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Reviewer: Editoneer ( talk · contribs) 15:15, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Let's start with the problems.
boys baking bread..., The people making the bread in the images aren't "boys" like in young males, they looks like adults and Wikipedia has a policy of gender-neutral language. If is a reason why males are allowed to bake bread please replace it to "Men" and mention why are men only allowed to bake bread. If isn't something specific, then just put "people".
walnuts or dates, please specify what food is "dates".
Supposed grape presses and jars from the Marriage at Cana, the first miracle attributed to Jesus, Located in Qana, Lebanon, "Supposed" is a Words to Watch, as it expresses doubt, please consider removing it or why is the claim unsure without putting "supposed" in it.
Arak, an anise-flavored liqueur, is the Lebanese national drink and usually served with a traditional convivial Lebanese meal. Another historic and traditional drink is Lebanese wine., reference required here.
This style of serving food is less a part of family life than it is of entertaining and cafés. Mezze may be as simple as raw or pickled vegetables, hummus, baba ghanouj and bread, or it may become an entire meal consisting of grilled marinated seafood, skewered meats, a variety of cooked and raw salads and an arrangement of desserts. Family cuisine offers also a range of dishes, such as stews (or yakhneh), which can be cooked in many forms depending on the ingredients used and are usually served with meat and rice vermicelli. Pita bread is a staple of every Lebanese meal, and can be used in place of a fork., add reference here, even if it sounds well-documented... references are required to avoid original research disputes and the image doesn't provide many information to cover up the whole pharagraph.
Although simple fresh fruits are often served towards the end of a Lebanese meal, there is also dessert, such as baklava and coffee. Although baklava is the most internationally known dessert, there is a great variety of Lebanese desserts., add reference here.
The assortments of dishes forming the mezze are generally consumed in small bites using a piece of Lebanese bread (Khubz, Pita) or a fork. As a family, it is made up of three or four dishes, but in the restaurant, the mezze can range from twenty to sixty dishes, as the varient combinations and dishes involved are plenty.Again from an outside view we can't tell if this is true. Actually scratch "outside view", we still need references here.
Desserts include pastries such as Aish as-Saraya, Qatayef, Basbousa, Harees, Kanafeh, baklava, Ka'ak, Sfouf and Maamoul. Lebanese ice cream is popular with its oriental flavors, including Amar al-Din made from dried apricots (can also be eaten as a snack); fresh fruits, and pistachio. Lebanese roasted nuts with a variety of different mixes and flavours can be eaten before, during and after meals.reference again.
The Phoenicians of its coastal strip were instrumental in spreading wine and viticulture throughout the Mediterranean in ancient times. Despite the many conflicts of the region, the country has an annual production of about 6,000,000 cases of wine., reference missing strikes again.
Now I'm going to put it onhold, so you can fix those mistakes and also to have a type of rebuttal if something mentioned above isn't correct, after the said changes are done I will put it on 2ndopinion and I'm not sure as a beginner if I did everything right. Editoneer ( talk) 17:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Ahh, thank you for showing me. Anyways, I do agree that "Dishes and ingredients", "By region" and "Beverages" to be deleted as it's not cited fully and just be replaced with a paragraph that shows what type of food and with the paragraph there... at first thought, I wondered if the nominator could just conveniently source all of them in a single go but now that I think about it... it will surely link the same reference all over again which seems to give a weird feeling that might be a big plan to advertise the site. Editoneer ( talk) 17:43, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you Editoneer and Chiswick Chap for your helpful comments and perspective. I have sourced the majority of said criticisms regarding lack of citations and am now trying to work on the recipes itself and the dishes and ingredients and the regional variants section. I think keeping the dishes and ingredients section is beneficial as I have sourced the majority of the red links and a lot of them already have wiki pages for reference. I think others and I need to work on a introductory paragraph or two explaining and expanding on the dishes and regional variations instead of having two different headers, before listing the dishes as shown on Welsh cuisine, albeit not as many. I think this will take a while, especially as the cuisine is so large for such a small county and the variations have multiplied and adapted into recipes of its own around the world. I will continue to edit it but will have no problems if you take it off the GA nomination Editoneer- i should have become prepared after looking at the Israeli cuisine page, it must have taken a team effort and I'm a one man band! I will try to contact fellow Lebanese wikipedians or other culinary experts regarding this matter, but will continue to work on it regardless. Kind regards, JJNito197 ( talk) 10:52, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Editoneer I have adressed your concerns and am wondering what to do next, please respond. JJNito197 ( talk) 19:23, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
I'll just skip ahead to what I see problematic.
More back comes soon. Editoneer ( talk) 12:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Let me continue before I'm delaying too much.
Animal fat are consumed sparingly.Is there a reference that those fats are restricted in its consumption? Considering the fact that "
Meat is an essential part of Lebanese cuisine."
filo, what is filo pastry? And why isn't it mentioned in the references?
More recently,How recent?
Kibbecapitalized?
Family cuisine also offers a range of dishes, such as stews (or yakhneh), which can be cooked in many forms depending on the ingredients used and are usually served with meat and rice vermicelli.where is the reference?
Ka'ak rings, filled with date paste., as the other images, remove the punctuation mark.
invlolving lamb, do you mean "involving"?
Barout Del Batata – spicy lamb served with potatoes, requires punctuation and reference.
skewer over charcoal, punctuation.
Lebanese beer, alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverage, like what is the difference with the other beers?
Black coffee, can you add a punctuation before the reference?
Le caroubier,how do we know exactly it's called that way? Might require the actual link and reference.
Lebanese wine, alcoholic beverage, again what's the difference with other wines and can you add a punctuation mark?
Turkish coffee, add punctuation.
@ JJNito197:, And done. Editoneer ( talk) 15:12, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Editoneer, thank you very much. To address some which may need a second opinion,
> We might need a reference confirming "المطبخ اللبناني" it means "Lebanese cuisine".
How would one ascertain this, would it need to be through google translate or alike, there is no such citation for the Israeli cuisine lead for example.
> Is the image with Lebanon's location necessary? If so, how does it help picturing its cuisine.
I added this in as a reference to the paragraph in which the previous empires that ruled were given, as it gives context to the proximity of those empires being close (geographically) and helps people in general to whom that are not aware of the location of Lebanon and the history behind the region.
> The references doesn't mention the diasphora, please remove that exact statement if it can't be proven.
The first reference noting the american and european consumers experience in summary says that Lebanese immigration quote 'expanded to modest falafel shops into high end establishments' and how 'noticible difference now seperate Lebanese cuisine from its middle eastern counterparts by combining the sophisticated european cuisine with the exotic ingredients of the middle and far east' this for me encaptulates the the sentence that was written regarding the diaspora with merit however not directly in wording. The second reference gives an example of a dish that was exported to Brazil and Argentina by Lebanese immigrants that explain how the dish evolved to be eaten with 'Beef instead of lamb' (new ingredients) and 'lost its top' (culinary practices). I can give further examples of dishes if this would bolster the point of the sentence.
Will continue to edit - thanks for the help.
Nitpicking:
Arabic coffee.you put the dot inside the link.
Turkish coffee.same issue above.
Editoneer ( talk) 04:22, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
(Checking out the to-do list) Editoneer ( talk) 17:18, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Alright, 4 things to do now: "Babylon", "How Recent", "Yakhneh" and "Vermicelli". Editoneer ( talk) 15:32, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
I will request a second opinion in case I forgot something. Editoneer ( talk) 05:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Editoneer ( talk · contribs) 15:15, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Let's start with the problems.
boys baking bread..., The people making the bread in the images aren't "boys" like in young males, they looks like adults and Wikipedia has a policy of gender-neutral language. If is a reason why males are allowed to bake bread please replace it to "Men" and mention why are men only allowed to bake bread. If isn't something specific, then just put "people".
walnuts or dates, please specify what food is "dates".
Supposed grape presses and jars from the Marriage at Cana, the first miracle attributed to Jesus, Located in Qana, Lebanon, "Supposed" is a Words to Watch, as it expresses doubt, please consider removing it or why is the claim unsure without putting "supposed" in it.
Arak, an anise-flavored liqueur, is the Lebanese national drink and usually served with a traditional convivial Lebanese meal. Another historic and traditional drink is Lebanese wine., reference required here.
This style of serving food is less a part of family life than it is of entertaining and cafés. Mezze may be as simple as raw or pickled vegetables, hummus, baba ghanouj and bread, or it may become an entire meal consisting of grilled marinated seafood, skewered meats, a variety of cooked and raw salads and an arrangement of desserts. Family cuisine offers also a range of dishes, such as stews (or yakhneh), which can be cooked in many forms depending on the ingredients used and are usually served with meat and rice vermicelli. Pita bread is a staple of every Lebanese meal, and can be used in place of a fork., add reference here, even if it sounds well-documented... references are required to avoid original research disputes and the image doesn't provide many information to cover up the whole pharagraph.
Although simple fresh fruits are often served towards the end of a Lebanese meal, there is also dessert, such as baklava and coffee. Although baklava is the most internationally known dessert, there is a great variety of Lebanese desserts., add reference here.
The assortments of dishes forming the mezze are generally consumed in small bites using a piece of Lebanese bread (Khubz, Pita) or a fork. As a family, it is made up of three or four dishes, but in the restaurant, the mezze can range from twenty to sixty dishes, as the varient combinations and dishes involved are plenty.Again from an outside view we can't tell if this is true. Actually scratch "outside view", we still need references here.
Desserts include pastries such as Aish as-Saraya, Qatayef, Basbousa, Harees, Kanafeh, baklava, Ka'ak, Sfouf and Maamoul. Lebanese ice cream is popular with its oriental flavors, including Amar al-Din made from dried apricots (can also be eaten as a snack); fresh fruits, and pistachio. Lebanese roasted nuts with a variety of different mixes and flavours can be eaten before, during and after meals.reference again.
The Phoenicians of its coastal strip were instrumental in spreading wine and viticulture throughout the Mediterranean in ancient times. Despite the many conflicts of the region, the country has an annual production of about 6,000,000 cases of wine., reference missing strikes again.
Now I'm going to put it onhold, so you can fix those mistakes and also to have a type of rebuttal if something mentioned above isn't correct, after the said changes are done I will put it on 2ndopinion and I'm not sure as a beginner if I did everything right. Editoneer ( talk) 17:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Ahh, thank you for showing me. Anyways, I do agree that "Dishes and ingredients", "By region" and "Beverages" to be deleted as it's not cited fully and just be replaced with a paragraph that shows what type of food and with the paragraph there... at first thought, I wondered if the nominator could just conveniently source all of them in a single go but now that I think about it... it will surely link the same reference all over again which seems to give a weird feeling that might be a big plan to advertise the site. Editoneer ( talk) 17:43, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you Editoneer and Chiswick Chap for your helpful comments and perspective. I have sourced the majority of said criticisms regarding lack of citations and am now trying to work on the recipes itself and the dishes and ingredients and the regional variants section. I think keeping the dishes and ingredients section is beneficial as I have sourced the majority of the red links and a lot of them already have wiki pages for reference. I think others and I need to work on a introductory paragraph or two explaining and expanding on the dishes and regional variations instead of having two different headers, before listing the dishes as shown on Welsh cuisine, albeit not as many. I think this will take a while, especially as the cuisine is so large for such a small county and the variations have multiplied and adapted into recipes of its own around the world. I will continue to edit it but will have no problems if you take it off the GA nomination Editoneer- i should have become prepared after looking at the Israeli cuisine page, it must have taken a team effort and I'm a one man band! I will try to contact fellow Lebanese wikipedians or other culinary experts regarding this matter, but will continue to work on it regardless. Kind regards, JJNito197 ( talk) 10:52, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Editoneer I have adressed your concerns and am wondering what to do next, please respond. JJNito197 ( talk) 19:23, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
I'll just skip ahead to what I see problematic.
More back comes soon. Editoneer ( talk) 12:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Let me continue before I'm delaying too much.
Animal fat are consumed sparingly.Is there a reference that those fats are restricted in its consumption? Considering the fact that "
Meat is an essential part of Lebanese cuisine."
filo, what is filo pastry? And why isn't it mentioned in the references?
More recently,How recent?
Kibbecapitalized?
Family cuisine also offers a range of dishes, such as stews (or yakhneh), which can be cooked in many forms depending on the ingredients used and are usually served with meat and rice vermicelli.where is the reference?
Ka'ak rings, filled with date paste., as the other images, remove the punctuation mark.
invlolving lamb, do you mean "involving"?
Barout Del Batata – spicy lamb served with potatoes, requires punctuation and reference.
skewer over charcoal, punctuation.
Lebanese beer, alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverage, like what is the difference with the other beers?
Black coffee, can you add a punctuation before the reference?
Le caroubier,how do we know exactly it's called that way? Might require the actual link and reference.
Lebanese wine, alcoholic beverage, again what's the difference with other wines and can you add a punctuation mark?
Turkish coffee, add punctuation.
@ JJNito197:, And done. Editoneer ( talk) 15:12, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Editoneer, thank you very much. To address some which may need a second opinion,
> We might need a reference confirming "المطبخ اللبناني" it means "Lebanese cuisine".
How would one ascertain this, would it need to be through google translate or alike, there is no such citation for the Israeli cuisine lead for example.
> Is the image with Lebanon's location necessary? If so, how does it help picturing its cuisine.
I added this in as a reference to the paragraph in which the previous empires that ruled were given, as it gives context to the proximity of those empires being close (geographically) and helps people in general to whom that are not aware of the location of Lebanon and the history behind the region.
> The references doesn't mention the diasphora, please remove that exact statement if it can't be proven.
The first reference noting the american and european consumers experience in summary says that Lebanese immigration quote 'expanded to modest falafel shops into high end establishments' and how 'noticible difference now seperate Lebanese cuisine from its middle eastern counterparts by combining the sophisticated european cuisine with the exotic ingredients of the middle and far east' this for me encaptulates the the sentence that was written regarding the diaspora with merit however not directly in wording. The second reference gives an example of a dish that was exported to Brazil and Argentina by Lebanese immigrants that explain how the dish evolved to be eaten with 'Beef instead of lamb' (new ingredients) and 'lost its top' (culinary practices). I can give further examples of dishes if this would bolster the point of the sentence.
Will continue to edit - thanks for the help.
Nitpicking:
Arabic coffee.you put the dot inside the link.
Turkish coffee.same issue above.
Editoneer ( talk) 04:22, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
(Checking out the to-do list) Editoneer ( talk) 17:18, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Alright, 4 things to do now: "Babylon", "How Recent", "Yakhneh" and "Vermicelli". Editoneer ( talk) 15:32, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
I will request a second opinion in case I forgot something. Editoneer ( talk) 05:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)