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Bittaker bought a 1977 GMC cargo van, which they came to call 'Murder Mack', because it had no side windows in the back and a large passenger side sliding door.
I think it would make more sense to point out that they nicknamed it Murder Mack and then give a description of what it looked like (saying they nicknamed it "because of" its features makes little sense) but I am not comfortable making the change because the second half of the sentance makes no sense. I'm assuming it had no windows at all but I don't want to say that if I cannot verify it. I'll do some research if I have the time but if anyone knows for sure, please make the change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.67.97.117 ( talk) 15:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Where does the Dalton name come from? I'm watching a documentary about this, and they claim a different person in prison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.84.236.12 ( talk) 00:01, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
This article can't be written like a crime novel as one long narrative. This is an encyclopedia and all statements of fact have to be backed up with sources. How do you know what happened in their childhoods? How do you know how they killed their victims or why they put a body on the lawn of someone's house?
This article assumes omniscience, that the author(s) of this piece just happened to know all of this is true and THIS is the way things happened. This is not an obscure crime, one of the killer is on Death Row and I'm sure that the trial was a big deal in the early 1980s. It should not be difficult to find news stories on this series of murders and provide some verification for the timeline that you came up with.
Knowing the killers' motivation (and the suggestion of an incestuous relationship between one killer and his mother?) will take more work to try to substantiate. But both of these criminals are still alive and WP:BLP applies. Bottom line? You can't say someone had sex with their mother or killed people without providing some documentation demonstrating that this is true. 69.125.134.86 ( talk) 21:21, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Is this level of detail necessary? How is this encyclopedic? All this is getting way too far down into the weeds of details here, well beyond what's expected of an encyclopedia article. The stuff about their motivations and stuff, fine I suppose. This is useful for someone researching this sort of thing. The basic facts of their actions, fine, this is useful for someone researching the subject. The rest gets into prurience and someone is truly that interested in that level of detail we can point to the source material, same as we do for any other subject. Herostratus ( talk) 17:10, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
'To one of these psychiatrists, Bittaker explained that his acknowledged criminal activities gave him a feeling of self-importance, although he insisted circumstantial matters increased his ability to resist committing crimes...'
This article, in all its gory detail, will no doubt be used as a template by some deranged person(s) in the future. I heartily object to the inclusion of the gory, blow-by-blow details of these crimes. The article needs to be rewritten in a way that confers the facts without the superfluous details. Seligne ( talk) 11:59, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
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Page Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris; Aftermath; states
Although Norris readily admitted that he enjoyed the intercourse with the victims, he claimed only Bittaker enjoyed the acts of torture and murder, stating: "I didn't enjoy killing—that was Lawrence [Bittaker].
How is rape intercourse? You are not quoting the Rapist/Murderer so to state that it is intercourse is a lie, false statement and degrading the victims.
Relying on implicit bias of people who think rape is intercourse is disgusting. 2601:981:4400:63B2:B14A:532D:5120:8CD8 ( talk) 15:03, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
It is far too detailed to be actually informative and borders torture porn. We do not need to have a transcript of what the Shirley tape contained, much less what the perpetrators found of it. This is an example of unencyclopedic behavior bordering on true crime sensationalism. 2804:389:EC:402D:0:5:35A7:F001 ( talk) 20:51, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
The article says that Norris was sentenced to 45 years to life, but the same section says that he would be eligible in 2010, which would mean that he was sentenced to 30 years to life. I changed this, but it was reverted, so I decided to bring it to attention here and maybe get an answer. Comitialbulb561 ( talk) 00:02, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Bittaker bought a 1977 GMC cargo van, which they came to call 'Murder Mack', because it had no side windows in the back and a large passenger side sliding door.
I think it would make more sense to point out that they nicknamed it Murder Mack and then give a description of what it looked like (saying they nicknamed it "because of" its features makes little sense) but I am not comfortable making the change because the second half of the sentance makes no sense. I'm assuming it had no windows at all but I don't want to say that if I cannot verify it. I'll do some research if I have the time but if anyone knows for sure, please make the change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.67.97.117 ( talk) 15:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Where does the Dalton name come from? I'm watching a documentary about this, and they claim a different person in prison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.84.236.12 ( talk) 00:01, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
This article can't be written like a crime novel as one long narrative. This is an encyclopedia and all statements of fact have to be backed up with sources. How do you know what happened in their childhoods? How do you know how they killed their victims or why they put a body on the lawn of someone's house?
This article assumes omniscience, that the author(s) of this piece just happened to know all of this is true and THIS is the way things happened. This is not an obscure crime, one of the killer is on Death Row and I'm sure that the trial was a big deal in the early 1980s. It should not be difficult to find news stories on this series of murders and provide some verification for the timeline that you came up with.
Knowing the killers' motivation (and the suggestion of an incestuous relationship between one killer and his mother?) will take more work to try to substantiate. But both of these criminals are still alive and WP:BLP applies. Bottom line? You can't say someone had sex with their mother or killed people without providing some documentation demonstrating that this is true. 69.125.134.86 ( talk) 21:21, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Is this level of detail necessary? How is this encyclopedic? All this is getting way too far down into the weeds of details here, well beyond what's expected of an encyclopedia article. The stuff about their motivations and stuff, fine I suppose. This is useful for someone researching this sort of thing. The basic facts of their actions, fine, this is useful for someone researching the subject. The rest gets into prurience and someone is truly that interested in that level of detail we can point to the source material, same as we do for any other subject. Herostratus ( talk) 17:10, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
'To one of these psychiatrists, Bittaker explained that his acknowledged criminal activities gave him a feeling of self-importance, although he insisted circumstantial matters increased his ability to resist committing crimes...'
This article, in all its gory detail, will no doubt be used as a template by some deranged person(s) in the future. I heartily object to the inclusion of the gory, blow-by-blow details of these crimes. The article needs to be rewritten in a way that confers the facts without the superfluous details. Seligne ( talk) 11:59, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:23, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
Page Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris; Aftermath; states
Although Norris readily admitted that he enjoyed the intercourse with the victims, he claimed only Bittaker enjoyed the acts of torture and murder, stating: "I didn't enjoy killing—that was Lawrence [Bittaker].
How is rape intercourse? You are not quoting the Rapist/Murderer so to state that it is intercourse is a lie, false statement and degrading the victims.
Relying on implicit bias of people who think rape is intercourse is disgusting. 2601:981:4400:63B2:B14A:532D:5120:8CD8 ( talk) 15:03, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
It is far too detailed to be actually informative and borders torture porn. We do not need to have a transcript of what the Shirley tape contained, much less what the perpetrators found of it. This is an example of unencyclopedic behavior bordering on true crime sensationalism. 2804:389:EC:402D:0:5:35A7:F001 ( talk) 20:51, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
The article says that Norris was sentenced to 45 years to life, but the same section says that he would be eligible in 2010, which would mean that he was sentenced to 30 years to life. I changed this, but it was reverted, so I decided to bring it to attention here and maybe get an answer. Comitialbulb561 ( talk) 00:02, 2 September 2023 (UTC)