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== All those statues ==

Is it just me, or do all those statues leave other people cold, too. They just make the subject feel like a museum piece, or worse yet, a high school textbook-- sterile and "heroic", in the overused, grandiose sense of the work, like the overblown inspirational music they're always using in the background of documentaries on such stories. The story itself is gritty, and I suspect it didn't feel at all heroic day by day. Anyway, if it were up to me, I'd move them all to a gallery at the end. Anyone feel the same about them? -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 15:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

== The Corps Of Discovery ==

It is also beleived that Sacajawea was captured by Indians, but no one can be really sure. I am not sure but I do beleive that the Indians called Clark "the redheaded chief" because of his red hair. It was very unusual for Indians to see red hair so of course they thought it was speical. The expedition is known to be called the corps of discovery, pronounced the cores of discovery. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.117.70.7|24.117.70.7]] ([[User talk:24.117.70.7|talk]]) 02:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

=="Official"==

I replaced the word "official" with "recorded" because it's not clear what "Official" means. Presumably it has something to do with government sponsorship, in which case, it should say so. Or if the idea is to distinguish haphazard tranists by wanderers of which we have no historical record, then I hope "recorded" conveys that. I don't think we should call transits authorized by the US Government, whose title rested on conquest, as being more official than transits by the Native Americans who, after all, lived there first. [[User:Rewinn|rewinn]] ([[User talk:Rewinn|talk]]) 21:18, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

== Members of the expedition ==

{{tn|editsemiprotected}}

The list of expedition members requires some corrections:

1. Jean-Baptiste Lepage, who joined the ‘Corps of Discovery’ as a replacement for Newman (No. 24; expelled from the permanent party on Oct. 13, 1804) on November 3, 1804, is missing. He was in one of the earlier versions but then deleted for some unfathomable reason.

2. Instead the list contains one ‘Howard Tunn’, who is pure invention - he isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Journals. Obviously he was brought into this world by some joker on March 19, 2006.

In addition it might be a good idea to organize the list a bit: (see section below)

:Hi there, in regard to your semi-protected edit request;

:I note that the current section was entirely unreferenced; therefore, I have removed it for now. This is merely procedure, as Wikipedia cannot assert unreferenced facts.

:I, or another user processing SPER requests in the future, will be happy to reinstate the section as per your suggestin in the following section, as long as you can support the facts with a suitable [[WP:RS|reliable]], [[WP:V|verifiable]] reference - such as a book (with ISBN if possible).

:Best regards, <small><span style="border: 1px solid; background-color:darkblue;">[[User:Chzz|'''<span style="background-color:darkblue; color:#FFFFFF"> &nbsp;Chzz&nbsp;</span>''']][[User talk:Chzz|<span style="color:#00008B; background-color:yellow; border: 0px solid; ">&nbsp;►&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 09:24, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

==Expedition members==

===The 33 members of the Permanent Party===

# Captain [[Meriwether Lewis]]—private secretary to President Thomas Jefferson and leader of the Expedition.

# Lieutenant [[William Clark (explorer)|William Clark]]—shared command of the Expedition, although technically second in command.

# [[York (Lewis and Clark)|York]]—Clark's slave (often referred to in Clark's journal as a "[[Slavery in the United States|servant]]").

# Sergeant [[John Ordway]]—responsible for issuing provisions, appointing guard duties and keeping records for the Expedition, and leader of the 3rd squad; third in command

# Sergeant [[Nathaniel Hale Pryor]]—leader of the 1st Squad; he presided over the [[court martial]] of privates John Collins and Hugh Hall.

# Sergeant [[Patrick Gass]]—chief carpenter, promoted from Private to Sergeant after Floyd's death; leader of the 2nd squad.

# Private [[William E. Bratton]]—served as hunter and blacksmith.

# Private John Collins—had frequent disciplinary problems; he was court-martialed for stealing whiskey which he had been assigned to guard.

# Private [[John Colter]]—charged with mutiny early in the trip, he later proved useful as a hunter; he earned his fame after the journey as an explorer in his own right.

# Private [[Pierre Cruzatte]]—a one-eyed French fiddle-player and a skilled boatman.

# Private [[Joseph Field]]—a woodsman and skilled hunter, brother of Reubin.

# Private [[Reubin Field]]—a woodsman and skilled hunter, brother of Joseph.

# Private [[Robert Frazer (Lewis and Clark)|Robert Frazer]]—kept a journal that was never published; originally of the Return Party but then transferred to the Permanent Party on October 8, 1804, to replace Moses Reed.

# Private George Gibson—a fiddle-player and a good hunter; he served as an interpreter (probably via [[sign language]]).

# Private Silas Goodrich—the main fisherman of the expedition.

# Private [[Hugh Hall]]—court-martialed with John Collins for stealing whiskey.

# Private Thomas Proctor Howard—court-martialed for setting a "pernicious example" to the Indians by showing them that the wall at Fort Mandan was easily scaled.

# Private François Labiche—French fur trader who served as an interpreter and boatman.

# Private Jean-Baptiste Lepage—a Frenchman living with the Mandans; after Cruzatte and Labiche the third Frenchman to actually enlist, unlike Drouillard and Charbonneau (and numerous French ‘Engagés’ who joined the expedition only for a short time, usually as boatmen or interpreters); joined on November 3, 1804 as a replacement for Newman.

# Private Hugh McNeal—the first white explorer to stand astride the headwaters of the Missouri River on the Continental Divide.

# Private John Potts—German immigrant and a miller.

# Private [[George Shannon]]—was lost twice during the expedition, once for sixteen days. Youngest member of expedition at 19.

# Private [[John Shields]]—blacksmith, gunsmith, and a skilled carpenter; with John Colter, he was court-martialed for [[mutiny]].

# Private John B. Thompson—may have had some experience as a surveyor.

# Private [[Peter M. Weiser]]—had some minor disciplinary problems at River Dubois, but still made a permanent member of the party.

# Private William Werner—convicted of being absent without leave at [[St. Charles, Missouri]], at the start of the expedition.

# Private Joseph Whitehouse—often acted as a tailor for the other men; he kept a journal which extended the Expedition narrative by almost five months.

# Private [[Alexander Hamilton Willard]]—blacksmith; assisted John Shields. He was attacked in July 1805 by a [[Kermode bear|White Bear]] on portage around [[Missouri River]] Falls and rescued by Clark and three others.

# Private [[Richard Windsor]]—often assigned duty as a hunter.

# Interpreter [[George Drouillard]]—skilled with Indian sign language; the best hunter on the expedition.

# Interpreter [[Toussaint Charbonneau]]—Sacagawea's husband; served as a translator and often as a cook.

# Interpreter [[Sacagawea]]—Charbonneau's wife; translated Shoshone to [[Hidatsa]] for Charbonneau and was a valued member of the expedition.

# [[Jean Baptiste Charbonneau]]—Son of Charbonneau and Sacagawea, born February 11, 1805, nicknamed ‘Pomp’ by Clark; his presence helped dispel any notion that the expedition was a war party, smoothing the way in Indian lands.

:*"[[Seaman (Newfoundland dog)|Seaman]]", Lewis' large black [[Newfoundland (dog)|Newfoundland]] dog.

===Originally also members of the Permanent Party===

# Sergeant [[Charles Floyd (explorer)|Charles Floyd]]—the Expedition's quartermaster; died on August 20, 1804, near present Sioux City, Iowa, perhaps of a ruptured appendix He was the one member of the Corps who died during the Expedition.

# Private Moses B. Reed—attempted to desert in August 1804; convicted of desertion and expelled from the Permanent Party.

# Private [[John Newman (Corps of Discovery)|John Newman]]—court-martialed and confined for "having uttered repeated expressions of a highly criminal and mutinous nature."; consequently expelled from the Permanent Party.

===The Return Party===

The composition of the return party is anything but clear. The following soldiers are mentioned on different occasions in April and May 1804 as belonging to it, but when it actually left the Permanent Party a year later, on April 7, 1805, the Journals only state that a "barge crew [...] of six soldiers" was dismissed with Corporal Warfington in charge; no other names are specified. If one considers that the party also included Reed and Newman, only four out of the five men mentioned below can have been in it:

# Corporal Richard Warfington—conducted the return party to St. Louis in 1805; fulfilled his task so ably that Lewis recommended that he receive a bonus beyond his regular pay.

# Private John Boley—disciplined at [[Camp Dubois]].

# Private [[John Dame]]

# Private Ebenezer Tuttle—may have been the man sent back on June 12, 1804; otherwise, he was with the return party.

# Private Isaac White—may have been the man sent back on June 12, 1804; otherwise, he was with the return party.

# Private John Robertson—member of the Corps for a very short time; mentioned in the Journals on a few occasions (once as ‘Robinson’) and then disappears; may have been the man sent back on June 12, 1804, unless that was Tuttle or White

[[Special:Contributions/87.179.237.62|87.179.237.62]] ([[User talk:87.179.237.62|talk]]) 17:04, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Were Lewis and Clark homosexuals? ==

I recently read reports online that Lewis was a homosexual. His wiki article states "Lewis, a happy man, never married." What does that lead us to believe? The fact that Lewis committed suicide around the time that his "partner" Clark married a woman also increases speculation. Does anyone know the answer to this? While I was recently in the Pacific Northwest, home of many Lewis and Clark statues, someone told me this. Anyone want to clarify? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:PowerSurge1000|PowerSurge1000]] ([[User talk:PowerSurge1000|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PowerSurge1000|contribs]]) 17:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Should the ''[[The Far Horizons]]'' (1955) be metioned in the article?==

As of 2009, the only feature-length motion picture on the Lewis & Clark expedition is the low-budget 1955 film: ''[[The Far Horizons]]'', [although there have been plenty of documentaries on the subject,(including the excellent 1997 [[PBS]] [[Ken Burns]]' "Lewis & Clark: The Journey of the Corps of Discovery")]. The movie stars [[Fred MacMurray]] as Capt. Lewis, [[Charlton Heston]] as Lt. Clark, [[Donna Reed]] as [[Sacajawea]] and [[Barbara Hale]] as Julia Hancock (Lt. Clark's wife). It is a film with a great many fictional scenes in it; such as attacks by Native-Americans and a love story between Mr. Heston and Ms. Reed (who isn't married in the film). The short, minor scene where they reach the Pacific Ocean reflects the low-budget of the film. If someone wants to add "The Far Horizons" to the article, that's fine with me, but, it is a lousy movie.[[Special:Contributions/204.80.61.110|204.80.61.110]] ([[User talk:204.80.61.110|talk]]) 16:35, 31 August 2009 (UTC)Bennett Turk

== A Correction for the reflist ==

Note 5 refers to an archived version of a site, because the original link to the site does not function. However, the original site (useful to link to in part because of its intellectual authority) does exist, is active, and will continue to be available in the foreseeable future. The original site link should be changed to this: http://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/read/?_xmlsrc=v02.appendix.a.xml&_xslsrc=LCstyles.xsl -- I am not sure why the note links to the following: http://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/v02.appendix.a.html.

==Capitalisation==

There seems to me to be no reason why "Expedition" is capitalised in the title. "Lewis" and "Clark" should be, as surnames, but the whole thing is <u>not</u> a proper noun, so I'm proposing moving this article to "[[Lewis and Clark expedition]]". Comments please. [[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 23:18, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

== Philadelphia training, reports ==

This article has a Philadelphia template, but nothing about Philadelphia in the article. From memory, I believe that there was training in various subjects for members of the expedition, and connections with the reports afterwards, done in Philadelphia. This needs investigation and additions to the article. --[[User:Dthomsen8|DThomsen8]] ([[User talk:Dthomsen8|talk]]) 22:23, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

:I have not removed the Philadelphia template, but there is no justification for having it until the article is improved to include relevant Philadelphia information. --[[User:Dthomsen8|DThomsen8]] ([[User talk:Dthomsen8|talk]]) 00:21, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

===Excellent sources for the Philadelphia connection===

* http://www.lewisandclarkphila.org/philadelphia/philadelphiafrankmuhly.html

* http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=593

<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:16 October 2009 00:47:17 (UTC)|16 October 2009 00:47:17 (UTC)]] ([[User talk:16 October 2009 00:47:17 (UTC)|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/16 October 2009 00:47:17 (UTC)|contribs]]) Dthomsen8</span><!-- Template:Unsigned2 -->