This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Latimeria article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
As a split article, I don't think this is very useful. When people think of the modern era fish, they think the order name Coelacanth not the family name Latimeria. The Coelacanth page can easily accommodate Latimeria information. I propose a merger back, and possibly save the infobox (and any other Latimeria specific info) into the Coelacanth article. -- Eqdoktor 09:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree, there should be a summary or redirect to the full details/content in all related places. There is no reason, however, to maintain four articles with so many overlapping details on the same subject. I do not see why a reader, whether an expert or a layperson, would ever want to read an article that contains incomplete details, when all of the relevant information can be neatly presented in a single article. There should be one authoritative article on the living Coelacanth, so that readers can digest the (sparse) information we have on them from one page, rather than missing some important details as it is presently organized. For example, there are currently some details about the Latimeria family in Coelacanth that are not in the family article, and vise-versa.
The proposal above was to make the authoritative article be Coelacanth, as that's the name most people associate with these extant creatures and likely to be the search term. I think that the Coelacanth article would be the best location for the ~10 paragraphs of details on the two living species, at least until the amount of content outgrows a single article. Rather than confusing readers by perpetuating the 'myth' that these are living fossils, having the authoritative article be Coelacanth would clear up such myths by also prominently including sections on the evolution of the order. To prevent duplication of editing effort, and to ensure that readers get the most up-to-date information, redirects would be appropriate to the authoritative article (from Latimeria, West Indian Ocean coelacanth, and Indonesian coelacanth). Mamyles ( talk) 17:54, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
I don't think that describing living Coelacanth exclusively in the order article would be misleading. Most articles about sea creature orders do focus on describing living species. Take the shark superorder Selachimorpha, a good article. It is much like Coelacanth where it includes evolution and taxonomy, and then proceeds to describe living species. Coelacanth could be structured similarly: a single article that includes the history, evolution/taxonomy, and behavior of modern Coelacanth. Interesting species like Mawsonia could be mentioned in the evolution section, to help to stamp out the 'living fossil' myth by drawing attention to fossils that do not at all resemble the modern species. The current Coelacanth article barely mentions Mawsonia at all.
Note that because the content about these creatures is so sparse, we would need all of the information on one page to get to an acceptable length and topic depth for good or featured article status. Mamyles ( talk) 15:26, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Latimeria getting merged w/ Coelacanth is like Human getting merged w/ Homo. I think they should be kept separate. D3RP4L3RT ( talk) 22:32, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
In the absence of a neutral closer, I'll note that there's a clear consensus not to merge anything into Coelacanth, but a rewrite is encouraged (I'll try to improve it next week by adding a summary of extinct species). I've modified merge proposal headers of the other articles to continue soliciting opinions/suggestions about merging the two species into Latimeria. Thanks for humoring me - great feedback so far. Mamyles ( talk) 15:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
There is a scan here: http://gombessa.tripod.com/scienceleadstheway/id3.html 76.117.247.55 ( talk) 23:33, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
The local common name for these fish appears to be "gombessa", also a name which is used by some conservation efforts. They are referred to as such by numerous articles and scientific publications (e.g. Bucciarelli, G., Bernardi, G., & Bernardi, G. (2002). An ultracentrifugation analysis of two hundred fish genomes. Gene, 295(2), 153-162.) Should this be used as the article title as per the Wiki policy on common names? The current title "West Indian Ocean coelacanth" seems to be more of a description of the gombessa than a name. Also, "West Indian Ocean coelacanth" currently yields 40 results on Google Scholar vs. 64 for gombessa. Several sources seem to use "gombessa" for Latimeria as a whole, I'm not sure if there is an equivalent common name for the Indonesian species? Dinoguy2 ( talk) 11:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Latimeria. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:57, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Latimeria article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
As a split article, I don't think this is very useful. When people think of the modern era fish, they think the order name Coelacanth not the family name Latimeria. The Coelacanth page can easily accommodate Latimeria information. I propose a merger back, and possibly save the infobox (and any other Latimeria specific info) into the Coelacanth article. -- Eqdoktor 09:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree, there should be a summary or redirect to the full details/content in all related places. There is no reason, however, to maintain four articles with so many overlapping details on the same subject. I do not see why a reader, whether an expert or a layperson, would ever want to read an article that contains incomplete details, when all of the relevant information can be neatly presented in a single article. There should be one authoritative article on the living Coelacanth, so that readers can digest the (sparse) information we have on them from one page, rather than missing some important details as it is presently organized. For example, there are currently some details about the Latimeria family in Coelacanth that are not in the family article, and vise-versa.
The proposal above was to make the authoritative article be Coelacanth, as that's the name most people associate with these extant creatures and likely to be the search term. I think that the Coelacanth article would be the best location for the ~10 paragraphs of details on the two living species, at least until the amount of content outgrows a single article. Rather than confusing readers by perpetuating the 'myth' that these are living fossils, having the authoritative article be Coelacanth would clear up such myths by also prominently including sections on the evolution of the order. To prevent duplication of editing effort, and to ensure that readers get the most up-to-date information, redirects would be appropriate to the authoritative article (from Latimeria, West Indian Ocean coelacanth, and Indonesian coelacanth). Mamyles ( talk) 17:54, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
I don't think that describing living Coelacanth exclusively in the order article would be misleading. Most articles about sea creature orders do focus on describing living species. Take the shark superorder Selachimorpha, a good article. It is much like Coelacanth where it includes evolution and taxonomy, and then proceeds to describe living species. Coelacanth could be structured similarly: a single article that includes the history, evolution/taxonomy, and behavior of modern Coelacanth. Interesting species like Mawsonia could be mentioned in the evolution section, to help to stamp out the 'living fossil' myth by drawing attention to fossils that do not at all resemble the modern species. The current Coelacanth article barely mentions Mawsonia at all.
Note that because the content about these creatures is so sparse, we would need all of the information on one page to get to an acceptable length and topic depth for good or featured article status. Mamyles ( talk) 15:26, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Latimeria getting merged w/ Coelacanth is like Human getting merged w/ Homo. I think they should be kept separate. D3RP4L3RT ( talk) 22:32, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
In the absence of a neutral closer, I'll note that there's a clear consensus not to merge anything into Coelacanth, but a rewrite is encouraged (I'll try to improve it next week by adding a summary of extinct species). I've modified merge proposal headers of the other articles to continue soliciting opinions/suggestions about merging the two species into Latimeria. Thanks for humoring me - great feedback so far. Mamyles ( talk) 15:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
There is a scan here: http://gombessa.tripod.com/scienceleadstheway/id3.html 76.117.247.55 ( talk) 23:33, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
The local common name for these fish appears to be "gombessa", also a name which is used by some conservation efforts. They are referred to as such by numerous articles and scientific publications (e.g. Bucciarelli, G., Bernardi, G., & Bernardi, G. (2002). An ultracentrifugation analysis of two hundred fish genomes. Gene, 295(2), 153-162.) Should this be used as the article title as per the Wiki policy on common names? The current title "West Indian Ocean coelacanth" seems to be more of a description of the gombessa than a name. Also, "West Indian Ocean coelacanth" currently yields 40 results on Google Scholar vs. 64 for gombessa. Several sources seem to use "gombessa" for Latimeria as a whole, I'm not sure if there is an equivalent common name for the Indonesian species? Dinoguy2 ( talk) 11:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Latimeria. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:57, 17 December 2017 (UTC)