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A fact from Li Xianyu appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 31 December 2019 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Government entities (especially those of a totalitarian nation) would not be considered reliable in this context (neither would the People’s Daily but I see thats been removed) so we appear to have difference of opinion on that, I am wrong about Phoenix Television though and freely admit that. After doing a bit of research on them they do appear to have the minimum necessary amount of editorial independence to qualify as a reliable source. We do however need three
WP:RS and even by your own count we only have two so why remove the request for additional sources? You appear to be confusing Refimprove with Unreferenced, I’m not saying anything is unreferenced just that we need additional sources (something I think we can both agree on).
Horse Eye Jack (
talk) 04:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Please do not use your personal opinion to override Wikipedia guidelines and academic practice.
All-China Women's Federation is listed as an essential source for China studies by The Cambridge History of China, see
here. And you're clearly confused about the purpose of the Refimprove tag. Per
Template:Refimprove: "Don't use this tag for articles that contain no unreferenced material, even if all the material is supported by a single citation." More sources would certainly be great (please feel free to add what you can find), but not required. -
Zanhe (
talk) 05:37, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Essential in no way means reliable or independent... Much of the scholarship on the All-China Women's Federation addresses just this point. Your insistence that academics take Chinese sources of this nature at face value is confounding, they do nothing of the sort.
Horse Eye Jack (
talk) 06:10, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
The information cited to Women's Federation sources is mainly uncontroversial stuff regarding her family, education, career, and awards, which are all corroborated with Phoenix News sources. The only opinion used is her being praised as "equal to several brigade commanders combined", which is clearly attributed. Your insistence that all Chinese government-affiliated sources are unreliable is confounding, and definitely does not conform with longstanding Wikipedia guidelines and practices. -
Zanhe (
talk) 06:28, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
I'm not challenging any of the current cites, I think all are entirely appropriate. I’m just noting that in general, per
WP:BLP, a page about a living person needs to have coverage in three
WP:RS and we don’t currently have that. If I didn't want to work with other editors to improve the page I would have nominated it for deletion instead of tagging it for improvement.
Horse Eye Jack (
talk) 07:04, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Engineering, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
engineering on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EngineeringWikipedia:WikiProject EngineeringTemplate:WikiProject EngineeringEngineering articles
A fact from Li Xianyu appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 31 December 2019 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Government entities (especially those of a totalitarian nation) would not be considered reliable in this context (neither would the People’s Daily but I see thats been removed) so we appear to have difference of opinion on that, I am wrong about Phoenix Television though and freely admit that. After doing a bit of research on them they do appear to have the minimum necessary amount of editorial independence to qualify as a reliable source. We do however need three
WP:RS and even by your own count we only have two so why remove the request for additional sources? You appear to be confusing Refimprove with Unreferenced, I’m not saying anything is unreferenced just that we need additional sources (something I think we can both agree on).
Horse Eye Jack (
talk) 04:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Please do not use your personal opinion to override Wikipedia guidelines and academic practice.
All-China Women's Federation is listed as an essential source for China studies by The Cambridge History of China, see
here. And you're clearly confused about the purpose of the Refimprove tag. Per
Template:Refimprove: "Don't use this tag for articles that contain no unreferenced material, even if all the material is supported by a single citation." More sources would certainly be great (please feel free to add what you can find), but not required. -
Zanhe (
talk) 05:37, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Essential in no way means reliable or independent... Much of the scholarship on the All-China Women's Federation addresses just this point. Your insistence that academics take Chinese sources of this nature at face value is confounding, they do nothing of the sort.
Horse Eye Jack (
talk) 06:10, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
The information cited to Women's Federation sources is mainly uncontroversial stuff regarding her family, education, career, and awards, which are all corroborated with Phoenix News sources. The only opinion used is her being praised as "equal to several brigade commanders combined", which is clearly attributed. Your insistence that all Chinese government-affiliated sources are unreliable is confounding, and definitely does not conform with longstanding Wikipedia guidelines and practices. -
Zanhe (
talk) 06:28, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply
I'm not challenging any of the current cites, I think all are entirely appropriate. I’m just noting that in general, per
WP:BLP, a page about a living person needs to have coverage in three
WP:RS and we don’t currently have that. If I didn't want to work with other editors to improve the page I would have nominated it for deletion instead of tagging it for improvement.
Horse Eye Jack (
talk) 07:04, 2 December 2019 (UTC)reply