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or the caribbean? Canada is LATIN america too they have some of the frenchies!!! that leaves the united states alone? with certain islands of the caribbean and the falkan islands? not even if we count the southern states of the United States that include hispanics and french heritage; california, texas, arizona, florida, louisiana, etc The solution here is to first of all rename latin america, is too wide to be even considered and may be equal as criollo land, creole land not adequate because if you check canada and the united states they are also a mixture of european countries as well. We need a more wise subdivision. Hispanamerica and Portugalamerica. It might sound funny but it is less funny than latin america.
note: canada is NOT considered part of Latin America. just a little fyi. and "frenchies" are not considered part of latin america either. dont use racial slurs - Bagel7
Hi Mr. (fyu) For Your Understanding, I was being sarcastic and frenchies before some US/americans turned into a depictive adjective it was a friendly one. and fyi I'm in part french and don't have you ideas of racism!
Don Quijote's Sancho
06:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
It's simple, in the United States they are all "Latin America". Everywhere else in the world then Belize and Jamaica are not. Those countries themselves do not even consider themselves Latin American. CaribDigita 17:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
P.S. The term "Latin America" didn't exist in Pre-columbian times. It only came about since Napoleon the III CaribDigita 22:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
The fact of the matter is "Latin America" is about cultural identity. Just as "Anglo-America" or "British Commonwealth" are about cultural identity... If people want to know exactly what in the Americas are in-- Latin American all one has to do is look at who has joined the Latin Union. Countries which don't feel they have a foundation in Latin America haven't joined. Just pickout the countries in the Americas. My example, as I've brought up before was the period after independence for the majority of the British territories in the Caribbean. After joininh the United Nations bodes they lobbied for the name of the United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America (as one example) to be renamed as the United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean. Additionally the areas south of the United States at the U.N. are now designated as "GRULAC" The Group of Latin American and the Caribbean (GRULAC). Not "GRULA" You can put Barbados et. al. but just understand people in Barbados, Jamaica, or other parts of the English Speaking Americas etc. do not regard themselves as a part of Latin America.
Some quick examples:
-- Note 10th paragraph "one of the highest in the Caribbean and Latin America"
P.s. this is also being debated on Yahoo Answers. [1] CaribDigita 22:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
PS: Cuba is not part of the Organization of the American States. Does it mean it is not in part of the Americas?? :) -- Ninarosa 02:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
The truth of the matter seems to be that Latin America is the poor countries in the New World. Full stop. By the way, it sounds rather offensive to open-minded people who live in these countries. Maybe this article should only mention the real physical and cultural regions: Caribeean, Central America, the Andesian Countries, with the large countries by themselves, as they are all very different one from the other.
This is the crux of this lengthy discussion. The term "Latin America" lends itself very well to the notion that "Latin America" ought to mean the countries or regions in the Americas where the primar language is a romance language (a descendant language of Latin). This notion is simple, yet highly deceptive. Setting regional orthographers aside, when the general population refer to "Latin America" they mean something entirely different. It is often used to describe a certain state in economic progress, or a common colonial heritage. Many people employ it to mean those countries where either Spanish or Portuguese are the primary languages. The term has always been somewhat of an ambiguous one, and has always had its problems, ever sicne its inception. It has since taken on many meanings none of which are close to its original intent, and its original intent has nothing to do with "Latin America" means today.
The term is used more often in the United States than it is in all the collective countries it purpotedly includes.
The fact of the matter is that when the average person from the United States refers to Latin America, he or she means Mexico and everything south of that in this hemisphere. (If they think about it, which they usually won't, they will probably exclude English and Dutch speaking places.) It's not intended to be racist, that's just the way it is, however the term may have come to be used originally. Latino is generally used to mean people from that area, with the probable exception of the English and Dutch speaking people. Hispanic generally refers to people from Spanish speaking countries.
I often wish there were a standard English term for United States citizens... I'm visiting Honduras now, and thankfully they just know, I don't have to worry about making the mistake of saying I'm from America.
-brbigam
actually north south and central were one continent, and still are though many pl said that was changed by americans in panama... tough is still one continent a lot of people ae ignorant to that
Nice try. No doubt there are other competing designations. By the way, can you disambiguate "North America" from norteamericano? My atlas says Mexico and Central America are both in North America (since the only other nearby continent is South America). Ed Poor
Actually, most references I have seen (World Book, Britannica) include Haiti as part of "Latin America".
TO EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO DISCUSS THE ORGINS OR CORRECTNESS OF THE TERM "LATIN AMERICA", PLEASE CONFINE THIS DEBATE TO THE "ETYMOLOGY" SECTION OF THE ARTICLE. YOUR OBSESSIONS WITH THIS DETAIL IS RUINING THE REST OF THE SECTIONS.
It is not appropriate to turn this article into a debate on the term "Latin America". The fact is that the term "Latin America" is widely accepted and used in the English language, and therefore the article should use that term. If "Latin America" ever becomes politically incorrect in English, then and only then will Wilipedia not use it. As a reference to Wikipedia serves a descrptive, not perscritive role. We should explain the world to our readers, not shove our view of it down their throats. This article is the worst of the Region articles because its development has been held up by this pointless debate. Follow standard English Language practice, use the term Latin America. Save the debate for the "eytmology" section. I'm out. Grow up.
It is not question not using the term "latin-America", but using it correctly, knowing to what it refers. what defines latin-America is not being situated south of USA but being speaking latin languages, that's the way it is. If you want to include english or Dutch speaking countries like Jamiaca, Belize, Guyana or Surinam in it, it just means that you don't understand the meaning of the term "latin". It would be as incorrect than if I define "Anglo America" to be every country situated north of Mexico, so to include French-speaking Quebecers in that concept that canno't reffer to them.
The whole problem of this discussion come from the fact that wikipedia defines latin America as a geographical concept while it is a cultural one. " Latin America is a geographical region consisting of countries in the Western Hemisphere south of the United States. " How this first definition could be correct !? First of all it is a very American-centred point of view, the rest of the planet don't define latin-America with being situated south of the USA but with being the countries of America where latin languages are spoken. Secondly, why just being situated south of USA would make a country part of a specific geographical region ? Are "Tierra del fuego" and "Tijuana" really part of the same geographical region ??! They are not even in the same mass continent, have completly different climates and are separated by thousands of miles (or kilometers)... "latin-America" canno't be anything else than a cultural concept (especially a linguistic one).
Quebec is not inclued in "latin america" for the simple reason that Quebec is not a country but a provinced part of a majoritary english-speaking country. When the term "latin-america" was introduced Canada had already falled under english rule, and the french-speaking population was decreasing rapidly. So, at this time one one thought that a part of it would still being of latin culture. The quebecers were obliged to use english at work, school, etc. So the expression were not"latin-america was only applied to the countries were the official language and the majoritary culture was of latin origin. The things have changed in Quebec in the20th century when the catholic church tried to unify the french-speaking people and increasing their population (incitaing them to make a lot of children). In a few decades the number of french canadians become much bigger and this people obtained much reconnaissance of their identity in the seventies in the proveince of Quebec were they are a majority. French become the official language in this province (at work, school, etc.) The fact of having being ruled long time by anglo-saxons (english candian culture) has made that Quebecers ahave lost a big part of their latin identity outside of the language much of their way of life, food, music, mentality is quite similar to the anglo-american one.
Taking the inverse of the Quebec argument, what would areas of the United States which are majority Spanish-speaking, or very heavily-"Latin American" influenced, be considered? What is a native Miamian of non-Hispanic descent (meaning my parents do not speak Spanish as their native language), but who speaks Spanish and is familiar with many Latin American cultures, considered? Where do they fit in? Where does Miami, the so-called "Capital of Latin America" fit in? Realize there is an anomalous non-Hispanic-descended "Anglo" population of the United States that could very well get away with being called "Hispanic," the same as if they had emigrated to Buenos Aires and grown up there. Are they Latin Americans? I'd say at least as much as i.e., Jennifer Lopez is. :P
"What is a native Miamian of non-Hispanic descent (meaning my parents do not speak Spanish as their native language), but who speaks Spanish and is familiar with many Latin American cultures, considered? Where do they fit in?" They fit in North Americans. Just because you know a language and are familiar with that culture, doesn´t mean that you are latin. I´m Portuguese. I know English, I´m familiar with their culture, I´m living in england and that doesn´t make me English or Anglo (I hope!)I think that´s a stupid question. If their mother tongue isn´t Spanish, Portuguese, etc., they aren´t Latinos.
"IberoAmerica offently includes Spain and Portugal." -- Can't figure out what writer was trying to say. Removing "offently". ("Often"? I don't think it would be quite right to write ""IberoAmerica often includes Spain and Portugal.")
I thin someone should remove "offtenly" because... I was gonna say that there are only Portugal and Spain there, but now I saw the word America. What the hell is IbeeroAmerica? I only know the Península Ibérica.
"Most usually it only refers to the nations" I find that awkward to read. What about "Usually it refers specifically to the nations"... ? -- ll
Also, what about mentioning Hispanoamericana, or should that occur only in the Spanish version ? -- ll
it would be a good idea to exclude the non-latin countries of the list...
A mention or a link to "latin Europe" page would be necessary.
" There are, however, many people in Latin America who do not speak Latin-derived languages, either speaking languages indigenous to the region, or other European languages such as English or Dutch. "
No this is false! The countries of English or Dutch language Canno't part of LATIN-America !!! but of Germanic-America or Anglo-America in the case of english-Speaking countries.
Anglo-america : - USA - Canada (mainly) - Jamaica - Belize - Guyana - Bahamas - Virgin islands - other english-speaking west indies
Germanic-America : - anglo-america + - Dutch America (Surinam + dutch west indies)
Why retaining "Latino" is an irony? Somebody care to explain?
if the canadians start saying they are latin americans they will join the "family". I'm Mexican and personally I don't have anything against frenchs neither against "americans".
No I think that Canada is just not counted in "latin america" for the simple reason that Canada is not a latin country but a country with a majoritary anglo-saxon (english-derived) culture. Only the Province of Québec has a majoritary latin culture in Canada. But since Québec is not an independant state it cannot be counted appart than the rest of Canada.
Eh, actually, there are millions of French-descended Mexicans epicentered around Jalisco. Um, Sabine Moussier, anyone? Famous telenovela star?
I think the irony is the fact that 'latin america' has as much as a potato has to do with rocket science as they do to the word 'latin'. Latin is Italian in origin. Spanish is more arabic / basque influenced than Italian. The only influence of the Latin language on Spanish was vulgar latin anyhow, so the entire concept of 'latin america' is utterly moot and illustrative of a hideous detachment of reality and a failure of cognitive understanding of history. 202.173.202.189 13:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm from a latin european country,
It is sad to see how so much american people make wrong use of words...
"latin" is a cultural reference to language and culture coming from a latin-language speaking country... that is to say from spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian and French. French is as much a latin language as spanish !
So "latin america" means countries where official language and culture is coming from spanish, portuguese or french. Excluying french speaking countries of america is a non-sence. If Quebec would be a independent country it should be considered as much as a latin american country than argentina, and even maybe more than mexico, guatemala or peru, whose countries are almost as much native indian than latin...
In the same time I saw so much of US websites considering Jamaica, Belize, Guyana or Surinam as "latin" !!!... Those countries are ENGLISH and DUTCH speaking !! In this cas why not include USA in latin america !!!!!! (I'm kidding!)
I'm sometimes asking myself if some american people know the signification of the words they use !!
Can any american people can explain to me why they don't consider french speaking countries of america as "latin" ?
In europe it is something that we have difficulties to understand...
Is it because in north america the anglosaxon people gave a negative meaning to the word "latin". Especially about poverty and underdevelopment ?
In this cas if in ten or twenty years, if some latin american countries become as developped as north american countries, will they be not considered as "latin" anymore ?...
Is it the reason why Quebecers are not considered as latin americans...Quebec is a developped and rich latin country and is in america, so why not is not considered latin-american by the people in USA ??!
Because it is a Canadian province belonging to the commonwealth country of Canada. Canada has two major languages, French and English. Since it is mostly English speaking it cannot be considered a latin country. Unless you want to call Quebec a latin province. I live in Canada and when I hear someone say latin America I think South America immediately. I do not think of Haiti or any other French speaking nation, however. Perhaps thats due to ignorance. I associated latin with Spanish and Portugese speaking all my life.
=> Strangely enough: 1) There are French, English and Dutch speaking countries/regions in South America 2) Portuguese descendants in South American don't consider themselves any more "Latin" than French and Italian descendants in North America. So what is the difference? I would say it is lack of imformation on South America.
M.S.
....In Response...
I will be your American explaining to you why anyone, not just us, does not all the countries of Central and South America, 'Latin America.'
You say how sad it is to see how American's make wrong use of words, well I find it sad that you would go ahead and criticize American's when you yourself do not know the origination for the term 'Latin America'. Yes it is true that French is derived from the Latin language, but it is also the French that deemed the Central and Southern American Countries as 'Latin America'. So it was not the Americans who coined this term, it was the French themselves. I therefore do not believe that they were as upset about the term as you seem to be. It will always be Latin America, not just when they are no longer in a state of poverty, but because the French were so influential in the 1850s.
Clearly Americans are not using this term of 'Latin America' incorrectly and neither is anyone else for that matter. I found it most interesting how quick you were to assume that the Americans of the United States were the ones who classified Central and South America as Latin America when it was your own ancestors in the 19th century. So before you start pointing fingers at other countries for their ignorance, perhaps you should check on your own. So all in the while of trying to make a fool of The United States, you have only embarrassed yourselves. And by the way, Americans is a term that is used to categorize everyone in North and South Americas. You can find more about this in John Charles Chasteen in his book 'Born in Blood and Fire' a Concise History of Latin America on page 156.
reply to above:
I´ll be your american (not as united statesian) telling you to read the text above again. You only go on and on about how the french created the expression. Who created it isn't important, what matters here is that it's being used incorrectly.
You then states that no one is using the term incorrectly but fails to explain why.
The term "latin america" is being used incorrectly, read all texts on this talk to find out why.
The article says that Latin Americ acovers South America, but the latter counts three more island states. Please clarify. Mikkalai 17:06, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I know the origin of the expression "latin america", I know that it was created during Napoleon III at the time of the intervention in Mexico, with the purpose of including in a same concept the former colonies of Spain, Portugal and France : It was a political strategy. But at this time, the origin of this concept the french speaking countries of america were included in it...
I never said that the people of USA invented the word "latin america" !!! I agree with that fact to include portuguese and spanish speaking countries of america under the label "latin-america", but I'm just asking why nowadays In the mind of the people of USA the francophones americans are excluded of this concept... I still don't have my answer...
Ps: I know that "american" means all the people who live in america (north and south), but your country is the only country without name... in spanish we can say "estadounidenses", in french you can say "états-uniens"... I'm not sure to be understood I say "united-statians"... even in this case it is not a precise name because there is also "the united states of mexico" (the true name of mexico)
"This mixture of cultures and keeping of certain traditions and doing away with others has made Latin America the unique, yet very influenced culture that it has today. Culture mixes are not only about the languages and religions, but also about the dance and music of Latin America as well. A Latino is a person of Latin American heritage, or from a Latin American culture."
I'm a Brazilian and a South American. Although one has to admit that Latin American countries share some traits, the idea of a Latin American culture seems a gross simplification, drenched in stereotypes and misconceptions about the region. This idea can be dangerous in the sense that it might foster discrimination and downplay ethnic issues in Latin America.
Here are my thoughts on the subject:
ON LATINO, HISPANIC AND BRAZIL
According to American laws and most Brazilians? self-perception people who come from the Portuguese former colonies are neither "latino" or "hispanic". Although they might be consider themselves as "Latin" if they are talking solely about the place they come from.
This is because Brazil ? as well as many South American countries ? has been a main immigration area just like the US. Brazil has German, Angolan, Arab, Jewish and Japanese descendants - to quote a few. These people don?t identify with the term ?latino? as it is used in the US. They do identify as a single nation (Brazil) but not as a single ethnic/cultural group. The idea that a relatively more intense miscegenation has given South America, and particularly Brazil, a homogenous and easily identifiable ethnic/cultural background has been contested by many authors. Miscigenation has varied greatly according to area and ethnic group, and they rarely resulted in a common ethnic/cultural background, since we are talking about many immigration waves, coming from every corner of the world over the centuries.
To quote Alan P Marcus: ?The Portuguese language spoken in Brazil, Brazilian ethnicity, and Brazilian culture are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" (These three words are defined as synonyms by the US census). The Jeitinho Brasileiro ("The Brazilian way"), the Jogo Bonito ("The Beautiful Game", a Brazilian reference to Brazilian-style soccer) and Samba (Unique Brazilian Samba music), are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino". In addition, the Brazilian raison d'être is devoid of any relationship within the "Hispanic-Latino" paradigms.
In a sense, "Hispanic" and "Latino" have inaccurately "racialized" all Latin Americans, and have thus "latinamericanized" all of Latin America monolithically and homogenously.
The implication is that there is an illusory "Hispanic" or "Latino" "race" or that there is a single imaginary country where "Hispanics" and "Latinos" come from, and of course, neither is true. ?
THE DISCOURSE OF HOMOGENOUS CULTURAL BACKGROUND AS A FORM OF ETHNIC EXCLUSION IN BRAZIL
The idea of an homogenous ethnic/cultural Latin background has been used to deny ethnic struggles in South America and allianate ethnic minorities from power (particularly African and Native descendants). Gilberto Freire's idea of "Racial Democracy" in Brazil, which overstresses white/native/African miscigenation, has been extremely criticised for its conservative and anti-democratic content. It downplays the fact that white European descendants still rule the country and have far more access to schools, jobs and wealth.
BRAZILIANS IN THE US
The terms ?latino? and ?latin? are not interchangeable. Latin refers to French, Portuguese, Spanish, Romanian and Italian speakers . ?Latino?, as used by the US law, is an inaccurate, simplistic and stereotypical term to describe the diverse emigrants from Spanish America. Sometimes these terms are also wrongly applied to Brazilian emigrants by the American media.
When Brazilians refer to themselves as South Americans or Latin Americans, they don?t mean to describe their ethnic or cultural background, since there are Italian Brazilians, Angolan Brazilians, German Brazilians, Japanese Brazilians, Portuguese Brazilians, Spanish Brazilians and so on. Ethnic and cultural background will vary according to each individual. When Brazilians refer to themselves as South or Latin Americans they mean only the place they come from.
However, in the US, the terms Latin American and South American seem to have acquired a cultural/ethnic meaning, which most Brazilians find very disturbing, since that represents a denial of their specific cultural backgrounds and the identities they learned to have as point of reference.
To call Brazilians ?Latinos? is very comparable to state that every American -Anglo saxon American, African American, Asian American, etc - is an ?Asian?. It downplays social and ethnic struggles over the centuries of colonization and make ethnic "minorities" such as African and Native descendants invisible and powerless.
"latino" is a word that only reffers to the cultures with the native indian origins !!!!
Only the people with native indian origins can be said "latino". That the reason why argentinians are not latins. Us, the people of Guatemala we are the true latinos (like Peruvians, Bolivians, Ecutorians, Mexicans...) because we have a few european blood. I think we should exclude definitivly the people of argentina, Brazil or uruguay from the term "latin-america" because thay have nothing in common with our indian(latino) culture. We should stop to speak spanish and stop being catholics because it is a european language and a european religion, AND NOT LATINO ONES !! But I think we should include in "latin-america" all the native indian reservations of USA and Canada were are living our latin brothers !
I don't know why some Europeans that are not latinos at all want to be condidered as native indians like we are !!! Please leave that label for the true latinos... The fact that people of spain and portugal colonized our latin countries doesn't make latinos of themselves !! Those countries colonized some countries of Africa but nobody say that Spain and Portugal are African... They stole our gold, but they won't stole our name !!! -- 172.210.87.127
ur a little bit stupid ain't u? latino is derived from latium a region in italy, from where the romans came from, and in that region they speak latin. when the roman empire spread across europe the influentiate the language spoken there that's why portuguese castillan, catalan, galician, french, romanian and italian are the latin(pure ones, specially italians) european countries. when spain and portugal colonised america they influentiate, and mixed (in some cases others not, and in different scales, for instance argentina and uruguay have the majority of the population white(arg-95% uruguay-85%) with the natives. and these new societies have a lot of latin or iberian influence speaking spanish or portuguese so they are latin americans, and if ur saying that 2 be latinos u must stop speaking spanish or being catholic, u'll not be a latino u would be aztec or mayan or so on, because the true latins r europeans.
and i can't underdtand how the americans( ppl from united states, america is a continent, not a country) don't consider ( in some cases) portuguese and spaniards white saying they r hispanic. well, i thought hispanic was created to separate the ppl with mixed blood(amerindian and spaniard) from white. the ppl from us is more mixed than me for sure, cause they have a lot of indian and black mixing(not all of course but more than potuguese with moors or blacks for sure). when i'm in german or sweden, they won't say that i'm non-white or that i'm hispanic, they'll say im white(i'm portuguese) because ~i have a light skin but my eyes and hair is dark, so the usa ppl is really stupid and instead of trying to unite pll they kept ppl apart by dividing ppl by race.
besides, aren't there fully indigenous Argentines...and Guatemalans of European descent?
Why isn't the contents list at the top of the page, instead of in the middle. This is driving me crazy. I would fix it my self if i knew how. February 2005
Wow, this is the most asinine claim I have ever seen. Yeah, you should definitely stop using your LATIN LANGUAGE, you Latino, you. What a retard.
Veo que muchos de ustedes son de habla hispana, la persona que dice de los Guatemaltecos déjame decirte que ignorante que eres. Yo siendo sur americano (hijo de italianos) me siento muy ofendido de cómo se utiliza La palabra o el término latino en los estados unidos de norte América Que país es denominado latino no me interesa pero si se porque. Otra cosa que me ofende mucho es cuando los cubanos, puerto riqueños La gente de Miami y otros países de centro América y el caribe se denominan latinos siendo negros O indígenas, por que me ofende, primero ofenden a los latinos y segundo Deniegan su propia raza o descendencia. Si hablar español escuchar salsa y comer frijoles les hace sentir que son latinos Sigan creyendo eso. Pero ser latino es mucho más que eso. Si tengo que decir quien es mas latino que quien o que país es mas latino. Diría sur América y norte América usa. Por que, Sur América y u.s.a tienen la mayoría mas grande de latinos europeos A pesar de que latino América fue colonizada por hispanos (españoles) Otra cosa que me cae muy mal es cuando me llaman hispano, porque hablo español no soy hispano / soy ítaloamericano o ítalo argentino. Los estados unidos de América están muy acostumbrados en poner sobrenombres y alimentar la ignorancia de los que nacen en este país u.s.a Esto es un tema muy largo pero solo entramos en este tema cuando entramos a los estados unidos de América.
As a Guatemalan of pure European descent, I found the first entry ignorant and offensive. Latinos are any one who comes from a latino American country whether Mexico, Guatemala or even Argentina. Ladinos are the the latinos with indigenous and spanish blood. And also, dragging the name of Guatemala through the dirt like you did is idiotic and very unpatriotic. There are Guatemalans WHO ARE WHITE for example, in Chimaltenango, where the majority of citizen are blond hair and green eyed.
We are just as latino as you are but possibly not "Ladino" as you most likely are. P.S. There are no pure natives left in Guatemala cause for years they have breeded in between themselves mixing spanish blood and other types of European descent.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.76.205 ( talk • contribs)
First, I consider the term Latin-America has incorrect. And the use of the word "Latino" has gross!
My experience: I worked at the same office (not very big) with latin heritage ppl, and we were all Portuguese, Spanish, Argentinians and Brazilians. Truthfully, our cultures are really very similar and so I understand the British and American point of view. There's no civilizational chock, no cultural chock, our social behaviour is very similar and conversations went very easily (often choose one language to speak (Port. or Spanish), there were 3-4 native languages - if you consider galician has one: Spanish, Catalan, Galician and Portuguese). What doesnt happen when a German or a British comes around, that are culturally completly different, but in the "Latin" point of view Germans and British have similar cultures.
I think the term Latin American is not fully correct. For me, really Latin cultures are in Portugal, Spain and Italy, and in not has big extent in France/ Belgium and Romania. Greece (has many cultural similarities with latins). If you consider the Latin American countries has an all, with all its population, its not Latin (even if there are many people that are real Latinos). I find upsetting that Anglo-saxon people consider Latino has a mixed blood. Not that I dislike mix blooded people, in fact, by the contrary! But you cant name something with a name that has nothing to do with it. Latin is a culture that started in the centre of Italy and spread to some European countries in a cultural influence that toke centuries that even today pagan festivities and culture persist. My mother went it thounders uses to say "god is furious!" "Deus está furioso". She doesnt know but the Deus (dios) is not the Christian god, but Jupiter (aka Zeus or Dios or deus). Obviously, Latin culture is much more than this. BTW, I'm Portuguese.
A better term is Ibero-American (due to language and History and partially culture). I think Latin American is just a missconception. The Latins (aka Romans) didnt rule over the Americas... but over Europe and due to imigration/influence their culture prevailed in Iberia, French Riviera and Italy - Places of the Empire that were similar in weather to their original Place (central Italy). Portuguese and Spanish settlers in the Americas, they toke with them their particular Latin culture (Portuguese and Spanish), but they mixed it with African and Amerindian cultures. You register your Children (forgive me the term) after your name and not over your father's! While Latin culture completly overtook the real Latin countries (can easily be seen by the similar cultures of Portugal and Spain even thought both are seperated a thousand yrs), the Portuguese and Spanish culture overtook in some places in the Americas (it really did), but most South Americans have also a mixed culture, very far from the Latin one. Terms like "Latin American" has to be erased and wikipedia is not helping much, it is even spreading the missconception. - Pedro 02:22, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
People come to the Wikpedia for information on the topic, not to see a mismanaged mess created by political correctness. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE TERM 'LATIN AMERICA' DERIVES FROM THE LATIN BASED LANGUAGES SPOKEN BY THE MAJORITY OF LATIN AMERICA'S INHABITANTS. THE TERM HAS COME TO DESCRIBE ALL LAND IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE SOUTH OF THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S WHAT LATIN AMERICA IS, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IF THE TERM HAS DRIFTED FROM ITS ORIGINAL MEANING. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TODAY. LET'S FOCUS ON GETTING PEOPLE THE MOST ACCURATE, UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON LATIN AMERICA, WITHOUT ENGAGING IN SILLY DEBATES ABOUT SEMANTICS!!!
THIS IS REDICULOUS!!!!!
REDICULOUS!!!!!
THIS ARTICLE IS HORRIBLE, AND ALL OF YOU ARE MAKING IT SO!!!
SO WHAT IF THE TERM IS A MISNOMER???
AMERICOS VESPUCIE DIDN'T DISCOVER AMERICA EITHER????
SHOULDN'T IT BE THE "UNITED STATES OF COLUMBIA"??
AND AMERICOS WAS ITALIAN!!!!
NOT ALL AMERICANS ARE ITALIAN!!!!
THERFORE THE TERM "AMERICA" IS CULURALLY INSENSITIVE.
REDUICULOUS.
ABSURD.
ABSURD.
ALL OF YOU
ABSURD.
I'M GOING TO FIND INFOMATION ON LATIN AMERICA.
Y'ALL CAN STILL GO WHINE ABOUT HOW ROMANIA SHOULD BE INCLUDED!!!
My dear friend, you seem to have no idea of what it means to be latin. This discussion is not about political corectness but about the meaning that the words have outside of the american slangs. "latin" is an expression that had always had its own meaning and that doens't mean "latin-american" - but refers to the culture of the south-west european countries plus Romania and the countries that had a strong influence of them. This is not a question of etymology, but that is the real meaning of this word as it has always been used in Europe (and still be used now!). In Europe more than 200 millions people are refered as latin people and are proud of this identity!!. That the popular use of this word had changed recently (since 20 years not more) in the USA to refer ONLY to south/central americans is a wrong use, I'm sorry! And the role of an encyclopedia (especially an international one!) is not to spread to the world (since english is now a sort of lingua franca) the misconceptions that were born from a Typical US devied use of this word. Us, latin-Europeans we feel quite bad to be excluded from own own designation just because the American use of it have arbitrary decided to applied it to another group only. Excuse me for my bad english.
As an American born of Puerto Rican parents of European ancestry I couldn't agree more
Im sorry but to say that Romania should be included in latin american is not going to pass. Let us first examine what continent's comprise american, and then determine if Romania is on one of those continents. Rekov
Welcome to the Caribbean, Love! Some consider the term to include the Caribbean as well is just plain wrong. Is Madagascar part of Africa? Japan part of Asia? England part of Europe? Then the Caribbean is part of America, simple as that. And since it has undergone Spanish colonization, it is part of Latin America. Mind you that even Dutch or French colonized countries are, as of now, part of Latin America, due to the miscigenation in which none of these countries have a majority of unmixed ("pure") european blood. Besides that, the term Latin America is not supposed to mean just a group of people; it should also contain the proposition to include speakers of launguages that have its root on Latin. Surely, Spanish and Portuguese speakers make the most numerous group, but lets not forget Italy, France, Rumania, etc. LtDoc 22:06, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Indeed. LtDoc 16:56, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
There is no need to group all the caribean region in one unique category. caribean regions can show a wide panel of cultures. the main cultural (and "racial") common point of this region is the African influence. all these countries have recieved very important african populations in various proportions, that had left it mark on the people and its culture (salsa, merengue, reggae, ska, zouk, bachatta, etc... all these musics and danses are mostly based on african rythms (and not latin ones like the expression "latin music", wrongly applied to caribean music" can lt people think. Salsa has very few latin things in it, a lot of people wouldn't want to recognise it but these rythms are not latin but african)
In fact, the latin cultural influence (Spanish, french)is important in some countries (cuba, haiti, rep dom, guadeloupe, martinique, puerto rico), but completly absent of some other (jamaica, virgin islands, dutch islands, etc.) - what unify the caribean is the african influence, not the latin one. So there is absolutly no reason to include all the caribean in the concept of "latin america" but only the countries of this region that derive (even if it is partly) their culture (especially the language in this case) from the latin european countries.
Where did you read that I said that south America has no African influence ?? The subject was the carobean, I said that the caribean has African influences. That's doesn't mean that south America don't have too !
" UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON LATIN AMERICA, WITHOUT ENGAGING IN SILLY DEBATES ABOUT SEMANTICS " To up to date informations about somthing you have to know what about you are talking. that why semantics is important in every discussion because it is what defines a concept. Once the concept is clearly defined we can speak about it... and defining concepts is the role of an encyclopedia, not bringing the false stereotypes of the popular collective imaginary.
I have a number of points to make on this score:
I am going to delete all references to Québec in this article. As a Canadian, I can tell you what utter bosh it is to call any part of our country Latin American. Others may reinstate them if they wish, but to do so would be to put in this article something that most Canadians, including most Québécois, would find laughable. Kelisi 17:28, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
The racial diversity and intermingling that exits in Brazil is something not common around the world, and there is a wide spectrum of specific skin colours between white and black. Citizens from the US, for example, would consider a mullato, a mestizo, a mameluco, a cafuzo and a deep tanned white person to be all blacks, and that is not accurate, not by a long shot. As I said before, if you look in specific regions of Brazil, you will find greater concentrations of a specific human race. That holds true to blacks, but also whites, mullatos, mestizos, etc.
alot of u ppl need to start realizing and accepting that mexico is not or no longer an indian country alot of light skiined mexicans say that the spaniards took their culuture which is absolulty stupid u probly are from spanish descent duh, ok look mexico has 106 million ppl thats more than anyother country except brazil in latin america, so with that said their is more diversity in mexico than alot of other latin american countries. everyone assumes that just becuz ur mexican ur indian..lets get facts straight here i bet u you all dint kno that in puebla there is a italian population that speak a dialect of the language venetian and in i think chiuahaha ther is dutch and german settlers who speek this language similar to dutch and in the state of zacatecas theirs alot of spaniards, englishmen,irish and so on..so if u refer to latinos as indians then southern mexico cood count considering that southern mexico has the majority of indians but as a whole mexico is mixed so stop confusing us for indians... also id like to point out that u dont have to be white looking to be of european descent look at spain there are more tan skined meditrean ppl than anything else and also remeber to the spaniards in mexico that we have moor ancestry wich cood also explain ur tan skin, dont think that just becuz ur tannd that ur indian thats just my opnion. so yea u shood think of peru as indian the majority off ppl their are indian and so on..
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I have a number of points to make on this score:
I am going to delete all references to Québec in this article. As a Canadian, I can tell you what utter bosh it is to call any part of our country Latin American. Others may reinstate them if they wish, but to do so would be to put in this article something that most Canadians, including most Québécois, would find laughable. Kelisi 17:28, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
The best definition for Latin America is parts of the Americas explored by Columbus that were founded for the southern European countries where Romance Languages are spoken since French-speaking areas aren't generally included with Latin America. Italian, however, is spoken throughout Latin America by a small minority predominately in Argentina and their influence in cuisine is also very notable. I don't get why Italians, Spaniards, and Portuguese aren't labeled as Latins in Latin American countries and why Columbus Day celebrations are strongly discouraged by the likes of Hugo Chávez and its not fair that they aren't allowed to speak Latin. - Cantor
Why do those from the U.S. have to put their ethnic and racial concepts on Latin America. Why not try and assume that there are more nuances in the demographic descriptions of groups. For example, the term Black is quite vague, but mostly because people will not recognize someone of mixed race background as Black, because Black means dark skinned. The U.S. concept of race in this instant does not work for Latin America. Chriscarlos
Isnt the expression "cono sur" misspelled? I believe the spanish equivalent would be "cone sur" since cono in spanish means... well, its a bad word for somethig nice! :) LtDoc 16:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
_____________________________________________________________
I made a few changes to the "Demographics" section today. First, I added southern Brazil to the list of regions with majoritarily European populations (alongside Argentina and Uruguay). Second, I clarified that large mulatto populations are found throughout southeastern and northeastern Brazil. I understand that it might be controversial to refer to subnational units in the article, but, in the case of Brazil, regional diversity justifies that different sections of the country be described separately as far as demographics and culture are concerned. I also edited the "Language" section to clarify that Portuguese is both an official and a national language in Brazil. The term "official language", when used in isolation, might suggest a situation similar to one that exists in several African countries where there is an official (usually European) language used by the government and for instruction at schools, and several local native languages that are spoken most often at home. In Brazil, of course, that is not the case, as nearly all families speak Portuguese at home (even though there may be significant differences between the standard language and the popular vernacular). Mbruno 16:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Cut from the intro:
I think we can all agree that people who describe themselves in their language as Latino are the primary residents of " Latin America".
I see the divide in two ways: geographical and cultural:
Okay? Entiende? D'accord? Uncle Ed 20:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Where is the cultural split between latin-America and north-America ?
Where is Québec then ? In north America (geographically and socio-politically) and linguistically and culturally in latin-America... I think that it has no meaning to oppose latin-America with North-America (most of Mexico is in North America too). We can only oppose Latin-America with Anglo-America.
Are the French-speaking islands of the Carribean generally considered part of Latin America?
Parts of the Americas which currently speak French or were former French colonies, constitute part of Latin America. To suggest that the French somehow fall out side of the Latin category is absurd, certainly there are some major differences between Franco-American colonies/nations and Iberian-American colonies/nations they still remain Latin in a cultural-linguistic context. Also keep in mind that for the last hundred years of the Spanish Empire (roughly the 18th century) the kings of Spain were from the French Bourbon family!! Ultimately, to choose to separate the French from Latin Aemrica is absurd and completely ahistorical and acultural.
" Certainly there are some major differences between Franco-American colonies/nations and Iberian-American colonies/nations they still remain Latin in a cultural-linguistic context. "
I agree with that there are differences, but we have too notice that the same kind of major differences are existing inside Iberian-american ex-colonies too : differences between Bolivia and Républica Dominicana are bigger than between Quebec and Argentina.
Anywhere that French is the official language and widely spoken in the new world should be included in the category: Latin America.
Anyone who has been to Brazil (Portuguese), Mexico (Spanish) and Quebec (French) and understands the meaning of the words: 'Latin' and 'America' will agree, Quebec is very 'Latin', culturally and linguistically and it is in the Americas.
Hm.. the more I click my way around on these pages, the more I come to realize that perspectives and understandnings on all these exotic regions and continents vary and are highly subjective and even biased. Perhaps the English usage is much more inconsistent, unprecise and overlapping than the native-speakers' usage. If so, this is similar to other vaguely-defined regions that are found in the minds of distant groups of people and mean different things to them. See also Talk:Siberia, Talk:Scandinavia, Talk:Middle East and Talk:Balkans, and also exonym versus autonym for similar discussions of namings and meanings. // Big Adamsky 18:05, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
As a historian I feel that Latin America refers to those parts of the Americas which were conquered and colonized by Europeans speaking Latin-based languages. This would include all areas and nation-states of the Americas which were previously Spanish, Portuguese, and French colonies. The distinction between Latin America and the rest of the Americas is not necessarily a North/South distinction although it certainly becomes one in popular conceptions of the Americas. The main distinction between Latin America and the rest of the Americas has to do with the imposition of European culture (including traditions of law, government, social institutions, relgion, etc.) and language. Spain, Portugal, and France all cultural traditions which were more similar to eachother than to English or Dutch traditions. For example, in terms of law all three of these imperial powers followed the codified Roman tradition where as the English followed a common law tradition. To reiterate, the use of "Latin" in "Latin American" highlights a general cultural-linguistic background imparted to the colonies of Spain, Portugal and France.
Is this term biased? Yes. Does this term overlook the important differences in the cultures of the Americas caused by indigenous cultural groups or African cultures? Yes. Is this term horribly flawed and in need of replacement? No
While certainly the term Latin America overlooks the presence and influence of Native American and African cultures on European colonies and later American nation-states, this term does serve a function in describing a large part of the Americas and making a distinction between regions conquered and colonized by "different" traditions of European culture. On the one hand, in this sense Latin America is euro-centric and devalues the history and culture of the Americas prior to 1492. Yet, this term has become so standard that it will be very hard to abandon it or replace it. On the other hand, the conquest and colonization of the Americas did affect every indigenous culture in this hemisphere. While many Native American cultures exist and flurish today, they cannot be seen as perfect recreations of a pre-European tradition. Every culture in the Americas changed as a result of Europeans. Some changed more than others and a different rates, but all indigenous cultures saw some changes. In this sense, the term Latin America can encompass the changes that European colonization brought to native cultures and the way in which modern cultures in Latin America have grown out of indigenous, European, and, in most places, African cultural traditions.
Although I am not a historian, I support your input on the definition of Latin America. Rather than searching for the exact meaning of the word "latin", and its correspondence to the phenomenon it is meant to describe, the notion of "Latin America" should be considered from the perspective of its use in History, Geography, Geopolitics etc. These are not natural sciences. Expressions are thus frequently perverted or imprecise (from a linguistic point of view). So is the case of the appropriation of the term "latin" to describe a region that includes also non-latin cultures and languages whithin the borders of nation-states (indigenous people, for example). But the colonization criteria should not be considered the only one to determine the boundaries between Latin America and non-Latin America.
I think the current use of the term Latin America clearly excludes certain latin-colonized regions within the borders of other american States (the Québec case). In international affairs and diplomacy, the term might encompass some countries such as Belize, Suriname or Guyana. These are sovereign States that share with Ibero-American States not only the lands usually refered to as Latin America (geographic criteria), but also the developing-country aspect of the region (economic/political criteria). The opposition between developed and developing countries is, I tend to believe, one that should not be downplayed when defining Latin America. (it further explains why québecois do not consider themselves Latin Americans). By the same token, even though French Guyana, Guadaloupe and Martinique (departments of France) could be considered as part of Latin America geographically and culturally, they are not independent-developing States, a reason for possibly excluding them from the Latin America scope (technically they are part of the European Union). Haiti, a former French colony independent and underdeveloped, is usually considered as part of Latin America.
On the other hand, take the case of Puerto Rico. It is a US territory, economically developed and politically dependent. And yet nobody will doubt that Puerto Rico is part of Latin America, in a certain sense at least. In the Puerto Rico case, culture and language seem to be the most determinant criteria. In the Québec case, quite the contrary.
The bottom line is that there is no exact formula to determine which countries or territories are part of Latin America and which are not. Geography, History, Politics, Economics, Culture, Language are elements to take into consideration. And these elements may apply differently for each case. Savvy words such as "usually" and "often" are very welcomed in the article. --- Adelius
One of the most comprehensive history collections about Latin America (Bethell, Leslie. "The Cambridge History of Latin America". Cambridge University Press - ten volumes published between 1984 and 1985; I have some volumes of the Brazilian Translation - "História da América Latina. São paulo: EdUSP, 2002) adopts the following criteria for determining the scope of "Latin America": (i) continental America south of the US in which Portuguese and Spanish languages are predominately spoken; (ii) the Spanish-speaking Caribbean islands; and (iii) Haiti ("by convention"). It expressly excludes (i) North American territories conquered by Spain and currently part of US; (ii) British, Dutch and French islands of the Caribbean; and (iii) the Guyanas (Guyana, Suriname and French Guyana). The preface of the collection treats this definition as an "assumption". Another interesting case is the so-called Latin America Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone, instituted by the Treaty for the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons in Latin America (Treaty of Tlatelolco), of 1967 (please see
http://www.opanal.org/). In spite of the somewhat restricted term "Latin America", several British, Dutch and French ex-colonies or dependancies, in the Caribbean and in continental America, were parties to the treaty. In 1990, by resolution, it was decided by the States parties to the treaty, in recognition of "the fact that the adhesion of various Caribbean States to the Treaty of Tlatelolco reflects the growing plurality of the Agency for the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons in Latin America", that the expression "and the Caribbean" should be added. It seems that, in that context, Caribbean Anglo and Dutch ex-colonies and dependencies are (or feel they are) less Latin American than continental Anglo and Dutch ex-colonies (ex vi Guyana and Suriname). Again, both cases show there is no perfect distinction between Latin America and non-Latin America. -- Adelius adelius 20:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC
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The problem is that none of the different definitions of "Latin America" proposed on this talk page seem to be consistent with the article. If the criteria to define "Latin America" are language (derived from Latin), religion (Roman Catholicism) and law (civil law as opposed to common law tradition), then majoritarily French-speaking Québec should be included in Latin America, together with other Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries. If on the other hand the criterion is a racial one, then not only Québec, but also majoritarily-white Argentina or Uruguay should be excluded. The economic test as suggested by E Pluribus Anthony seems to be valid and is consistent with the map shown in the article. However, if economic criteria are used, then I suggest we change the title from "Latin America" to "Low-Income Countries in the Americas" as opposed to "high-income countries in the Americas" (i.e. the US an d Canada). Personally, I think the article should be simply deleted or perhaps broken down into 3 separate categories (respectively Spanish America, Portuguese America and French America). Mbruno 12:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
but rather a band whichs plays traditional music from Western Mexico. The music style Mariachi bands play and that is known all over the world is called "ranchera" music...
Not absolutely true.
Please try to improve it with more data.
From all of this discussion I think it is important to acknowledge that the term "Latin America" does not one meaning which everyone agrees on. That alone teaches us something about the term itself. Some view it as a useful term, but the list of countries which ought to fall under its umbrella is somewhat subjective.
It seems that the problem arises from trying to find too many similarities in a large and varied region.
If we look at is as a linguist term it ought to include places such as Quebec and Haiti and not places such as Aruba, the Bahamas, or Suriname. To reverse this is to put the linguistic definition in jeopardy in favor of one of two more common usages of the word- the economic one. "Latin America" has, in many circles, particularly business and political ones- to describe the so called developing countries of most of the western hemisphere. This definition also has its flaws, as it tries to group multiple countries with various economic aspects under one common banner. Cuba, Peru, Haiti, and Brazil are very different economically, but they are all considered "Latin American" countries.
The other popular usage of the term is the cultural aspect, one which tries to suggest some sort of singular identity from Juarez all the way down to the southern tip of Argentina. This latter usage is of benefit primariy to those who produce and market cultural products- such as music, hoping that regardless of what "Latin America" is or isn't, if everyone in "Latin America" would buy their products- that is just fine with them. Those who produce the "Latin Grammies" fall among this category. Could someone who spoke Papiamento win such an award? How about someone who had lived their entire life in the United States?
The people who live in the countries under consideration generally don't find it useful. They identify very little with those of neighboring countries. They play football together, and haggle over oil, and mountains, and sea access, and they tend to enjoy rice and perhaps beans. They may speak similar languages, or not, but they don't want to be called by a blanket term which tears them from the uniqueness of their own nation. Most of them only use the term after they come to the United States. A Brazilian is very proud of their land and people, and rightfully so, so there is no reason to group them with others who have equal reason to be proud of their accomplishments.
There is an element in the United States that encourages division along some sort of illusory ethnic lines by promoting "latin americanism" in the United States, and preaching that they must band together to resist those that would do them harm. They preach this because they profit from it, and it gives them power. It is by these individuals more than anybody else that the term "latin america" is used and promoted in the social circles, the business circles, and perhaps above all else, in the education circles, creating division where there need not be any and preaching some sort of unity which is not present and never has been.
Read this to see exactly the reasons why. white_people
This page is still listed on the
list of featured articles Wikipedia should have as an article needing cleanup. The {{cleanup-date|May 2005}} tag was removed without explanation by the anonymous IP
User:86.131.132.163 at 02:10, 27 November 2005. The article
has come a long way since it was tagged with the original Cleanup request, but since this is said to be an essential topic (with the corresponding high standard of quality), and the requested Film section still isn't there, I think this article should still be tagged with a Cleanup template. I'm adding {{cleanup-priority}}.
--
Mr. Billion
06:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
The item "Arts" of Latin America should be more representative of each country. I doubt that most of the artist of the "continent" are from Ecuador and none from argentina or other counties
There is two maps, you can talk about them and they can be improve. Talk to improve this article, not for your own opinion. Yug
The article ought to use the map without Belize, Suriname and Guyana as those countries are not part of Latin America. Thanks for making that change. I was thinking of doing it myself, but you beat me to it :) NoIdeaNick 14:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, now that i've found this
I think it is probably a better choice. It's much easier to see which countries are and are not included. NoIdeaNick 14:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Edit: arrgg forgot siggy and Wikipedia wouldn't let me add it. Here.-- Quintucket 07:12, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand your problems to include Haiti or French guyana in latin America. I heard some of you pointing that they would share more with English speaking nation such as Jamaica and Belize. Haiti and Guyana are lands are situated in America, speak a latin language and are with a huge catholic majority... while Belize or Jamaica speak a germanic language and are mainly of protestant traditions. the comparision with Jamaica and Belize has nothing to do with the latin/germanic thing, but with the fact that all those countries have mainly a population of black people (african origins). It is interesting to point that Dominican republic for exemple have also a population whose genetic origins is found in West Africa while most of you don't have any propblem to include it in the latin American concept. French Guyana and Haiti are much closer to Dom. Rep. than to Jamaica because they share not only racial origins but also linguistic and religious similarities.
So, I oppose to show a ligther green over F. Guyana and Haiti since it has no meaning to do so. if you want to differenciate countries with heavy African population to the latin concept, so you should put Dominicn Republic and Also Cuba in light green. But It would be quite racist to my opinion.
Can the author of that section please give us a link to the sources? I've searched all through the IMF and World Bank's websites, and I could not find GDP per capita figures for 2005, not even with the link provided, which gives us data for 2004. The figures in this article seem to be taken ONLY from the CIA Factbook, which by the way are only "estimates" (since not all countries of the world have finished calculating last year's GDP; in fact, Mexico will announce this week the figure for 2005 and the growth rate, which means that whatever you find about Mexico's GDP for 2005 is only an estimate; remember, CIA does not calculate GDP, each country does that, CIA Factbook gives a report). The author of that section says he "calculated" himself (or so I understand) GDP per capita by taking GDP (from whatever source that I have not been able to corroborate), with the list of countries by population. Why would he have to do that? I mean, the last report of GDP made by the World Bank in 2005 for GDP 2004 gave you both GDP and GDP per capita, as well as GNI and GNI per capita. Why would the World Bank and/or FMI only report GDP so that we would have to make the appropriate calculations ourselves? In summary, could you please provide a link to the World Bank's and IMF reports of GDP 2005? I could use that information for 2005, if it does exists, in many other articles. -- J.Alonso 18:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Also, what does this phrase mean: The Latinamerican G7 is composed of: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru and Venezuela. And between them increase commerce in the region, improving the "smaller" countries that surrond them. First of all, I've never heard of a so-called Latinamerican G7. It might exist though, could you please site your source? (I know that a G-3 exists which is a free trade agreement between Mexico, Colombia and Venezuela). Secondly, what does the second phrase mean, that the increment in trade improves smaller countries? -- J.Alonso 18:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
It is not giving a clear definition. Part of the article claims the Caribbean is in "Latin American" then another part says its not. The former British West Indies are *not* in Latin America nor have they ever been in it. The British West Indies, do not speak Spanish/Portuguese and they are not "Latin American". "Central America" yes, but not in Latin America. "Latin America" is all about countries that relate to the Iberian Peninsula. Which inlcudes Portugual and Brasil which was a part of Portugal. "Latin America" Is all about persons of Latin/Hispanic decents. CaribDigita 02:40, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
The UN doesn't regard them as the same region.
Both Britain [4] , and Canada [5] both break the Caribbean out as a separate individual area. It is only really a trend in the US of calling the British West Indies as "Latin America". The British West Indies (along with Canada) would be the Commonwealth. The French countries also no longer use "Latin" America either they go by Francophonie. CaribDigita 21:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
It seems difficulty to some of you to realise that to be part of latin-America, a country should be in America and beign of latin roots. This is the reason why all the caribean is not included in the concept. A part of the caribean is latin (Cuba, Dom Rep, Haiti), others are not at all (Jamaica, Antigua, Virgin islands, etc.) whose cumture has been influenced by the English one (language, protestantisme), in opposistion with countreis with Spanish, portuguese or French influences. The same way, all south America is not latin America too (Guyana and Surinam have nothing latin in them). Latin america is a CULTURAL concept and not a geographical one even if some people use it wrongly with geographical conotations.
French is also spoken in Argentina and Brazil
I'm positive that titling this article "Latin America" is a little politically incorrect, or at least an example of American dialect, the article should be named properly - it isn't too difficult to write a subheading "otherwise known as Latin America". Also, other pages referring to "Latin America" should be edited accordingly. It would be like having a Wikipedia page titled "Yanks" describing the americans - that's the British term for Americans btw.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/default.stm - You can watch the latest edition of Newsnight online at it's website, as it's a daily show, the latest is only online for 24 hours. This week, is "Latin America" week and will focus on a different aspect of Latin America in each show. Monday's program covers the upcoming elections in Peru, Venezuelan oil and has interviews with many latin america commentators. Keep an eye on these programs, they could help an upcoming AID. - Hahnch e n 15:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I just want to add my opinion on this issue. I have lived half my life in Brazil and can say that I have never seen a Brazilian consider himself latino/hispanic/etc. (which the Boston article mentions, for example) and nobody would ever say that Brazil is part of Latin America. Even outside of Brazil I have never seen this reference.
Of course, I realize that Brazil was originally part of Portugal and the language is Latin-based and all that, so of course I understand the logic, but the way this term is used in the present-day and how all this is considered, I would never say Brazil is Latin America.
I would vote for Brazil being removed. Haiti too, I suppose. The Spanish-speaking countries of the Americas are the only ones I would consider Latin America. -04:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I think this is an interesting point. The term Latin America is so ridiculous, that some are trying to force people who see no point in identifying themselves as such to do so. Most people who are interested in the term use it as a way to group OTHE pR people, primarily for their own benefit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm ( talk • contribs)
I think this section is indeed relevant. As a Brazilian, I can attest that basically Brazilians don't view themselves as Latin Americans but accept (or resign to) the fact that "by definition" others may put them in this box. So I think it's Ok to include Brazil in the overall definition BUT necessarily with the mention, at the top of the page where the US-centric definition is given, that according to most Brazilians, Latin-American corresponds to Spanish-speaking America or rather anything in "LA" but Brazil (again, Hispanic America is as wrong , as Hispania in ancient Rome included Portugal, thus Spanish America should be the right word instead). People seeking proof of this should only see companies with offices for "Latin America & Brazil". In general most Brazilians actually will challenge being called Latin-Americans, except for opinionated, ideological, left-wing beliefs (I would say 20% of the population at best ). Bottom line: while mentioning what LA means to (wrongly) to US (south of the border), it is fair to mention what it means (wrongly also) to Brazilians ("North-West of the border"). Mpbb 21:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I would like to add my tuppence worth - as a Politics Student, I am doing a course entitled "Politics of Latin America" and that includes Brazil. It doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong, but that would be the perspective received from British Universities.
IMO there's a high level of repetitevness in the article, and yet lack of actual content.
Languages spoken in LA has been discussed at three occasions in the article. At least information given in the second paragraph (introduction) of the article is redundant. This information should be moved into apropiate section(s).
The same goes for political definition of the LA. There should be a spearate section that should (try) to clear up what is and what is not LA. And my opinion is that Quebec IS NOT Latin America.
Speaking of politics and relating to history, I think that the article would benefit from more historical content and observation or two on current political situation in the region. It is ridiculous that economy section is lot bigger than history section, and all that because of a single table. I wonder if that table has a place in this article.
On the other hand culture section needs to be expanded and cleand up. List of painters should belong to ... list of painters. Or only notable painters should be mentioned with a sentence or two about their influence and significance. Other painters should be mentioned in their respective country's culture articles. And what about sculptors, modern artists that make instalations ...?
On the other other hand film section, although it bears "please expand" tag is quite good compared to other subsections.
I know it easier to criticize than to do actual work, but I don't have much knowledge about LA, and not too many time on my hands, and this points that I have made should be only taken as suggestions and are open for discussion.--
RockyMM
13:45, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I read this article many times and also I followed the discusions. Here are my comments:
Just for polemize: If we put in a broader definition of Latin America french parts of Canada and Lousiana, what about US? I'm not talking only about historical Spain colonial territories (Florida,Texas, California, etc.) but I'm also considering the fact that US has the 5th largest concentration of spanish speakers. baloo_rch 00:07, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I made some small changes to the etymology section, I feel that there needs to be a consideration to the ACTUAL historic context of the term, rather than just have a section that deals with the gripes and issues that anybody believes are right. I am sure that the hounds will make me pay for these changes (in fact, I know a nasty retort will probably come from my friend Pluribus Anthony, who seems to have a strong opinion about every article related to terminology south of the U.S. border). I will be checking back on comments. And no, I'm not hiding, this is the very first WP article that I edit, so I have no idea how to set an account.-- 71.128.47.121 22:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Do we need the long list of painters? Or does anyone know enough about the subject to trim the section? Maurreen 17:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The language is crude, at least in regards to the European conquest of Latin America. For example, the amount of people killed by small pox ranges wildly, even among the finest historians in the field. For example, there is not nearly enough evidence to justify that only 15% of the former population lived after the European conquest. Birth rates actually went up during colonialism, the sizes of cities grew--not because of European expansion, at least in Mexico and Central America--and archeological evidence points towards a large die off of people a few hundred years before the Europeans came in the 15th and 16th centuries. The European elites merely removed older elites from power. The Aztecs were also very despotic, so let's not try and moralize this thing to fit our 21st century ideologies. I agree that colonialism caused many wrongs, many of which exist today, but to be so partisan is rediculous. To publish in the form it was in would be horrible. Still, my edits might need a little grammar, as I am not trying to lay down the "law", but to remonstrate and correct as necessary.
The history section also has nothing about Latin American history after the independence movements. As the Latin American History page itself has little to no information in English pertaining to this era, I think that more information here is especially needed considering the lack of it elsewhere. CrashCart9 08:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
What people "identify" with is up to each individual, of course, but sociologists find that broad classes of people tend to group themselves together.
Those who regard the term "Latin American" as describing them well may indeed feel a kinship or "identity" as " Latin Americans". Whether or not Brazilians apply the label "Latin American" to themselves or not can best be decided by sociologists or pollsters. Let's see some research on this, anyone want to google it up or (shudder) actually read a book?
As for Hyphenated Americans, if people use terms like "Mexican-American" to refer to U.S. citizens of Mexican heritage, then that's what the word means to them. Others, perhaps, may insist that the "American" part of "Mexican-American" ought to refer to America (continent) rather than America (country); so that term doesn't work for them.
We contributors ought not to prescribe what terms ought to mean - that would make us advocates. We should describe neutrally how people in general use these terms. -- Uncle Ed 18:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
As a native speaker of English and a student of both Latin and Ancient Greek, I protest the sentiment expressed in the beginning of this article that English is a Germanic language. I will yield that English is not a true Romance language, as it did not descend directly from Latin, but it is likely made up of more Romance language derivations than Germanic, some would say a majority of English words are from Latin and Ancient Greek, and at very least it is not to be considered Germanic. DougOfDoom talk 23:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Great! Problem solved. Everything in the Americas is "Latin"- except the dutch speaking parts.
Just kidding. Fine! English is considered a Germanic language as it has Germanic roots from the "Germanic" tribes (the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes)which migrated from the European continent to the island of Great Britain. The underlying structure of the language stems from this Germanic genesis. Although both contemporary English and German are very different from what they once were, this linguistic heritage is still used to describe the commonalities.
There are 3 primary methods by which English became heavily influenced by Latin. Although the Romans did rule England for a time, there are actually very few remnants of this in the language. Later, as Christianity spread to England, a number of terms entered the language- Bible, Baptize (which itself is of Greek origin, the word, not the practice), Pope, Bishop, Saint. There are a surprising number of words which were NOT imported, apparently because there was a sufficient one either already in use or a ready substitute (God, sin, Holy Ghost, Church) in the local vernacular.
The second, and perhaps the most enduring stems from the Norman invasion. This brought French to the royal court, and English has never been the same since. However, the bulk of the grammar and the structure were never supplanted by French. Most of the words absorbed were nouns and verbs, but the structure of French, much of it of Latin origin, never made it to English. Among these would be the use of gender in both nouns and adjectives, and the various conjugations. Most of the words taken already had a commonly used word, and this is a great source of the many synonyms in English, many of which have taken on their own subtle differences (example door and portal).
The third instance began in about the early 1700s and lasted until abou the late 1800s. This is the deliberate introduction of primarily scientific terms of Latin origin into the English language. Much of this was to have standard scientific terms among all the languages of Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm ( talk • contribs) 00:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
No, English is not derived from latin, but from Germanic, that is just a fact. that English have borrowed words of Latin origin doesn't make it a Latin language. Mst Romance words in English are more used in "official", scientific, diplomatic or "literary" speech. But most of the words used in everyday english are 80%germanic; The struture and origin of the language is almost 100% Germanic. Above this, in Europe, the term "latin", when applied to peoples has cultural, ethnical and geographical conotations that English culture don't have at all :
- A geographical situation and direct cultural link to the mediterranean sea, (settlments of Greeks, Romans, phenicians, etc)
- Influence of mediterranean way of life :
- food (wine, olives, etc). way of life linked to a warmer climate. mainly mediterranean-based behaviours.
- societies with a catholic history and herency
To be clear, latin-America is the part of America whose countries have been mainly build on those latin cultures, by opposition to those buid on English and Dutch ones. That is quite simple. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabb leb ( talk • contribs) 00:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Compared to romance languages and to the countries of latin culture, English culture are definitively a country of Germanic (northern European) culture. (Unsigned comment from an anonymous author).
I did some research and it seems like "Latin America" is a synonym for Central America, maybe including parts of Columbia, Venezuela and some other South American countries. I think this is the best definition of the area in respect to geography. The map should show the core Latin American countries in a solid color and the other ones included only sometimes in a lighter shade or even in stripes.
At the same time, I think Central America defines a geographic region and Latin America defines a cultural region. -- Shawn 16:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Once again, Latin America is NOT defined by a US-centred geography or the popular mediatic stereotypes (like "something south of US, with tropical food and climate, rythmic danses and exotic mixed peoples"). This caricatural, almost racist definition would be just a little bit correct (with heavy generalisations), only to central America, Spanish Caribean and northern Part of South America. Excluding half of Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina and most of Chile of the concept (wich in reality represent an important part of the region, maybe half of it, wich is "latin" in the European meaning and not follows at all the "US latinAmerican stereotypes"). The definition of latin America is so simple, you just have to forget the preconcieved ideas you have about it : it is made of just two words with simple meanings : - "Latin", a reference to South European cultures of romance languages ( Latin Europe). - "America", a reference to the contient(s) call America (North, South and Central, not just "U.S.A")
I have included the names of Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Clarice Lispector, and Jorge Amado in the list of "other notable Latin American writers" to make the list more representative of Brazilian literature (there was no Brazilian author on the list before). 200.177.26.201 22:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
In the beginning the article says that 20 independant countries make up Latin America and in the picture caption. However, later on there is a listing of countries with 21. I also looked up links and found that most said 20+ countries. Someone should straighten this out, and preferably put up a couple refs for whichever choice is decided upon. Strongfaithin1 22:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)strongfaithin1 Strongfaithin1 22:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Is Latin America a part of the western world? I'm asking this because at the western world page this issue became a very passionate discussion.
Yes it is part of the western world, because it derives its culture from Western European countries as much ae US and Canada. LAtin America is not a copy of Europe, but US and Canada are not either and had African an native influences too. some countries in Latin America, such as Argentina have more Population of European descent that the US, why it would be not western ?--
Fabb leb
23:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, Chile is a pretty eurocentric nation... baloo_rch 03:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
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or the caribbean? Canada is LATIN america too they have some of the frenchies!!! that leaves the united states alone? with certain islands of the caribbean and the falkan islands? not even if we count the southern states of the United States that include hispanics and french heritage; california, texas, arizona, florida, louisiana, etc The solution here is to first of all rename latin america, is too wide to be even considered and may be equal as criollo land, creole land not adequate because if you check canada and the united states they are also a mixture of european countries as well. We need a more wise subdivision. Hispanamerica and Portugalamerica. It might sound funny but it is less funny than latin america.
note: canada is NOT considered part of Latin America. just a little fyi. and "frenchies" are not considered part of latin america either. dont use racial slurs - Bagel7
Hi Mr. (fyu) For Your Understanding, I was being sarcastic and frenchies before some US/americans turned into a depictive adjective it was a friendly one. and fyi I'm in part french and don't have you ideas of racism!
Don Quijote's Sancho
06:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
It's simple, in the United States they are all "Latin America". Everywhere else in the world then Belize and Jamaica are not. Those countries themselves do not even consider themselves Latin American. CaribDigita 17:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
P.S. The term "Latin America" didn't exist in Pre-columbian times. It only came about since Napoleon the III CaribDigita 22:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
The fact of the matter is "Latin America" is about cultural identity. Just as "Anglo-America" or "British Commonwealth" are about cultural identity... If people want to know exactly what in the Americas are in-- Latin American all one has to do is look at who has joined the Latin Union. Countries which don't feel they have a foundation in Latin America haven't joined. Just pickout the countries in the Americas. My example, as I've brought up before was the period after independence for the majority of the British territories in the Caribbean. After joininh the United Nations bodes they lobbied for the name of the United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America (as one example) to be renamed as the United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean. Additionally the areas south of the United States at the U.N. are now designated as "GRULAC" The Group of Latin American and the Caribbean (GRULAC). Not "GRULA" You can put Barbados et. al. but just understand people in Barbados, Jamaica, or other parts of the English Speaking Americas etc. do not regard themselves as a part of Latin America.
Some quick examples:
-- Note 10th paragraph "one of the highest in the Caribbean and Latin America"
P.s. this is also being debated on Yahoo Answers. [1] CaribDigita 22:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
PS: Cuba is not part of the Organization of the American States. Does it mean it is not in part of the Americas?? :) -- Ninarosa 02:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
The truth of the matter seems to be that Latin America is the poor countries in the New World. Full stop. By the way, it sounds rather offensive to open-minded people who live in these countries. Maybe this article should only mention the real physical and cultural regions: Caribeean, Central America, the Andesian Countries, with the large countries by themselves, as they are all very different one from the other.
This is the crux of this lengthy discussion. The term "Latin America" lends itself very well to the notion that "Latin America" ought to mean the countries or regions in the Americas where the primar language is a romance language (a descendant language of Latin). This notion is simple, yet highly deceptive. Setting regional orthographers aside, when the general population refer to "Latin America" they mean something entirely different. It is often used to describe a certain state in economic progress, or a common colonial heritage. Many people employ it to mean those countries where either Spanish or Portuguese are the primary languages. The term has always been somewhat of an ambiguous one, and has always had its problems, ever sicne its inception. It has since taken on many meanings none of which are close to its original intent, and its original intent has nothing to do with "Latin America" means today.
The term is used more often in the United States than it is in all the collective countries it purpotedly includes.
The fact of the matter is that when the average person from the United States refers to Latin America, he or she means Mexico and everything south of that in this hemisphere. (If they think about it, which they usually won't, they will probably exclude English and Dutch speaking places.) It's not intended to be racist, that's just the way it is, however the term may have come to be used originally. Latino is generally used to mean people from that area, with the probable exception of the English and Dutch speaking people. Hispanic generally refers to people from Spanish speaking countries.
I often wish there were a standard English term for United States citizens... I'm visiting Honduras now, and thankfully they just know, I don't have to worry about making the mistake of saying I'm from America.
-brbigam
actually north south and central were one continent, and still are though many pl said that was changed by americans in panama... tough is still one continent a lot of people ae ignorant to that
Nice try. No doubt there are other competing designations. By the way, can you disambiguate "North America" from norteamericano? My atlas says Mexico and Central America are both in North America (since the only other nearby continent is South America). Ed Poor
Actually, most references I have seen (World Book, Britannica) include Haiti as part of "Latin America".
TO EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO DISCUSS THE ORGINS OR CORRECTNESS OF THE TERM "LATIN AMERICA", PLEASE CONFINE THIS DEBATE TO THE "ETYMOLOGY" SECTION OF THE ARTICLE. YOUR OBSESSIONS WITH THIS DETAIL IS RUINING THE REST OF THE SECTIONS.
It is not appropriate to turn this article into a debate on the term "Latin America". The fact is that the term "Latin America" is widely accepted and used in the English language, and therefore the article should use that term. If "Latin America" ever becomes politically incorrect in English, then and only then will Wilipedia not use it. As a reference to Wikipedia serves a descrptive, not perscritive role. We should explain the world to our readers, not shove our view of it down their throats. This article is the worst of the Region articles because its development has been held up by this pointless debate. Follow standard English Language practice, use the term Latin America. Save the debate for the "eytmology" section. I'm out. Grow up.
It is not question not using the term "latin-America", but using it correctly, knowing to what it refers. what defines latin-America is not being situated south of USA but being speaking latin languages, that's the way it is. If you want to include english or Dutch speaking countries like Jamiaca, Belize, Guyana or Surinam in it, it just means that you don't understand the meaning of the term "latin". It would be as incorrect than if I define "Anglo America" to be every country situated north of Mexico, so to include French-speaking Quebecers in that concept that canno't reffer to them.
The whole problem of this discussion come from the fact that wikipedia defines latin America as a geographical concept while it is a cultural one. " Latin America is a geographical region consisting of countries in the Western Hemisphere south of the United States. " How this first definition could be correct !? First of all it is a very American-centred point of view, the rest of the planet don't define latin-America with being situated south of the USA but with being the countries of America where latin languages are spoken. Secondly, why just being situated south of USA would make a country part of a specific geographical region ? Are "Tierra del fuego" and "Tijuana" really part of the same geographical region ??! They are not even in the same mass continent, have completly different climates and are separated by thousands of miles (or kilometers)... "latin-America" canno't be anything else than a cultural concept (especially a linguistic one).
Quebec is not inclued in "latin america" for the simple reason that Quebec is not a country but a provinced part of a majoritary english-speaking country. When the term "latin-america" was introduced Canada had already falled under english rule, and the french-speaking population was decreasing rapidly. So, at this time one one thought that a part of it would still being of latin culture. The quebecers were obliged to use english at work, school, etc. So the expression were not"latin-america was only applied to the countries were the official language and the majoritary culture was of latin origin. The things have changed in Quebec in the20th century when the catholic church tried to unify the french-speaking people and increasing their population (incitaing them to make a lot of children). In a few decades the number of french canadians become much bigger and this people obtained much reconnaissance of their identity in the seventies in the proveince of Quebec were they are a majority. French become the official language in this province (at work, school, etc.) The fact of having being ruled long time by anglo-saxons (english candian culture) has made that Quebecers ahave lost a big part of their latin identity outside of the language much of their way of life, food, music, mentality is quite similar to the anglo-american one.
Taking the inverse of the Quebec argument, what would areas of the United States which are majority Spanish-speaking, or very heavily-"Latin American" influenced, be considered? What is a native Miamian of non-Hispanic descent (meaning my parents do not speak Spanish as their native language), but who speaks Spanish and is familiar with many Latin American cultures, considered? Where do they fit in? Where does Miami, the so-called "Capital of Latin America" fit in? Realize there is an anomalous non-Hispanic-descended "Anglo" population of the United States that could very well get away with being called "Hispanic," the same as if they had emigrated to Buenos Aires and grown up there. Are they Latin Americans? I'd say at least as much as i.e., Jennifer Lopez is. :P
"What is a native Miamian of non-Hispanic descent (meaning my parents do not speak Spanish as their native language), but who speaks Spanish and is familiar with many Latin American cultures, considered? Where do they fit in?" They fit in North Americans. Just because you know a language and are familiar with that culture, doesn´t mean that you are latin. I´m Portuguese. I know English, I´m familiar with their culture, I´m living in england and that doesn´t make me English or Anglo (I hope!)I think that´s a stupid question. If their mother tongue isn´t Spanish, Portuguese, etc., they aren´t Latinos.
"IberoAmerica offently includes Spain and Portugal." -- Can't figure out what writer was trying to say. Removing "offently". ("Often"? I don't think it would be quite right to write ""IberoAmerica often includes Spain and Portugal.")
I thin someone should remove "offtenly" because... I was gonna say that there are only Portugal and Spain there, but now I saw the word America. What the hell is IbeeroAmerica? I only know the Península Ibérica.
"Most usually it only refers to the nations" I find that awkward to read. What about "Usually it refers specifically to the nations"... ? -- ll
Also, what about mentioning Hispanoamericana, or should that occur only in the Spanish version ? -- ll
it would be a good idea to exclude the non-latin countries of the list...
A mention or a link to "latin Europe" page would be necessary.
" There are, however, many people in Latin America who do not speak Latin-derived languages, either speaking languages indigenous to the region, or other European languages such as English or Dutch. "
No this is false! The countries of English or Dutch language Canno't part of LATIN-America !!! but of Germanic-America or Anglo-America in the case of english-Speaking countries.
Anglo-america : - USA - Canada (mainly) - Jamaica - Belize - Guyana - Bahamas - Virgin islands - other english-speaking west indies
Germanic-America : - anglo-america + - Dutch America (Surinam + dutch west indies)
Why retaining "Latino" is an irony? Somebody care to explain?
if the canadians start saying they are latin americans they will join the "family". I'm Mexican and personally I don't have anything against frenchs neither against "americans".
No I think that Canada is just not counted in "latin america" for the simple reason that Canada is not a latin country but a country with a majoritary anglo-saxon (english-derived) culture. Only the Province of Québec has a majoritary latin culture in Canada. But since Québec is not an independant state it cannot be counted appart than the rest of Canada.
Eh, actually, there are millions of French-descended Mexicans epicentered around Jalisco. Um, Sabine Moussier, anyone? Famous telenovela star?
I think the irony is the fact that 'latin america' has as much as a potato has to do with rocket science as they do to the word 'latin'. Latin is Italian in origin. Spanish is more arabic / basque influenced than Italian. The only influence of the Latin language on Spanish was vulgar latin anyhow, so the entire concept of 'latin america' is utterly moot and illustrative of a hideous detachment of reality and a failure of cognitive understanding of history. 202.173.202.189 13:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm from a latin european country,
It is sad to see how so much american people make wrong use of words...
"latin" is a cultural reference to language and culture coming from a latin-language speaking country... that is to say from spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian and French. French is as much a latin language as spanish !
So "latin america" means countries where official language and culture is coming from spanish, portuguese or french. Excluying french speaking countries of america is a non-sence. If Quebec would be a independent country it should be considered as much as a latin american country than argentina, and even maybe more than mexico, guatemala or peru, whose countries are almost as much native indian than latin...
In the same time I saw so much of US websites considering Jamaica, Belize, Guyana or Surinam as "latin" !!!... Those countries are ENGLISH and DUTCH speaking !! In this cas why not include USA in latin america !!!!!! (I'm kidding!)
I'm sometimes asking myself if some american people know the signification of the words they use !!
Can any american people can explain to me why they don't consider french speaking countries of america as "latin" ?
In europe it is something that we have difficulties to understand...
Is it because in north america the anglosaxon people gave a negative meaning to the word "latin". Especially about poverty and underdevelopment ?
In this cas if in ten or twenty years, if some latin american countries become as developped as north american countries, will they be not considered as "latin" anymore ?...
Is it the reason why Quebecers are not considered as latin americans...Quebec is a developped and rich latin country and is in america, so why not is not considered latin-american by the people in USA ??!
Because it is a Canadian province belonging to the commonwealth country of Canada. Canada has two major languages, French and English. Since it is mostly English speaking it cannot be considered a latin country. Unless you want to call Quebec a latin province. I live in Canada and when I hear someone say latin America I think South America immediately. I do not think of Haiti or any other French speaking nation, however. Perhaps thats due to ignorance. I associated latin with Spanish and Portugese speaking all my life.
=> Strangely enough: 1) There are French, English and Dutch speaking countries/regions in South America 2) Portuguese descendants in South American don't consider themselves any more "Latin" than French and Italian descendants in North America. So what is the difference? I would say it is lack of imformation on South America.
M.S.
....In Response...
I will be your American explaining to you why anyone, not just us, does not all the countries of Central and South America, 'Latin America.'
You say how sad it is to see how American's make wrong use of words, well I find it sad that you would go ahead and criticize American's when you yourself do not know the origination for the term 'Latin America'. Yes it is true that French is derived from the Latin language, but it is also the French that deemed the Central and Southern American Countries as 'Latin America'. So it was not the Americans who coined this term, it was the French themselves. I therefore do not believe that they were as upset about the term as you seem to be. It will always be Latin America, not just when they are no longer in a state of poverty, but because the French were so influential in the 1850s.
Clearly Americans are not using this term of 'Latin America' incorrectly and neither is anyone else for that matter. I found it most interesting how quick you were to assume that the Americans of the United States were the ones who classified Central and South America as Latin America when it was your own ancestors in the 19th century. So before you start pointing fingers at other countries for their ignorance, perhaps you should check on your own. So all in the while of trying to make a fool of The United States, you have only embarrassed yourselves. And by the way, Americans is a term that is used to categorize everyone in North and South Americas. You can find more about this in John Charles Chasteen in his book 'Born in Blood and Fire' a Concise History of Latin America on page 156.
reply to above:
I´ll be your american (not as united statesian) telling you to read the text above again. You only go on and on about how the french created the expression. Who created it isn't important, what matters here is that it's being used incorrectly.
You then states that no one is using the term incorrectly but fails to explain why.
The term "latin america" is being used incorrectly, read all texts on this talk to find out why.
The article says that Latin Americ acovers South America, but the latter counts three more island states. Please clarify. Mikkalai 17:06, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I know the origin of the expression "latin america", I know that it was created during Napoleon III at the time of the intervention in Mexico, with the purpose of including in a same concept the former colonies of Spain, Portugal and France : It was a political strategy. But at this time, the origin of this concept the french speaking countries of america were included in it...
I never said that the people of USA invented the word "latin america" !!! I agree with that fact to include portuguese and spanish speaking countries of america under the label "latin-america", but I'm just asking why nowadays In the mind of the people of USA the francophones americans are excluded of this concept... I still don't have my answer...
Ps: I know that "american" means all the people who live in america (north and south), but your country is the only country without name... in spanish we can say "estadounidenses", in french you can say "états-uniens"... I'm not sure to be understood I say "united-statians"... even in this case it is not a precise name because there is also "the united states of mexico" (the true name of mexico)
"This mixture of cultures and keeping of certain traditions and doing away with others has made Latin America the unique, yet very influenced culture that it has today. Culture mixes are not only about the languages and religions, but also about the dance and music of Latin America as well. A Latino is a person of Latin American heritage, or from a Latin American culture."
I'm a Brazilian and a South American. Although one has to admit that Latin American countries share some traits, the idea of a Latin American culture seems a gross simplification, drenched in stereotypes and misconceptions about the region. This idea can be dangerous in the sense that it might foster discrimination and downplay ethnic issues in Latin America.
Here are my thoughts on the subject:
ON LATINO, HISPANIC AND BRAZIL
According to American laws and most Brazilians? self-perception people who come from the Portuguese former colonies are neither "latino" or "hispanic". Although they might be consider themselves as "Latin" if they are talking solely about the place they come from.
This is because Brazil ? as well as many South American countries ? has been a main immigration area just like the US. Brazil has German, Angolan, Arab, Jewish and Japanese descendants - to quote a few. These people don?t identify with the term ?latino? as it is used in the US. They do identify as a single nation (Brazil) but not as a single ethnic/cultural group. The idea that a relatively more intense miscegenation has given South America, and particularly Brazil, a homogenous and easily identifiable ethnic/cultural background has been contested by many authors. Miscigenation has varied greatly according to area and ethnic group, and they rarely resulted in a common ethnic/cultural background, since we are talking about many immigration waves, coming from every corner of the world over the centuries.
To quote Alan P Marcus: ?The Portuguese language spoken in Brazil, Brazilian ethnicity, and Brazilian culture are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" (These three words are defined as synonyms by the US census). The Jeitinho Brasileiro ("The Brazilian way"), the Jogo Bonito ("The Beautiful Game", a Brazilian reference to Brazilian-style soccer) and Samba (Unique Brazilian Samba music), are not interchangeable with "Spanish/Hispanic/Latino". In addition, the Brazilian raison d'être is devoid of any relationship within the "Hispanic-Latino" paradigms.
In a sense, "Hispanic" and "Latino" have inaccurately "racialized" all Latin Americans, and have thus "latinamericanized" all of Latin America monolithically and homogenously.
The implication is that there is an illusory "Hispanic" or "Latino" "race" or that there is a single imaginary country where "Hispanics" and "Latinos" come from, and of course, neither is true. ?
THE DISCOURSE OF HOMOGENOUS CULTURAL BACKGROUND AS A FORM OF ETHNIC EXCLUSION IN BRAZIL
The idea of an homogenous ethnic/cultural Latin background has been used to deny ethnic struggles in South America and allianate ethnic minorities from power (particularly African and Native descendants). Gilberto Freire's idea of "Racial Democracy" in Brazil, which overstresses white/native/African miscigenation, has been extremely criticised for its conservative and anti-democratic content. It downplays the fact that white European descendants still rule the country and have far more access to schools, jobs and wealth.
BRAZILIANS IN THE US
The terms ?latino? and ?latin? are not interchangeable. Latin refers to French, Portuguese, Spanish, Romanian and Italian speakers . ?Latino?, as used by the US law, is an inaccurate, simplistic and stereotypical term to describe the diverse emigrants from Spanish America. Sometimes these terms are also wrongly applied to Brazilian emigrants by the American media.
When Brazilians refer to themselves as South Americans or Latin Americans, they don?t mean to describe their ethnic or cultural background, since there are Italian Brazilians, Angolan Brazilians, German Brazilians, Japanese Brazilians, Portuguese Brazilians, Spanish Brazilians and so on. Ethnic and cultural background will vary according to each individual. When Brazilians refer to themselves as South or Latin Americans they mean only the place they come from.
However, in the US, the terms Latin American and South American seem to have acquired a cultural/ethnic meaning, which most Brazilians find very disturbing, since that represents a denial of their specific cultural backgrounds and the identities they learned to have as point of reference.
To call Brazilians ?Latinos? is very comparable to state that every American -Anglo saxon American, African American, Asian American, etc - is an ?Asian?. It downplays social and ethnic struggles over the centuries of colonization and make ethnic "minorities" such as African and Native descendants invisible and powerless.
"latino" is a word that only reffers to the cultures with the native indian origins !!!!
Only the people with native indian origins can be said "latino". That the reason why argentinians are not latins. Us, the people of Guatemala we are the true latinos (like Peruvians, Bolivians, Ecutorians, Mexicans...) because we have a few european blood. I think we should exclude definitivly the people of argentina, Brazil or uruguay from the term "latin-america" because thay have nothing in common with our indian(latino) culture. We should stop to speak spanish and stop being catholics because it is a european language and a european religion, AND NOT LATINO ONES !! But I think we should include in "latin-america" all the native indian reservations of USA and Canada were are living our latin brothers !
I don't know why some Europeans that are not latinos at all want to be condidered as native indians like we are !!! Please leave that label for the true latinos... The fact that people of spain and portugal colonized our latin countries doesn't make latinos of themselves !! Those countries colonized some countries of Africa but nobody say that Spain and Portugal are African... They stole our gold, but they won't stole our name !!! -- 172.210.87.127
ur a little bit stupid ain't u? latino is derived from latium a region in italy, from where the romans came from, and in that region they speak latin. when the roman empire spread across europe the influentiate the language spoken there that's why portuguese castillan, catalan, galician, french, romanian and italian are the latin(pure ones, specially italians) european countries. when spain and portugal colonised america they influentiate, and mixed (in some cases others not, and in different scales, for instance argentina and uruguay have the majority of the population white(arg-95% uruguay-85%) with the natives. and these new societies have a lot of latin or iberian influence speaking spanish or portuguese so they are latin americans, and if ur saying that 2 be latinos u must stop speaking spanish or being catholic, u'll not be a latino u would be aztec or mayan or so on, because the true latins r europeans.
and i can't underdtand how the americans( ppl from united states, america is a continent, not a country) don't consider ( in some cases) portuguese and spaniards white saying they r hispanic. well, i thought hispanic was created to separate the ppl with mixed blood(amerindian and spaniard) from white. the ppl from us is more mixed than me for sure, cause they have a lot of indian and black mixing(not all of course but more than potuguese with moors or blacks for sure). when i'm in german or sweden, they won't say that i'm non-white or that i'm hispanic, they'll say im white(i'm portuguese) because ~i have a light skin but my eyes and hair is dark, so the usa ppl is really stupid and instead of trying to unite pll they kept ppl apart by dividing ppl by race.
besides, aren't there fully indigenous Argentines...and Guatemalans of European descent?
Why isn't the contents list at the top of the page, instead of in the middle. This is driving me crazy. I would fix it my self if i knew how. February 2005
Wow, this is the most asinine claim I have ever seen. Yeah, you should definitely stop using your LATIN LANGUAGE, you Latino, you. What a retard.
Veo que muchos de ustedes son de habla hispana, la persona que dice de los Guatemaltecos déjame decirte que ignorante que eres. Yo siendo sur americano (hijo de italianos) me siento muy ofendido de cómo se utiliza La palabra o el término latino en los estados unidos de norte América Que país es denominado latino no me interesa pero si se porque. Otra cosa que me ofende mucho es cuando los cubanos, puerto riqueños La gente de Miami y otros países de centro América y el caribe se denominan latinos siendo negros O indígenas, por que me ofende, primero ofenden a los latinos y segundo Deniegan su propia raza o descendencia. Si hablar español escuchar salsa y comer frijoles les hace sentir que son latinos Sigan creyendo eso. Pero ser latino es mucho más que eso. Si tengo que decir quien es mas latino que quien o que país es mas latino. Diría sur América y norte América usa. Por que, Sur América y u.s.a tienen la mayoría mas grande de latinos europeos A pesar de que latino América fue colonizada por hispanos (españoles) Otra cosa que me cae muy mal es cuando me llaman hispano, porque hablo español no soy hispano / soy ítaloamericano o ítalo argentino. Los estados unidos de América están muy acostumbrados en poner sobrenombres y alimentar la ignorancia de los que nacen en este país u.s.a Esto es un tema muy largo pero solo entramos en este tema cuando entramos a los estados unidos de América.
As a Guatemalan of pure European descent, I found the first entry ignorant and offensive. Latinos are any one who comes from a latino American country whether Mexico, Guatemala or even Argentina. Ladinos are the the latinos with indigenous and spanish blood. And also, dragging the name of Guatemala through the dirt like you did is idiotic and very unpatriotic. There are Guatemalans WHO ARE WHITE for example, in Chimaltenango, where the majority of citizen are blond hair and green eyed.
We are just as latino as you are but possibly not "Ladino" as you most likely are. P.S. There are no pure natives left in Guatemala cause for years they have breeded in between themselves mixing spanish blood and other types of European descent.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.76.205 ( talk • contribs)
First, I consider the term Latin-America has incorrect. And the use of the word "Latino" has gross!
My experience: I worked at the same office (not very big) with latin heritage ppl, and we were all Portuguese, Spanish, Argentinians and Brazilians. Truthfully, our cultures are really very similar and so I understand the British and American point of view. There's no civilizational chock, no cultural chock, our social behaviour is very similar and conversations went very easily (often choose one language to speak (Port. or Spanish), there were 3-4 native languages - if you consider galician has one: Spanish, Catalan, Galician and Portuguese). What doesnt happen when a German or a British comes around, that are culturally completly different, but in the "Latin" point of view Germans and British have similar cultures.
I think the term Latin American is not fully correct. For me, really Latin cultures are in Portugal, Spain and Italy, and in not has big extent in France/ Belgium and Romania. Greece (has many cultural similarities with latins). If you consider the Latin American countries has an all, with all its population, its not Latin (even if there are many people that are real Latinos). I find upsetting that Anglo-saxon people consider Latino has a mixed blood. Not that I dislike mix blooded people, in fact, by the contrary! But you cant name something with a name that has nothing to do with it. Latin is a culture that started in the centre of Italy and spread to some European countries in a cultural influence that toke centuries that even today pagan festivities and culture persist. My mother went it thounders uses to say "god is furious!" "Deus está furioso". She doesnt know but the Deus (dios) is not the Christian god, but Jupiter (aka Zeus or Dios or deus). Obviously, Latin culture is much more than this. BTW, I'm Portuguese.
A better term is Ibero-American (due to language and History and partially culture). I think Latin American is just a missconception. The Latins (aka Romans) didnt rule over the Americas... but over Europe and due to imigration/influence their culture prevailed in Iberia, French Riviera and Italy - Places of the Empire that were similar in weather to their original Place (central Italy). Portuguese and Spanish settlers in the Americas, they toke with them their particular Latin culture (Portuguese and Spanish), but they mixed it with African and Amerindian cultures. You register your Children (forgive me the term) after your name and not over your father's! While Latin culture completly overtook the real Latin countries (can easily be seen by the similar cultures of Portugal and Spain even thought both are seperated a thousand yrs), the Portuguese and Spanish culture overtook in some places in the Americas (it really did), but most South Americans have also a mixed culture, very far from the Latin one. Terms like "Latin American" has to be erased and wikipedia is not helping much, it is even spreading the missconception. - Pedro 02:22, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
People come to the Wikpedia for information on the topic, not to see a mismanaged mess created by political correctness. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE TERM 'LATIN AMERICA' DERIVES FROM THE LATIN BASED LANGUAGES SPOKEN BY THE MAJORITY OF LATIN AMERICA'S INHABITANTS. THE TERM HAS COME TO DESCRIBE ALL LAND IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE SOUTH OF THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S WHAT LATIN AMERICA IS, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IF THE TERM HAS DRIFTED FROM ITS ORIGINAL MEANING. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TODAY. LET'S FOCUS ON GETTING PEOPLE THE MOST ACCURATE, UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON LATIN AMERICA, WITHOUT ENGAGING IN SILLY DEBATES ABOUT SEMANTICS!!!
THIS IS REDICULOUS!!!!!
REDICULOUS!!!!!
THIS ARTICLE IS HORRIBLE, AND ALL OF YOU ARE MAKING IT SO!!!
SO WHAT IF THE TERM IS A MISNOMER???
AMERICOS VESPUCIE DIDN'T DISCOVER AMERICA EITHER????
SHOULDN'T IT BE THE "UNITED STATES OF COLUMBIA"??
AND AMERICOS WAS ITALIAN!!!!
NOT ALL AMERICANS ARE ITALIAN!!!!
THERFORE THE TERM "AMERICA" IS CULURALLY INSENSITIVE.
REDUICULOUS.
ABSURD.
ABSURD.
ALL OF YOU
ABSURD.
I'M GOING TO FIND INFOMATION ON LATIN AMERICA.
Y'ALL CAN STILL GO WHINE ABOUT HOW ROMANIA SHOULD BE INCLUDED!!!
My dear friend, you seem to have no idea of what it means to be latin. This discussion is not about political corectness but about the meaning that the words have outside of the american slangs. "latin" is an expression that had always had its own meaning and that doens't mean "latin-american" - but refers to the culture of the south-west european countries plus Romania and the countries that had a strong influence of them. This is not a question of etymology, but that is the real meaning of this word as it has always been used in Europe (and still be used now!). In Europe more than 200 millions people are refered as latin people and are proud of this identity!!. That the popular use of this word had changed recently (since 20 years not more) in the USA to refer ONLY to south/central americans is a wrong use, I'm sorry! And the role of an encyclopedia (especially an international one!) is not to spread to the world (since english is now a sort of lingua franca) the misconceptions that were born from a Typical US devied use of this word. Us, latin-Europeans we feel quite bad to be excluded from own own designation just because the American use of it have arbitrary decided to applied it to another group only. Excuse me for my bad english.
As an American born of Puerto Rican parents of European ancestry I couldn't agree more
Im sorry but to say that Romania should be included in latin american is not going to pass. Let us first examine what continent's comprise american, and then determine if Romania is on one of those continents. Rekov
Welcome to the Caribbean, Love! Some consider the term to include the Caribbean as well is just plain wrong. Is Madagascar part of Africa? Japan part of Asia? England part of Europe? Then the Caribbean is part of America, simple as that. And since it has undergone Spanish colonization, it is part of Latin America. Mind you that even Dutch or French colonized countries are, as of now, part of Latin America, due to the miscigenation in which none of these countries have a majority of unmixed ("pure") european blood. Besides that, the term Latin America is not supposed to mean just a group of people; it should also contain the proposition to include speakers of launguages that have its root on Latin. Surely, Spanish and Portuguese speakers make the most numerous group, but lets not forget Italy, France, Rumania, etc. LtDoc 22:06, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Indeed. LtDoc 16:56, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
There is no need to group all the caribean region in one unique category. caribean regions can show a wide panel of cultures. the main cultural (and "racial") common point of this region is the African influence. all these countries have recieved very important african populations in various proportions, that had left it mark on the people and its culture (salsa, merengue, reggae, ska, zouk, bachatta, etc... all these musics and danses are mostly based on african rythms (and not latin ones like the expression "latin music", wrongly applied to caribean music" can lt people think. Salsa has very few latin things in it, a lot of people wouldn't want to recognise it but these rythms are not latin but african)
In fact, the latin cultural influence (Spanish, french)is important in some countries (cuba, haiti, rep dom, guadeloupe, martinique, puerto rico), but completly absent of some other (jamaica, virgin islands, dutch islands, etc.) - what unify the caribean is the african influence, not the latin one. So there is absolutly no reason to include all the caribean in the concept of "latin america" but only the countries of this region that derive (even if it is partly) their culture (especially the language in this case) from the latin european countries.
Where did you read that I said that south America has no African influence ?? The subject was the carobean, I said that the caribean has African influences. That's doesn't mean that south America don't have too !
" UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON LATIN AMERICA, WITHOUT ENGAGING IN SILLY DEBATES ABOUT SEMANTICS " To up to date informations about somthing you have to know what about you are talking. that why semantics is important in every discussion because it is what defines a concept. Once the concept is clearly defined we can speak about it... and defining concepts is the role of an encyclopedia, not bringing the false stereotypes of the popular collective imaginary.
I have a number of points to make on this score:
I am going to delete all references to Québec in this article. As a Canadian, I can tell you what utter bosh it is to call any part of our country Latin American. Others may reinstate them if they wish, but to do so would be to put in this article something that most Canadians, including most Québécois, would find laughable. Kelisi 17:28, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
The racial diversity and intermingling that exits in Brazil is something not common around the world, and there is a wide spectrum of specific skin colours between white and black. Citizens from the US, for example, would consider a mullato, a mestizo, a mameluco, a cafuzo and a deep tanned white person to be all blacks, and that is not accurate, not by a long shot. As I said before, if you look in specific regions of Brazil, you will find greater concentrations of a specific human race. That holds true to blacks, but also whites, mullatos, mestizos, etc.
alot of u ppl need to start realizing and accepting that mexico is not or no longer an indian country alot of light skiined mexicans say that the spaniards took their culuture which is absolulty stupid u probly are from spanish descent duh, ok look mexico has 106 million ppl thats more than anyother country except brazil in latin america, so with that said their is more diversity in mexico than alot of other latin american countries. everyone assumes that just becuz ur mexican ur indian..lets get facts straight here i bet u you all dint kno that in puebla there is a italian population that speak a dialect of the language venetian and in i think chiuahaha ther is dutch and german settlers who speek this language similar to dutch and in the state of zacatecas theirs alot of spaniards, englishmen,irish and so on..so if u refer to latinos as indians then southern mexico cood count considering that southern mexico has the majority of indians but as a whole mexico is mixed so stop confusing us for indians... also id like to point out that u dont have to be white looking to be of european descent look at spain there are more tan skined meditrean ppl than anything else and also remeber to the spaniards in mexico that we have moor ancestry wich cood also explain ur tan skin, dont think that just becuz ur tannd that ur indian thats just my opnion. so yea u shood think of peru as indian the majority off ppl their are indian and so on..
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I have a number of points to make on this score:
I am going to delete all references to Québec in this article. As a Canadian, I can tell you what utter bosh it is to call any part of our country Latin American. Others may reinstate them if they wish, but to do so would be to put in this article something that most Canadians, including most Québécois, would find laughable. Kelisi 17:28, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
The best definition for Latin America is parts of the Americas explored by Columbus that were founded for the southern European countries where Romance Languages are spoken since French-speaking areas aren't generally included with Latin America. Italian, however, is spoken throughout Latin America by a small minority predominately in Argentina and their influence in cuisine is also very notable. I don't get why Italians, Spaniards, and Portuguese aren't labeled as Latins in Latin American countries and why Columbus Day celebrations are strongly discouraged by the likes of Hugo Chávez and its not fair that they aren't allowed to speak Latin. - Cantor
Why do those from the U.S. have to put their ethnic and racial concepts on Latin America. Why not try and assume that there are more nuances in the demographic descriptions of groups. For example, the term Black is quite vague, but mostly because people will not recognize someone of mixed race background as Black, because Black means dark skinned. The U.S. concept of race in this instant does not work for Latin America. Chriscarlos
Isnt the expression "cono sur" misspelled? I believe the spanish equivalent would be "cone sur" since cono in spanish means... well, its a bad word for somethig nice! :) LtDoc 16:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
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I made a few changes to the "Demographics" section today. First, I added southern Brazil to the list of regions with majoritarily European populations (alongside Argentina and Uruguay). Second, I clarified that large mulatto populations are found throughout southeastern and northeastern Brazil. I understand that it might be controversial to refer to subnational units in the article, but, in the case of Brazil, regional diversity justifies that different sections of the country be described separately as far as demographics and culture are concerned. I also edited the "Language" section to clarify that Portuguese is both an official and a national language in Brazil. The term "official language", when used in isolation, might suggest a situation similar to one that exists in several African countries where there is an official (usually European) language used by the government and for instruction at schools, and several local native languages that are spoken most often at home. In Brazil, of course, that is not the case, as nearly all families speak Portuguese at home (even though there may be significant differences between the standard language and the popular vernacular). Mbruno 16:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Cut from the intro:
I think we can all agree that people who describe themselves in their language as Latino are the primary residents of " Latin America".
I see the divide in two ways: geographical and cultural:
Okay? Entiende? D'accord? Uncle Ed 20:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Where is the cultural split between latin-America and north-America ?
Where is Québec then ? In north America (geographically and socio-politically) and linguistically and culturally in latin-America... I think that it has no meaning to oppose latin-America with North-America (most of Mexico is in North America too). We can only oppose Latin-America with Anglo-America.
Are the French-speaking islands of the Carribean generally considered part of Latin America?
Parts of the Americas which currently speak French or were former French colonies, constitute part of Latin America. To suggest that the French somehow fall out side of the Latin category is absurd, certainly there are some major differences between Franco-American colonies/nations and Iberian-American colonies/nations they still remain Latin in a cultural-linguistic context. Also keep in mind that for the last hundred years of the Spanish Empire (roughly the 18th century) the kings of Spain were from the French Bourbon family!! Ultimately, to choose to separate the French from Latin Aemrica is absurd and completely ahistorical and acultural.
" Certainly there are some major differences between Franco-American colonies/nations and Iberian-American colonies/nations they still remain Latin in a cultural-linguistic context. "
I agree with that there are differences, but we have too notice that the same kind of major differences are existing inside Iberian-american ex-colonies too : differences between Bolivia and Républica Dominicana are bigger than between Quebec and Argentina.
Anywhere that French is the official language and widely spoken in the new world should be included in the category: Latin America.
Anyone who has been to Brazil (Portuguese), Mexico (Spanish) and Quebec (French) and understands the meaning of the words: 'Latin' and 'America' will agree, Quebec is very 'Latin', culturally and linguistically and it is in the Americas.
Hm.. the more I click my way around on these pages, the more I come to realize that perspectives and understandnings on all these exotic regions and continents vary and are highly subjective and even biased. Perhaps the English usage is much more inconsistent, unprecise and overlapping than the native-speakers' usage. If so, this is similar to other vaguely-defined regions that are found in the minds of distant groups of people and mean different things to them. See also Talk:Siberia, Talk:Scandinavia, Talk:Middle East and Talk:Balkans, and also exonym versus autonym for similar discussions of namings and meanings. // Big Adamsky 18:05, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
As a historian I feel that Latin America refers to those parts of the Americas which were conquered and colonized by Europeans speaking Latin-based languages. This would include all areas and nation-states of the Americas which were previously Spanish, Portuguese, and French colonies. The distinction between Latin America and the rest of the Americas is not necessarily a North/South distinction although it certainly becomes one in popular conceptions of the Americas. The main distinction between Latin America and the rest of the Americas has to do with the imposition of European culture (including traditions of law, government, social institutions, relgion, etc.) and language. Spain, Portugal, and France all cultural traditions which were more similar to eachother than to English or Dutch traditions. For example, in terms of law all three of these imperial powers followed the codified Roman tradition where as the English followed a common law tradition. To reiterate, the use of "Latin" in "Latin American" highlights a general cultural-linguistic background imparted to the colonies of Spain, Portugal and France.
Is this term biased? Yes. Does this term overlook the important differences in the cultures of the Americas caused by indigenous cultural groups or African cultures? Yes. Is this term horribly flawed and in need of replacement? No
While certainly the term Latin America overlooks the presence and influence of Native American and African cultures on European colonies and later American nation-states, this term does serve a function in describing a large part of the Americas and making a distinction between regions conquered and colonized by "different" traditions of European culture. On the one hand, in this sense Latin America is euro-centric and devalues the history and culture of the Americas prior to 1492. Yet, this term has become so standard that it will be very hard to abandon it or replace it. On the other hand, the conquest and colonization of the Americas did affect every indigenous culture in this hemisphere. While many Native American cultures exist and flurish today, they cannot be seen as perfect recreations of a pre-European tradition. Every culture in the Americas changed as a result of Europeans. Some changed more than others and a different rates, but all indigenous cultures saw some changes. In this sense, the term Latin America can encompass the changes that European colonization brought to native cultures and the way in which modern cultures in Latin America have grown out of indigenous, European, and, in most places, African cultural traditions.
Although I am not a historian, I support your input on the definition of Latin America. Rather than searching for the exact meaning of the word "latin", and its correspondence to the phenomenon it is meant to describe, the notion of "Latin America" should be considered from the perspective of its use in History, Geography, Geopolitics etc. These are not natural sciences. Expressions are thus frequently perverted or imprecise (from a linguistic point of view). So is the case of the appropriation of the term "latin" to describe a region that includes also non-latin cultures and languages whithin the borders of nation-states (indigenous people, for example). But the colonization criteria should not be considered the only one to determine the boundaries between Latin America and non-Latin America.
I think the current use of the term Latin America clearly excludes certain latin-colonized regions within the borders of other american States (the Québec case). In international affairs and diplomacy, the term might encompass some countries such as Belize, Suriname or Guyana. These are sovereign States that share with Ibero-American States not only the lands usually refered to as Latin America (geographic criteria), but also the developing-country aspect of the region (economic/political criteria). The opposition between developed and developing countries is, I tend to believe, one that should not be downplayed when defining Latin America. (it further explains why québecois do not consider themselves Latin Americans). By the same token, even though French Guyana, Guadaloupe and Martinique (departments of France) could be considered as part of Latin America geographically and culturally, they are not independent-developing States, a reason for possibly excluding them from the Latin America scope (technically they are part of the European Union). Haiti, a former French colony independent and underdeveloped, is usually considered as part of Latin America.
On the other hand, take the case of Puerto Rico. It is a US territory, economically developed and politically dependent. And yet nobody will doubt that Puerto Rico is part of Latin America, in a certain sense at least. In the Puerto Rico case, culture and language seem to be the most determinant criteria. In the Québec case, quite the contrary.
The bottom line is that there is no exact formula to determine which countries or territories are part of Latin America and which are not. Geography, History, Politics, Economics, Culture, Language are elements to take into consideration. And these elements may apply differently for each case. Savvy words such as "usually" and "often" are very welcomed in the article. --- Adelius
One of the most comprehensive history collections about Latin America (Bethell, Leslie. "The Cambridge History of Latin America". Cambridge University Press - ten volumes published between 1984 and 1985; I have some volumes of the Brazilian Translation - "História da América Latina. São paulo: EdUSP, 2002) adopts the following criteria for determining the scope of "Latin America": (i) continental America south of the US in which Portuguese and Spanish languages are predominately spoken; (ii) the Spanish-speaking Caribbean islands; and (iii) Haiti ("by convention"). It expressly excludes (i) North American territories conquered by Spain and currently part of US; (ii) British, Dutch and French islands of the Caribbean; and (iii) the Guyanas (Guyana, Suriname and French Guyana). The preface of the collection treats this definition as an "assumption". Another interesting case is the so-called Latin America Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone, instituted by the Treaty for the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons in Latin America (Treaty of Tlatelolco), of 1967 (please see
http://www.opanal.org/). In spite of the somewhat restricted term "Latin America", several British, Dutch and French ex-colonies or dependancies, in the Caribbean and in continental America, were parties to the treaty. In 1990, by resolution, it was decided by the States parties to the treaty, in recognition of "the fact that the adhesion of various Caribbean States to the Treaty of Tlatelolco reflects the growing plurality of the Agency for the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons in Latin America", that the expression "and the Caribbean" should be added. It seems that, in that context, Caribbean Anglo and Dutch ex-colonies and dependencies are (or feel they are) less Latin American than continental Anglo and Dutch ex-colonies (ex vi Guyana and Suriname). Again, both cases show there is no perfect distinction between Latin America and non-Latin America. -- Adelius adelius 20:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC
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The problem is that none of the different definitions of "Latin America" proposed on this talk page seem to be consistent with the article. If the criteria to define "Latin America" are language (derived from Latin), religion (Roman Catholicism) and law (civil law as opposed to common law tradition), then majoritarily French-speaking Québec should be included in Latin America, together with other Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries. If on the other hand the criterion is a racial one, then not only Québec, but also majoritarily-white Argentina or Uruguay should be excluded. The economic test as suggested by E Pluribus Anthony seems to be valid and is consistent with the map shown in the article. However, if economic criteria are used, then I suggest we change the title from "Latin America" to "Low-Income Countries in the Americas" as opposed to "high-income countries in the Americas" (i.e. the US an d Canada). Personally, I think the article should be simply deleted or perhaps broken down into 3 separate categories (respectively Spanish America, Portuguese America and French America). Mbruno 12:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
but rather a band whichs plays traditional music from Western Mexico. The music style Mariachi bands play and that is known all over the world is called "ranchera" music...
Not absolutely true.
Please try to improve it with more data.
From all of this discussion I think it is important to acknowledge that the term "Latin America" does not one meaning which everyone agrees on. That alone teaches us something about the term itself. Some view it as a useful term, but the list of countries which ought to fall under its umbrella is somewhat subjective.
It seems that the problem arises from trying to find too many similarities in a large and varied region.
If we look at is as a linguist term it ought to include places such as Quebec and Haiti and not places such as Aruba, the Bahamas, or Suriname. To reverse this is to put the linguistic definition in jeopardy in favor of one of two more common usages of the word- the economic one. "Latin America" has, in many circles, particularly business and political ones- to describe the so called developing countries of most of the western hemisphere. This definition also has its flaws, as it tries to group multiple countries with various economic aspects under one common banner. Cuba, Peru, Haiti, and Brazil are very different economically, but they are all considered "Latin American" countries.
The other popular usage of the term is the cultural aspect, one which tries to suggest some sort of singular identity from Juarez all the way down to the southern tip of Argentina. This latter usage is of benefit primariy to those who produce and market cultural products- such as music, hoping that regardless of what "Latin America" is or isn't, if everyone in "Latin America" would buy their products- that is just fine with them. Those who produce the "Latin Grammies" fall among this category. Could someone who spoke Papiamento win such an award? How about someone who had lived their entire life in the United States?
The people who live in the countries under consideration generally don't find it useful. They identify very little with those of neighboring countries. They play football together, and haggle over oil, and mountains, and sea access, and they tend to enjoy rice and perhaps beans. They may speak similar languages, or not, but they don't want to be called by a blanket term which tears them from the uniqueness of their own nation. Most of them only use the term after they come to the United States. A Brazilian is very proud of their land and people, and rightfully so, so there is no reason to group them with others who have equal reason to be proud of their accomplishments.
There is an element in the United States that encourages division along some sort of illusory ethnic lines by promoting "latin americanism" in the United States, and preaching that they must band together to resist those that would do them harm. They preach this because they profit from it, and it gives them power. It is by these individuals more than anybody else that the term "latin america" is used and promoted in the social circles, the business circles, and perhaps above all else, in the education circles, creating division where there need not be any and preaching some sort of unity which is not present and never has been.
Read this to see exactly the reasons why. white_people
This page is still listed on the
list of featured articles Wikipedia should have as an article needing cleanup. The {{cleanup-date|May 2005}} tag was removed without explanation by the anonymous IP
User:86.131.132.163 at 02:10, 27 November 2005. The article
has come a long way since it was tagged with the original Cleanup request, but since this is said to be an essential topic (with the corresponding high standard of quality), and the requested Film section still isn't there, I think this article should still be tagged with a Cleanup template. I'm adding {{cleanup-priority}}.
--
Mr. Billion
06:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
The item "Arts" of Latin America should be more representative of each country. I doubt that most of the artist of the "continent" are from Ecuador and none from argentina or other counties
There is two maps, you can talk about them and they can be improve. Talk to improve this article, not for your own opinion. Yug
The article ought to use the map without Belize, Suriname and Guyana as those countries are not part of Latin America. Thanks for making that change. I was thinking of doing it myself, but you beat me to it :) NoIdeaNick 14:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, now that i've found this
I think it is probably a better choice. It's much easier to see which countries are and are not included. NoIdeaNick 14:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Edit: arrgg forgot siggy and Wikipedia wouldn't let me add it. Here.-- Quintucket 07:12, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand your problems to include Haiti or French guyana in latin America. I heard some of you pointing that they would share more with English speaking nation such as Jamaica and Belize. Haiti and Guyana are lands are situated in America, speak a latin language and are with a huge catholic majority... while Belize or Jamaica speak a germanic language and are mainly of protestant traditions. the comparision with Jamaica and Belize has nothing to do with the latin/germanic thing, but with the fact that all those countries have mainly a population of black people (african origins). It is interesting to point that Dominican republic for exemple have also a population whose genetic origins is found in West Africa while most of you don't have any propblem to include it in the latin American concept. French Guyana and Haiti are much closer to Dom. Rep. than to Jamaica because they share not only racial origins but also linguistic and religious similarities.
So, I oppose to show a ligther green over F. Guyana and Haiti since it has no meaning to do so. if you want to differenciate countries with heavy African population to the latin concept, so you should put Dominicn Republic and Also Cuba in light green. But It would be quite racist to my opinion.
Can the author of that section please give us a link to the sources? I've searched all through the IMF and World Bank's websites, and I could not find GDP per capita figures for 2005, not even with the link provided, which gives us data for 2004. The figures in this article seem to be taken ONLY from the CIA Factbook, which by the way are only "estimates" (since not all countries of the world have finished calculating last year's GDP; in fact, Mexico will announce this week the figure for 2005 and the growth rate, which means that whatever you find about Mexico's GDP for 2005 is only an estimate; remember, CIA does not calculate GDP, each country does that, CIA Factbook gives a report). The author of that section says he "calculated" himself (or so I understand) GDP per capita by taking GDP (from whatever source that I have not been able to corroborate), with the list of countries by population. Why would he have to do that? I mean, the last report of GDP made by the World Bank in 2005 for GDP 2004 gave you both GDP and GDP per capita, as well as GNI and GNI per capita. Why would the World Bank and/or FMI only report GDP so that we would have to make the appropriate calculations ourselves? In summary, could you please provide a link to the World Bank's and IMF reports of GDP 2005? I could use that information for 2005, if it does exists, in many other articles. -- J.Alonso 18:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Also, what does this phrase mean: The Latinamerican G7 is composed of: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru and Venezuela. And between them increase commerce in the region, improving the "smaller" countries that surrond them. First of all, I've never heard of a so-called Latinamerican G7. It might exist though, could you please site your source? (I know that a G-3 exists which is a free trade agreement between Mexico, Colombia and Venezuela). Secondly, what does the second phrase mean, that the increment in trade improves smaller countries? -- J.Alonso 18:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
It is not giving a clear definition. Part of the article claims the Caribbean is in "Latin American" then another part says its not. The former British West Indies are *not* in Latin America nor have they ever been in it. The British West Indies, do not speak Spanish/Portuguese and they are not "Latin American". "Central America" yes, but not in Latin America. "Latin America" is all about countries that relate to the Iberian Peninsula. Which inlcudes Portugual and Brasil which was a part of Portugal. "Latin America" Is all about persons of Latin/Hispanic decents. CaribDigita 02:40, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
The UN doesn't regard them as the same region.
Both Britain [4] , and Canada [5] both break the Caribbean out as a separate individual area. It is only really a trend in the US of calling the British West Indies as "Latin America". The British West Indies (along with Canada) would be the Commonwealth. The French countries also no longer use "Latin" America either they go by Francophonie. CaribDigita 21:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
It seems difficulty to some of you to realise that to be part of latin-America, a country should be in America and beign of latin roots. This is the reason why all the caribean is not included in the concept. A part of the caribean is latin (Cuba, Dom Rep, Haiti), others are not at all (Jamaica, Antigua, Virgin islands, etc.) whose cumture has been influenced by the English one (language, protestantisme), in opposistion with countreis with Spanish, portuguese or French influences. The same way, all south America is not latin America too (Guyana and Surinam have nothing latin in them). Latin america is a CULTURAL concept and not a geographical one even if some people use it wrongly with geographical conotations.
French is also spoken in Argentina and Brazil
I'm positive that titling this article "Latin America" is a little politically incorrect, or at least an example of American dialect, the article should be named properly - it isn't too difficult to write a subheading "otherwise known as Latin America". Also, other pages referring to "Latin America" should be edited accordingly. It would be like having a Wikipedia page titled "Yanks" describing the americans - that's the British term for Americans btw.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/default.stm - You can watch the latest edition of Newsnight online at it's website, as it's a daily show, the latest is only online for 24 hours. This week, is "Latin America" week and will focus on a different aspect of Latin America in each show. Monday's program covers the upcoming elections in Peru, Venezuelan oil and has interviews with many latin america commentators. Keep an eye on these programs, they could help an upcoming AID. - Hahnch e n 15:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I just want to add my opinion on this issue. I have lived half my life in Brazil and can say that I have never seen a Brazilian consider himself latino/hispanic/etc. (which the Boston article mentions, for example) and nobody would ever say that Brazil is part of Latin America. Even outside of Brazil I have never seen this reference.
Of course, I realize that Brazil was originally part of Portugal and the language is Latin-based and all that, so of course I understand the logic, but the way this term is used in the present-day and how all this is considered, I would never say Brazil is Latin America.
I would vote for Brazil being removed. Haiti too, I suppose. The Spanish-speaking countries of the Americas are the only ones I would consider Latin America. -04:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I think this is an interesting point. The term Latin America is so ridiculous, that some are trying to force people who see no point in identifying themselves as such to do so. Most people who are interested in the term use it as a way to group OTHE pR people, primarily for their own benefit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm ( talk • contribs)
I think this section is indeed relevant. As a Brazilian, I can attest that basically Brazilians don't view themselves as Latin Americans but accept (or resign to) the fact that "by definition" others may put them in this box. So I think it's Ok to include Brazil in the overall definition BUT necessarily with the mention, at the top of the page where the US-centric definition is given, that according to most Brazilians, Latin-American corresponds to Spanish-speaking America or rather anything in "LA" but Brazil (again, Hispanic America is as wrong , as Hispania in ancient Rome included Portugal, thus Spanish America should be the right word instead). People seeking proof of this should only see companies with offices for "Latin America & Brazil". In general most Brazilians actually will challenge being called Latin-Americans, except for opinionated, ideological, left-wing beliefs (I would say 20% of the population at best ). Bottom line: while mentioning what LA means to (wrongly) to US (south of the border), it is fair to mention what it means (wrongly also) to Brazilians ("North-West of the border"). Mpbb 21:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I would like to add my tuppence worth - as a Politics Student, I am doing a course entitled "Politics of Latin America" and that includes Brazil. It doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong, but that would be the perspective received from British Universities.
IMO there's a high level of repetitevness in the article, and yet lack of actual content.
Languages spoken in LA has been discussed at three occasions in the article. At least information given in the second paragraph (introduction) of the article is redundant. This information should be moved into apropiate section(s).
The same goes for political definition of the LA. There should be a spearate section that should (try) to clear up what is and what is not LA. And my opinion is that Quebec IS NOT Latin America.
Speaking of politics and relating to history, I think that the article would benefit from more historical content and observation or two on current political situation in the region. It is ridiculous that economy section is lot bigger than history section, and all that because of a single table. I wonder if that table has a place in this article.
On the other hand culture section needs to be expanded and cleand up. List of painters should belong to ... list of painters. Or only notable painters should be mentioned with a sentence or two about their influence and significance. Other painters should be mentioned in their respective country's culture articles. And what about sculptors, modern artists that make instalations ...?
On the other other hand film section, although it bears "please expand" tag is quite good compared to other subsections.
I know it easier to criticize than to do actual work, but I don't have much knowledge about LA, and not too many time on my hands, and this points that I have made should be only taken as suggestions and are open for discussion.--
RockyMM
13:45, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I read this article many times and also I followed the discusions. Here are my comments:
Just for polemize: If we put in a broader definition of Latin America french parts of Canada and Lousiana, what about US? I'm not talking only about historical Spain colonial territories (Florida,Texas, California, etc.) but I'm also considering the fact that US has the 5th largest concentration of spanish speakers. baloo_rch 00:07, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I made some small changes to the etymology section, I feel that there needs to be a consideration to the ACTUAL historic context of the term, rather than just have a section that deals with the gripes and issues that anybody believes are right. I am sure that the hounds will make me pay for these changes (in fact, I know a nasty retort will probably come from my friend Pluribus Anthony, who seems to have a strong opinion about every article related to terminology south of the U.S. border). I will be checking back on comments. And no, I'm not hiding, this is the very first WP article that I edit, so I have no idea how to set an account.-- 71.128.47.121 22:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Do we need the long list of painters? Or does anyone know enough about the subject to trim the section? Maurreen 17:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The language is crude, at least in regards to the European conquest of Latin America. For example, the amount of people killed by small pox ranges wildly, even among the finest historians in the field. For example, there is not nearly enough evidence to justify that only 15% of the former population lived after the European conquest. Birth rates actually went up during colonialism, the sizes of cities grew--not because of European expansion, at least in Mexico and Central America--and archeological evidence points towards a large die off of people a few hundred years before the Europeans came in the 15th and 16th centuries. The European elites merely removed older elites from power. The Aztecs were also very despotic, so let's not try and moralize this thing to fit our 21st century ideologies. I agree that colonialism caused many wrongs, many of which exist today, but to be so partisan is rediculous. To publish in the form it was in would be horrible. Still, my edits might need a little grammar, as I am not trying to lay down the "law", but to remonstrate and correct as necessary.
The history section also has nothing about Latin American history after the independence movements. As the Latin American History page itself has little to no information in English pertaining to this era, I think that more information here is especially needed considering the lack of it elsewhere. CrashCart9 08:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
What people "identify" with is up to each individual, of course, but sociologists find that broad classes of people tend to group themselves together.
Those who regard the term "Latin American" as describing them well may indeed feel a kinship or "identity" as " Latin Americans". Whether or not Brazilians apply the label "Latin American" to themselves or not can best be decided by sociologists or pollsters. Let's see some research on this, anyone want to google it up or (shudder) actually read a book?
As for Hyphenated Americans, if people use terms like "Mexican-American" to refer to U.S. citizens of Mexican heritage, then that's what the word means to them. Others, perhaps, may insist that the "American" part of "Mexican-American" ought to refer to America (continent) rather than America (country); so that term doesn't work for them.
We contributors ought not to prescribe what terms ought to mean - that would make us advocates. We should describe neutrally how people in general use these terms. -- Uncle Ed 18:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
As a native speaker of English and a student of both Latin and Ancient Greek, I protest the sentiment expressed in the beginning of this article that English is a Germanic language. I will yield that English is not a true Romance language, as it did not descend directly from Latin, but it is likely made up of more Romance language derivations than Germanic, some would say a majority of English words are from Latin and Ancient Greek, and at very least it is not to be considered Germanic. DougOfDoom talk 23:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Great! Problem solved. Everything in the Americas is "Latin"- except the dutch speaking parts.
Just kidding. Fine! English is considered a Germanic language as it has Germanic roots from the "Germanic" tribes (the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes)which migrated from the European continent to the island of Great Britain. The underlying structure of the language stems from this Germanic genesis. Although both contemporary English and German are very different from what they once were, this linguistic heritage is still used to describe the commonalities.
There are 3 primary methods by which English became heavily influenced by Latin. Although the Romans did rule England for a time, there are actually very few remnants of this in the language. Later, as Christianity spread to England, a number of terms entered the language- Bible, Baptize (which itself is of Greek origin, the word, not the practice), Pope, Bishop, Saint. There are a surprising number of words which were NOT imported, apparently because there was a sufficient one either already in use or a ready substitute (God, sin, Holy Ghost, Church) in the local vernacular.
The second, and perhaps the most enduring stems from the Norman invasion. This brought French to the royal court, and English has never been the same since. However, the bulk of the grammar and the structure were never supplanted by French. Most of the words absorbed were nouns and verbs, but the structure of French, much of it of Latin origin, never made it to English. Among these would be the use of gender in both nouns and adjectives, and the various conjugations. Most of the words taken already had a commonly used word, and this is a great source of the many synonyms in English, many of which have taken on their own subtle differences (example door and portal).
The third instance began in about the early 1700s and lasted until abou the late 1800s. This is the deliberate introduction of primarily scientific terms of Latin origin into the English language. Much of this was to have standard scientific terms among all the languages of Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm ( talk • contribs) 00:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
No, English is not derived from latin, but from Germanic, that is just a fact. that English have borrowed words of Latin origin doesn't make it a Latin language. Mst Romance words in English are more used in "official", scientific, diplomatic or "literary" speech. But most of the words used in everyday english are 80%germanic; The struture and origin of the language is almost 100% Germanic. Above this, in Europe, the term "latin", when applied to peoples has cultural, ethnical and geographical conotations that English culture don't have at all :
- A geographical situation and direct cultural link to the mediterranean sea, (settlments of Greeks, Romans, phenicians, etc)
- Influence of mediterranean way of life :
- food (wine, olives, etc). way of life linked to a warmer climate. mainly mediterranean-based behaviours.
- societies with a catholic history and herency
To be clear, latin-America is the part of America whose countries have been mainly build on those latin cultures, by opposition to those buid on English and Dutch ones. That is quite simple. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabb leb ( talk • contribs) 00:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Compared to romance languages and to the countries of latin culture, English culture are definitively a country of Germanic (northern European) culture. (Unsigned comment from an anonymous author).
I did some research and it seems like "Latin America" is a synonym for Central America, maybe including parts of Columbia, Venezuela and some other South American countries. I think this is the best definition of the area in respect to geography. The map should show the core Latin American countries in a solid color and the other ones included only sometimes in a lighter shade or even in stripes.
At the same time, I think Central America defines a geographic region and Latin America defines a cultural region. -- Shawn 16:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Once again, Latin America is NOT defined by a US-centred geography or the popular mediatic stereotypes (like "something south of US, with tropical food and climate, rythmic danses and exotic mixed peoples"). This caricatural, almost racist definition would be just a little bit correct (with heavy generalisations), only to central America, Spanish Caribean and northern Part of South America. Excluding half of Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina and most of Chile of the concept (wich in reality represent an important part of the region, maybe half of it, wich is "latin" in the European meaning and not follows at all the "US latinAmerican stereotypes"). The definition of latin America is so simple, you just have to forget the preconcieved ideas you have about it : it is made of just two words with simple meanings : - "Latin", a reference to South European cultures of romance languages ( Latin Europe). - "America", a reference to the contient(s) call America (North, South and Central, not just "U.S.A")
I have included the names of Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Clarice Lispector, and Jorge Amado in the list of "other notable Latin American writers" to make the list more representative of Brazilian literature (there was no Brazilian author on the list before). 200.177.26.201 22:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
In the beginning the article says that 20 independant countries make up Latin America and in the picture caption. However, later on there is a listing of countries with 21. I also looked up links and found that most said 20+ countries. Someone should straighten this out, and preferably put up a couple refs for whichever choice is decided upon. Strongfaithin1 22:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)strongfaithin1 Strongfaithin1 22:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Is Latin America a part of the western world? I'm asking this because at the western world page this issue became a very passionate discussion.
Yes it is part of the western world, because it derives its culture from Western European countries as much ae US and Canada. LAtin America is not a copy of Europe, but US and Canada are not either and had African an native influences too. some countries in Latin America, such as Argentina have more Population of European descent that the US, why it would be not western ?--
Fabb leb
23:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, Chile is a pretty eurocentric nation... baloo_rch 03:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)