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Memoryal33454567 ( talk) 15:12, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone else dispute this incredibly long quote by Bruce Eder in the lead for this article? It is literally an entire paragraph in length, and Bruce Eder does not even appear to have a Wiki page. Search results on Google similarly yield very little. I'm amazed that this has slipped by…it appears to have been in the article long before Cohen's death as well. I'm going to be bold and remove it, I think. FuzzyGopher ( talk) 23:22, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
As a Canadian topic, I think it more appropriate to say "September 21" than "21 September" here. Likewise for the rest of the dates, of course. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:45, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
I wonder why Andy Dingley thinks that the added link is 'EL spamming?' I think it's a pretty good (if very brief and very concise), up-to-date/ current, tribute to Cohen's work. Thanks, Ijon Tichy ( talk) 17:31, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates and tables for short stories, poems and/or book reviews. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. Feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 ( talk) 12:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
1966: When Judy Collins met Leonard Cohen
Thank you User:MFlet1 for your comments, revert on the Leonard Cohen page, but the year in question is definitely 1966 when Judy Collins met and introduced Cohen, definitely not 1977, as he would have needed no introduction by that date.
Here is the story, in Collins' own words:
The source of the following text is the autobiography of Judy Collins. (Pages 145-147 of the hardbound edition or 144-146 of the paperback edition). Thanks to Rudi Schmid (Berkeley) for this information.
"I met Leonard Cohen in 1966, when my Canadian friend Mary Martin arranged for us to meet. Leonard had been a published and successful writer and poet for many years, and had recently written his first songs. He came down from Canada one night, and I listened to his songs in my living room.
He sang Suzanne and Dress Rehearsal Rag that night, sitting on the couch, holding the guitar on his knee. I was moved by his singing voice, and by the songs, and by his whole presence. There was something very ethereal and at the same time earthy about his voice. When Leonard sang, I was entranced. I became immediately devoted to him, and we soon were friends.
I often saw Leonard when he came to New York. He would check into the Chelsea Hotel on Twenty-third Street, and we would have tea together and walk around Greenwich Village. I recorded Suzanne and Dress Rehearsal Rag on In My Life in 1966, and it went gold in 1967. With the records's success, Leonard became known as a songwriter.
I suggested he make his debut and sing in public, but he was terribly shy.I knew once he got over his fear, he would be powerful on stage. I was going to appear at a concert for Sane against the Vietnam War at Town Hall, on April 30, 1967. I asked Leonard if he would sing Suzanne there.
"I can't do it, Judy, I would die from embarrassment."
"Leonard, you are a great writer and a fine singer, people want to hear you." He finally agreed, reluctantly.
When I introduced him, he walked onto the stage hesitantly, his guitar slung across his hips, and from the wings I could see his legs shaking inside his trousers. He began Suzanne, with the hushed audience leaning forward in their seats; he got halfway through the first verse and stopped.
"I can't go on," he said, and left the stage, while the audience clapped and shouted, calling for him to come back. "We love you, you're great!" Their voices followed him backstage, where he stood with his head on my shoulder, my arms around him.
"I can't do it, I can't go back." He smiled his handsome smile. He looked about ten years old. His mouth drew down at the sides, he started to untangle himself from his guitar strap. I stopped him, touching him on the shoulder.
"But you will," I said. He shook himself and drew his body up and put his shoulders back, smiled again, and walked back onto the stage. He finished Suzanne, and the audience went wild. He has been giving concerts ever since.
I have loved and recorded so many of his songs--Sisters of Mercy, Joan of Arc, Priests, Hey, That's No Way to Say Goodbye, Famous Blue Raincoat, The Story of Isaac, Suzanne, Take This Longing, and Dress Rehearsal Rag [she forgot Bird on the Wire]. His songs carried me through dark years like mantras or stones that you hold in your hand while the sun rises or the fire burns. They kept me centered as I stood in front of thousands of people, my eyes closed, my hands around the neck of a guitar, my voice singing his ethereal lyrics. The audience responded to his writing, the songs were like water to a person dying of thirst. They were songs for the spirit when our spirits were strained to the breaking point."
From Judy Collins: Trust your heart: An autobiography. Houghton Mifflin Co. Boston, 1987, ISBN 0-395-41285-4 (hardbound), no index. Paperback reprint: Fawcett Crest, New York, Feb. 1989, ISBN 0-449-21662-4 (paperbound).
"I think of great songwriters as Gods and Goddesses. Bringing me gifts, as surely tagged with my name as though they had been written especially for me. I hunt, searching for the best. Sometimes I get lucky. That year [1965] my friend Mary Martin introduced me to Leonard Cohen. He had written his first songs, and played me Suzanne and Dress Rehearsal Rag. The songs were stunning, and I recorded both.
Leonard, a published poet and novelist, was very shy and nervous about singing in public. He had a quiet, tucked-in voice. He said he wasn't a singer, but I knew he was. That fall I convinced him to go on stage at a benefit for WBAI [a New York City radio station]. He was petrified, but he tried. On stage he began to sing Suzanne, stopped in the middle, looked out at the audience, and walked into the wings. I got him to return, with me, and we sang the song together.
Leonard has become in later years one of the great performers, an intelligent, poignant artist. I am always honored that I was there to sing his songs first. Altogether in the Elektra years [on albums released 1966-76] I recorded ten songs, among them Priests, Sisters of Mercy, Blue Raincoat, and Bird on a Wire. I am mad about Leonard's writing (from pages 8-9).
Later on page 9: One night over dinner in New York after In My Life [in Nov. 1966, the first Collins album with covers of Suzanne and Dress rehearsal rag] came out, Leonard told me I should be writing my own songs. Leonard is the type of guy when he tells you to do something, you at least try it." (Thanks to Rudi Schmid for the info)
Leonard Cohen's songs recorded by Judy Collins
"In my life" (11/1966) Suzanne Dress rehearsal rag "Wildflowers" (11/1967) Sisters of mercy Priests Hey, that's no way to say goodbye "Who knows where the time goes" (11/1968) Story of Isaac Bird on the wire
There is more but this establishes that the year should be 1967 and not 1977 that "Judy Collins introduced Leonard Cohen..."
Thank you.
Will Dockery ( talk) 09:25, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
References
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I think it is in good taste and appropriate to mention Kate McKinnon's performance of parts of "Hallelujah" after Cohen's death, but I saw that performance and I do not think McKinnon was playing the role of Hillary at that particular moment. I think she was singing as herself. (It was wonderful.) Dratman ( talk) 03:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
It's well known that Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen were lovers, and this seems to have been artistically significant for both of them.
They both wrote songs called 'Winter Lady' and there's a Joni song called 'The wizard of Is' which recalls Cohen's 'Suzanne'. It's not clear which song led to the other.
The Joni songs 'That song about the midway', 'The priest', 'The gallery' & 'Rainy night house' are all believed to be about Cohen.
Is this not worth including in the article? Dean1954 ( talk) 11:49, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 10:41, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Memoryal33454567 ( talk) 15:12, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone else dispute this incredibly long quote by Bruce Eder in the lead for this article? It is literally an entire paragraph in length, and Bruce Eder does not even appear to have a Wiki page. Search results on Google similarly yield very little. I'm amazed that this has slipped by…it appears to have been in the article long before Cohen's death as well. I'm going to be bold and remove it, I think. FuzzyGopher ( talk) 23:22, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
As a Canadian topic, I think it more appropriate to say "September 21" than "21 September" here. Likewise for the rest of the dates, of course. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:45, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
I wonder why Andy Dingley thinks that the added link is 'EL spamming?' I think it's a pretty good (if very brief and very concise), up-to-date/ current, tribute to Cohen's work. Thanks, Ijon Tichy ( talk) 17:31, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates and tables for short stories, poems and/or book reviews. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. Feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 ( talk) 12:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
1966: When Judy Collins met Leonard Cohen
Thank you User:MFlet1 for your comments, revert on the Leonard Cohen page, but the year in question is definitely 1966 when Judy Collins met and introduced Cohen, definitely not 1977, as he would have needed no introduction by that date.
Here is the story, in Collins' own words:
The source of the following text is the autobiography of Judy Collins. (Pages 145-147 of the hardbound edition or 144-146 of the paperback edition). Thanks to Rudi Schmid (Berkeley) for this information.
"I met Leonard Cohen in 1966, when my Canadian friend Mary Martin arranged for us to meet. Leonard had been a published and successful writer and poet for many years, and had recently written his first songs. He came down from Canada one night, and I listened to his songs in my living room.
He sang Suzanne and Dress Rehearsal Rag that night, sitting on the couch, holding the guitar on his knee. I was moved by his singing voice, and by the songs, and by his whole presence. There was something very ethereal and at the same time earthy about his voice. When Leonard sang, I was entranced. I became immediately devoted to him, and we soon were friends.
I often saw Leonard when he came to New York. He would check into the Chelsea Hotel on Twenty-third Street, and we would have tea together and walk around Greenwich Village. I recorded Suzanne and Dress Rehearsal Rag on In My Life in 1966, and it went gold in 1967. With the records's success, Leonard became known as a songwriter.
I suggested he make his debut and sing in public, but he was terribly shy.I knew once he got over his fear, he would be powerful on stage. I was going to appear at a concert for Sane against the Vietnam War at Town Hall, on April 30, 1967. I asked Leonard if he would sing Suzanne there.
"I can't do it, Judy, I would die from embarrassment."
"Leonard, you are a great writer and a fine singer, people want to hear you." He finally agreed, reluctantly.
When I introduced him, he walked onto the stage hesitantly, his guitar slung across his hips, and from the wings I could see his legs shaking inside his trousers. He began Suzanne, with the hushed audience leaning forward in their seats; he got halfway through the first verse and stopped.
"I can't go on," he said, and left the stage, while the audience clapped and shouted, calling for him to come back. "We love you, you're great!" Their voices followed him backstage, where he stood with his head on my shoulder, my arms around him.
"I can't do it, I can't go back." He smiled his handsome smile. He looked about ten years old. His mouth drew down at the sides, he started to untangle himself from his guitar strap. I stopped him, touching him on the shoulder.
"But you will," I said. He shook himself and drew his body up and put his shoulders back, smiled again, and walked back onto the stage. He finished Suzanne, and the audience went wild. He has been giving concerts ever since.
I have loved and recorded so many of his songs--Sisters of Mercy, Joan of Arc, Priests, Hey, That's No Way to Say Goodbye, Famous Blue Raincoat, The Story of Isaac, Suzanne, Take This Longing, and Dress Rehearsal Rag [she forgot Bird on the Wire]. His songs carried me through dark years like mantras or stones that you hold in your hand while the sun rises or the fire burns. They kept me centered as I stood in front of thousands of people, my eyes closed, my hands around the neck of a guitar, my voice singing his ethereal lyrics. The audience responded to his writing, the songs were like water to a person dying of thirst. They were songs for the spirit when our spirits were strained to the breaking point."
From Judy Collins: Trust your heart: An autobiography. Houghton Mifflin Co. Boston, 1987, ISBN 0-395-41285-4 (hardbound), no index. Paperback reprint: Fawcett Crest, New York, Feb. 1989, ISBN 0-449-21662-4 (paperbound).
"I think of great songwriters as Gods and Goddesses. Bringing me gifts, as surely tagged with my name as though they had been written especially for me. I hunt, searching for the best. Sometimes I get lucky. That year [1965] my friend Mary Martin introduced me to Leonard Cohen. He had written his first songs, and played me Suzanne and Dress Rehearsal Rag. The songs were stunning, and I recorded both.
Leonard, a published poet and novelist, was very shy and nervous about singing in public. He had a quiet, tucked-in voice. He said he wasn't a singer, but I knew he was. That fall I convinced him to go on stage at a benefit for WBAI [a New York City radio station]. He was petrified, but he tried. On stage he began to sing Suzanne, stopped in the middle, looked out at the audience, and walked into the wings. I got him to return, with me, and we sang the song together.
Leonard has become in later years one of the great performers, an intelligent, poignant artist. I am always honored that I was there to sing his songs first. Altogether in the Elektra years [on albums released 1966-76] I recorded ten songs, among them Priests, Sisters of Mercy, Blue Raincoat, and Bird on a Wire. I am mad about Leonard's writing (from pages 8-9).
Later on page 9: One night over dinner in New York after In My Life [in Nov. 1966, the first Collins album with covers of Suzanne and Dress rehearsal rag] came out, Leonard told me I should be writing my own songs. Leonard is the type of guy when he tells you to do something, you at least try it." (Thanks to Rudi Schmid for the info)
Leonard Cohen's songs recorded by Judy Collins
"In my life" (11/1966) Suzanne Dress rehearsal rag "Wildflowers" (11/1967) Sisters of mercy Priests Hey, that's no way to say goodbye "Who knows where the time goes" (11/1968) Story of Isaac Bird on the wire
There is more but this establishes that the year should be 1967 and not 1977 that "Judy Collins introduced Leonard Cohen..."
Thank you.
Will Dockery ( talk) 09:25, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
References
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Leonard Cohen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:02, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 9 external links on Leonard Cohen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:24, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
I think it is in good taste and appropriate to mention Kate McKinnon's performance of parts of "Hallelujah" after Cohen's death, but I saw that performance and I do not think McKinnon was playing the role of Hillary at that particular moment. I think she was singing as herself. (It was wonderful.) Dratman ( talk) 03:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
It's well known that Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen were lovers, and this seems to have been artistically significant for both of them.
They both wrote songs called 'Winter Lady' and there's a Joni song called 'The wizard of Is' which recalls Cohen's 'Suzanne'. It's not clear which song led to the other.
The Joni songs 'That song about the midway', 'The priest', 'The gallery' & 'Rainy night house' are all believed to be about Cohen.
Is this not worth including in the article? Dean1954 ( talk) 11:49, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 10:41, 19 November 2020 (UTC)