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It looks bad to have so many "dubious" tags in the article. It would be better to rewrite the material. With that in mind, I am going to delete the sections tagged as dubious or else provide references for them. If I delete anything for which there is good evidence, then it will be easy to replace it, with supporting references. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:44, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
The fact that anti-globalization and Third Worldism are mostly left-wing movements is clear to anyone who pays attention to politics, history and current events. It is somewhat surprising that anyone would question that. The whole basis of those movements is to improve the situation of workers, the poor and the environment and to oppose capitalist exploitation, imperialism and colonialism. The current lack of of references that specifically state they are left-wing is no reason to delete the whole section. The section has recently been improved and should be improved further, not eliminated. Spylab ( talk) 18:22, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
The section of the intro describing examples of the movements is in complete shambles. It is changing everyday, and drastically from one extreme conclusion to the next. Yesterday it said that anarchism is "reformist" - which is not what most anarchists would identify themselves as. And then the next day it is describing all of socialism as "revolutionary" - when there are indeed reformist socialists. It seems as if that section was written by a very confused person who does not know what anarchism is, nor that socialism has reformist and revolutionary forms.-- R-41 ( talk) 22:39, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Actually, while as best I can tell the use of left-wing to describe socialism is universal, it is not the definition (the Left during the time of the French Revolution was not socialist). In any case, I'm trying to reach a compromise with R-41, and I can't do that unless I learn what his objection is. I think his objection is only that socialism is not always revolutionary, in which case removing the word "revolutionary" should solve the problem.
Turning to "environmentalism", that is far less obviously "left-wing". Which is why the article currently states that the term left-wing has been expanded, and that some people use "left-wing" to describe environmentalists. It is left-wing only in the sense that anything that taxes the rich or regulates corporations is destructive of what the Right consider the natural social order.
Rick Norwood ( talk) 14:18, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
The meaning of "right-wing" and the meaning of "socialism" have changed a great deal. It is not just a question of people calling Obama a socialist. It is a question of how responsible people use the words today.
All I'm trying to do right now is to satisfy R-41's objections so that the "dubious" flags can be removed. Rick Norwood ( talk) 21:59, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I've waited a while for a response from R-41. Lacking a response, I'm going to assume that removing the word "revolutionary" answers his objection to the statement that socialism is called left-wing, and have removed the "dubious" flag. R-41: if you restore the flag, please explain your objection. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Does anybody know what the recent creation of a redirect titled "Left-wing Stop" is all about? Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Neutral POV? I think not. The Right frames its argument in favor of personal rights/responsibilities and making yourself "equal".
Under the current administration in the U.S. these roles seem to be reversed. (Truthfully, *every* left-dominated nation has *always* had a favored (predatory) class and the preyed-upon masses.)
99.5.202.164 (
talk)
03:21, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
The libertarian Right is a minority even within the right-wing. Far more common are the right-wingers who frame their argument in terms of opposition to equality for "foreigners" or women or homosexuals. Politics makes strange bedfellows. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:28, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
I consider myself on the left, but I fundamentally agree with the criticism. This is a bad article from the get-go, based on an essentialist, reductionist definition of leftism as "social equality". This definition is inconsistent and inaccurate; for example, environmentalism or pacifism are traditionally aligned with left-wing politics, but neither causes are about "equality" per se. Historically, leftism has tended to refer to political movements committed to reform and revolution (French Revolution, progressivism, feminism, marxism, etc), whereas right-wing movements have tended towards resistance to change, or a belief in a "natural order". Even so-called rightwing reform movements have tended to frame their reformist agenda in terms of a return to an imagined originary state (like the Tea Party or the Nazi volkisch movement). In the very least, a better lede would avoid the essentialist definition, and simply define leftism as "an umbrella-term that encompasses a variety of political movements..."" etc etc, or something along those lines. -- 72.208.60.225 ( talk) 10:27, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
you could also note, that leftwing is against military ... anarcho-antimilitarism ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.173.87 ( talk) 16:27, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I would like to deal with the "dubious" flag on the claim that left-wing, in modern political discourse, has been extended to a wide variety of positions, of which environmentalism is one. Since examples of people who call environmentalism left-wing have been provided, I assume the question is whether the usage is common enough to merit inclusion in the lead. It seems to me that it is, but I don't want to make a big deal out of it. R-41, would you like a larger number of references, or is your objection that the people who call environmentalism left-wing are not important enough for inclusion here? Rick Norwood ( talk) 13:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
So, should we remove the statement that the meaning of left-wing has been expanded to include environmentalism? If you think so, then I will remove it, or you may. Rick Norwood ( talk) 21:24, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
the first picture shown is a picture of Jacobins holding pikes with aristocrats' heads on them, this picture is shown in a general paragraph about left-wing politics. it is obscene and slanderous in that this choice of picture is being used as a general depiction of what left-wing politics is. even in the French Revolution there were moderate left-wing groups as well as extremist ones and the extremist ones persecuted the moderate ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.239.210 ( talk) 16:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Social Progressivism cross-ref to "abolitionism in U.S." article should be changed to cross-ref to "abolitionism" Wikipedia article, because abolition of slavery was not only a U.S. phenomena or achievement, and because the other progressive achievements are not just U.S.-centric but, like the "aolitionism" article, are world-wide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.6.11 ( talk) 20:19, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
' More recently in the United States, left-wing and right-wing have often been used as synonyms for Democratic and Republican, or as synonyms for liberalism and conservatism respectively.'
I have several contentions with this statement.
The statement is mis-sourced
Reference 17 directs to a blog from a Time journalist which contains the following text: RNC chair sends a letter to supporters Tuesday asking for contributions to stop Franken from “stealing” the Minnesota incumbent’s Senate seat.
“I’m no stranger to the gutter campaign tactics and shady legal maneuverings of the Left Wing.”
That is the entirety of the information which can only be understood contextually and does not prove the original statement. Time is a political publication that has been known for several years to push an elite or establishment viewpoint - it is ironic that this is being used on an article on 'The Left'.
Reference 18 details a Spanish judge who tried Bush administration officials under the premise of Universal Jurisdiction. The article does not make one reference to the Democratic party, the only relevant piece of information is 'but rather he intends to cement his reputation as a darling of the Left'. The source is neither from a credible source(ABC cable) or backs up the original statement.
Reference 19 simply says ' reported in Mother Jones, April 29, 2009' - could someone link this with access to the Mother Jones digital archive? This reference as it is does not help or prove anything.
Reference 20 details a study of the brains of supposedy 'left' wing and 'right' wing individuals. 'Sulloway said the results could explain why President Bush demonstrated a single-minded commitment to the Iraq war and why some people perceived Sen. John F. Kerry, the liberal Massachusetts Democrat who opposed Bush in the 2004 presidential race, as a "flip-flopper" for changing his mind about the conflict.
Ok fair enough, but what does this prove?
Does not Represent Views From the Left
If you actually ask someone involved with Left wing politics if they are a Democratic party supporter they would simply laugh you off - seeing as the Democratic party is not left wing at all. People actually involved with the left. Tariq Ali wrote an entire book on how Obama and the Democratic party are no different to the Republican party. Noam Chomsky describes all democrats as 'moderate republicans'. The list goes on. I simply find it disturbing that the article that is supposed to describe the activities of 'the left' in fact misleads the reader into thinking that something like the Democratic party is left wing in the traditional sense. It simply reinforces the dogma(in the Fox News style) that supposed 'liberals'(a non term)are just the counterpart of the right wing in an inclusive, self contained political system.
Either find sources that actually reinforce the point or move it completely. I think there should be some content dealing with the 'real' left wing.
KingHiggins (
talk)
16:50, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
Cite error: The <ref>
tag name cannot be a simple integer (see the
help page).
Any sourced addition is welcome. On the other hand, I think it is clear that the sentence quoted above has nothing to do with what liberal or leftist or Democrat mean, but rather with the common practice in American news media to use the three words as synonyms, and the same with conservative, right-wing, and Republican. It is commonplace to read a story in, say, Time magazine that begins with something like this: "The Republicans filibustered the Democratic nominee. The liberals did not have the sixty votes needed to overcome the conservative filibuster. This handed a victory to the Right over the Left." Rick Norwood ( talk) 15:34, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
"[The left wing] is often in opposition to social hierarchy" if this is true then all forms of government and virtually all forms of organized civilization is not left wing. This is more of a description of anarchism than anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.239.214 ( talk) 15:57, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
There are various sources on this and other websites as well as in mainstream media and society that refer to the term "leftt-of-centre/center". Would it not be a good idea to include a new section in the main article to define the concept? It seems necessary to me because the terms "centre-leftt", "leftt-of-centre" and "left-wing", while sounding similar, describe materially different political positions. For example, in the European Parliament, there is the centre-left Party of European Socialists (PES) group, the left-of-centre European Green Party (EGP) and the left-wing Party of the European Left (EL). Each of these groups ideologies diverge significantly from on another, as such I believe it would be wise if terms used to describe said ideologies left little room for ambiguity. The term "left-of-centre" could also possibly include some of the parties in the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Party (ALDE) group as well as parties from elsewhere in the world that subscribe to certain schools of Liberalism. What I would like to see is the political spectrum content on Wikipedia include stand-alone articles for "Left-of-centre politics" as well as "Right-of-centre politics" alongside the established main poltical positions. Though, an alternative, and potentially better solution, seeing as they are both fairly short, could be for the articles Centre-left and Centre-right politics to be expanded and respectively renamed "Centre-left/Left-of-centre politics" and "Centre-right/Right-of-centre politics". If you agree with me, I would appreciate any assistance in this endeavour.
MBFCPresident ( talk) 20:02, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
No, leftists have always believed that people can be made to work for others, and that the fruits of their labor are not their own. A hallmark of left wing politics is the belief that power should be used to take earnings of one person and give it to another. The abolitionists believed that everyone was entitled to their own labor. From Lincoln:
"That is the real issue. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time, and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle. -- October 15, 1858 Debate at Alton, Illinois
Certainly, the abolitionists were considered left-wing at the time, while the conservatives supported the status quo.
- No they were not. The word conservative was not used in political parlance at the time to describe any political party. You are just being polemical.
Similarly, on the subject of capital punishment, most people who oppose capital punishment self-identify with the Left, while most who favor capital punishment self-identify with the Right. See, for example: https://www.aclu.org/issues/capital-punishment and http://theweek.com/articles/447348/conservative-case-capital-punishment. Rick Norwood ( talk) 21:09, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
If the definition of left-wing is "Left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality and egalitarianism, ... ." then certainly abolitionists fit that definition. Maybe this article is incorrect to say that "left-wing" originated with the French Revolution. The political Left dates back to the French Revolution. I've added to the article some information from the OED about when "wing" was appended to Left and Right. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:03, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Check out the OED. I used their first source, as of historical interest, but the idea that the Right favored God and the upper class while the Left opposed everything that was good and true and favored the lazy and good-for-nothing working class and the deist intellectuals was certainly one early thread of the dichotomy. Rick Norwood ( talk) 20:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree that abolitionism is not a major issue, but neither is it an exclusively US issue. The abolitionist movement in England was specifically religious in nature. Rick Norwood ( talk) 23:08, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Honestly I can't see how Barry Clark quote ads something relevant to the lead. The lead is to concise and the quotation is too long. Its better left to somewhere else in the article. Dentren | Talk 21:26, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
I can work with that. Rick Norwood ( talk) 15:24, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
Blair is not "right wing", and to use that language in the article is spin and POV. He is to the right of old labour but just because something is to the right of old labour it doesn't mean they are right wing. And citing journalism that itself is not NPOV is not citing a reliable source. Blair is to the Right of Old Labour, yes, but to call him "Right Wing" is just spin from anti-blairites. LeapUK ( talk) 10:53, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
At the risk of just dumping broad criticism here, the lead seems a little off-beam and over-focused on defining leftism as being simply about equality. More specifically, in terms of the last para, I'm not sure Barry Clark is such a prominent authority that he alone gets quoted by way of definition (this was briefly discussed two sections up) or that the main difference between the far left and centre left is simply about equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity, even if that may be one factor that is sometimes apparent. N-HH talk/ edits 11:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
User TFD : Agreed with above, the key to left-wing politics in relation to right-wing politics is the left-wing ideology that goes behind it. All the left-wing political positions stem from the the ideology. I think we could improve the intro if we make this point, and then it could lead into some of the resulting policies. A good example is : http://www.diffen.com/difference/Left_Wing_vs_Right_Wing
There is already a page for equality so we dont want to repeat that again. The whole of the left wing does not revolve just around the same equality.
Both left and right want the same outcome ie a richer and more successful society, with better education and better healthcare. It is just how to get there which is different between the two ideologies.
People1750 ( talk) 11:22, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
I agree. Wikipedia articles need to rise above the meaningless slogans and discuss specifics. Rick Norwood ( talk) 13:10, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
I have no objection to the edit, but it is not at all clear to me why the MS magazine cover is important enough to add to both this article and to the global warming article. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:41, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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User:109.76.126.193 has deleted a diagram I made for this page twice and I think this is not a good decision. So I decided to undo that change one more time. Here is what has gone on between us so far:
User:109.76.126.193: diagram is nonsensical and unnecessary
User:Araz: This editor needs to be more objective in their criticism. They need to explain what is wrong in the diagram that needs to be corrected. Araz (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User:109.76.126.193: It only serves to confuse the meaning of terms that are explained on the page itself. It does not make anything more clear, it simply obfuscates things. For example, why is Christian Socialism and Islamic Socialism in your diagram never overlapping with Utopian Socialism or Marxism? In this example alone, of Christian Socialism, that could be said to encompass anything from the Christian anarchism of figures like Tolstoy to liberation theology to Christian social democracy. Other things on the diagram don't make sense either. Why is there a section of the Bordigism circle that's not libertarian at all but is Leninist? If that's the case it's not Bordigism. I understand the meaning you are trying to convey with that overlap but with the section not under left communism you imply that there exist Bordigists who are just a subsection of Leninism, which is nonsensical. In this way much of what you've put on the chart is either plain wrong or ignorant of leftist theory and the abstract nature of many of these terms, and serves to confuse rather than educate. It seems as if you've made this chart based on little evidence for any of your decisions with regard to where you'll place things and entirely on your own opinions and personal research. Another example is the placement of Eurocommunism, which was essentially social democracy, but it looks as if you've put it further left as anarcho-syndicalism! As such it's confusing and should have no place on the article for left-wing politics. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
The inclusion of Capitalism as a separate circle doesn't really make sense either, and the inclusion of right libertarianism / anarchism is as irrelevant as including any other form of right-wing politics / non-left politics, as you're suggesting that just social democracy and green politics are capitalist yet others would argue that 90% of what you've labelled socialism is also capitalist in nature. You're presenting things as fact when it's really your opinion of where these different schools of thought lie. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Araz:
I respond to your arguments and claims one by one:
1. It only serves to confuse the meaning of terms that are explained on the page itself. It does not make anything more clear, it simply obfuscates things.
2. For example, why is Christian Socialism and Islamic Socialism in your diagram never overlapping with Utopian Socialism or Marxism? In this example alone, of Christian Socialism, that could be said to encompass anything from the Christian anarchism of figures like Tolstoy to liberation theology to Christian social democracy.
3. Other things on the diagram don't make sense either.
4. Why is there a section of the Bordigism circle that's not libertarian at all but is Leninist? If that's the case it's not Bordigism. I understand the meaning you are trying to convey with that overlap but with the section not under left communism you imply that there exist Bordigists who are just a subsection of Leninism, which is nonsensical.
5. In this way much of what you've put on the chart is either plain wrong or ignorant of leftist theory and the abstract nature of many of these terms, and serves to confuse rather than educate. It seems as if you've made this chart based on little evidence for any of your decisions with regard to where you'll place things and entirely on your own opinions and personal research.
6. Another example is the placement of Eurocommunism, which was essentially social democracy, but it looks as if you've put it further left as anarcho-syndicalism! As such it's confusing and should have no place on the article for left-wing politics. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
7. The inclusion of Capitalism as a separate circle doesn't really make sense either,
8. And the inclusion of right libertarianism / anarchism is as irrelevant as including any other form of right-wing politics / non-left politics, as you're suggesting that just social democracy and green politics are capitalist
9. yet others would argue that 90% of what you've labelled socialism is also capitalist in nature.
10. You're presenting things as fact when it's really your opinion of where these different schools of thought lie. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
If each time you are critical of something on the image you delete it you won’t give others the chance to think about it and improve it. So please write your comments on the talk page and allow for deliberation before removing the diagram. Araz ( talk) 07:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
I agree with the concerns expressed about the graphic and with its removal. Also, the editor repeatedly reinserting this, against consensus, has this back to front: you need to get agreement to include any version of it, not simply ask everyone to discuss how to "improve" it at a micro-level while leaving it on the page and edit-warring to that effect. The problem with it on a more fundamental level is threefold, as mostly already pointed out: first, as noted, it rather blatant WP:OR; secondly, even if it were sourced, it would remain utterly subjective in how it tries to present the relationships, since sources are unlikely to agree on a definitive representation among themselves; thirdly, it's utterly confusing and unenlightening on a casual glance, which rather defeats the purpose of a visual representation. N-HH talk/ edits 08:51, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
There is a section on the right-wing article devoted to "Right-Wing Terrorism." Why is there no equivalent section in this article? There are plenty examples of radical leftist organizations committing acts of terrorism, including bombings and murder, throughout the 20th century. I also think there should be a devoted criticism section on both articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.168.207.237 ( talk) 14:52, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
Looking through the talk archives, it seems clear that a lot of people take issue with the "left-wing" label because they see it as signifying more than just "left." Perhaps the semantic nullification of "wing" isn't as broad as the article implies. 38.124.22.170 ( talk) 13:51, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
An IP restored a section on left wing terrorism saying, "Restoring segment, given we have a right-wing counterpart, despite it's small size on the political right for reasons given on that page which I would argue are valid here. Take concerns to Talk Page?" [6] That is not a valid reason, and violates the guideline, "Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point." The IP thinks that Right-wing politics should not have a terrorism section, so adds one to this article. It does not belong in this article because it is not a signficant part of left-wing politics, particularly as the Left is defined in this article. Terrorism for example was not one of the tactics used by the Democratic Party in the recent elections. Furthermore, the assumption that there is symmetry between Left and Right is false. They are not mirror images of each other. TFD ( talk) 18:22, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
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This passage does not make much sense, I think:
"Since the Right was populist, both in the Western and the Eastern Bloc, anything viewed as avant-garde art was called leftist in all Europe. Thus, the identification of Picasso's Guernica as "leftist" in Europe[25][page needed] and the condemnation of the Russian composer Shostakovich's opera, The Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk District, in Pravda, as "Here we have 'leftist' confusion instead of natural, human music...".[26][page needed]"
Since when "the Right was populist"? There are both populists and elitists in the Right - if anything, I think "elitism" is a position more naturally associated with the Right than "populism". And what is the Right in Eastern Bloc? The dissidents? Or some socially conservative hard-line Communists (who, I suppose, were the people in Eastern Bloc more opposed to "avant-garde art")? And what is exactly the relation between being "populist" and being against "avant-garde art" (I could imagine many elistists being against avant-garde art - the kind of people who think that only classic music from some centuries ago is true art, for example)?
The identification of Guernica with the left has no mystery - it is a painting about the destruction of a Basque city by the Nationalist/Fascist forces during the Spanish Civil War; about the Shostakovich's opera, there seems to be a great confusion here - the Pravda was the newspaper of the Communist Party! It it accused the opera of being "leftist", surelly it is not in the sense used in this article; probably it is with the meaning that "leftist" has in the internal jargon of the Communist parties - something like "irrealist extremism".-- MiguelMadeira ( talk) 10:19, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
The article currently focuses on the time period from the French Revolution to the end of the 20th century.
As far as the 21st century, the article doesn't given enough explanation of the contemporary conflicts between the left/right.
For example, issues such as Brexit, the rise of European right-wing politics [8], the emergence of the alt-right and the election of Donald Trump are all significant matters.
Politics is similar to Newtonian physics. For all actions, there are reactions. In other words, left-wing politics doesn't exist in a vacuum.
The article should have additional information on the various challenges that left-wing politics currently faces in the developed world. For example, there are the issues of right-wing opposition to Muslim immigration; aging populations putting additional stress on government retirement/health programs; public schools vs. privatization of school systems (Betty Devos), high levels of national government debt in many developed countries that are growing, etc.
In Asia, you have fundamentalist, Protestant Christianity quickly expanding in Communist China [9] (fundamentalist, Protestant Christians often have socially conservative views on various issues). And China is poised to increase its status/influence as a major power in the 21st century. And this same brand of Protestant Christianity is rapidly growing in Latin America/Africa which will affect right/left wing politics in these places too. Knox490 ( talk) 19:11, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
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Should leftist positions on Zionism, anti Semitism, and the Israel Palestine conflict be included? Benjamin ( talk) 06:52, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
If you can cite reliable sources. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:36, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
That is what I meant when I said it is not really a left-right issue. Rick Norwood ( talk) 14:11, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
If on the right-wing politics page it is also categorized with the far-right politics (nazism / fascism), why can not the left-wing politics page be categorized with the far-left politics (communism / anarchism)?
Would not it be easier to categorize the pages of the far-politics with their respective ideological movements?
-- 83.41.227.101 ( talk) 23:12, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Beyond My Ken and I are having a debate about whether politics is singular or plural. I say that, in the title of this article, it is a singular noun. He says that in the title of this article it is a plural noun. The dictionary says it can be singular of plural. (It is certainly not the plural of politic, which is an adjective meaning "wise".) Thus, we can have one kind of politics, as in the title of this article, left-wing politics, or we can have various kinds of politics. There are many different kinds of politics in Washington. But in the title of this article, it seems clear to me that politics is a singular noun. If you agree, please fix it in the first sentence of the article. Rick Norwood ( talk) 22:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
I am certainly aware of words that do not have different forms for singular and plural. I'll offer only the following famous quote: "Politics is the art of the possible." Would you change that to "Politics are the art of the possible." Rick Norwood ( talk) 11:28, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I wonder why leftist defend keynesianism and then they say enviromental problemas are because of "consumism". I mean i know that leftist are not coherent but this is too much even for them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.60.71.192 ( talk • contribs) 13:17, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Please see the centralized discussion here for the argument to not use the above image in en.wiki articles. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 20:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
It would be nice if there could be added on the page a list of historically most important and current left-wing parties, possibly grouped under different left-wing ideologies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.103.74.8 ( talk • contribs) 10:00, 20 January 2013
Why is there mention of "Stalin" or other non-left leaders?
The first paragraph of the article clearly states "Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished. The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system""
Why is Stalin later mentioned in the article, implying that Stalin is a leftist? Stalin's policies were not consistent with social equality, egalitarianism or anti-hierarchical ideology. It didn't show concern for those who were disadvantaged, it didn't reduce inequalities, etc.
Stalin also was opposed to workers' self-determination and workers' ownership of the means of production, so he wasn't a socialist.
Stalin also was an authoritarian who wanted a strong state and he didn't abolish money nor classes, so he wasn't a communist.
I don't understand why people like Stalin are mentioned in the context of left wing politics. It's better suited as an example of far right politics. Shouldn't the examples of Stalinist policies be removed from the article? I don't see how they are relevant at all to the discussion about left wing politics (except to serve as a counterexample to left wing reform)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindknecht ( talk • contribs) 12:01, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The person who asked the question, "Why is there mention of Stalin," asked a simple question and deserved a simple answer: there was a time in history when "left" = "communist". Rick Norwood ( talk) 11:51, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
This makes no sense at all, Stalin was a communist, he was a member of the Communist Party, to say he was centrist or right-wing, is dis-ingenious at best. ZL3XD ( talk) 07:27, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
“Left-wing politics“ implies different politics which is plural. Why is the singular used in the article?-- LeftiePete ( talk) 23:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
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It looks bad to have so many "dubious" tags in the article. It would be better to rewrite the material. With that in mind, I am going to delete the sections tagged as dubious or else provide references for them. If I delete anything for which there is good evidence, then it will be easy to replace it, with supporting references. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:44, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
The fact that anti-globalization and Third Worldism are mostly left-wing movements is clear to anyone who pays attention to politics, history and current events. It is somewhat surprising that anyone would question that. The whole basis of those movements is to improve the situation of workers, the poor and the environment and to oppose capitalist exploitation, imperialism and colonialism. The current lack of of references that specifically state they are left-wing is no reason to delete the whole section. The section has recently been improved and should be improved further, not eliminated. Spylab ( talk) 18:22, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
The section of the intro describing examples of the movements is in complete shambles. It is changing everyday, and drastically from one extreme conclusion to the next. Yesterday it said that anarchism is "reformist" - which is not what most anarchists would identify themselves as. And then the next day it is describing all of socialism as "revolutionary" - when there are indeed reformist socialists. It seems as if that section was written by a very confused person who does not know what anarchism is, nor that socialism has reformist and revolutionary forms.-- R-41 ( talk) 22:39, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Actually, while as best I can tell the use of left-wing to describe socialism is universal, it is not the definition (the Left during the time of the French Revolution was not socialist). In any case, I'm trying to reach a compromise with R-41, and I can't do that unless I learn what his objection is. I think his objection is only that socialism is not always revolutionary, in which case removing the word "revolutionary" should solve the problem.
Turning to "environmentalism", that is far less obviously "left-wing". Which is why the article currently states that the term left-wing has been expanded, and that some people use "left-wing" to describe environmentalists. It is left-wing only in the sense that anything that taxes the rich or regulates corporations is destructive of what the Right consider the natural social order.
Rick Norwood ( talk) 14:18, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
The meaning of "right-wing" and the meaning of "socialism" have changed a great deal. It is not just a question of people calling Obama a socialist. It is a question of how responsible people use the words today.
All I'm trying to do right now is to satisfy R-41's objections so that the "dubious" flags can be removed. Rick Norwood ( talk) 21:59, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I've waited a while for a response from R-41. Lacking a response, I'm going to assume that removing the word "revolutionary" answers his objection to the statement that socialism is called left-wing, and have removed the "dubious" flag. R-41: if you restore the flag, please explain your objection. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Does anybody know what the recent creation of a redirect titled "Left-wing Stop" is all about? Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Neutral POV? I think not. The Right frames its argument in favor of personal rights/responsibilities and making yourself "equal".
Under the current administration in the U.S. these roles seem to be reversed. (Truthfully, *every* left-dominated nation has *always* had a favored (predatory) class and the preyed-upon masses.)
99.5.202.164 (
talk)
03:21, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
The libertarian Right is a minority even within the right-wing. Far more common are the right-wingers who frame their argument in terms of opposition to equality for "foreigners" or women or homosexuals. Politics makes strange bedfellows. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:28, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
I consider myself on the left, but I fundamentally agree with the criticism. This is a bad article from the get-go, based on an essentialist, reductionist definition of leftism as "social equality". This definition is inconsistent and inaccurate; for example, environmentalism or pacifism are traditionally aligned with left-wing politics, but neither causes are about "equality" per se. Historically, leftism has tended to refer to political movements committed to reform and revolution (French Revolution, progressivism, feminism, marxism, etc), whereas right-wing movements have tended towards resistance to change, or a belief in a "natural order". Even so-called rightwing reform movements have tended to frame their reformist agenda in terms of a return to an imagined originary state (like the Tea Party or the Nazi volkisch movement). In the very least, a better lede would avoid the essentialist definition, and simply define leftism as "an umbrella-term that encompasses a variety of political movements..."" etc etc, or something along those lines. -- 72.208.60.225 ( talk) 10:27, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
you could also note, that leftwing is against military ... anarcho-antimilitarism ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.173.87 ( talk) 16:27, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I would like to deal with the "dubious" flag on the claim that left-wing, in modern political discourse, has been extended to a wide variety of positions, of which environmentalism is one. Since examples of people who call environmentalism left-wing have been provided, I assume the question is whether the usage is common enough to merit inclusion in the lead. It seems to me that it is, but I don't want to make a big deal out of it. R-41, would you like a larger number of references, or is your objection that the people who call environmentalism left-wing are not important enough for inclusion here? Rick Norwood ( talk) 13:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
So, should we remove the statement that the meaning of left-wing has been expanded to include environmentalism? If you think so, then I will remove it, or you may. Rick Norwood ( talk) 21:24, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
the first picture shown is a picture of Jacobins holding pikes with aristocrats' heads on them, this picture is shown in a general paragraph about left-wing politics. it is obscene and slanderous in that this choice of picture is being used as a general depiction of what left-wing politics is. even in the French Revolution there were moderate left-wing groups as well as extremist ones and the extremist ones persecuted the moderate ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.239.210 ( talk) 16:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Social Progressivism cross-ref to "abolitionism in U.S." article should be changed to cross-ref to "abolitionism" Wikipedia article, because abolition of slavery was not only a U.S. phenomena or achievement, and because the other progressive achievements are not just U.S.-centric but, like the "aolitionism" article, are world-wide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.6.11 ( talk) 20:19, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
' More recently in the United States, left-wing and right-wing have often been used as synonyms for Democratic and Republican, or as synonyms for liberalism and conservatism respectively.'
I have several contentions with this statement.
The statement is mis-sourced
Reference 17 directs to a blog from a Time journalist which contains the following text: RNC chair sends a letter to supporters Tuesday asking for contributions to stop Franken from “stealing” the Minnesota incumbent’s Senate seat.
“I’m no stranger to the gutter campaign tactics and shady legal maneuverings of the Left Wing.”
That is the entirety of the information which can only be understood contextually and does not prove the original statement. Time is a political publication that has been known for several years to push an elite or establishment viewpoint - it is ironic that this is being used on an article on 'The Left'.
Reference 18 details a Spanish judge who tried Bush administration officials under the premise of Universal Jurisdiction. The article does not make one reference to the Democratic party, the only relevant piece of information is 'but rather he intends to cement his reputation as a darling of the Left'. The source is neither from a credible source(ABC cable) or backs up the original statement.
Reference 19 simply says ' reported in Mother Jones, April 29, 2009' - could someone link this with access to the Mother Jones digital archive? This reference as it is does not help or prove anything.
Reference 20 details a study of the brains of supposedy 'left' wing and 'right' wing individuals. 'Sulloway said the results could explain why President Bush demonstrated a single-minded commitment to the Iraq war and why some people perceived Sen. John F. Kerry, the liberal Massachusetts Democrat who opposed Bush in the 2004 presidential race, as a "flip-flopper" for changing his mind about the conflict.
Ok fair enough, but what does this prove?
Does not Represent Views From the Left
If you actually ask someone involved with Left wing politics if they are a Democratic party supporter they would simply laugh you off - seeing as the Democratic party is not left wing at all. People actually involved with the left. Tariq Ali wrote an entire book on how Obama and the Democratic party are no different to the Republican party. Noam Chomsky describes all democrats as 'moderate republicans'. The list goes on. I simply find it disturbing that the article that is supposed to describe the activities of 'the left' in fact misleads the reader into thinking that something like the Democratic party is left wing in the traditional sense. It simply reinforces the dogma(in the Fox News style) that supposed 'liberals'(a non term)are just the counterpart of the right wing in an inclusive, self contained political system.
Either find sources that actually reinforce the point or move it completely. I think there should be some content dealing with the 'real' left wing.
KingHiggins (
talk)
16:50, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
Cite error: The <ref>
tag name cannot be a simple integer (see the
help page).
Any sourced addition is welcome. On the other hand, I think it is clear that the sentence quoted above has nothing to do with what liberal or leftist or Democrat mean, but rather with the common practice in American news media to use the three words as synonyms, and the same with conservative, right-wing, and Republican. It is commonplace to read a story in, say, Time magazine that begins with something like this: "The Republicans filibustered the Democratic nominee. The liberals did not have the sixty votes needed to overcome the conservative filibuster. This handed a victory to the Right over the Left." Rick Norwood ( talk) 15:34, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
"[The left wing] is often in opposition to social hierarchy" if this is true then all forms of government and virtually all forms of organized civilization is not left wing. This is more of a description of anarchism than anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.239.214 ( talk) 15:57, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
There are various sources on this and other websites as well as in mainstream media and society that refer to the term "leftt-of-centre/center". Would it not be a good idea to include a new section in the main article to define the concept? It seems necessary to me because the terms "centre-leftt", "leftt-of-centre" and "left-wing", while sounding similar, describe materially different political positions. For example, in the European Parliament, there is the centre-left Party of European Socialists (PES) group, the left-of-centre European Green Party (EGP) and the left-wing Party of the European Left (EL). Each of these groups ideologies diverge significantly from on another, as such I believe it would be wise if terms used to describe said ideologies left little room for ambiguity. The term "left-of-centre" could also possibly include some of the parties in the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Party (ALDE) group as well as parties from elsewhere in the world that subscribe to certain schools of Liberalism. What I would like to see is the political spectrum content on Wikipedia include stand-alone articles for "Left-of-centre politics" as well as "Right-of-centre politics" alongside the established main poltical positions. Though, an alternative, and potentially better solution, seeing as they are both fairly short, could be for the articles Centre-left and Centre-right politics to be expanded and respectively renamed "Centre-left/Left-of-centre politics" and "Centre-right/Right-of-centre politics". If you agree with me, I would appreciate any assistance in this endeavour.
MBFCPresident ( talk) 20:02, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
No, leftists have always believed that people can be made to work for others, and that the fruits of their labor are not their own. A hallmark of left wing politics is the belief that power should be used to take earnings of one person and give it to another. The abolitionists believed that everyone was entitled to their own labor. From Lincoln:
"That is the real issue. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time, and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle. -- October 15, 1858 Debate at Alton, Illinois
Certainly, the abolitionists were considered left-wing at the time, while the conservatives supported the status quo.
- No they were not. The word conservative was not used in political parlance at the time to describe any political party. You are just being polemical.
Similarly, on the subject of capital punishment, most people who oppose capital punishment self-identify with the Left, while most who favor capital punishment self-identify with the Right. See, for example: https://www.aclu.org/issues/capital-punishment and http://theweek.com/articles/447348/conservative-case-capital-punishment. Rick Norwood ( talk) 21:09, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
If the definition of left-wing is "Left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality and egalitarianism, ... ." then certainly abolitionists fit that definition. Maybe this article is incorrect to say that "left-wing" originated with the French Revolution. The political Left dates back to the French Revolution. I've added to the article some information from the OED about when "wing" was appended to Left and Right. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:03, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Check out the OED. I used their first source, as of historical interest, but the idea that the Right favored God and the upper class while the Left opposed everything that was good and true and favored the lazy and good-for-nothing working class and the deist intellectuals was certainly one early thread of the dichotomy. Rick Norwood ( talk) 20:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree that abolitionism is not a major issue, but neither is it an exclusively US issue. The abolitionist movement in England was specifically religious in nature. Rick Norwood ( talk) 23:08, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Honestly I can't see how Barry Clark quote ads something relevant to the lead. The lead is to concise and the quotation is too long. Its better left to somewhere else in the article. Dentren | Talk 21:26, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
I can work with that. Rick Norwood ( talk) 15:24, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
Blair is not "right wing", and to use that language in the article is spin and POV. He is to the right of old labour but just because something is to the right of old labour it doesn't mean they are right wing. And citing journalism that itself is not NPOV is not citing a reliable source. Blair is to the Right of Old Labour, yes, but to call him "Right Wing" is just spin from anti-blairites. LeapUK ( talk) 10:53, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
At the risk of just dumping broad criticism here, the lead seems a little off-beam and over-focused on defining leftism as being simply about equality. More specifically, in terms of the last para, I'm not sure Barry Clark is such a prominent authority that he alone gets quoted by way of definition (this was briefly discussed two sections up) or that the main difference between the far left and centre left is simply about equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity, even if that may be one factor that is sometimes apparent. N-HH talk/ edits 11:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
User TFD : Agreed with above, the key to left-wing politics in relation to right-wing politics is the left-wing ideology that goes behind it. All the left-wing political positions stem from the the ideology. I think we could improve the intro if we make this point, and then it could lead into some of the resulting policies. A good example is : http://www.diffen.com/difference/Left_Wing_vs_Right_Wing
There is already a page for equality so we dont want to repeat that again. The whole of the left wing does not revolve just around the same equality.
Both left and right want the same outcome ie a richer and more successful society, with better education and better healthcare. It is just how to get there which is different between the two ideologies.
People1750 ( talk) 11:22, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
I agree. Wikipedia articles need to rise above the meaningless slogans and discuss specifics. Rick Norwood ( talk) 13:10, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
I have no objection to the edit, but it is not at all clear to me why the MS magazine cover is important enough to add to both this article and to the global warming article. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:41, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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User:109.76.126.193 has deleted a diagram I made for this page twice and I think this is not a good decision. So I decided to undo that change one more time. Here is what has gone on between us so far:
User:109.76.126.193: diagram is nonsensical and unnecessary
User:Araz: This editor needs to be more objective in their criticism. They need to explain what is wrong in the diagram that needs to be corrected. Araz (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User:109.76.126.193: It only serves to confuse the meaning of terms that are explained on the page itself. It does not make anything more clear, it simply obfuscates things. For example, why is Christian Socialism and Islamic Socialism in your diagram never overlapping with Utopian Socialism or Marxism? In this example alone, of Christian Socialism, that could be said to encompass anything from the Christian anarchism of figures like Tolstoy to liberation theology to Christian social democracy. Other things on the diagram don't make sense either. Why is there a section of the Bordigism circle that's not libertarian at all but is Leninist? If that's the case it's not Bordigism. I understand the meaning you are trying to convey with that overlap but with the section not under left communism you imply that there exist Bordigists who are just a subsection of Leninism, which is nonsensical. In this way much of what you've put on the chart is either plain wrong or ignorant of leftist theory and the abstract nature of many of these terms, and serves to confuse rather than educate. It seems as if you've made this chart based on little evidence for any of your decisions with regard to where you'll place things and entirely on your own opinions and personal research. Another example is the placement of Eurocommunism, which was essentially social democracy, but it looks as if you've put it further left as anarcho-syndicalism! As such it's confusing and should have no place on the article for left-wing politics. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
The inclusion of Capitalism as a separate circle doesn't really make sense either, and the inclusion of right libertarianism / anarchism is as irrelevant as including any other form of right-wing politics / non-left politics, as you're suggesting that just social democracy and green politics are capitalist yet others would argue that 90% of what you've labelled socialism is also capitalist in nature. You're presenting things as fact when it's really your opinion of where these different schools of thought lie. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Araz:
I respond to your arguments and claims one by one:
1. It only serves to confuse the meaning of terms that are explained on the page itself. It does not make anything more clear, it simply obfuscates things.
2. For example, why is Christian Socialism and Islamic Socialism in your diagram never overlapping with Utopian Socialism or Marxism? In this example alone, of Christian Socialism, that could be said to encompass anything from the Christian anarchism of figures like Tolstoy to liberation theology to Christian social democracy.
3. Other things on the diagram don't make sense either.
4. Why is there a section of the Bordigism circle that's not libertarian at all but is Leninist? If that's the case it's not Bordigism. I understand the meaning you are trying to convey with that overlap but with the section not under left communism you imply that there exist Bordigists who are just a subsection of Leninism, which is nonsensical.
5. In this way much of what you've put on the chart is either plain wrong or ignorant of leftist theory and the abstract nature of many of these terms, and serves to confuse rather than educate. It seems as if you've made this chart based on little evidence for any of your decisions with regard to where you'll place things and entirely on your own opinions and personal research.
6. Another example is the placement of Eurocommunism, which was essentially social democracy, but it looks as if you've put it further left as anarcho-syndicalism! As such it's confusing and should have no place on the article for left-wing politics. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
7. The inclusion of Capitalism as a separate circle doesn't really make sense either,
8. And the inclusion of right libertarianism / anarchism is as irrelevant as including any other form of right-wing politics / non-left politics, as you're suggesting that just social democracy and green politics are capitalist
9. yet others would argue that 90% of what you've labelled socialism is also capitalist in nature.
10. You're presenting things as fact when it's really your opinion of where these different schools of thought lie. 109.76.126.193 (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
If each time you are critical of something on the image you delete it you won’t give others the chance to think about it and improve it. So please write your comments on the talk page and allow for deliberation before removing the diagram. Araz ( talk) 07:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
I agree with the concerns expressed about the graphic and with its removal. Also, the editor repeatedly reinserting this, against consensus, has this back to front: you need to get agreement to include any version of it, not simply ask everyone to discuss how to "improve" it at a micro-level while leaving it on the page and edit-warring to that effect. The problem with it on a more fundamental level is threefold, as mostly already pointed out: first, as noted, it rather blatant WP:OR; secondly, even if it were sourced, it would remain utterly subjective in how it tries to present the relationships, since sources are unlikely to agree on a definitive representation among themselves; thirdly, it's utterly confusing and unenlightening on a casual glance, which rather defeats the purpose of a visual representation. N-HH talk/ edits 08:51, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
There is a section on the right-wing article devoted to "Right-Wing Terrorism." Why is there no equivalent section in this article? There are plenty examples of radical leftist organizations committing acts of terrorism, including bombings and murder, throughout the 20th century. I also think there should be a devoted criticism section on both articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.168.207.237 ( talk) 14:52, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
Looking through the talk archives, it seems clear that a lot of people take issue with the "left-wing" label because they see it as signifying more than just "left." Perhaps the semantic nullification of "wing" isn't as broad as the article implies. 38.124.22.170 ( talk) 13:51, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
An IP restored a section on left wing terrorism saying, "Restoring segment, given we have a right-wing counterpart, despite it's small size on the political right for reasons given on that page which I would argue are valid here. Take concerns to Talk Page?" [6] That is not a valid reason, and violates the guideline, "Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point." The IP thinks that Right-wing politics should not have a terrorism section, so adds one to this article. It does not belong in this article because it is not a signficant part of left-wing politics, particularly as the Left is defined in this article. Terrorism for example was not one of the tactics used by the Democratic Party in the recent elections. Furthermore, the assumption that there is symmetry between Left and Right is false. They are not mirror images of each other. TFD ( talk) 18:22, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
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This passage does not make much sense, I think:
"Since the Right was populist, both in the Western and the Eastern Bloc, anything viewed as avant-garde art was called leftist in all Europe. Thus, the identification of Picasso's Guernica as "leftist" in Europe[25][page needed] and the condemnation of the Russian composer Shostakovich's opera, The Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk District, in Pravda, as "Here we have 'leftist' confusion instead of natural, human music...".[26][page needed]"
Since when "the Right was populist"? There are both populists and elitists in the Right - if anything, I think "elitism" is a position more naturally associated with the Right than "populism". And what is the Right in Eastern Bloc? The dissidents? Or some socially conservative hard-line Communists (who, I suppose, were the people in Eastern Bloc more opposed to "avant-garde art")? And what is exactly the relation between being "populist" and being against "avant-garde art" (I could imagine many elistists being against avant-garde art - the kind of people who think that only classic music from some centuries ago is true art, for example)?
The identification of Guernica with the left has no mystery - it is a painting about the destruction of a Basque city by the Nationalist/Fascist forces during the Spanish Civil War; about the Shostakovich's opera, there seems to be a great confusion here - the Pravda was the newspaper of the Communist Party! It it accused the opera of being "leftist", surelly it is not in the sense used in this article; probably it is with the meaning that "leftist" has in the internal jargon of the Communist parties - something like "irrealist extremism".-- MiguelMadeira ( talk) 10:19, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
The article currently focuses on the time period from the French Revolution to the end of the 20th century.
As far as the 21st century, the article doesn't given enough explanation of the contemporary conflicts between the left/right.
For example, issues such as Brexit, the rise of European right-wing politics [8], the emergence of the alt-right and the election of Donald Trump are all significant matters.
Politics is similar to Newtonian physics. For all actions, there are reactions. In other words, left-wing politics doesn't exist in a vacuum.
The article should have additional information on the various challenges that left-wing politics currently faces in the developed world. For example, there are the issues of right-wing opposition to Muslim immigration; aging populations putting additional stress on government retirement/health programs; public schools vs. privatization of school systems (Betty Devos), high levels of national government debt in many developed countries that are growing, etc.
In Asia, you have fundamentalist, Protestant Christianity quickly expanding in Communist China [9] (fundamentalist, Protestant Christians often have socially conservative views on various issues). And China is poised to increase its status/influence as a major power in the 21st century. And this same brand of Protestant Christianity is rapidly growing in Latin America/Africa which will affect right/left wing politics in these places too. Knox490 ( talk) 19:11, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
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Should leftist positions on Zionism, anti Semitism, and the Israel Palestine conflict be included? Benjamin ( talk) 06:52, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
If you can cite reliable sources. Rick Norwood ( talk) 12:36, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
That is what I meant when I said it is not really a left-right issue. Rick Norwood ( talk) 14:11, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
If on the right-wing politics page it is also categorized with the far-right politics (nazism / fascism), why can not the left-wing politics page be categorized with the far-left politics (communism / anarchism)?
Would not it be easier to categorize the pages of the far-politics with their respective ideological movements?
-- 83.41.227.101 ( talk) 23:12, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Beyond My Ken and I are having a debate about whether politics is singular or plural. I say that, in the title of this article, it is a singular noun. He says that in the title of this article it is a plural noun. The dictionary says it can be singular of plural. (It is certainly not the plural of politic, which is an adjective meaning "wise".) Thus, we can have one kind of politics, as in the title of this article, left-wing politics, or we can have various kinds of politics. There are many different kinds of politics in Washington. But in the title of this article, it seems clear to me that politics is a singular noun. If you agree, please fix it in the first sentence of the article. Rick Norwood ( talk) 22:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
I am certainly aware of words that do not have different forms for singular and plural. I'll offer only the following famous quote: "Politics is the art of the possible." Would you change that to "Politics are the art of the possible." Rick Norwood ( talk) 11:28, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I wonder why leftist defend keynesianism and then they say enviromental problemas are because of "consumism". I mean i know that leftist are not coherent but this is too much even for them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.60.71.192 ( talk • contribs) 13:17, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Please see the centralized discussion here for the argument to not use the above image in en.wiki articles. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 20:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
It would be nice if there could be added on the page a list of historically most important and current left-wing parties, possibly grouped under different left-wing ideologies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.103.74.8 ( talk • contribs) 10:00, 20 January 2013
Why is there mention of "Stalin" or other non-left leaders?
The first paragraph of the article clearly states "Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished. The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system""
Why is Stalin later mentioned in the article, implying that Stalin is a leftist? Stalin's policies were not consistent with social equality, egalitarianism or anti-hierarchical ideology. It didn't show concern for those who were disadvantaged, it didn't reduce inequalities, etc.
Stalin also was opposed to workers' self-determination and workers' ownership of the means of production, so he wasn't a socialist.
Stalin also was an authoritarian who wanted a strong state and he didn't abolish money nor classes, so he wasn't a communist.
I don't understand why people like Stalin are mentioned in the context of left wing politics. It's better suited as an example of far right politics. Shouldn't the examples of Stalinist policies be removed from the article? I don't see how they are relevant at all to the discussion about left wing politics (except to serve as a counterexample to left wing reform)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindknecht ( talk • contribs) 12:01, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The person who asked the question, "Why is there mention of Stalin," asked a simple question and deserved a simple answer: there was a time in history when "left" = "communist". Rick Norwood ( talk) 11:51, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
This makes no sense at all, Stalin was a communist, he was a member of the Communist Party, to say he was centrist or right-wing, is dis-ingenious at best. ZL3XD ( talk) 07:27, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
“Left-wing politics“ implies different politics which is plural. Why is the singular used in the article?-- LeftiePete ( talk) 23:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)