.230.175.181 ( talk) 00:45, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article at least briefly mention the huge expulsion of Greeks from Smyrna by Turkey? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 07:13, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello @ MarshallBagramyan, may I ask you what did you exactly mean by "Your problematic behavior has been noted elsewhere"? Where is it noted at? Calling an editor's high effort edit a "problematic behavior" is not really WP:CIVIL. Contributor @ Utku Öziz openly expressed that he is not on the purpose of supporting any kind of ideology or agenda, implying that his purpose is supporting and developing encyclopaedia. "This is just an apologetic account based on OR to excuse the burning of the city by the Kemalists" seemed to me as WP:JDL, the edit is supported with both Greek and Turkish references while Greek ones being majority. Could you please explain how exactly Greek references were used to excuse the controversial claim of Kemalists burning the city? BerkBerk68 talk 18:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion regarding if the three refs " Marjorie Housepian Dobkin, Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of a City (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1971; 2nd ed. Kent, OH: Kent State University Press, 1988); Giles Milton, Paradise Lost: Smyrna, 1922 (New York: Basic Books, 2008)." are reliable sources.
Basic Books, Kent State University Press, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, are obviously three mainstream respected publishers with a reputation for fact checking and accuracy, but an IP address is disputing that they are. They left the edit summary: "Sources from Armenian nationalists is not reliable. It's biased and neo-fascist."
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Editor rejecting Basic Books, Kent State University Press, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich as reliable sources // Timothy :: talk 12:47, 1 September 2023 (UTC)