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The result of the move request was: Moved. The proponent of the move cited "The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject will recognize." His argument that these are the common names for these periods did not get any explicit disagreement from the other editors. He pointed out that the dynasties for which 'Dynasty' is retained under his plan are the same as those that always have the Dynasty character in Chinese. Assuming that consensus continues to back this line of thinking it will offer a handy decision rule through similar cases in the future. Some objectors argued that we want to 'help readers who aren't necessarily familiar with Chinese history to get a broad idea of what a topic refers to,' but this is not an idea that seems to get any support in the WP:Article titles policy. The proponent offered good answers to some well-posed objections, offering 'Babylonia' in response to the suggestion that 'Zhou' is an odd word, and 'protein' as an example of an understood term that is often omitted from titles. EdJohnston ( talk) 04:53, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
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requested move/dated}}
– Per WP:Concise and WP:Precise for the first five. While some Chinese dynasties (e.g. Zhou Dynasty, Ming Dynasty, Tang Dynasty etc.) include the word "dynasty" in the titles, it was because things would be quite ambiguous without it; plus their Chinese usages also always included the word "dynasty" (朝 or 代). This is not the case for those dynasties above. The current disambiguation system for Later Liang is arbitrary. "Later Liang Dynasty" can also be used to denote the sixteen kingdom state in 4th century, see e.g. [1] and vice versa (e.g. [2]). Later Liang and Later Liang Dynasty should both direct to the same disambiguation page. Timmyshin ( talk) 19:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Comment Cambridge History of China, Volume 5, Part 1, p. 38, on the 5 dynasties: "The founders of each of these dynasties used the name of a previous dynasty as a way of linking their dynasty to lineages, regions, and successes of the past. Although these states did not, as a rule, refer to themselves using the prefixes Later, Northern, Southern, etc., it is a long-standing historiographic practice that helps to distinguish one dynasty from another." On the same page the dynasties were simply referred to as "the Later Liang, the Later T’ang, the Later Chin, the Later Han, and the Later Chou" without any suffixes. ("T'ang", "Chin", "Chou" were somewhat outdated spellings of "Tang", "Jin", and "Zhou".) Timmyshin ( talk) 06:10, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Moved. The proponent of the move cited "The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject will recognize." His argument that these are the common names for these periods did not get any explicit disagreement from the other editors. He pointed out that the dynasties for which 'Dynasty' is retained under his plan are the same as those that always have the Dynasty character in Chinese. Assuming that consensus continues to back this line of thinking it will offer a handy decision rule through similar cases in the future. Some objectors argued that we want to 'help readers who aren't necessarily familiar with Chinese history to get a broad idea of what a topic refers to,' but this is not an idea that seems to get any support in the WP:Article titles policy. The proponent offered good answers to some well-posed objections, offering 'Babylonia' in response to the suggestion that 'Zhou' is an odd word, and 'protein' as an example of an understood term that is often omitted from titles. EdJohnston ( talk) 04:53, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
{{
requested move/dated}}
– Per WP:Concise and WP:Precise for the first five. While some Chinese dynasties (e.g. Zhou Dynasty, Ming Dynasty, Tang Dynasty etc.) include the word "dynasty" in the titles, it was because things would be quite ambiguous without it; plus their Chinese usages also always included the word "dynasty" (朝 or 代). This is not the case for those dynasties above. The current disambiguation system for Later Liang is arbitrary. "Later Liang Dynasty" can also be used to denote the sixteen kingdom state in 4th century, see e.g. [1] and vice versa (e.g. [2]). Later Liang and Later Liang Dynasty should both direct to the same disambiguation page. Timmyshin ( talk) 19:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Comment Cambridge History of China, Volume 5, Part 1, p. 38, on the 5 dynasties: "The founders of each of these dynasties used the name of a previous dynasty as a way of linking their dynasty to lineages, regions, and successes of the past. Although these states did not, as a rule, refer to themselves using the prefixes Later, Northern, Southern, etc., it is a long-standing historiographic practice that helps to distinguish one dynasty from another." On the same page the dynasties were simply referred to as "the Later Liang, the Later T’ang, the Later Chin, the Later Han, and the Later Chou" without any suffixes. ("T'ang", "Chin", "Chou" were somewhat outdated spellings of "Tang", "Jin", and "Zhou".) Timmyshin ( talk) 06:10, 15 February 2014 (UTC)