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Is this really neutral? There seems to be a complete absence of a mention of his considerable footballing talent, and instead a raging focus on his misdemenours. The final line certainly is 'wrong'. Prior to leaving Newcastle (i.e. in the past season) his form was superb, and indeed he never really had a bad time of it whilst with any side - unless the side itself was doing badly.-- Koncorde 10:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Can it really be proved that Venables was jealous of Bowyer's talent? If it is Lee Bowyer claiming this himself, it should be written as such.
"Perhaps the most amusing of Bowyer's various racially motivated incidents was the December 19 2001, when the Mirror newspaper published front page, which next to an image of Bowyer's head exclaimed: "I'm the victim... wails boozing, pot smoking, violent, RACIST, cowardly, unapologetic, lying, odious transfer-listed Lee Bowyer (now try and sue us you little scum bag)"
It is popularly blamed on the Leeds administration for the deterioration of his career" This really need to be rewritten so that it makes sense...
The prose says Newham, the infobox says Canning Town. Obviously the two places are close, but does anyone have a source for the exact town? The cats need to be changed accordingly. I'm taking the People from London category off, because whether he's from Canning Town or Newham, he is necessarily from London, no point in overcategorising. Jdcooper ( talk) 01:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
This is the biography of a person. The fact that he's a living person, doesn't mean that notable facts of his life should not be included. Yet editor Struway2 deleted the whole "Personal Life" section. I happen to have created that section and I used only public sources for references, without any POV terms. What is the reasoning behind the removal, please? - The Gnome ( talk) 07:56, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
{outdent)This has nothing to do with "beautifying" a biography. Bowyer is notable in the WP sense because he's a footballer. Given that he is notable because of his job, then his non-footballing activities come into play. The article quite correctly includes well-referenced factual reports of the cannabis, McDonald's, Leeds nightclub, and Dyer incidents, certainly not glossed over.
But his former girlfriend's account of their final row is different in kind. The source you refer to takes up several pages of Sunday magazine investigating the contradictory aspects of Bowyer's character. Another part of it talks of the young Bowyer's social circle being "culturally diverse", and says how the mother of his best friend, a boy of Nigerian origin, "dismisses the notion that Bowyer was racially prejudiced". We can't cherry-pick one piece of illustrative material from such a source and list it as a fact on public record in the same way we can, and have, listed his court appearances or his footballing achievements. Struway2 ( talk) 19:52, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Please see the Premier League website stats pages, at http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics/0,,12306,00.html, which lists Bowyer's yellow card count at 99. That figure is consistent with the references already in the article which give him 98 PL yellows at the end of 2010; the one received on 5 March was his first in 2011, see Soccerbase http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=870 . A piece on the Sports Illustrated website mentions the discrepancy, see http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_berlin/03/05/epl.notes/ . Given that reliable sources including the PL themselves suggest that he hasn't actually got 100 yellow cards yet, we shouldn't really be saying he has. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 10:17, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
My edit, that was reverted without a clear rationale is definitely better. The previous lead mixed up the player's playing and managerial career whereas the new version puts the key facts together and sharpens the lead up. If there is an ongoing objection I should welcome the rationale. 2A02:C7F:4481:8300:90DC:E235:5074:54B0 ( talk) 14:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Is this really neutral? There seems to be a complete absence of a mention of his considerable footballing talent, and instead a raging focus on his misdemenours. The final line certainly is 'wrong'. Prior to leaving Newcastle (i.e. in the past season) his form was superb, and indeed he never really had a bad time of it whilst with any side - unless the side itself was doing badly.-- Koncorde 10:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Can it really be proved that Venables was jealous of Bowyer's talent? If it is Lee Bowyer claiming this himself, it should be written as such.
"Perhaps the most amusing of Bowyer's various racially motivated incidents was the December 19 2001, when the Mirror newspaper published front page, which next to an image of Bowyer's head exclaimed: "I'm the victim... wails boozing, pot smoking, violent, RACIST, cowardly, unapologetic, lying, odious transfer-listed Lee Bowyer (now try and sue us you little scum bag)"
It is popularly blamed on the Leeds administration for the deterioration of his career" This really need to be rewritten so that it makes sense...
The prose says Newham, the infobox says Canning Town. Obviously the two places are close, but does anyone have a source for the exact town? The cats need to be changed accordingly. I'm taking the People from London category off, because whether he's from Canning Town or Newham, he is necessarily from London, no point in overcategorising. Jdcooper ( talk) 01:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
This is the biography of a person. The fact that he's a living person, doesn't mean that notable facts of his life should not be included. Yet editor Struway2 deleted the whole "Personal Life" section. I happen to have created that section and I used only public sources for references, without any POV terms. What is the reasoning behind the removal, please? - The Gnome ( talk) 07:56, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
{outdent)This has nothing to do with "beautifying" a biography. Bowyer is notable in the WP sense because he's a footballer. Given that he is notable because of his job, then his non-footballing activities come into play. The article quite correctly includes well-referenced factual reports of the cannabis, McDonald's, Leeds nightclub, and Dyer incidents, certainly not glossed over.
But his former girlfriend's account of their final row is different in kind. The source you refer to takes up several pages of Sunday magazine investigating the contradictory aspects of Bowyer's character. Another part of it talks of the young Bowyer's social circle being "culturally diverse", and says how the mother of his best friend, a boy of Nigerian origin, "dismisses the notion that Bowyer was racially prejudiced". We can't cherry-pick one piece of illustrative material from such a source and list it as a fact on public record in the same way we can, and have, listed his court appearances or his footballing achievements. Struway2 ( talk) 19:52, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Please see the Premier League website stats pages, at http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics/0,,12306,00.html, which lists Bowyer's yellow card count at 99. That figure is consistent with the references already in the article which give him 98 PL yellows at the end of 2010; the one received on 5 March was his first in 2011, see Soccerbase http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=870 . A piece on the Sports Illustrated website mentions the discrepancy, see http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_berlin/03/05/epl.notes/ . Given that reliable sources including the PL themselves suggest that he hasn't actually got 100 yellow cards yet, we shouldn't really be saying he has. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 10:17, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
My edit, that was reverted without a clear rationale is definitely better. The previous lead mixed up the player's playing and managerial career whereas the new version puts the key facts together and sharpens the lead up. If there is an ongoing objection I should welcome the rationale. 2A02:C7F:4481:8300:90DC:E235:5074:54B0 ( talk) 14:15, 28 August 2019 (UTC)