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"PiS is in fact an ultra right party which carries echo's of the German Nazi party's policies before the second world war." That's a pretty extreme statement. No one is going to debate whether Poland has just voted for Nazis or not? 68.218.182.215 21:44, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
It's not just extreme, it's NPOV and removed. Trilemma 22:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Do we really need a special section: "Attitude to homosexuals' political and job rights" in this article? It is important, but there are much more interesting things about PiS to mention (social and taxes policy, foreign policy, atitude to European Union). Homosexual's rights aren't nowadays the main political question in Poland. Morover, PiS isn't so homophobic party as some people would maintain.
Warschauer 02:28, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Unless a complete, detailed description of a broad base of PiS's platform is created, continuing concentration on one smaller aspect is inapropriate. Trilemma 01:55, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm absolutely shocked on how little information is put in the party's political program. Other parties, like the demokraci, have so much written on them, but that party barely got any vote. It would be like not talking about the Democrats but a lot of information on the Green Party of USA. Viktor
Hi. I'll leave the editing to others. Check this out - an official English summary of PiS's policies. http://www.pis.org.pl/dokumenty/PiS_Press_Release.pdf
Just a quick note for the paragraphs below: PiS refers to Prawo i Sprawiedliwość (Law and Justice), and PO refers to Platforma Obywatelska (The Citizen's Platform aka Civic Platform)
I would also encourage editors to treat suggestions that this party is socialist with scepticism. Their proposition to scrap the 40% upper tax band, reduce the lower one by 1% to 18% and progressively reduce the 32% middle band to 28% is quite a radical reduction in taxes. They also want to gradually reduce the upper VAT level from the current 22%. One should expect a certain degree of social spending from a centre-right party. They also support privatisation, which has been considered an overwhelming failure by many Poles. This can hardly be called socialist, and this was probably a media overreaction to their opposition to the 15% flat tax of the Citizen's Platform, which was favoured by the media, and, in addition, PiS's electoral campaign, which did play on the fears of ordinary Poles WRT the proposition of the rival party to scrap most forms of tax relief.
They have a program called "Tanie Państwo" which literally means "Cheap State." It is summarised as "ograniczenie wydatków na administację państwową, rządową i samorządową," lit. "the reduction of state, government and local government administration expenditures." PiS considers the government bureaucracy to be extensive, inefficient and corrupt and proposes, among other things, a 20% reduction in employment in the administration.
This party also portrays itself as fiercely anti-communist and purportedly wants to reduce the role that former communist special service agents play in the state.
There are also two viewpoints with regard to why coalition talks collapsed. On the one hand, PO supporters and the vast majority of media suggest that this was due to the incompatibility of the two parties' programs WRT social spending, and in addition due to the triumphalism and inability to compromise of the winning party, while PiS supporters and a small number of right wing media outlets are keen to remind the reader that PO was offered half of all government posts and that the whole thing collapsed over MSWiA (the ministry of internal affairs and administration) - something neither party would compromise on. They suspect that this was because PO wanted to keep the current special service elite in place.
Like I said, I'll let others do the editing. There is quite a lot of controversy regarding the elections in Poland, and I'd suggest the authors be as neutral as possible. I tried to represent more of PiS's take on things above, since I think that that POV is underrepresented. I hope that this'll be useful and will help y'all. Michael
Description of ideology in infobox is a joke, someone called the PiS a nationalist party, does not mean that it is. These are not serious sources in this matter.The basis is the party's program and political situation, and it is such that the only nationalist party in Poland (1% of support) is the enemy of the PiS and fights it. JackStrong12 ( talk) 14:16, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
It was a good idea to provide an international comparison for the party, but whoever keeps editing it back to say that the PiS is similar to the German CSU or the Austrian OVP should stop putting their subjective judgment into a neutral article. The PiS is certainly more to the left on economic issues than the German CSU and Austrian OVP, and certainly further to the right on cultural issues than both these parties. The European Parliament allows parties across Europe with similar political programs to group together, and so the most neutral thing to say is simply that the PiS is affiliated through the Union for a Europe of Nations (UEN) with parties such as Italy's Alleanza Nazionale.
This article does not appear to be written from a neutral point of view. Hence, I have added that template at the top. As background: This is a very mainstream political party which gathered about 27% of the votes in recent elections, and apparently has even higher support in opinion polls now.
However, in this article we find e.g.:
Don't get me wrong, here, I'm not a fan of PiS in any respect, and would never vote for them (don't you vote for them either! ;-)), but the bizzare impression I get from reading this article is that its a smear campaign against Poland rather than a factual article. Deuar 18:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
"On 10 April 2010, its former leader Lech Kaczyński was killed in the 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash." - This line suggests that Lech Kaczyński has been killed/murdered purposely, rather than the crash being an accident. Shouldn't it change to "On 10 April 2012, its former leader Lech Kaczyński died in the 2012 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash."? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.68.202 ( talk) 12:25, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
i have written the IRI reference as:
Deuar: i suggest you read the IRI's own claims for having largely organised the AWS: http://www.iri.org/countries.asp?id=8369274321 Have a look through their web site. It is not just some IRI, it is a USA federal budget funded institution involved in regime change around the world. Whether this method of regime change is good or bad is a POV. The fact that the IRI (and the Democrats' NDI) is involved in regime change, or from its point of view, promotion of democracy, i.e. funding center-right political parties, is an NPOV fact. Boud 00:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
When the militarily most powerful country on this planet sets up organisations to get involved in the national politics of other countries, i hardly think that is irrelevant to the political scene. It may not be widely known, but there is no evidence to suggest that it is exaggerated.
i'm putting the reference into the history section. It is not trivial when the militarily most powerful country on this planet sets up organisations to get involved in the national politics of other countries and then those organisations actually do get involved in those national politics. Boud 01:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Attitude to homosexuals' political and job rights and Government Representative for the Equal Status of Women and Men are not criticisms of PiS: they are a list of things that happened and/or were stated, which show parts of PiS' political program - whether or not they show PiS as good or bad is a PoV. The fact that they are actions by Kaczyński and by PiS are NPOV facts. Boud 01:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
With the aim of making this article less lopsided, i'm in the process of translating the information in the more extensive article from the Polish wikipedia. Also, I have moved the existing part on policies regarding gay and equal opportunity rights to its own section. The aim of that move is to achieve a general review of topics in the "political program" section (balanced with respect to completeness), without removing the coverage of the particular issues which have attracted so much attention in the english language article. Deuar 12:05, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
A ja bede muwił po wiejskiej odmianie polskiego: PiS najlepszoł partioł jest (na drugim miejscu som: LPR i Samoobrona)
Describing the PiS as "conservative" is simply misleading, as the party advocates very different policies from those of conservative parties of Europe, including aggressive nationalism, homophobia and anti-semitism - it clearly has close ties to the anti-semitic broadcaster Radio Maryja. I would compare the PiS to the NPD of Germany rather than the conservative CDU.
It is more appropriate to describe it as nationalist, and obviously anti-semitic connections should not be erased from the article. Skruee 15:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
it's national conservative
I have to agreed this is national conservative. And i disagree that conservatism equals homophobia and anti-semitism - it's totaly not true of course as far as we talk about Polish conservatism. Examle - Polish President (PiS related) in synagogue.
I think a political party is a "long lasting" phenomenon so adding a particular year category is somehow misleading. I guess you meant the creation of the party. Still, the qualification is doubious for me. I could elaborate on it. But let me simply suggest that maybe a "long lasting" category would suit better ("XXI century" or so)? Personally, I'd refrain from even giving this cat - as it is not clear now whether Law and Justice (or any other party) is relevant enough to this. Best, -- Beaumont (@) 12:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Could any one provide any academic references and soruces to the PiS characterization as far-left, before he or she reinserts this categorization. C mon 00:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
No, this isn´t any vandalism. It gives a clear definition of "anti-german" from german "Verfassungsschutz", which fulfil PiS. And the "Verfassungsschutz" tells, that "anti-german" is far-left. Deutscher Patriot 13:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
They are far-left when it comes to economic issues, far-right when it comes to religion or nationalism. - KiloByte ( talk) 22:38, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
This whole section and its subsections are getting out of date. They seem to have been written in the heat of the moment soon after PiS formed government about a year ago. Also, the Social issues subsection is pretty embarassing for a serious encyclopedia. It covers only a tiny fragment of relevant issues, and the choice of what topics were covered suffers from a painfully obvious political lean. Deuar 15:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Regarding recent edits of infobox as to whether the party should be considered conservatives or national conservatives. In the National conservative article:
Note the word "mainly" which was italicised here by me. PiS is not mainly concerned with these issues, although as we know they do form some significant part of their attitude, sure. The above definition is well applicable to the League of Polish Families, though.
Please do not suppose that you can get a balanced view of the internal politics of some country by reading a couple of random foreign media articles. They understandably concentrate only on those few things which will be unusual, shocking, or otherwise of interest to overseas people who mostly care nothing about local Polish issues. Normal everyday issues are alomst never covered in such articles, although they form the bulk of the politics of mainstream parties, among them the "Law and Justice" party. Deuar 14:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
AEN is a very loose group (launched by very moderate-conservative and economically liberal Fianna Fail, but, anyway, AN is trying to enter in the EPP. On the issues, AN supports strongly US, Israel and European integration, it is economically liberal (but less than Forza Italia, though) and its leader Fini is a supporter of stem cell research and civil unions. The party is anyway national-conservative because of its strong patriotism and its mixed record in the economy (sometimes liberal, sometimes statist). What is sure is that AN is more centrist compared with PiS. -- Checco 14:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
"Human Rights Watch, for instance, called a government proposal to ban discussions of homosexuality in school a threat to basic rights." That is correct, but you should remember that this article is about Law and Justice party, and that proposal came from deputy education minister Mirosław Orzechowski, whose party is League of Polish Families, so it is inappropriate to put this on account of PiS.
"Reporters Without Borders, in its annual report, noted the governing party's intolerance of criticism and the privilege it grants to Radio Maryja..." Where in this raport do you see any notion about giving them "privileges"? In case of "intolerance of criticism", it was one case when they reacted on offence from die Tageszeitung, so this sentence is gravely exaggerated.
"The press freedom organization became especially alarmed in the Summer of 2007, when revelations about alleged wiretapping of journalists by the special service began to surface". That's right - alleged... These accusations came from Janusz Kaczmarek, former communist party ( PZPR) member, trained as a political officer during communist rule in Poland, who was proven lying when testifying under oath, when he was accused of taking part in a leak about an anti-corruption operation against another former communist party member, Andrzej Lepper. He started to accuse government about these things just after when he was sacked from his post as interior minister under the charges of warning Lepper about the operation. He concealed informations about his communist past before prime minister and president, which were revealed only recently. Second person who was mentioned in the the reference when talking about alleged wiretaping was Sylwester Latkowski, journalist of post-communist weekly Polityka, in which few persons of editorial team were proven to be former agents of secret police during the time of PRL.
"The Helsinki Foundation for Human Rights is a frequent critic of the party's policies. It has challenged government's actions on numerous occasions, on issues ranging from freedom of assembly, reproductive rights, and the rights of the accused..." - in case of freedom of assembly, it was about cancelling few Gay Pride Parades due to security concerns (possible clashes with far-right organizations); reproductive rights - it is euphemism which means abortion, and it is a scandal that this organization is using a cover of fighting for Human Rigths in order to impose left-wing agenda to its member countries; rights of the accused - is suggests that situation in Poland is similar to that of Putin's Russia - trials with no right to defence, imprisonment of political oponents etc. but the truth is that this accusations of breaking "rights of the accused" was in the case of doctor who was accused of fifty criminal offences and killing his patient, for which he was arrested.
"According to Reporters Without Borders, in 2006 Poland was ranked lowest of the then 25 EU members in their worldwide press freedom ranking, due to the perceived considerable institutional pressure exerted by those in power on the news media" - well i would say that situation is rather opposite, as before 2005 there was a considerable institutional pressure on centre-right and right-wing newspapers, and very few journalist of right-wing views were invited to the public television. Now situation is more balanced; of course, sometimes there are sharp verbal skirmishes between government figures and some journalist (mostly left-wing), but this is only rhetorics.
"In an editorial written following the arrest of an opposition figure, Adam Michnik, the editor-in-chief and dissident during communist times, said that he no long feel safe in Poland. "The Rubicon has been crossed; the Rubicon separating a law-governed democracy from the country of a creeping coup d'etat," he wrote." That "opposition figure" was Janusz Kaczmarek, who was accused of (and proven) of hindering of corruption trial. Adam Michnik is misusing his position of former dissident to attack his political opponents in foreign press. A former trotskyist, as an editor-in-chief he often used his Gazeta Wyborcza (until recently) dominant position on newspaper market to destroy many right-wing politicians with very unfavourable articles, and giving them no right to reply on Wyborcza's pages. If we would seek a person in polish political life who is showing signs of "intolerance of criticism", that person would be Adam Michnik, who files a lawsuits against almost everyone who dares to criticize him in public. His words about "creeping coup d'etat" were simply a lie, but the problem is that his statements in foreign media are rarely balanced by journalists and politicians of opposite political views.
"Former president Lech Wałęsa has called for the arrest of the Kaczyński brothers. "They have broken so many laws, they deserve to go to jail." Commenting on the increasing authoritarian methods the PiS government, the former leader of the Solidarity Movement said that "they are ready to impose martial martial law" to order to hold onto power." Former president Wałęsa is known of making numerous gaffes in his comments, and there are not many people in Poland who are taking them serious. He is not anyone significant in contemporary polish politics, and while he may have played a significant role in defeating communism in Poland, it turned out after '89 that he was a politician who was (and unfortunately still is) often driven by personal animosities in his judgments, and case of Kaczyński government isn't an exception.
This whole section is very biased and defamatory, and it's intention was to describe PiS as very authoritarian and undemocratic party... It is something normal to criticize politicians, but in Wikipedia we should write only about criticism which can be taken serious, and we should write about it in such a way to avoid any bias, no matter left- or right-wing. Ammon86 17:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
As PiS is ceasing to be the governing party in Poland, a lot of stuff in the article is no longer pertinent. The party's attitude towards homosexuals mattered greatly when it could force through laws unfavorable towards them. Now that it's removed, I see little reason to detail every occasion where Kaczynski &co displayed their homofobia. Chernyshevsky 23:50, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I believe it is wrong that PiS is compared to British National Party as it is NOT against immigration and does not have any such views, no citation also exists —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tadeusz007 ( talk • contribs) 01:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was
Law and Justice → Law and Justice Party (Poland) —
There are many "Law and Justice" parties in the world, and the term "Law and Justice" is used for many things. Further, the abbreviation "PiS" is also used in English for this party. This is definitely not the primary usage of the term "law and justice" in English, and the party should be moved, and replaced with a dab page.
70.29.208.247 ( talk) 11:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Christian Democratic parties in the European Union are usually members of the European People’s Party in the EU Parliament, e.g. the German CDU, French Union for a Popular Movement, Italian The People of Freedom and the Polish Civic Platform. The PiS is not a member of the EPP nor is the PiS associated to any of the resp. national parties. The PiS is instead a co-founder of the right wing, euro-sceptic Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists in the European Parliament. Probably “Christian Democratic” was supposed to describe the importance of the Catholic faith and Catholic positions for the PiS, this doesn’t make her positions “Christian Democratic” per common definition. However, a reliable source should be used to support the current claim, otherwise it should be removed HerkusMonte ( talk) 09:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
The article wrongly claims that PiS is a conservative/national conservative/christian democratic party. In fact, it has nothing to do with neither conservatism nor democracy. It is best described as fascist (economic socialism plus supremacy of the state over individual) or national socialist 85.89.170.22 ( talk) 02:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
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Ziobro's supporters, most of whom on the right-wing of the party
Ziobro supporters were the most left-wing members of Law and Justice. Jacek Kurski openely claimed to be social democrat, and Tadeusz Cymański also said that "it is not to be ashamed to be socialist".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrafQpcZkUw
http://www.konserwatyzm.pl/artykul/4572/kolor-czerwony-wcale-nie-jest-brzydki-rozmowa-z-europoslem-t
Even if their views on homosexuals or abortion are more conservative it's rather exaggerated to say that they are "from the right-wing of the party".
W.J.M. ( talk) 16:06, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
...and what it would like to be seen as.
Going by these discussions, PiS is chiefly about gayism and homophobia. I wish you guys said something more about PiS's line on more --- excuse me --- serious issues, such as health care (you say it is in favour of a state-run system, but that is hardly specific for PiS), education, old age pensions and this kind of stuff. PiS often portrays itself as the Party of the 'losers', the disenfranchised, the not-so-glamorous, the elderly and such.... Is that just an alibi or a masquerade? I understand that you are mostly rich uncommitted youngsters (or ones who have stayed youngsters) but to us old and useless PiS is, perhaps wrongly, interesting for reasons not connected with gayism and abortion. 78.49.202.26 ( talk) 19:27, 31 May 2013 (UTC) wimp
Quite a bit has changed for PiS recently. They revealed a new platform which has considerably more socialist policies than earlier (more redistribution of wealth, state-run factories, National Employment Program, etc.) - generally a huge expansion of government. Their free-market wing has pretty much dissipated too, especially with the key pro-capitalist MP Przemysław Wipler leaving the party and announcing that he's going to work with Poland Together and the Congress of the New Right. I think this really shifts them to the left, and if one really wants to argue that they're still right-wing due to their social conservatism, then these events at least deserve a mention. Thoughts? Photon man62 ( talk) 19:01, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
What is the Law and Justice platform's position on homosexuality? Though there is a section in the page for this topic, it does not actually discuss the platform and only includes incendiary comments made by representatives. Additionally, the PiS positions on health care needs to be expanded beyond 6 words. Finally, the entire sections needs some cite able material. I would add material myself; however, I neither speak nor read Polish so any material I collect would be secondary to tertiary at best. Assuming the party has an official platform, would anyone be willing to look at it and then include primary citations? CopperPhoenix ( talk) 14:19, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
In Polish it is: Prawo i Sprawiedliwość (PiS). In English probably it shoud be:
Justice and Righteousness as in Bible(?). For example Jr 33:15. C12 ( talk) 20:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Ever since PiS won the 2015 Polish parliamentary election and formed the current government, it has made a lot of changes and I have heard in the news about some of the controversies. Why doesn't this article cover PiS's activities as the ruling party since the election? -- 1990'sguy ( talk) 15:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi everybody! The Law and Justice's ideology is the Statism, Anti-communism, Euroscepticism and Anti-abortion. The Statism is the biggest ideology in the United Russia's ideology and the Law and Justice's ideology's. The party hates the liberal conservative and the islamist ideology. The party's ideology is the Statism, like the United Russia's ideology. -- ViceCity343 ( talk) 16:53, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
How are they center-right, regardless of sources their hard right at a minimum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.81.47.10 ( talk) 22:07, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
who wrote this section? it's prejudiced and tendentious. Part "Hate crimes such as arson and physical violence have occurred in Poland" is a complete nonsense. its far from a neutral point of the view!
I took a long break from monitoring this page, and it seems like the ideology section doubled in size - with a lot of overlap between labels (ex. State Interventionism and Economic Nationalism). I believe it best to reduce the number of tags; however, I'd prefer to not act unilaterally. Can we as editors to come to an agreement on cutting the section down to, say, five labels with clear pertinence to PiS? CopperPhoenix ( talk) 18:35, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Ok, you wanted to talk. What do you suggest as a compromise? I have no objection to the sources, just the outsized number of ideolgies. CopperPhoenix ( talk) 03:29, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Here are some sources for the selected ideologies:
For more sources see also these wiki articles:
-- 84.226.141.191 ( talk) 12:24, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
@ CopperPhoenix and Jay942942: Sorry to dismantle your consensus, but the references for Christian democracy are not sufficient. The German-language book by Hierlemann (2005) does not characterise PiS as a Christian-democratic party. It merely states that some PiS lawmakers view themselves as Christian democrats, but the author does not affirm this claim. The other is a (probably cherry-picked) news article by Austrian public broadcasting. PiS is a well-researched subject among political scientists, there are lots of expert books and journal articles, so why should we base the ideologic classification of this party on a random news article? Political scientists Christian Bale and Aleks Szczerbiak have published a study titled "Why is there no Christian Democracy in Poland (and why does this matter)?", where they demonstrate that PiS is not a genuinely Christian-democratic party. So, this is at least disputed and should not be affirmatively stated in the infobox and introductory sentence of the article. -- RJFF ( talk) 15:05, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Over the next few months, I plan on overhauling the PiS article to make it more readable and it's format in line with similar pages. I plan on borrowing much of the content and citations from the polish wiki. Just a head's up. Don't be startled by any massive deletions or additions in the near future. CopperPhoenix ( talk) 04:08, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
It appears that this article is heavily influenced by foreign hijackers with some apparent unhealthy interests in Polish democracy, with an aching for comparisons with other parties across Europe as if this was some kind of competition. Poles know that domestically PiS is described as centre-right and PO is described as centre-left, or more often PO as liberal and PiS as conservative, even though on some apparently necessary comparisons to Europe, both are conservative. What Western European media think is simply irrelevant, in my opinion.
No Polish media, regardless of their political alignment, would call PiS right-wing. So why is that (or even some designations as "far right") taken seriously? Indeed, the Polish article for this party does not even state "right-wing" once.
I propose we change the article to "centre-right" as outlined across Polish media and fully disregard any links from Western media. https://wypracowania24.pl/wos/3453/partie-chadeckie-definicja-charakterystyka http://naszemiasto.pl/artykul/czy-pis-jest-partia-prawicowa,4509190,art,t,id,tm.html http://wyborcza.pl/7,75398,23895905,prof-antoni-dudek-platforma-przegrywa-z-pis-walke-o-centroprawice.html?disableRedirects=true https://dorzeczy.pl/kraj/59579/PiS-daleko-od-prawicy.html http://www.newsweek.pl/polska/wyniki-sondazy-wyborczych-kto-jet-w-polsce-prawica-i-lewica,artykuly,365729,1.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by RevolutionizeSeven ( talk • contribs) 16:30, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Regional assemblies 2018 News: TVP: PiS triumphs in Polish local elections 21.10.2018
I would like to add this to the section Regional assemblies 2018 - ok? -- 0e7s ( talk) 19:42, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Here are some recent news:
-- 84.226.141.191 ( talk) 12:11, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Political position per disc and consensus is "Centre-right". See discs sections above and Political spectrum. -- 84.226.141.191 ( talk) 09:46, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
PiS political position is described across all major sources by the overwhelming majority as "Conservative" = centre-rigth vs. right-wing It includes Media of all types: public/private & conservative/left-wing/far-left & small/big & national/international
Please see below an excerpt of available sources for "conservative PiS". I will change it in the article accordingly. -- ObserverEU ( talk) 22:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
-- ObserverEU ( talk) 06:47, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
-- ObserverEU ( talk) 23:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Reuters, AP, AFP: more than 4 thousand news for „conservative PiS“ here an excerpt:
-- ObserverEU ( talk) 22:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
-- Jay942942 ( talk) 15:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Thnx for these additional news as sources. I will review them. It seems to me normal that on a political party there will be a wide diversity of opinions/news. There are more than 4.000 news from the 3 major press agancies only stating "conservative PiS". My understanding is that we strive for neutral point of view and be balanced based on verfified sources. Please review the talk page and especially the provided evidence summarized here PiS#Centre-right. -- ObserverEU ( talk) 16:50, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
The entire, long standing section, on Homophobia has been removed with a false edit summary that I added it (I did expand). We do not closet LGBT issues into an "LGBT rights" article - but rather cover where relevant. Homophobia has been a major party plank since inception, and in the 2019 elections it is the party's main platform issue, A vast number of RSes, international coverage, have been covering the homophibic incitement in the past few months. We follow sources and this is clearly DUE, and probably should be in the lead as well. Icewhiz ( talk) 05:50, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
References
PiS is not a Far-right party. There is no evidence of the government pushing through any sort of systemic crackdown on minorities or planning to leave the European Union. Konfederacja is a Polish party that is undisputably far right. Poland is a member of the European Union, and market rules must be followed. Communism is illegal here in Poland. PiS is not a "nationalist" or Anti-EU party either. Poland does not seek to destroy the union, they just have deep divisions with EU elites on courts, climate, and forced migration. None of this is outside of any sort of democratic parameters. accept the rules of the single market and do not oppose free trade agreements, so you can throw out the "economic nationalist" part. I don't agree with Poland's ruling party on many things, but this is taking it to extremes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.11.32.101 ( talk) 20:29, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
@
78.11.32.101:
I suggest you to read
WP:POINT. After reading it I wish you could know why your edit is reverting. Jeff6045
22:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Need to be extremely cautious to avoid WP:CHERRY, especially from the 2015-2016 election period. Later reporting seems to consistently avoid the "far right" label, so readily used in 2016, instead stressing PiS's "left-inspired" economic policies [7] [8] [9] [10]. All in all, newer sources indicated that slapping a "far right" label to PiS would be factually incorrect. — kashmīrī TALK 10:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
References
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:26, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
@ ObserverEU:, @ 78.11.32.101:, @ Ezhao02:, @ Jeff6045:, @ Tomasz Magierowski:, @ MozeTak:, @ Rotesdiadem:, @ Kashmiri:, @ RJFF:, @ 5.81.47.10:
There are sources describing this party as "centre-right", "right-wing" and "far-right". Currently, the infobox political position says "right-wing to far-right". I would like to gauge support for a change in the position to either "Centre-right to right-wing with far-right factions", as was done on the Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) page when a similar dilemma arose, or simply "Right-wing" as the middle ground between "centre-right and "far right", as was done on the Bharatiya Janata Party page. Both of these changes have been previously suggested on this talk page as potential new consensus positions.
Which of the following three political positions is best suited for this article's infobox?
I think "Right-wing" is best, since it is cleaner than the second option. However, unlike the status quo, it allows readers to more easily make a distinction with Confederation Liberty and Independence, United Poland and other significant movements in the country that are further to the right of PiS without being purely "far-right". -- Jay942942 ( talk) 15:06, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
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"PiS is in fact an ultra right party which carries echo's of the German Nazi party's policies before the second world war." That's a pretty extreme statement. No one is going to debate whether Poland has just voted for Nazis or not? 68.218.182.215 21:44, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
It's not just extreme, it's NPOV and removed. Trilemma 22:39, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Do we really need a special section: "Attitude to homosexuals' political and job rights" in this article? It is important, but there are much more interesting things about PiS to mention (social and taxes policy, foreign policy, atitude to European Union). Homosexual's rights aren't nowadays the main political question in Poland. Morover, PiS isn't so homophobic party as some people would maintain.
Warschauer 02:28, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Unless a complete, detailed description of a broad base of PiS's platform is created, continuing concentration on one smaller aspect is inapropriate. Trilemma 01:55, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm absolutely shocked on how little information is put in the party's political program. Other parties, like the demokraci, have so much written on them, but that party barely got any vote. It would be like not talking about the Democrats but a lot of information on the Green Party of USA. Viktor
Hi. I'll leave the editing to others. Check this out - an official English summary of PiS's policies. http://www.pis.org.pl/dokumenty/PiS_Press_Release.pdf
Just a quick note for the paragraphs below: PiS refers to Prawo i Sprawiedliwość (Law and Justice), and PO refers to Platforma Obywatelska (The Citizen's Platform aka Civic Platform)
I would also encourage editors to treat suggestions that this party is socialist with scepticism. Their proposition to scrap the 40% upper tax band, reduce the lower one by 1% to 18% and progressively reduce the 32% middle band to 28% is quite a radical reduction in taxes. They also want to gradually reduce the upper VAT level from the current 22%. One should expect a certain degree of social spending from a centre-right party. They also support privatisation, which has been considered an overwhelming failure by many Poles. This can hardly be called socialist, and this was probably a media overreaction to their opposition to the 15% flat tax of the Citizen's Platform, which was favoured by the media, and, in addition, PiS's electoral campaign, which did play on the fears of ordinary Poles WRT the proposition of the rival party to scrap most forms of tax relief.
They have a program called "Tanie Państwo" which literally means "Cheap State." It is summarised as "ograniczenie wydatków na administację państwową, rządową i samorządową," lit. "the reduction of state, government and local government administration expenditures." PiS considers the government bureaucracy to be extensive, inefficient and corrupt and proposes, among other things, a 20% reduction in employment in the administration.
This party also portrays itself as fiercely anti-communist and purportedly wants to reduce the role that former communist special service agents play in the state.
There are also two viewpoints with regard to why coalition talks collapsed. On the one hand, PO supporters and the vast majority of media suggest that this was due to the incompatibility of the two parties' programs WRT social spending, and in addition due to the triumphalism and inability to compromise of the winning party, while PiS supporters and a small number of right wing media outlets are keen to remind the reader that PO was offered half of all government posts and that the whole thing collapsed over MSWiA (the ministry of internal affairs and administration) - something neither party would compromise on. They suspect that this was because PO wanted to keep the current special service elite in place.
Like I said, I'll let others do the editing. There is quite a lot of controversy regarding the elections in Poland, and I'd suggest the authors be as neutral as possible. I tried to represent more of PiS's take on things above, since I think that that POV is underrepresented. I hope that this'll be useful and will help y'all. Michael
Description of ideology in infobox is a joke, someone called the PiS a nationalist party, does not mean that it is. These are not serious sources in this matter.The basis is the party's program and political situation, and it is such that the only nationalist party in Poland (1% of support) is the enemy of the PiS and fights it. JackStrong12 ( talk) 14:16, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
It was a good idea to provide an international comparison for the party, but whoever keeps editing it back to say that the PiS is similar to the German CSU or the Austrian OVP should stop putting their subjective judgment into a neutral article. The PiS is certainly more to the left on economic issues than the German CSU and Austrian OVP, and certainly further to the right on cultural issues than both these parties. The European Parliament allows parties across Europe with similar political programs to group together, and so the most neutral thing to say is simply that the PiS is affiliated through the Union for a Europe of Nations (UEN) with parties such as Italy's Alleanza Nazionale.
This article does not appear to be written from a neutral point of view. Hence, I have added that template at the top. As background: This is a very mainstream political party which gathered about 27% of the votes in recent elections, and apparently has even higher support in opinion polls now.
However, in this article we find e.g.:
Don't get me wrong, here, I'm not a fan of PiS in any respect, and would never vote for them (don't you vote for them either! ;-)), but the bizzare impression I get from reading this article is that its a smear campaign against Poland rather than a factual article. Deuar 18:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
"On 10 April 2010, its former leader Lech Kaczyński was killed in the 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash." - This line suggests that Lech Kaczyński has been killed/murdered purposely, rather than the crash being an accident. Shouldn't it change to "On 10 April 2012, its former leader Lech Kaczyński died in the 2012 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash."? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.68.202 ( talk) 12:25, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
i have written the IRI reference as:
Deuar: i suggest you read the IRI's own claims for having largely organised the AWS: http://www.iri.org/countries.asp?id=8369274321 Have a look through their web site. It is not just some IRI, it is a USA federal budget funded institution involved in regime change around the world. Whether this method of regime change is good or bad is a POV. The fact that the IRI (and the Democrats' NDI) is involved in regime change, or from its point of view, promotion of democracy, i.e. funding center-right political parties, is an NPOV fact. Boud 00:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
When the militarily most powerful country on this planet sets up organisations to get involved in the national politics of other countries, i hardly think that is irrelevant to the political scene. It may not be widely known, but there is no evidence to suggest that it is exaggerated.
i'm putting the reference into the history section. It is not trivial when the militarily most powerful country on this planet sets up organisations to get involved in the national politics of other countries and then those organisations actually do get involved in those national politics. Boud 01:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Attitude to homosexuals' political and job rights and Government Representative for the Equal Status of Women and Men are not criticisms of PiS: they are a list of things that happened and/or were stated, which show parts of PiS' political program - whether or not they show PiS as good or bad is a PoV. The fact that they are actions by Kaczyński and by PiS are NPOV facts. Boud 01:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
With the aim of making this article less lopsided, i'm in the process of translating the information in the more extensive article from the Polish wikipedia. Also, I have moved the existing part on policies regarding gay and equal opportunity rights to its own section. The aim of that move is to achieve a general review of topics in the "political program" section (balanced with respect to completeness), without removing the coverage of the particular issues which have attracted so much attention in the english language article. Deuar 12:05, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
A ja bede muwił po wiejskiej odmianie polskiego: PiS najlepszoł partioł jest (na drugim miejscu som: LPR i Samoobrona)
Describing the PiS as "conservative" is simply misleading, as the party advocates very different policies from those of conservative parties of Europe, including aggressive nationalism, homophobia and anti-semitism - it clearly has close ties to the anti-semitic broadcaster Radio Maryja. I would compare the PiS to the NPD of Germany rather than the conservative CDU.
It is more appropriate to describe it as nationalist, and obviously anti-semitic connections should not be erased from the article. Skruee 15:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
it's national conservative
I have to agreed this is national conservative. And i disagree that conservatism equals homophobia and anti-semitism - it's totaly not true of course as far as we talk about Polish conservatism. Examle - Polish President (PiS related) in synagogue.
I think a political party is a "long lasting" phenomenon so adding a particular year category is somehow misleading. I guess you meant the creation of the party. Still, the qualification is doubious for me. I could elaborate on it. But let me simply suggest that maybe a "long lasting" category would suit better ("XXI century" or so)? Personally, I'd refrain from even giving this cat - as it is not clear now whether Law and Justice (or any other party) is relevant enough to this. Best, -- Beaumont (@) 12:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Could any one provide any academic references and soruces to the PiS characterization as far-left, before he or she reinserts this categorization. C mon 00:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
No, this isn´t any vandalism. It gives a clear definition of "anti-german" from german "Verfassungsschutz", which fulfil PiS. And the "Verfassungsschutz" tells, that "anti-german" is far-left. Deutscher Patriot 13:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
They are far-left when it comes to economic issues, far-right when it comes to religion or nationalism. - KiloByte ( talk) 22:38, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
This whole section and its subsections are getting out of date. They seem to have been written in the heat of the moment soon after PiS formed government about a year ago. Also, the Social issues subsection is pretty embarassing for a serious encyclopedia. It covers only a tiny fragment of relevant issues, and the choice of what topics were covered suffers from a painfully obvious political lean. Deuar 15:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Regarding recent edits of infobox as to whether the party should be considered conservatives or national conservatives. In the National conservative article:
Note the word "mainly" which was italicised here by me. PiS is not mainly concerned with these issues, although as we know they do form some significant part of their attitude, sure. The above definition is well applicable to the League of Polish Families, though.
Please do not suppose that you can get a balanced view of the internal politics of some country by reading a couple of random foreign media articles. They understandably concentrate only on those few things which will be unusual, shocking, or otherwise of interest to overseas people who mostly care nothing about local Polish issues. Normal everyday issues are alomst never covered in such articles, although they form the bulk of the politics of mainstream parties, among them the "Law and Justice" party. Deuar 14:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
AEN is a very loose group (launched by very moderate-conservative and economically liberal Fianna Fail, but, anyway, AN is trying to enter in the EPP. On the issues, AN supports strongly US, Israel and European integration, it is economically liberal (but less than Forza Italia, though) and its leader Fini is a supporter of stem cell research and civil unions. The party is anyway national-conservative because of its strong patriotism and its mixed record in the economy (sometimes liberal, sometimes statist). What is sure is that AN is more centrist compared with PiS. -- Checco 14:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
"Human Rights Watch, for instance, called a government proposal to ban discussions of homosexuality in school a threat to basic rights." That is correct, but you should remember that this article is about Law and Justice party, and that proposal came from deputy education minister Mirosław Orzechowski, whose party is League of Polish Families, so it is inappropriate to put this on account of PiS.
"Reporters Without Borders, in its annual report, noted the governing party's intolerance of criticism and the privilege it grants to Radio Maryja..." Where in this raport do you see any notion about giving them "privileges"? In case of "intolerance of criticism", it was one case when they reacted on offence from die Tageszeitung, so this sentence is gravely exaggerated.
"The press freedom organization became especially alarmed in the Summer of 2007, when revelations about alleged wiretapping of journalists by the special service began to surface". That's right - alleged... These accusations came from Janusz Kaczmarek, former communist party ( PZPR) member, trained as a political officer during communist rule in Poland, who was proven lying when testifying under oath, when he was accused of taking part in a leak about an anti-corruption operation against another former communist party member, Andrzej Lepper. He started to accuse government about these things just after when he was sacked from his post as interior minister under the charges of warning Lepper about the operation. He concealed informations about his communist past before prime minister and president, which were revealed only recently. Second person who was mentioned in the the reference when talking about alleged wiretaping was Sylwester Latkowski, journalist of post-communist weekly Polityka, in which few persons of editorial team were proven to be former agents of secret police during the time of PRL.
"The Helsinki Foundation for Human Rights is a frequent critic of the party's policies. It has challenged government's actions on numerous occasions, on issues ranging from freedom of assembly, reproductive rights, and the rights of the accused..." - in case of freedom of assembly, it was about cancelling few Gay Pride Parades due to security concerns (possible clashes with far-right organizations); reproductive rights - it is euphemism which means abortion, and it is a scandal that this organization is using a cover of fighting for Human Rigths in order to impose left-wing agenda to its member countries; rights of the accused - is suggests that situation in Poland is similar to that of Putin's Russia - trials with no right to defence, imprisonment of political oponents etc. but the truth is that this accusations of breaking "rights of the accused" was in the case of doctor who was accused of fifty criminal offences and killing his patient, for which he was arrested.
"According to Reporters Without Borders, in 2006 Poland was ranked lowest of the then 25 EU members in their worldwide press freedom ranking, due to the perceived considerable institutional pressure exerted by those in power on the news media" - well i would say that situation is rather opposite, as before 2005 there was a considerable institutional pressure on centre-right and right-wing newspapers, and very few journalist of right-wing views were invited to the public television. Now situation is more balanced; of course, sometimes there are sharp verbal skirmishes between government figures and some journalist (mostly left-wing), but this is only rhetorics.
"In an editorial written following the arrest of an opposition figure, Adam Michnik, the editor-in-chief and dissident during communist times, said that he no long feel safe in Poland. "The Rubicon has been crossed; the Rubicon separating a law-governed democracy from the country of a creeping coup d'etat," he wrote." That "opposition figure" was Janusz Kaczmarek, who was accused of (and proven) of hindering of corruption trial. Adam Michnik is misusing his position of former dissident to attack his political opponents in foreign press. A former trotskyist, as an editor-in-chief he often used his Gazeta Wyborcza (until recently) dominant position on newspaper market to destroy many right-wing politicians with very unfavourable articles, and giving them no right to reply on Wyborcza's pages. If we would seek a person in polish political life who is showing signs of "intolerance of criticism", that person would be Adam Michnik, who files a lawsuits against almost everyone who dares to criticize him in public. His words about "creeping coup d'etat" were simply a lie, but the problem is that his statements in foreign media are rarely balanced by journalists and politicians of opposite political views.
"Former president Lech Wałęsa has called for the arrest of the Kaczyński brothers. "They have broken so many laws, they deserve to go to jail." Commenting on the increasing authoritarian methods the PiS government, the former leader of the Solidarity Movement said that "they are ready to impose martial martial law" to order to hold onto power." Former president Wałęsa is known of making numerous gaffes in his comments, and there are not many people in Poland who are taking them serious. He is not anyone significant in contemporary polish politics, and while he may have played a significant role in defeating communism in Poland, it turned out after '89 that he was a politician who was (and unfortunately still is) often driven by personal animosities in his judgments, and case of Kaczyński government isn't an exception.
This whole section is very biased and defamatory, and it's intention was to describe PiS as very authoritarian and undemocratic party... It is something normal to criticize politicians, but in Wikipedia we should write only about criticism which can be taken serious, and we should write about it in such a way to avoid any bias, no matter left- or right-wing. Ammon86 17:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
As PiS is ceasing to be the governing party in Poland, a lot of stuff in the article is no longer pertinent. The party's attitude towards homosexuals mattered greatly when it could force through laws unfavorable towards them. Now that it's removed, I see little reason to detail every occasion where Kaczynski &co displayed their homofobia. Chernyshevsky 23:50, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I believe it is wrong that PiS is compared to British National Party as it is NOT against immigration and does not have any such views, no citation also exists —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tadeusz007 ( talk • contribs) 01:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was
Law and Justice → Law and Justice Party (Poland) —
There are many "Law and Justice" parties in the world, and the term "Law and Justice" is used for many things. Further, the abbreviation "PiS" is also used in English for this party. This is definitely not the primary usage of the term "law and justice" in English, and the party should be moved, and replaced with a dab page.
70.29.208.247 ( talk) 11:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Christian Democratic parties in the European Union are usually members of the European People’s Party in the EU Parliament, e.g. the German CDU, French Union for a Popular Movement, Italian The People of Freedom and the Polish Civic Platform. The PiS is not a member of the EPP nor is the PiS associated to any of the resp. national parties. The PiS is instead a co-founder of the right wing, euro-sceptic Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists in the European Parliament. Probably “Christian Democratic” was supposed to describe the importance of the Catholic faith and Catholic positions for the PiS, this doesn’t make her positions “Christian Democratic” per common definition. However, a reliable source should be used to support the current claim, otherwise it should be removed HerkusMonte ( talk) 09:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
The article wrongly claims that PiS is a conservative/national conservative/christian democratic party. In fact, it has nothing to do with neither conservatism nor democracy. It is best described as fascist (economic socialism plus supremacy of the state over individual) or national socialist 85.89.170.22 ( talk) 02:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
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Ziobro's supporters, most of whom on the right-wing of the party
Ziobro supporters were the most left-wing members of Law and Justice. Jacek Kurski openely claimed to be social democrat, and Tadeusz Cymański also said that "it is not to be ashamed to be socialist".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrafQpcZkUw
http://www.konserwatyzm.pl/artykul/4572/kolor-czerwony-wcale-nie-jest-brzydki-rozmowa-z-europoslem-t
Even if their views on homosexuals or abortion are more conservative it's rather exaggerated to say that they are "from the right-wing of the party".
W.J.M. ( talk) 16:06, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
...and what it would like to be seen as.
Going by these discussions, PiS is chiefly about gayism and homophobia. I wish you guys said something more about PiS's line on more --- excuse me --- serious issues, such as health care (you say it is in favour of a state-run system, but that is hardly specific for PiS), education, old age pensions and this kind of stuff. PiS often portrays itself as the Party of the 'losers', the disenfranchised, the not-so-glamorous, the elderly and such.... Is that just an alibi or a masquerade? I understand that you are mostly rich uncommitted youngsters (or ones who have stayed youngsters) but to us old and useless PiS is, perhaps wrongly, interesting for reasons not connected with gayism and abortion. 78.49.202.26 ( talk) 19:27, 31 May 2013 (UTC) wimp
Quite a bit has changed for PiS recently. They revealed a new platform which has considerably more socialist policies than earlier (more redistribution of wealth, state-run factories, National Employment Program, etc.) - generally a huge expansion of government. Their free-market wing has pretty much dissipated too, especially with the key pro-capitalist MP Przemysław Wipler leaving the party and announcing that he's going to work with Poland Together and the Congress of the New Right. I think this really shifts them to the left, and if one really wants to argue that they're still right-wing due to their social conservatism, then these events at least deserve a mention. Thoughts? Photon man62 ( talk) 19:01, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
What is the Law and Justice platform's position on homosexuality? Though there is a section in the page for this topic, it does not actually discuss the platform and only includes incendiary comments made by representatives. Additionally, the PiS positions on health care needs to be expanded beyond 6 words. Finally, the entire sections needs some cite able material. I would add material myself; however, I neither speak nor read Polish so any material I collect would be secondary to tertiary at best. Assuming the party has an official platform, would anyone be willing to look at it and then include primary citations? CopperPhoenix ( talk) 14:19, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
In Polish it is: Prawo i Sprawiedliwość (PiS). In English probably it shoud be:
Justice and Righteousness as in Bible(?). For example Jr 33:15. C12 ( talk) 20:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Ever since PiS won the 2015 Polish parliamentary election and formed the current government, it has made a lot of changes and I have heard in the news about some of the controversies. Why doesn't this article cover PiS's activities as the ruling party since the election? -- 1990'sguy ( talk) 15:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi everybody! The Law and Justice's ideology is the Statism, Anti-communism, Euroscepticism and Anti-abortion. The Statism is the biggest ideology in the United Russia's ideology and the Law and Justice's ideology's. The party hates the liberal conservative and the islamist ideology. The party's ideology is the Statism, like the United Russia's ideology. -- ViceCity343 ( talk) 16:53, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
How are they center-right, regardless of sources their hard right at a minimum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.81.47.10 ( talk) 22:07, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
who wrote this section? it's prejudiced and tendentious. Part "Hate crimes such as arson and physical violence have occurred in Poland" is a complete nonsense. its far from a neutral point of the view!
I took a long break from monitoring this page, and it seems like the ideology section doubled in size - with a lot of overlap between labels (ex. State Interventionism and Economic Nationalism). I believe it best to reduce the number of tags; however, I'd prefer to not act unilaterally. Can we as editors to come to an agreement on cutting the section down to, say, five labels with clear pertinence to PiS? CopperPhoenix ( talk) 18:35, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Ok, you wanted to talk. What do you suggest as a compromise? I have no objection to the sources, just the outsized number of ideolgies. CopperPhoenix ( talk) 03:29, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Here are some sources for the selected ideologies:
For more sources see also these wiki articles:
-- 84.226.141.191 ( talk) 12:24, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
@ CopperPhoenix and Jay942942: Sorry to dismantle your consensus, but the references for Christian democracy are not sufficient. The German-language book by Hierlemann (2005) does not characterise PiS as a Christian-democratic party. It merely states that some PiS lawmakers view themselves as Christian democrats, but the author does not affirm this claim. The other is a (probably cherry-picked) news article by Austrian public broadcasting. PiS is a well-researched subject among political scientists, there are lots of expert books and journal articles, so why should we base the ideologic classification of this party on a random news article? Political scientists Christian Bale and Aleks Szczerbiak have published a study titled "Why is there no Christian Democracy in Poland (and why does this matter)?", where they demonstrate that PiS is not a genuinely Christian-democratic party. So, this is at least disputed and should not be affirmatively stated in the infobox and introductory sentence of the article. -- RJFF ( talk) 15:05, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Over the next few months, I plan on overhauling the PiS article to make it more readable and it's format in line with similar pages. I plan on borrowing much of the content and citations from the polish wiki. Just a head's up. Don't be startled by any massive deletions or additions in the near future. CopperPhoenix ( talk) 04:08, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
It appears that this article is heavily influenced by foreign hijackers with some apparent unhealthy interests in Polish democracy, with an aching for comparisons with other parties across Europe as if this was some kind of competition. Poles know that domestically PiS is described as centre-right and PO is described as centre-left, or more often PO as liberal and PiS as conservative, even though on some apparently necessary comparisons to Europe, both are conservative. What Western European media think is simply irrelevant, in my opinion.
No Polish media, regardless of their political alignment, would call PiS right-wing. So why is that (or even some designations as "far right") taken seriously? Indeed, the Polish article for this party does not even state "right-wing" once.
I propose we change the article to "centre-right" as outlined across Polish media and fully disregard any links from Western media. https://wypracowania24.pl/wos/3453/partie-chadeckie-definicja-charakterystyka http://naszemiasto.pl/artykul/czy-pis-jest-partia-prawicowa,4509190,art,t,id,tm.html http://wyborcza.pl/7,75398,23895905,prof-antoni-dudek-platforma-przegrywa-z-pis-walke-o-centroprawice.html?disableRedirects=true https://dorzeczy.pl/kraj/59579/PiS-daleko-od-prawicy.html http://www.newsweek.pl/polska/wyniki-sondazy-wyborczych-kto-jet-w-polsce-prawica-i-lewica,artykuly,365729,1.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by RevolutionizeSeven ( talk • contribs) 16:30, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Regional assemblies 2018 News: TVP: PiS triumphs in Polish local elections 21.10.2018
I would like to add this to the section Regional assemblies 2018 - ok? -- 0e7s ( talk) 19:42, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Here are some recent news:
-- 84.226.141.191 ( talk) 12:11, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Political position per disc and consensus is "Centre-right". See discs sections above and Political spectrum. -- 84.226.141.191 ( talk) 09:46, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
PiS political position is described across all major sources by the overwhelming majority as "Conservative" = centre-rigth vs. right-wing It includes Media of all types: public/private & conservative/left-wing/far-left & small/big & national/international
Please see below an excerpt of available sources for "conservative PiS". I will change it in the article accordingly. -- ObserverEU ( talk) 22:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
-- ObserverEU ( talk) 06:47, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
-- ObserverEU ( talk) 23:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Reuters, AP, AFP: more than 4 thousand news for „conservative PiS“ here an excerpt:
-- ObserverEU ( talk) 22:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
-- Jay942942 ( talk) 15:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Thnx for these additional news as sources. I will review them. It seems to me normal that on a political party there will be a wide diversity of opinions/news. There are more than 4.000 news from the 3 major press agancies only stating "conservative PiS". My understanding is that we strive for neutral point of view and be balanced based on verfified sources. Please review the talk page and especially the provided evidence summarized here PiS#Centre-right. -- ObserverEU ( talk) 16:50, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
The entire, long standing section, on Homophobia has been removed with a false edit summary that I added it (I did expand). We do not closet LGBT issues into an "LGBT rights" article - but rather cover where relevant. Homophobia has been a major party plank since inception, and in the 2019 elections it is the party's main platform issue, A vast number of RSes, international coverage, have been covering the homophibic incitement in the past few months. We follow sources and this is clearly DUE, and probably should be in the lead as well. Icewhiz ( talk) 05:50, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
References
PiS is not a Far-right party. There is no evidence of the government pushing through any sort of systemic crackdown on minorities or planning to leave the European Union. Konfederacja is a Polish party that is undisputably far right. Poland is a member of the European Union, and market rules must be followed. Communism is illegal here in Poland. PiS is not a "nationalist" or Anti-EU party either. Poland does not seek to destroy the union, they just have deep divisions with EU elites on courts, climate, and forced migration. None of this is outside of any sort of democratic parameters. accept the rules of the single market and do not oppose free trade agreements, so you can throw out the "economic nationalist" part. I don't agree with Poland's ruling party on many things, but this is taking it to extremes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.11.32.101 ( talk) 20:29, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
@
78.11.32.101:
I suggest you to read
WP:POINT. After reading it I wish you could know why your edit is reverting. Jeff6045
22:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Need to be extremely cautious to avoid WP:CHERRY, especially from the 2015-2016 election period. Later reporting seems to consistently avoid the "far right" label, so readily used in 2016, instead stressing PiS's "left-inspired" economic policies [7] [8] [9] [10]. All in all, newer sources indicated that slapping a "far right" label to PiS would be factually incorrect. — kashmīrī TALK 10:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
References
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There are sources describing this party as "centre-right", "right-wing" and "far-right". Currently, the infobox political position says "right-wing to far-right". I would like to gauge support for a change in the position to either "Centre-right to right-wing with far-right factions", as was done on the Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) page when a similar dilemma arose, or simply "Right-wing" as the middle ground between "centre-right and "far right", as was done on the Bharatiya Janata Party page. Both of these changes have been previously suggested on this talk page as potential new consensus positions.
Which of the following three political positions is best suited for this article's infobox?
I think "Right-wing" is best, since it is cleaner than the second option. However, unlike the status quo, it allows readers to more easily make a distinction with Confederation Liberty and Independence, United Poland and other significant movements in the country that are further to the right of PiS without being purely "far-right". -- Jay942942 ( talk) 15:06, 15 April 2020 (UTC)