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Which wiki figures are solid? They differ big time from other articles and have to be considered inconsequente. e.g. the inhabitant figure for Hamburg refer to the actual city figure where Frankfurt or Lisbon refer to the metropolitan area. Please sort that out asap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_Urban_Zone#Ranking_methodology — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.70.160.185 ( talk) 20:15, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
This list says that the urban population of Oslo is 715.000. I haver never seen this numbers been used before. Where is it from? The official urban population number from Statistics Norway (Statistisk sentralbyrå in Norwegian) is 906 681. See here for reference: http://www.ssb.no/beftett/tab-2011-06-17-01.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.26.91 ( talk) 22:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Budapest's urban area population number differs from the number indicated on the Budapest-Link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.171.252.5 ( talk) 16:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
Geopolis data are available again on http://e-geopolis.eu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.197.177.163 ( talk) 10:25, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Barcelona's Metropolitan Area is 5.150.000 (updated 2006) in 3.925 km2 (1.515 ml2), as it is observed in... http://bcnip.blogsome.com/la-region-metropolitana-de-Barcelona (data 2005)
Having lived near The Hague for several years until a year or so ago I am surprised to see it linked to Rotterdam as the fields and other open areas in between are a lot more than 200 m wide. What's the source, and do we need a list of municipalities (the actual unit will have to differ for each country of course) in each urban area? -- GPoss 07:27, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)
I find the population figures given are confusing, since they are very different from some other sources in Wikipedia itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_European_cities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_Cities_of_the_European_Union_by_population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_most_populous_cities_in_the_world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_of_the_world
I wanted to get the population figures of cities in the Netherlands and I was very much surprised by the figures given in this page. They don't even come near to the figures given in the pages I've listed above. The difference is very huge. I wonder why? Could someone clarify it to me. Thank you.
This article desperately needs to cite some sources! -- Khendon 20:12, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
ok
I have transformed the article into a list of largest urban areas of the European Union (as opposed to a list of urban areas of western Europe as it was before). This will be of more interest to people I think, and will enable comparisons with Largest cities of the European Union by population. Also, I put figures for 2005. Hardouin 23:00, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
What is your source for these? john k 01:36, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
And, also, citing sources should be done - if you haven't plagiarized, there shouldn't be problems with copyright. If you have plagiarized, you've plagiarized whether or not you cite sources. john k 01:49, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hardouin, do you have the data that would allow us to have more entries here? I'd personally like to see all urban areas of over 100,000 or so listed, if that's possible. john k 00:54, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't unfortunately. If I had all the data from Geopolis (University of Avignon) it would be very easy to list all urban areas over 100,000 inhabitants. Unfortunately I only have their data for some European countries. For other European countries, either the national statistical offices provide the urban areas data (such as in the UK), in which case it is not too difficult to find the data; either the national statistical offices do not provide data for urban areas (such as in Poland, Latvia, Czech Republic, and so on), and then it would be rather nightmarish to try to compute all the urban areas above 100,000 (it was already nightmarish enough when I had to do it for the urban areas above 750,000 inhabitants). Hardouin 01:06, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Geopolis seems strangely incomplete, as well, even for the countries covered - Ghent isn't listed for Belgium, for instance. Ah well... john k 04:00, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
No, no. Geopolis is complete. This is a very serious research group that I respect a lot. If you don't see a city, that means it is included into the urban area of another city. Ghent and Antwerp are included into the urban area of Brussels, because analyzing detailed maps and aerial pictures, Geopolis considers that these three cities are now linked together by their suburbs. In 1990 it was not the case yet. In 2000 they were linked. When I made the list, in the case of Belgium I used the 1990 definition though. The reason for this is that Geopolis uses the 200 meters concept to determine whether something is part of an urban area or not. In very dense countries though, a 50 meters concept would make more sense. As things goes, with a 200 meters definition, someday there will be a huge urban area all the way from Rotterdam to Stutgart along the Rhine Valley. With a 50 meters definition, you are more conservative, so Brussels, Antwerp, and Ghent urban areas are still separate. The UK National Statistics also uses the 50 meters definition, which makes sense in the case of the highly dense England. So I considered Brussels, Antwerp, and Ghent to be still separate, as in 1990, and I also considered Ruhr Center, Ruhr South, and Cologne to be still separate, as in 1990 (Geopolis considers that these three linked up in 2000, and are now the largest urban area of Europe, which Geopolis calls "Ruhr"). Hardouin 22:59, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Okay, gotcha. Perhaps we could move more conservative and got all the areas with >500,000, though... john k 23:44, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It is said in the text: "Urban areas are contiguous built-up areas where houses are not more than 200 meters apart (discounting rivers, parks, roads, industrial fields, etc.)." So why is there a "Cologne-Bonn area" with 2.5 Mio and a "South Ruhr-Düsseldorf-Wuppertal" area with 2.4 Mio? Between Cologne and Bonn there is a gap that really isn't urban. Even in Largest European metropolitan areas the Cologne metropolitan area has "only" 1.8 Mio. Same with "South Ruhr-Düsseldorf-Wuppertal". Do you really want to add the villages of Bergisches Land ( Berg (German region)) to an urban area? It is said in the text: "Figures here are accurate, unlike rough estimates of European metropolitan areas than can be found online." I would say figures here are much less accurate than in most other sources.
Two comments:
1- about the UK, it can't be helped, as 50 meters is the definition used by UK statistics. However, this plays only at the margin. With a 200 meters definition, UK urban areas would have population 10% to at maximum 20% higher. It's not like they would double their population! Also, be aware that this problem happens with most stastitics. Definitions for anything from GDP, to interest rate, to urban area, to literacy rate, you name it, definitions change from country to country, and sometimes even from decade to decade within a given country, so that someone comparing statistics should always be aware of a certain margin of error. The only difference is that here, I have explicitly listed the differences in definition, whereas in most stastics lists, nobody would care to tell you there are definition differences. E.g.: when you check a list of countries according to literacy rates, usually people don't care to tell you that the definition of literacy rate varies a lot from country to country. So let's not be naive. Pure exact data do not exist. The best we can do is to approximate reality.
2- about the Ruhr, the definitions come from Geopolis, and trust me they have done their homework. So if they say Bonn and Cologne are linked into a single urban area, I trust them. Check the English part of their website, they will explain you why you may perceive Bonn and Cologne as not linked together, while in fact they are. Same thing about South Ruhr.
Hardouin 01:03, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Another thing: about the UK and the 50 meters definition, I have data for London and Birmingham in 2000. In 2000, with a 50 meters definition the urban area of London had 8,250,000 inhabitants, whereas with a 200 meters definition it had 9,160,000 inhabitants. So you see that's only an 11% difference. For Birmingham, with a 50 meters definition there were 2,285,000 inhabitants, whereas with a 200 meters definition there were 2,456,000 inhabitants. That's a difference of only 7.5%. Also, remember that in a very dense country like England, a 50 meters definition makes more sense than a 200 meters definition. With a 200 meters definition, Manchester and Liverpool would be joined into a single urban area. Does it really make sense? Finally, I would also like to point this: in non dense countries like Spain or France, whether we use 50 meters or 200 meters makes no difference. I reckon with a 50 meters definition the population of Madrid or Paris urban areas would be only 1% smaller or so. So in fact, it's not so much that there's a bias agaisnt England with the 50 meters definiton, but it's more like there would be a bias FOR England with a 200 meters definition applied to England. The UK National Statistics understand that I suspect, and that's why they use the more conservative 50 meters definition. Hardouin 13:09, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In the section titled "Non-EU countries of Western Europe", you omitted to include a qualifying urban area: Zagreb. Croatia is the only Western country in Europe (due to its Roman Catholic affinity) that does not belong to either the EU or EFTA. Nevertheless, its capital should be included in this short list along with Zurich and Oslo. -- Francisco 14:30, 07 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It used to be "Western Europe", a rather vague definition. Now it's about the European Union. My question is: why can't it be about Europe, period? Isn't that a tiny bit more *sane* than first pretending to talk about the EU alone, and then adding an arbitrary section about non-EU urban areas of so-called "Western Europe" that'd have been included in the list, if only they had been member states?
Instead of the what-ifs, why don't we make this page be about Europe, full-stop? I'm guessing that there's only one major urban area that falls right in the boundary of Europe and non-Europe, namely Istanbul. Should be no problem to include it with a footnote that it's located partially in Asia as well. Aris Katsaris 03:38, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
This page is not about the whole of Europe because it is virtually impossible to find serious data for urban areas of the European part of Russia. Besides, where does Europe stop? Is Ekaterinburg a European city? What about Astrakhan? Using the EU is convenient, and at least the subject is precisely defined. Hardouin 12:50, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Given the amount of criticism directed at the list, I feel compelled to say a few words about statistics and accuracy. Statistics are not rocket science! When checking statistics lists such as the one in the article here, people should always be aware that there is a margin of error. As a rule of thumb, I would consider a 10% margin of error a safe bet. So when we find in the list that Munich is the 23rd largest urban area of the EU, what it tells us is that Munich is approximately ranking in the early 20s (could be 21st largest, could be 25th). What it tells us is that it is definitely not in the top 10 of the largest urban areas of the EU, and it is not ranking in the 50s or 60s ranks either. With a margin of error in mind, I think what we can say for sure from the list is that Paris is the largest urban area of the EU, and London is the 2nd largest urban area of the EU. Beyond that, all other urban areas could possibly be a few ranks up or down.
This uncertainty of statistics is found in any context. Even official census data, which most people always take for granted (as if it was the Gospel!), have themselves margins of errors. E.g.: at the 2000 US Census, the US Census Bureau said the population of the US was 281,421,906 (on April 1, 2000). This is the figure you find everywhere. In fact, nobody knows what was the population of the US on April 1, 2000. It could have been 275 million, it could have been 290 million. What the figure tell us is that it was definitely not 100 million, and it was definitely not 500 million. Definitions for censuses also change from country to country. In some countries, university students are counted as inhabitants of the city where the university is located, while in other countries they are counted as inhabitants of the city they come from. Is a Harvard student from Arkansas an inhabitant of Massachusetts? or an inhabitant of Arkansas? US Census Bureau will say one thing, other countries will say other things. As for military personnel, some countries count them in the city they come from, whereas other counties count them in the city where they are stationed. You may think this is a detail, but in a country like China where there are about 2.5 million people in the army, that can make a big difference. Yet in other countries, there are several definitions as to how people should be counted when a census is conducted, and some countries such as France produce different series of census data, based on different definitions, so that if you don't know the subtleties of these definitions, you may screw things badly. E.g.: at the 1999 census, the population of the city of Toulouse was 390,350 with definition #1, 398,423 with definition #2, and 389,496 with definition #3. In the French case, it is data with definition #1 that should be used when making international comparisons, but many Wikipedians ignore this, so I have found time and again the population of French cities on Wikipedia using definition #2, which increases the size of the population.
When it comes to statistics related to the economy, things get even more crazy. Even statistics coming from respectable institution such as World Bank of IMF should be taken with a lot of caution. For instance, the ranking of countries according to their GDP is published every year by the World Bank, and it is religiously reported here at Wikipedia every year. Problem is, different countries have widely different ways to calculate GDP, so that we should at least consider a 10% margin of error for the numbers in that list. For instance, some countries include government services (such as teaching delivered in state schools) in the GDP, while other don't. And the US is notoriously famous to present inflated GDP figures due to the definition they use. The World Bank list says that UK is the 4th largest economy in the world, France is the 5th, and Italy is the 6th. However, figures for these three countries are pretty close, and nobody knows for sure which is 4th, which is 5th, and which is 6th. For instance, services are overvalued in the UK, and calling a locksmith to open your door will cost you about £250 in London, but just £75 in Paris (I know that from experience!), so that the exact same job performed by a locksmith will add £275 to the UK GDP, but only £75 to the French GDP. As for Italy, it is estimated that at least 20 to 30% of the economy goes unreported, the so-called "black economy", in order to evade taxation, so that the GDP of Italy is considerably underestimated. So it is better to say that the economies of UK, France, and Italy have roughly the same size. But nobody will use conditional or "roughly", people love rankings and certainty, that's why no later than last week I heard Charles Kennedy, the leader of the Liberal Democrats in the UK, saying on TV that "we should be proud to be the fourth largest economy in the world". Unfortunately, there's no certainty in statistics I'm afraid. So next time please be a bit more indulgent when you criticize the list of largest urban areas of the EU.
Hardouin 14:35, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Figures at Geopolis are for 2000. Figures here are for 2005. For Paris, figures have also been revised up due to latest French census data from 2004. For Essen I used the 1990 definition of Geopolis, not the 2000 definition. Every 10 years they update the limits of urban areas. Problem is, in very dense areas like the Ruhr, the 200 meters concept may lead to crazy results. So their Essen figure for 2000 is actually a vast urban area extending all the way from Essen down to Cologne and Bonn. There are already people here critizing the fact that Bonn and Cologne are included into a single urban area, now just imagine what they would say if we included everything from Essen to Bonn into a single urban area! So I prefered to use the 1990 definition, which is more conservative, because it distinguishes a Essen-Ruhr central area, distinct from a Düsseldorf-Wuppertal-south Ruhr urban area, distinct from a Cologne-Bonn urban area (whereas the 2000 definition gathers all of them together). Again, this kind of problems happen in very dense areas, so we will face such problems with: England, Ruhr, Belgium, and Netherlands. For Belgium I also used the 1990 definition (otherwise we would have a single Brussels-Antwerp urban area!). The rest of Europe is not as troublesome. Hardouin 23:09, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It's a tricky point I agree. Just think that if we use the 2000 definition for Belgium, we end up with a Brussels urban area of 4 million inhabitants! Nowhere you will find that Brussels has 4 million inhabitants. So what people would think in terms of the credibility of our list? I think we could rationalize it by saying we use conservative definitions (50 meters, 1990 definitions) in very dense territories, and normal definitions (200 meters, 2000 definitions) in less dense territories. Also, let me correct you on one thing: its not the data that are 15 year old, its the definitions. That's a big difference. Hardouin 00:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Actually you're completely wrong on that. The urban area of Paris is much much more densily built-up than the Ruhr (3120 inh. per km² for Paris urban area vs. 1480 inh. per km² for the 2000 definition Ruhr-Cologne-Bonn urban area). In fact the densities found in the urban area of Paris are the highest in Europe (Russia excluded). Even if you take the whole Île-de-France région, which is much larger than the urban area of Paris, the density is still 938 inh. per km², compared to only 530 inh. per km² in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. Hardouin 01:43, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It would seem like it would be ideal to just use the 50 meter number throughout, if possible. That would insure non-crazy results in the denser areas, and probably wouldn't change the less dense areas so much. But this might be difficult to actually do. john k 02:20, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
To the users who always keep upgrading Tricity in the list: 1,041,000 inhabitants is a figure for the METROPOLITAN AREA. Here, this is a list of populations of URBAN AREAS, and the population of the urban area of Gdansk-Gdynia is only 849,000 inhabitants. You get the distinction? Re-read the introduction of the article if you're confused. And stop making incorrect edits! Also, it's better to leave the name Gdansk-Gdynia. Most people are not familiar with the name "Tricity". Hardouin 11:20, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Please give me any serious source that urban areas in Tricity are smaller then metropolitan areas and actually match borders of the cities: Gdansk, Gdynia and Sopot? Cautious 15:24, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Cautious, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and what the difference is between an urban area and a metropolitan area. Quit reverting the article, and quit accusing Hardouin of vandalism. john k 15:57, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
So what is the difference? According to Polish legal stand, thera are urban and rural communities POINT. How you are going to measure Polish urban/metropolitan areas population if these meanings have no equivalents in Poland?? The problem of Hardoiun is that he has found some statistical data about Pomeranian Voivodship, where the area is divided on Gdansk-Gdynia-Sopot, Gdansk region and Slupsk region. Some small brain clerk in stat office has made this division that actually makes no sense except statistical. One would probably buy a house in Zukowo only bacuase it is very tidy town few kilometers from Tricity Cricle Highway so you can reach at ease every point of Tricity. However, Zukowo is town in Gdansk region. Between Zukowo borders and Gdansk borders there is a gap, officially classified as rural area. Nevertheless, there is house after house on the connecting highway, so according to definition from the article both towns belong to the same urban area. Am I correct? Cautious 20:59, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have deleted edit by anonymous user who doesn't know what he/she is talking about, obviously. In the the list , the figures for Italian cities are not the provincial population figures. They are strictly population figures for Italian urban areas, as calculated by the Geopolis research group, who have done their research carefully, as was explained many times here. Hardouin 00:29, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Eon user should show us the official documents from where his new figure for the Gdansk-Gdynia urban area comes, before we actually modify the figure in the list. Then after we see the documents, the other users will be able to have their say on this, and if all agree we'll make the change. Hardouin 00:36, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You are welcome:
I myself made necessary calculations (see Tricity article). I added up populations of all urban "gminas" that consist one continous urban area. Since my calculations are already in place, I am going to restore my edits and I will wait for remarks to adjust the numbers, if there is serious reason for it. 05:17, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The whole tone of this article is that it's perfect and beyond dispute, but this is just plain wrong. Settlement patterns are infinitely complex and these are still just one person's numbers. Just the UK figures throw up all sorts of problems and will seriously mislead people. How on earth does Birkenhead merit dual billing with Liverpool while Bradford (a real city in its own right, which Birkenhead isn't) is treated as a mere suburb of Leeds that isn't worth mentioning. Osomec 05:01, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
The article gives figures for 2005 for various urban areas in the United Kingdom. What is the source of these figures? The Office of National Statistics source quoted in the References section of the article gives figures for 2001 and these figures differ from those quoted in the article. The University of Avignon source in the Reference section showed the UK page as a work in progress and did not appear to list any figures for the UK at all. Thanks. Valiantis 19:32, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
At this list the urban area of Nuernberg has a Population of 756.000.
And here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_European_cities
Why that? I think the Population of 1.050.000 is the correct value.
according with the ONU censu bureau i change the Milano population of the URBAN AREA to the correct numeber of 4.007.000 inhabitants (2004). The same changes for Roma, Napoli and Torino. More information at the official site of ONU: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wup2003/2003WUPHighlights.pdf
I saw in history that this is a list of Urban Areas not Metropolitan areas, portuguese law doesn't recognize "urban areas" only "Metropolitan Areas" if you delete Braga you also must delete Lisbon and Oporto. So it's hipocrisy deleting Braga.
The list makes no sense what so ever and I going to suggest it for deletion... the definition that the writer tries to explain is vague and totally subjective. I see no reason for this list to exist... it should be replaced prehaps by a list that contains a collection- not neccesarily ranked of the metro populations of Europe's largest cities... This list seems totally random and not very beleivable - there are some thing here that I find hard to accept- why does the Paris urban area encompass basically all of the Ile de France region, a huge region including urban, surburban, and even rural areas, while London here only includes the areas inside the so-called Green Belt when the city's surbuban sprawl is far larger. Or Munich and Zurich, Munich's urban population is almost identical to the city's population, although the city is surrounded by densely population surburban sprawl, while nearby Zurich includes the city and just about all of the surrounding region.. I don't get it - the method used for this list is nonsense. I think this is an ideal candidate for deletion.
Oh, and if you don't trust the University of Avignon, you can also check the World Urbanization Prospects report pulished by the United Nations in 2003 ( [3]), look at Table A.12, and you'll see that the UN figures are strikingly similar to those in the article here. So if the list "makes no sense what so ever", is "totally random", and "not very believable", then feel free to call the United Nations statisticians to let them know that their data are nonsense and that you know better. Hardouin 04:02, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Metropolitan Gothenburg has a population of almost 850,000. Yet, it's not on the list. Would someone please add it?
Edit: Forget this post. Didn't see that the list just included the urban area.
In fact it is like that. The Urban Area of Gothenburg is larger than the statistics says. I would say that the urban area has at least 800 000 inhabitants. First they do not count large part of the city of Gothenburg. Like Torslanda, Rödbo, Säve, Tuve and Billdal and also the southern arcipelago that is a part of the city. Then there are parts that are emerged with the city that belongs to other municipalties that do not count. Like Surte-Bohus were you actually can see the Lövgärdet as you see Surte Lövgärdet is on a hill and below there is Surte. . Then is Kungälv only separated from the city of Göteborg by a river and it is right to the oposite of Surte. Then Billdal is not counted because there is a park between Billdall and the statistical urban area of Gothenburg. Billdal lies in both Kungsbacka and Gothenburg. Were the Onsala peninsula and central Kungsbacka is an urban area connected to Gothenburg. Then is Lerum connected to the urban area and also Öckerö that is right to the opposite of Torslanda. We could also say that Alingsås is connected to Lerum. Then there are probably less than 200 metres between the houses along all Göta river up to Lilla Edet. I would say that the Göteborg urban area has at least 800 000 people. The thing is that those that work on the bureau of statistics in Sweden are hostile towards Gothenburg and want it to appear as small and insignificant as possible. Thats why they do this. So it is obviously not unbiased.
If the latest figures available are for 2000 those should be the ones used. Extrapolation is original research and has no place here. Merchbow 07:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Your definition of metropolitan areas doesn't stack up for Newcastle - Sunderland as there's a large greenbelt (much more than 200m) between them. See http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=54.904054,-1.479721&spn=0.143307,0.241356
Newcastle - Gateshead - North Tyneside - South Tyneside is acceptable though at around 750000. 85.210.2.238 13:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
It is probably due to Sunderland being part of the Metropolitan County of Tyne & Wear which gives the impression it is part of the same urban area (although statistically is). Looking on the map it is clear there is a definate green wedge of non-urbanisation between Sunderland and South Sheilds in the north, however to the immediate west of Sunderland is Washington which is part of the City pf Sunderland, and Washington is connected to Gateshead through its urban area. So Sunderland is part of the Newcastle urban area through this way. I never fully understood why it is the Newcastle urban area and not the Sunderland urban area, after all Sunderland is a more populous district.
Another thing that bothers me is the UK having metropolitan areas at all, surely a country so densely populated, that all metro areas become co-terminus and are part of the same area of influence.
Shouldn't it be called "Tyneside-Wearside"? It includes many areas which are neither Newcastle nor Sunderland. Lfh 14:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
added new population of Urban Area of Milan in the year 2006 by Italian Governement, the Demographia Group and World Gazzetter. http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=1142792485&men=gcis&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-108&srt=pnan&col=aohdq&va=&pt=a http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf
Barcelona’s Metropolitan Area is 5.150.000 (updated to 2006) in 3.925 km2 (1.515 ml2), as it is observed in... http://bcnip.blogsome.com/la-region-metropolitan-of-Barcelona (data 2005)
This article should not be a national contest about "who is biggest" but should give some factual information. I have taken out a lot of inaccuracies, which honesty, do not belong in Wikipedia. I was disappointed my well intended correction were reverted. Therefore I am now doing a more thorough job explaining every change below.
Please find below a list of explanations to my changes:
a) It is a list of urban areas. Therefore I think it is important there is a link to the definition of "urban area". Secondly, it is a list of urban areas and therefore it presents population figures for "urban areas", NOT cities. A city is something different. A city can be a political or administrative unit. A city can be a functional unit (for instance "Paris" being considerably larger than the "Ville de Paris"). In contrast, an "urban area" is a geographical observation. It can contain multiple cities (as it often does). It does not give a correct indication of the sizes of cities because the correlation with the size of the administrative unit is very low, and the correlation with the size of the functional city is also low. It is not because you have a large urban area, that the city is necessarily large. Take the example of Lille-Kortrijk: this is one very large Urban area but they are two cities, both cities even speak a different language and functionally "Kortrijk" is closer to Brussels than to Lille. Also, certain cities have green belts, other don't. These planning apsects reduce the correlation between the population size of a city and the population size of an urban area.
b) It is a fact that the table uses different input sources therefore why hide the truth about it in the introduction? Also, as there is no "harmonized" definition, we get into problems when the University of Avignon does not have the figure. The debates on this discussion page should make this extremely clear.
c) Not all the numbers have been grossed up because for some cities you take the most recent number available (also see above on this discussion page). Therefore it is wrong to suggest there is a consistent methodology when there is none.
d) To state you can just derive the 2005 population figures for urban areas in Europe by grossing up the 2000 numbers contradiscs you own statement above under the discussion "The Hague - Rotterdam". For instance I was not aware myself that The Hague and Rotterdam have become one singly urban area (and they are certainly not one city, just ask anybody from either The Hague or from Rotterdam) and yet this list is useful to show a geographical phenomenon (urban sprawl) but then you cannot assume it suddenly stops! In 2005 a number of urban areas may have become connected and a number of new ones created. Grossing up the 2000 numbers using 1990-2000 growth rates does not address this aspect at all.
e) An urban area does not need to correspond to one single administrative or functional city. It could contain multiple cities. When the urban sprawl in the Netherlands and Belgian continues, will we argue that the metropolitan area of Brussels equals the the urban area plus the satellites. No, a metropolitan area is a functional defintion, as you pointed out yourself. Therefore your comment that a metropolitan area is always larger than the urban area is wrong. I show the example Lille-Kortrijk. Tow very different cities, people speak differen lanaguages, ahev a different culture, live in different countries: one urban area --> yes (although I do not know where they touch); one metropolitan area --> no, certainly not. This regarding the first footnote. Now, if in the first footnote we admit this is not a list of metropolitan areas, then logically we need a second footnote to eplain it is also not a lost of cities. Same argument goes as above. Lille and Kortrijk or The Hague and Rotterdam: each pair represents a single urban area(at least according to this study), but the cities in these pairs remain very distinct at the same time.
f) You state that a LUZ has to be larger than the urban area. No, a LUZ can be smaller than an urban area (Rotterdam, Lille, etc, etc) and it can also be smaller than an administrative city (Marseille if I remember rightly). LUZ is a functional concept: does it act, behave as part of the city? Also it is important to point out to anybody consulting Wikipedia that Eurostat does not calculate urban zones and that the list you present is not harmonized.
g) Not a mjor point but a logical extension. If we explain the perceived cities may be larger than the urban areas, we should also state the percived cities can be smaller than the urban areas.
h) OK reinserted this paragraph. Some of the paragraph is the original comment about satellites etc. This was a relevant comment. I expand by eplaining where urban areas are useful but where they can be used wrongly. I think this is important certainly in the context of this article. This paragraph can certainly be expanded.
f) Regarding "see also". The reference to "Largest cities and metropolitan areas in the European Union (Eurostat)" should be named this way. The article is about Eurostat's analyzis of urban demographics and statistics in the EU. LUZ is a ottl they use and is described as such, but the topic of this article is not LUZ.
JGG 11:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that the population figures of the urban areas of London and Paris have been recently changed and it's false! Paris is #1 with 10.136 M inhabitants whereas London is #2 with 8.5 M, not the contraty!
Shouldnt it be included in Copenhagen as the Oresund Region? 84.219.27.211 17:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The population given here (1,749,154) is the metropolitan population, not the urban population, which is 1,168,270 according to the Glasgow article. I edited the article to this effect but it has since been reverted - is there a good reason for this? Lfh 16:31, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I know it's all been said - but this article is very confusing.
If I look here Largest cities of the European Union by population within city limits, and here List of metropolitan areas by population, and here Largest cities in the world by UN census, and here Largest European metropolitan areas and then this article, I get wildy different figures for places such as London and Paris. The fact seems to be that different countries use different definitions for population so some French university attempted to solve it with a convoluted theory (suprise, suprise - Paris comes out top). Why a single source is being used as the basis for yet another population list article is beyond me.
You just have to look at a map to see London has the 'largest urban area' (surely this article should be 'Most Populous Urban Area'?).
And the fact Tyne and Wear (Newcastle-Sunderland) is in this list just proves to me it has been cobbled together. Tyne and Wear, as a metropolitan area has a +1 million population, but it is NOT an urban area. The metropolitan area (especially Sunderland) includes dozens of outlying towns and villages that are seperated by farmland and green belt. The urban area of Sunderland has only 177,000 people (as specified by the UK Office of National Statistics), as opposed to the 280,000 within the met. borough which is the figure used here.
This article adds no value - only further confusion in already muddy area. John the mackem 21:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Template moved to top.-- Boson 21:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Geopolis research is no more available on University of Avignon servers. I think this is substancial problem for this article. Another problem is data in this article are hardly comparable since they used different sources for different cities and, e.g. for Prague, they used incorrectly data for population within city limits and not for urban area. If nobody will add main source to this article on which majority of figures here are based on, I think the article is due for abolishing.-- kokpit | talk 18:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia: "The city proper (Comune di Milano) has a population of 1,308,735 inhabitants (2004). The population of the urban area (Greater Milan, La Grande Milano), comprising the core of Lombardy, is estimated as of 2006 to be 4,280,820 people".......
the list show milan 3 798 000.....!!!
@Polaron
copy and paste from few lines over:
Correct Population of Italian cities - ONU 2004 according with the ONU censu bureau i change the Milano population of the URBAN AREA to the correct numeber of 4.007.000 inhabitants (2004). The same changes for Roma, Napoli and Torino. More information at the official site of ONU: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wup2003/2003WUPHighlights.pdf
official population of URBAN AREA OF MILAN. 4.007.000 in the year 2004. the last estimate for 2006 talks about 4.280.820.
i make the change. please don't correct another time if you don't have any other OFFICAL ESTIMATE better than UNITED NATION CENSUS BUREAU.
Thanks.
And so...what it means?! ISTAT never did a Metro Area cenus. NEVER. so..what do you want? you don't like United Nation Census Bureau? too partisan? not official? not good for you?
it's a your problem.
--
http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf
Urban Area of Milan: 5.000.000
Demographia World Urban Areas (World Agglomerations) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Samoano ( talk • contribs) 16:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be better to change the name in the list to "Brussels-Antwerp?" That way people will more easily understand the 4 million figure, and the cities are so distinct, both are well known, it just seems more logical. And pure technically the city of Antwerp is bigger than the city of Brussels anyway. -- Lamadude 21:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Surprisingly I found that the urban area of Copenhagen contains 1.426.000 citizens and the figur for Stockholm is 1.417.000 citizens. If we take into account that buildnings should not be more distant than 200 meters, Copenhagen only has 1.084.885 citizens. The figure of more than 1,4 million count in whole minicipalities even though only a little part would be included in C-urban area considering the 200 meter rule. The Stockholm figure is too high as well. Considering the rule it only has 1.252.020 citizens. Adding all municipalities which in a way form part of the urban area (like they did in Copenhagen) would give number of 1.761.125 citizens (from www.scb.se). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nirro ( talk • contribs) 15:36, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
There is an issue with placement of Gdansk (Tricity) on the list. According to reference documents it has nearly 1100000 of population. Polar says it is different category. Maybe yes maybe not. Nevertheless if we count only strict are of Tricity (Gdansk+ Gdynia+ Sopot+Rumia+Pruszcz Gdanski) we still are over 750 000. We need to find a way to include Gdansk-Tricity in the list Eon 15:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
What about Riga (Latvia)? The city itself has about 750 000 inhabitants... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.99.58.253 ( talk) 10:53, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
The title of this article is misleading. It does not follow official statistical Urban Area definitions in England and Wales. It should either:
1) be moved to something else (try "urbanized region" or "conurbation") to avoid confusion with the official English-and-Welsh English term "Urban Area"; or:
2) be altered to follow National Statistics' definitions for England and Wales (which at least attempts to be consistent (I won't go into its flaws now)). It has already been suggested above that the values represent original research. I would further suggest that the research quality is poor: it seems to have used some sort of metropolitan area figure for Liverpool-Manchester, rather than the individual Urban Area figures, whilst giving a figure ~300k *lower* than the Urban Area figure for Birmingham; this is clearly inconsistent, and seems totally absurd when you consider the relative compactnesses of the UAs (look at the maps) and the core city sizes. 82.36.26.70 ( talk) 22:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
The metropolitan area of Ostrava has approximately 1,165,000 inhabitants ( http://www.urbanaudit.org/CityProfiles.aspx). Why there isn't mentioned this information in your article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.99.155.174 ( talk) 20:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree with putting the Flemish Diamond in this list, because it ignores the fact that the urban area of Brussels continues into Walloon Brabant (which is not a part of Flanders) Therefore 2 things should change: -the population number should go up (since it does not count the Brussels urban area in Wallonia) -It should be renamed to something like "Brussels-Antwerp" and NOT Flemish diamond-- Lamadude ( talk) 13:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Therefore I changed the name back to Brussels-Antwerp, if somebody disagrees please say it here. Note that I do not say that the Flemish Diamond does not exist, I'm just saying it ignores Walloon Brabant, the borders are political rather than based on the actual urban area-- Lamadude ( talk) 13:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
The source is broken, there are missing cities... well, I have tagged it as incomplete, because it is incomplete. David ( talk) 07:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the previous post. There are a lot of areas missing. Eg. Budapest, Bucharest... Well, it even stops before reaching Austria, Vienna is missing too... -- Hi.ro ( talk) 08:09, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
There's no Krakow on the list, despite the fact that the city alone has over 750 000 residents. - 89.78.225.215 ( talk) 23:03, 28 December 2008 (UTC) I tried to add Krakow to the list as Krakow agglomeration is 1,450,000 according to Polish government statistics, however someone has removed it from the list.The city itself has 755,000 according to Wikipedia so I don't understand why it is not on the list. I hope someone could look into that. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.74.151.170 ( talk) 18:16, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Is there any? -- 82.155.44.197 ( talk) 16:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
All the links (outside of the non-notable Demographia) are dead. The methodology of the list is lacking, there are different standards for different countries and the list itself looks bizarre.
I think it gives undue weight to a fringe theory and as it can not be verified by any outside sources, I recommend deletion, but I am willing to wait a couple of weeks for some interested party to make it look a bit less loopy 59.38.32.5 ( talk) 05:48, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
The data vor vienna are too low. Even inside the City area there are around 1,7 Million people nowadays. [1]. The urban area _should_ be larger than the city area, which proves a quick look at the map. -- 95.91.144.161 ( talk) 11:24, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
References
The picture for Rome [4] is St. Peter's square in Vatican which is technically not part of Rome, not even part of Italy. Meursault2004 ( talk) 21:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Can anyone provide a good reason why Demographia.com should be considered a reliable source for anything on Wikipedia? Those wonderful lists of population figures that fill that site all come from..... where, exactly? Nothing is cited. In fact, Demographia is run by the controversial figure, Wendell Cox. Here's an article about said figure: http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_00014.htm I don't think this sounds like the kind of source we need around here. 98.231.124.3 ( talk) 17:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Why does someone keep changing the Demographia figure for the Paris urban area to around 12 million? The figure - plainly there in the document - is 10,858,000. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
90.24.160.203 (
talk)
21:57, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
As the list shows, the Ruhr Valley currently is the 3rd largest urban area in the EU but it is not represented by a photograph, instead someone put a photo of Lisbon, a beautiful city, but "only" ranked 12th. Could this be changed, please, or could a photo of the Ruhr Area be added? One of Essen or Düsseldorf representing the whole area would just be fine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.117.203.188 ( talk) 08:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
What is the Urban Audit? The Urban Audit provides European urban statistics for 258 cities across 27 European countries. It contains almost 300 statistical indicators presenting information on matters such as demography, society, the economy, the environment, transport, the information society and leisure. The Urban Audit was conducted at the initiative of the Directorate-General for Regional Policy at the European Commission, in cooperation with EUROSTAT and the national statistical offices of the 25 current Member States plus Bulgaria and Romania. Following a pilot project for the collection of comparable statistics and indicators for European cities the first full-scale European Urban Audit took place in 2003, for the then 15 countries of the European Union. In 2004 the project was extended to the 10 new Member States plus Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey. Under Eurostat coordination, the work of the Urban Audit involves all national statistical offices as well as some of the cities themselves. The second full-scale Urban Audit took place between 2006 and 2007, and involved 321 European cities in the 27 countries of the European Union, along with 36 additional cities in Norway, Switzerland and Turkey. Urban Audit Home Page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.109.47.146 ( talk) 18:50, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I updated the population numbers for the scandinavian capitals. Some of the numbers represented the metropolitan area and not the urban area. There are probably alot of other cities in this list with the same problem. I personally think that this list is pretty pointless unless you have the right numbers, wich I doubt that the majority of the cities on this list have. -- 83.191.245.141 ( talk) 21:45, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
why not limit the list to urban areas above 1 million, or extend to those above 500 000? 750 000 number looks kind of random. Rudi Maxer ( talk) 19:18, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Cracow is the second biggest city in Poland, why smaller cities from poland like łódź and gdańsk are in the list and cracow is not with population 1 468 427 ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.81.31 ( talk) 23:03, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w
here is an article, as i said before IT IS THE 2ND LARGEST CITY IN POLAND, why still smaller cities like łódź gdańsk are still higher then cracow with urban area 1 468 427 dated on 30 VI 2010?
the newest datas are here http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w#cite_note-4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.4.38.158 ( talk) 10:17, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obszar_metropolitalny
here are all datas with polish urban areas , 1st Katowice 2nd Warsaw 3rd Cracow.
i hope someone would check it and correct all . thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.4.38.158 ( talk) 10:25, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Statistics Sweden measures the Swedish urban areas every five year (... 1995, 2000, 2005, 2010). The figure in the list seems to be the same as 2005 estimate. This source shows the figures for 2010 [ [5]]. The population is currently at 1,372,565 (p9) and the desity at 3,597/km2 (p17). These figures are in conflict with the Demografia-figure of 1,285,000.
Interestingly the source says that they use figures from statics Sweden [ [6]] and have extrapolated this for the current year. But the growth rate has been much been much higher than they appearently have taken into account. It should be mentioned that the "Demografia" paper was released in april 2011, while the correct figures were published in june the sam year. So their figures weren't probably incorrect given the extrapolation procedure. Should we use the correct (higher) figures or should we use the obsolete estimtes from "demografia"? What do you think? Nirro ( talk) 16:03, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Warsaw haven't got population even close to 4 500 000, I have no idea who type so silly number. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw - whole Warsaw MA has about 2 600 000, so about 2 000 000 less than in the article... And second thing - the largest MA in Poland is Silesian MA (Katowice MA). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.196.54.12 ( talk) 20:22, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
It's listed twice. Zweifel ( talk) 01:20, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Currently, this list is in very poor shape. While it started out perfectly fine, it is now plagues by original research and errors up to the point where some studies are included twice on the list, with very different population figures. What some users obviously fail to understand is how to use sources. If we have a list, and this article is a list, then there is one source for the whole list. If you come from a city on the list and you think the figure is incorrect, it doesn't matter. If you surf around and find a source, even from your country's official statistics, that support your belief, it still doesn't matter. In lists of this kind, the most important thing is knowing that all data has been measured and treated in the same way. As long as we use one reliable source, there is no problem. When individual users add one source for a single city, it wreaks havoc with the list. Currently, the French city Toulouse is featured twice on the list, and the list has very little connection to the source, which is given as Demographia. We can always discuss which one source to use and I'm very open for any discussion on another source than Demographia if a convincing argument can be made for another source. What we under no circumstances can do is to have a list based on one source, but with exceptions for some cities. A list of this kind only makes sense when all cities are measured in the same way, and that can only be guaranteed by using the same source for all cities. Jeppiz ( talk) 19:36, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Another thing, the Cities from Russia, Ukraine and the Caucasus, are here for what reason? -- Pedro ( talk) 22:24, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Would it not be wiser to include non-EU urban areas in the list and rename the list, like in the list of metropolitan areas in Europe? Non-EU urban areas are mentioned later, I think it would be better to have a common list, to be able to compare areas in the entire Europe. In fact, the two largest European urban areas, Moscow and Istanbul, are outside the EU. -- Oddeivind ( talk) 11:22, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
The number of inhabitants of the urban area is approx. 2,3 mil, so much more than it says here. Also, the wole Randstad could be mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.81.107.38 ( talk) 20:12, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
You might confuse urban area with metropolitan area. But still, number is kinda small. Amsterdam wiki-article states urban area to be 1,2 million. Inkogn ( talk) 16:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Athens ? 3.200.000 perhaps in 1970... The criterion to identify the metropolitan areas isn't linked to population density rather than the extension ? If we consider the criteria of New York or Los Angeles, all the North of Italy from Milan to Venice (obviously without Alps and the lowlands) is a metropolitan area ? Surely in this area there is more population than New York. The criteria are perhaps administrative ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.74.222 ( talk) 08:21, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
According User: Subtropical-man Paris is more populous than London. He always insert the data of proper city. You can see the page Greater London Urban Area. User continue to edit warring with other user, but that isn't the population of urban area. -- Music&Co 17 February 2013 (UTC)
And.....his website sources is NOT ACCESSIBLE!!!!!!!! he talk about verificability!!!!!!!!! -- Music&Co ( talk) 10:53, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for my bed English for first thing (SONO ITALIANO!!) My trash English make sensation more than the Sanremo Music Festival Awards :) ihihihi However besides the United Nation Table, the true reality is that
I have ascertained the nature of source, and that the whole page concerns him to that source. I believe that however it need to specify this page that this table keeps in mind only of a source (what it is not of certain the only believable to the world..). I believe that need to specify..-- Music&Co ( talk) 17:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Dear Subtropical-man, skipping his antipathy (!!) and his conceitedness (!!) I don't intend to go further to this discussion. I don't need your explanations, also because I have a degree in geography and statistic;) can you say the same for you?!! however I wanted to contribute in the English version of these articles, but there is a coeso monopoly, I am very more satisfactory and exhaustive the Italian version, very more democratic and less dull. Stop.
For view only: it:Area metropolitana it:Lista di aree metropolitane del mondo per popolazione it:Aree metropolitane europee
Ciao.-- Music&Co ( talk) 20:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi all,
bobrayner ( talk) 18:50, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
The figure for the annual increase is nonsense. Largest cities of the European Union by population within city limits shows Greater London increasing by well over 1% annually, so unless hundreds of thousands have moved out of the commuter towns in the last decade something is awry. 213.106.154.57 ( talk) 15:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
The source to the UN page isn't available. Doubt certain figures. Boeing720 ( talk) 22:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Why on earth is the UK Government's official names for UK urban areas being reverted? Links to articles about each urban area are being removed in favour of links to individual cities within each urban area, including where multiple cities have separate LUZs within individual urban areas. What makes "Demographia" a better source for UK statistics than the Office for National Statistics? Fingerpuppet ( talk) 15:07, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Where is this consensus recorded? It does not appear to be on here. And the Demographia source uses ONS Urban Area data as its original source for the 2001 data - then estimates changes (with no description of methodology) from there without using the latest data available. So exactly how is the Demographia "urban area" different from the ONS Urban Area data? What is the methodology differences between the two data when the base 2001 data on Demographia is the ONS Urban Area data?
To demonstrate, the table below compares the 2001 census data for the three largest UK Urban Areas outside Greater London as given by the primary source, i.e. the ONS, and the base 2001 data given by Demographia.
Greater Manchester UA | 2,244,931 |
Demographia "Manchester" | 2,245,000 |
West Midlands UA | 2,284,093 |
Demographia "Birmingham" | 2,284,000 |
West Yorkshire UA | 1,499,465 |
Demographia "Leeds-Bradford" | 1,499,000 |
As can be seen, the base Demographia figures clearly use the ONS data, and then rounds them to the nearest thousand. This shows once and for all that the base data used by Demographia is the ONS Urban Area data (now superceded by the 2011 census data), and this nonsense about them being somehow different can be put to bed. Fingerpuppet ( talk) 18:54, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
The Urban Areas/Built-up areas are one attempt at defining urban areas, but we probably shouldn't use the ONS figures here because of Wikipedia:Synthesis. A separate part of the table with the data from the 2011 census, and possibly from other primary sources, would be bad as well because they'd be from different dates and Wikipedia:Synthesis again plus with the UK stuff they can just go to the relevant article on British Urban Areas. Linking to the names of the urban areas not the cities is not a bad idea. Does Demographia have a reason for not using the UK 2011 census data or are they just out of date? Eopsid ( talk) 08:29, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Why does an article titled "Largest urban areas of the European Union" need to have a section called "Non EU urban areas"? They are outside of the article's scope. -- Jaakko Sivonen ( talk) 19:51, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
Why has London only got a population growth of only 0.07%, when it is one of the fastest growing cities in Europe? -- Logicgold ( talk) 05:47, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Between 2011 and 2012 it's population grew by 1.3%. -- Logicgold ( talk) 23:14, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
The United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs provides estimates for the population of urban areas in 2015:
To be clear, these estimates are from 2014, for 2015.
Thoughts?
Rob984 (
talk)
16:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. I have no idea "Wien" is Vienna. Considering this is the English Wikipedia, the list should obviously be legible to English speakers. Rob984 ( talk) 01:39, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
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someone added this urban population of katowice, without any sources or references. 21mis ( talk) 15:42, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Cities bigger than 440.000 inhabitants have a strong growth as a constant pattern in comparison with the environment for "all" cities, from Russia, USA, Brazil or Europe, just check the cities list of those countries and their growth change with the years, and where is the knick of bigger regression, it's clear already in wiki list, in green and red colours.
The list of metropolitan areas must be then starting in 400.000 habitants.
And include the failing metropolitan areas from the different countries.
Areas with higher than 1000 hab./km2 have strong cost reduction in public service,...
Cities bigger than 10 million or over 5000 hab/km2 start to habe strong saturation cost. South Korea took a radical solution to avoid the Tokio saturation cost, and started around Seul a dense net of interlinked cities to avoid saturation.
-- 188.171.57.93 ( talk) 11:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
The list includes Oslo and Bergen, but not the large Swiss cities (at Demographia, one of the sources, Oslo is 813,000, and Zurich 815,000). The UK cities were removed on the day it left the EU, so the criteria seem to be "proper EU cities", in which case Oslo and Bergen should go. That would fit the page title, anyway. Peace Makes Plenty ( talk) 23:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
This list leans heavily on a report by Demographia which appears to be a small, US based, pro-car/anti public transport, conservative think tank. How reliable should we consider this source? Arnoutf ( talk) 09:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
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Which wiki figures are solid? They differ big time from other articles and have to be considered inconsequente. e.g. the inhabitant figure for Hamburg refer to the actual city figure where Frankfurt or Lisbon refer to the metropolitan area. Please sort that out asap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_Urban_Zone#Ranking_methodology — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.70.160.185 ( talk) 20:15, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
This list says that the urban population of Oslo is 715.000. I haver never seen this numbers been used before. Where is it from? The official urban population number from Statistics Norway (Statistisk sentralbyrå in Norwegian) is 906 681. See here for reference: http://www.ssb.no/beftett/tab-2011-06-17-01.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.26.91 ( talk) 22:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Budapest's urban area population number differs from the number indicated on the Budapest-Link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.171.252.5 ( talk) 16:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
Geopolis data are available again on http://e-geopolis.eu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.197.177.163 ( talk) 10:25, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Barcelona's Metropolitan Area is 5.150.000 (updated 2006) in 3.925 km2 (1.515 ml2), as it is observed in... http://bcnip.blogsome.com/la-region-metropolitana-de-Barcelona (data 2005)
Having lived near The Hague for several years until a year or so ago I am surprised to see it linked to Rotterdam as the fields and other open areas in between are a lot more than 200 m wide. What's the source, and do we need a list of municipalities (the actual unit will have to differ for each country of course) in each urban area? -- GPoss 07:27, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)
I find the population figures given are confusing, since they are very different from some other sources in Wikipedia itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_European_cities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_Cities_of_the_European_Union_by_population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_most_populous_cities_in_the_world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_of_the_world
I wanted to get the population figures of cities in the Netherlands and I was very much surprised by the figures given in this page. They don't even come near to the figures given in the pages I've listed above. The difference is very huge. I wonder why? Could someone clarify it to me. Thank you.
This article desperately needs to cite some sources! -- Khendon 20:12, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
ok
I have transformed the article into a list of largest urban areas of the European Union (as opposed to a list of urban areas of western Europe as it was before). This will be of more interest to people I think, and will enable comparisons with Largest cities of the European Union by population. Also, I put figures for 2005. Hardouin 23:00, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
What is your source for these? john k 01:36, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
And, also, citing sources should be done - if you haven't plagiarized, there shouldn't be problems with copyright. If you have plagiarized, you've plagiarized whether or not you cite sources. john k 01:49, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hardouin, do you have the data that would allow us to have more entries here? I'd personally like to see all urban areas of over 100,000 or so listed, if that's possible. john k 00:54, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't unfortunately. If I had all the data from Geopolis (University of Avignon) it would be very easy to list all urban areas over 100,000 inhabitants. Unfortunately I only have their data for some European countries. For other European countries, either the national statistical offices provide the urban areas data (such as in the UK), in which case it is not too difficult to find the data; either the national statistical offices do not provide data for urban areas (such as in Poland, Latvia, Czech Republic, and so on), and then it would be rather nightmarish to try to compute all the urban areas above 100,000 (it was already nightmarish enough when I had to do it for the urban areas above 750,000 inhabitants). Hardouin 01:06, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Geopolis seems strangely incomplete, as well, even for the countries covered - Ghent isn't listed for Belgium, for instance. Ah well... john k 04:00, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
No, no. Geopolis is complete. This is a very serious research group that I respect a lot. If you don't see a city, that means it is included into the urban area of another city. Ghent and Antwerp are included into the urban area of Brussels, because analyzing detailed maps and aerial pictures, Geopolis considers that these three cities are now linked together by their suburbs. In 1990 it was not the case yet. In 2000 they were linked. When I made the list, in the case of Belgium I used the 1990 definition though. The reason for this is that Geopolis uses the 200 meters concept to determine whether something is part of an urban area or not. In very dense countries though, a 50 meters concept would make more sense. As things goes, with a 200 meters definition, someday there will be a huge urban area all the way from Rotterdam to Stutgart along the Rhine Valley. With a 50 meters definition, you are more conservative, so Brussels, Antwerp, and Ghent urban areas are still separate. The UK National Statistics also uses the 50 meters definition, which makes sense in the case of the highly dense England. So I considered Brussels, Antwerp, and Ghent to be still separate, as in 1990, and I also considered Ruhr Center, Ruhr South, and Cologne to be still separate, as in 1990 (Geopolis considers that these three linked up in 2000, and are now the largest urban area of Europe, which Geopolis calls "Ruhr"). Hardouin 22:59, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Okay, gotcha. Perhaps we could move more conservative and got all the areas with >500,000, though... john k 23:44, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It is said in the text: "Urban areas are contiguous built-up areas where houses are not more than 200 meters apart (discounting rivers, parks, roads, industrial fields, etc.)." So why is there a "Cologne-Bonn area" with 2.5 Mio and a "South Ruhr-Düsseldorf-Wuppertal" area with 2.4 Mio? Between Cologne and Bonn there is a gap that really isn't urban. Even in Largest European metropolitan areas the Cologne metropolitan area has "only" 1.8 Mio. Same with "South Ruhr-Düsseldorf-Wuppertal". Do you really want to add the villages of Bergisches Land ( Berg (German region)) to an urban area? It is said in the text: "Figures here are accurate, unlike rough estimates of European metropolitan areas than can be found online." I would say figures here are much less accurate than in most other sources.
Two comments:
1- about the UK, it can't be helped, as 50 meters is the definition used by UK statistics. However, this plays only at the margin. With a 200 meters definition, UK urban areas would have population 10% to at maximum 20% higher. It's not like they would double their population! Also, be aware that this problem happens with most stastitics. Definitions for anything from GDP, to interest rate, to urban area, to literacy rate, you name it, definitions change from country to country, and sometimes even from decade to decade within a given country, so that someone comparing statistics should always be aware of a certain margin of error. The only difference is that here, I have explicitly listed the differences in definition, whereas in most stastics lists, nobody would care to tell you there are definition differences. E.g.: when you check a list of countries according to literacy rates, usually people don't care to tell you that the definition of literacy rate varies a lot from country to country. So let's not be naive. Pure exact data do not exist. The best we can do is to approximate reality.
2- about the Ruhr, the definitions come from Geopolis, and trust me they have done their homework. So if they say Bonn and Cologne are linked into a single urban area, I trust them. Check the English part of their website, they will explain you why you may perceive Bonn and Cologne as not linked together, while in fact they are. Same thing about South Ruhr.
Hardouin 01:03, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Another thing: about the UK and the 50 meters definition, I have data for London and Birmingham in 2000. In 2000, with a 50 meters definition the urban area of London had 8,250,000 inhabitants, whereas with a 200 meters definition it had 9,160,000 inhabitants. So you see that's only an 11% difference. For Birmingham, with a 50 meters definition there were 2,285,000 inhabitants, whereas with a 200 meters definition there were 2,456,000 inhabitants. That's a difference of only 7.5%. Also, remember that in a very dense country like England, a 50 meters definition makes more sense than a 200 meters definition. With a 200 meters definition, Manchester and Liverpool would be joined into a single urban area. Does it really make sense? Finally, I would also like to point this: in non dense countries like Spain or France, whether we use 50 meters or 200 meters makes no difference. I reckon with a 50 meters definition the population of Madrid or Paris urban areas would be only 1% smaller or so. So in fact, it's not so much that there's a bias agaisnt England with the 50 meters definiton, but it's more like there would be a bias FOR England with a 200 meters definition applied to England. The UK National Statistics understand that I suspect, and that's why they use the more conservative 50 meters definition. Hardouin 13:09, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In the section titled "Non-EU countries of Western Europe", you omitted to include a qualifying urban area: Zagreb. Croatia is the only Western country in Europe (due to its Roman Catholic affinity) that does not belong to either the EU or EFTA. Nevertheless, its capital should be included in this short list along with Zurich and Oslo. -- Francisco 14:30, 07 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It used to be "Western Europe", a rather vague definition. Now it's about the European Union. My question is: why can't it be about Europe, period? Isn't that a tiny bit more *sane* than first pretending to talk about the EU alone, and then adding an arbitrary section about non-EU urban areas of so-called "Western Europe" that'd have been included in the list, if only they had been member states?
Instead of the what-ifs, why don't we make this page be about Europe, full-stop? I'm guessing that there's only one major urban area that falls right in the boundary of Europe and non-Europe, namely Istanbul. Should be no problem to include it with a footnote that it's located partially in Asia as well. Aris Katsaris 03:38, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
This page is not about the whole of Europe because it is virtually impossible to find serious data for urban areas of the European part of Russia. Besides, where does Europe stop? Is Ekaterinburg a European city? What about Astrakhan? Using the EU is convenient, and at least the subject is precisely defined. Hardouin 12:50, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Given the amount of criticism directed at the list, I feel compelled to say a few words about statistics and accuracy. Statistics are not rocket science! When checking statistics lists such as the one in the article here, people should always be aware that there is a margin of error. As a rule of thumb, I would consider a 10% margin of error a safe bet. So when we find in the list that Munich is the 23rd largest urban area of the EU, what it tells us is that Munich is approximately ranking in the early 20s (could be 21st largest, could be 25th). What it tells us is that it is definitely not in the top 10 of the largest urban areas of the EU, and it is not ranking in the 50s or 60s ranks either. With a margin of error in mind, I think what we can say for sure from the list is that Paris is the largest urban area of the EU, and London is the 2nd largest urban area of the EU. Beyond that, all other urban areas could possibly be a few ranks up or down.
This uncertainty of statistics is found in any context. Even official census data, which most people always take for granted (as if it was the Gospel!), have themselves margins of errors. E.g.: at the 2000 US Census, the US Census Bureau said the population of the US was 281,421,906 (on April 1, 2000). This is the figure you find everywhere. In fact, nobody knows what was the population of the US on April 1, 2000. It could have been 275 million, it could have been 290 million. What the figure tell us is that it was definitely not 100 million, and it was definitely not 500 million. Definitions for censuses also change from country to country. In some countries, university students are counted as inhabitants of the city where the university is located, while in other countries they are counted as inhabitants of the city they come from. Is a Harvard student from Arkansas an inhabitant of Massachusetts? or an inhabitant of Arkansas? US Census Bureau will say one thing, other countries will say other things. As for military personnel, some countries count them in the city they come from, whereas other counties count them in the city where they are stationed. You may think this is a detail, but in a country like China where there are about 2.5 million people in the army, that can make a big difference. Yet in other countries, there are several definitions as to how people should be counted when a census is conducted, and some countries such as France produce different series of census data, based on different definitions, so that if you don't know the subtleties of these definitions, you may screw things badly. E.g.: at the 1999 census, the population of the city of Toulouse was 390,350 with definition #1, 398,423 with definition #2, and 389,496 with definition #3. In the French case, it is data with definition #1 that should be used when making international comparisons, but many Wikipedians ignore this, so I have found time and again the population of French cities on Wikipedia using definition #2, which increases the size of the population.
When it comes to statistics related to the economy, things get even more crazy. Even statistics coming from respectable institution such as World Bank of IMF should be taken with a lot of caution. For instance, the ranking of countries according to their GDP is published every year by the World Bank, and it is religiously reported here at Wikipedia every year. Problem is, different countries have widely different ways to calculate GDP, so that we should at least consider a 10% margin of error for the numbers in that list. For instance, some countries include government services (such as teaching delivered in state schools) in the GDP, while other don't. And the US is notoriously famous to present inflated GDP figures due to the definition they use. The World Bank list says that UK is the 4th largest economy in the world, France is the 5th, and Italy is the 6th. However, figures for these three countries are pretty close, and nobody knows for sure which is 4th, which is 5th, and which is 6th. For instance, services are overvalued in the UK, and calling a locksmith to open your door will cost you about £250 in London, but just £75 in Paris (I know that from experience!), so that the exact same job performed by a locksmith will add £275 to the UK GDP, but only £75 to the French GDP. As for Italy, it is estimated that at least 20 to 30% of the economy goes unreported, the so-called "black economy", in order to evade taxation, so that the GDP of Italy is considerably underestimated. So it is better to say that the economies of UK, France, and Italy have roughly the same size. But nobody will use conditional or "roughly", people love rankings and certainty, that's why no later than last week I heard Charles Kennedy, the leader of the Liberal Democrats in the UK, saying on TV that "we should be proud to be the fourth largest economy in the world". Unfortunately, there's no certainty in statistics I'm afraid. So next time please be a bit more indulgent when you criticize the list of largest urban areas of the EU.
Hardouin 14:35, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Figures at Geopolis are for 2000. Figures here are for 2005. For Paris, figures have also been revised up due to latest French census data from 2004. For Essen I used the 1990 definition of Geopolis, not the 2000 definition. Every 10 years they update the limits of urban areas. Problem is, in very dense areas like the Ruhr, the 200 meters concept may lead to crazy results. So their Essen figure for 2000 is actually a vast urban area extending all the way from Essen down to Cologne and Bonn. There are already people here critizing the fact that Bonn and Cologne are included into a single urban area, now just imagine what they would say if we included everything from Essen to Bonn into a single urban area! So I prefered to use the 1990 definition, which is more conservative, because it distinguishes a Essen-Ruhr central area, distinct from a Düsseldorf-Wuppertal-south Ruhr urban area, distinct from a Cologne-Bonn urban area (whereas the 2000 definition gathers all of them together). Again, this kind of problems happen in very dense areas, so we will face such problems with: England, Ruhr, Belgium, and Netherlands. For Belgium I also used the 1990 definition (otherwise we would have a single Brussels-Antwerp urban area!). The rest of Europe is not as troublesome. Hardouin 23:09, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It's a tricky point I agree. Just think that if we use the 2000 definition for Belgium, we end up with a Brussels urban area of 4 million inhabitants! Nowhere you will find that Brussels has 4 million inhabitants. So what people would think in terms of the credibility of our list? I think we could rationalize it by saying we use conservative definitions (50 meters, 1990 definitions) in very dense territories, and normal definitions (200 meters, 2000 definitions) in less dense territories. Also, let me correct you on one thing: its not the data that are 15 year old, its the definitions. That's a big difference. Hardouin 00:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Actually you're completely wrong on that. The urban area of Paris is much much more densily built-up than the Ruhr (3120 inh. per km² for Paris urban area vs. 1480 inh. per km² for the 2000 definition Ruhr-Cologne-Bonn urban area). In fact the densities found in the urban area of Paris are the highest in Europe (Russia excluded). Even if you take the whole Île-de-France région, which is much larger than the urban area of Paris, the density is still 938 inh. per km², compared to only 530 inh. per km² in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. Hardouin 01:43, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It would seem like it would be ideal to just use the 50 meter number throughout, if possible. That would insure non-crazy results in the denser areas, and probably wouldn't change the less dense areas so much. But this might be difficult to actually do. john k 02:20, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
To the users who always keep upgrading Tricity in the list: 1,041,000 inhabitants is a figure for the METROPOLITAN AREA. Here, this is a list of populations of URBAN AREAS, and the population of the urban area of Gdansk-Gdynia is only 849,000 inhabitants. You get the distinction? Re-read the introduction of the article if you're confused. And stop making incorrect edits! Also, it's better to leave the name Gdansk-Gdynia. Most people are not familiar with the name "Tricity". Hardouin 11:20, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Please give me any serious source that urban areas in Tricity are smaller then metropolitan areas and actually match borders of the cities: Gdansk, Gdynia and Sopot? Cautious 15:24, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Cautious, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and what the difference is between an urban area and a metropolitan area. Quit reverting the article, and quit accusing Hardouin of vandalism. john k 15:57, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
So what is the difference? According to Polish legal stand, thera are urban and rural communities POINT. How you are going to measure Polish urban/metropolitan areas population if these meanings have no equivalents in Poland?? The problem of Hardoiun is that he has found some statistical data about Pomeranian Voivodship, where the area is divided on Gdansk-Gdynia-Sopot, Gdansk region and Slupsk region. Some small brain clerk in stat office has made this division that actually makes no sense except statistical. One would probably buy a house in Zukowo only bacuase it is very tidy town few kilometers from Tricity Cricle Highway so you can reach at ease every point of Tricity. However, Zukowo is town in Gdansk region. Between Zukowo borders and Gdansk borders there is a gap, officially classified as rural area. Nevertheless, there is house after house on the connecting highway, so according to definition from the article both towns belong to the same urban area. Am I correct? Cautious 20:59, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have deleted edit by anonymous user who doesn't know what he/she is talking about, obviously. In the the list , the figures for Italian cities are not the provincial population figures. They are strictly population figures for Italian urban areas, as calculated by the Geopolis research group, who have done their research carefully, as was explained many times here. Hardouin 00:29, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Eon user should show us the official documents from where his new figure for the Gdansk-Gdynia urban area comes, before we actually modify the figure in the list. Then after we see the documents, the other users will be able to have their say on this, and if all agree we'll make the change. Hardouin 00:36, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You are welcome:
I myself made necessary calculations (see Tricity article). I added up populations of all urban "gminas" that consist one continous urban area. Since my calculations are already in place, I am going to restore my edits and I will wait for remarks to adjust the numbers, if there is serious reason for it. 05:17, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The whole tone of this article is that it's perfect and beyond dispute, but this is just plain wrong. Settlement patterns are infinitely complex and these are still just one person's numbers. Just the UK figures throw up all sorts of problems and will seriously mislead people. How on earth does Birkenhead merit dual billing with Liverpool while Bradford (a real city in its own right, which Birkenhead isn't) is treated as a mere suburb of Leeds that isn't worth mentioning. Osomec 05:01, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
The article gives figures for 2005 for various urban areas in the United Kingdom. What is the source of these figures? The Office of National Statistics source quoted in the References section of the article gives figures for 2001 and these figures differ from those quoted in the article. The University of Avignon source in the Reference section showed the UK page as a work in progress and did not appear to list any figures for the UK at all. Thanks. Valiantis 19:32, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
At this list the urban area of Nuernberg has a Population of 756.000.
And here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_European_cities
Why that? I think the Population of 1.050.000 is the correct value.
according with the ONU censu bureau i change the Milano population of the URBAN AREA to the correct numeber of 4.007.000 inhabitants (2004). The same changes for Roma, Napoli and Torino. More information at the official site of ONU: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wup2003/2003WUPHighlights.pdf
I saw in history that this is a list of Urban Areas not Metropolitan areas, portuguese law doesn't recognize "urban areas" only "Metropolitan Areas" if you delete Braga you also must delete Lisbon and Oporto. So it's hipocrisy deleting Braga.
The list makes no sense what so ever and I going to suggest it for deletion... the definition that the writer tries to explain is vague and totally subjective. I see no reason for this list to exist... it should be replaced prehaps by a list that contains a collection- not neccesarily ranked of the metro populations of Europe's largest cities... This list seems totally random and not very beleivable - there are some thing here that I find hard to accept- why does the Paris urban area encompass basically all of the Ile de France region, a huge region including urban, surburban, and even rural areas, while London here only includes the areas inside the so-called Green Belt when the city's surbuban sprawl is far larger. Or Munich and Zurich, Munich's urban population is almost identical to the city's population, although the city is surrounded by densely population surburban sprawl, while nearby Zurich includes the city and just about all of the surrounding region.. I don't get it - the method used for this list is nonsense. I think this is an ideal candidate for deletion.
Oh, and if you don't trust the University of Avignon, you can also check the World Urbanization Prospects report pulished by the United Nations in 2003 ( [3]), look at Table A.12, and you'll see that the UN figures are strikingly similar to those in the article here. So if the list "makes no sense what so ever", is "totally random", and "not very believable", then feel free to call the United Nations statisticians to let them know that their data are nonsense and that you know better. Hardouin 04:02, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Metropolitan Gothenburg has a population of almost 850,000. Yet, it's not on the list. Would someone please add it?
Edit: Forget this post. Didn't see that the list just included the urban area.
In fact it is like that. The Urban Area of Gothenburg is larger than the statistics says. I would say that the urban area has at least 800 000 inhabitants. First they do not count large part of the city of Gothenburg. Like Torslanda, Rödbo, Säve, Tuve and Billdal and also the southern arcipelago that is a part of the city. Then there are parts that are emerged with the city that belongs to other municipalties that do not count. Like Surte-Bohus were you actually can see the Lövgärdet as you see Surte Lövgärdet is on a hill and below there is Surte. . Then is Kungälv only separated from the city of Göteborg by a river and it is right to the oposite of Surte. Then Billdal is not counted because there is a park between Billdall and the statistical urban area of Gothenburg. Billdal lies in both Kungsbacka and Gothenburg. Were the Onsala peninsula and central Kungsbacka is an urban area connected to Gothenburg. Then is Lerum connected to the urban area and also Öckerö that is right to the opposite of Torslanda. We could also say that Alingsås is connected to Lerum. Then there are probably less than 200 metres between the houses along all Göta river up to Lilla Edet. I would say that the Göteborg urban area has at least 800 000 people. The thing is that those that work on the bureau of statistics in Sweden are hostile towards Gothenburg and want it to appear as small and insignificant as possible. Thats why they do this. So it is obviously not unbiased.
If the latest figures available are for 2000 those should be the ones used. Extrapolation is original research and has no place here. Merchbow 07:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Your definition of metropolitan areas doesn't stack up for Newcastle - Sunderland as there's a large greenbelt (much more than 200m) between them. See http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=54.904054,-1.479721&spn=0.143307,0.241356
Newcastle - Gateshead - North Tyneside - South Tyneside is acceptable though at around 750000. 85.210.2.238 13:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
It is probably due to Sunderland being part of the Metropolitan County of Tyne & Wear which gives the impression it is part of the same urban area (although statistically is). Looking on the map it is clear there is a definate green wedge of non-urbanisation between Sunderland and South Sheilds in the north, however to the immediate west of Sunderland is Washington which is part of the City pf Sunderland, and Washington is connected to Gateshead through its urban area. So Sunderland is part of the Newcastle urban area through this way. I never fully understood why it is the Newcastle urban area and not the Sunderland urban area, after all Sunderland is a more populous district.
Another thing that bothers me is the UK having metropolitan areas at all, surely a country so densely populated, that all metro areas become co-terminus and are part of the same area of influence.
Shouldn't it be called "Tyneside-Wearside"? It includes many areas which are neither Newcastle nor Sunderland. Lfh 14:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
added new population of Urban Area of Milan in the year 2006 by Italian Governement, the Demographia Group and World Gazzetter. http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=1142792485&men=gcis&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-108&srt=pnan&col=aohdq&va=&pt=a http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf
Barcelona’s Metropolitan Area is 5.150.000 (updated to 2006) in 3.925 km2 (1.515 ml2), as it is observed in... http://bcnip.blogsome.com/la-region-metropolitan-of-Barcelona (data 2005)
This article should not be a national contest about "who is biggest" but should give some factual information. I have taken out a lot of inaccuracies, which honesty, do not belong in Wikipedia. I was disappointed my well intended correction were reverted. Therefore I am now doing a more thorough job explaining every change below.
Please find below a list of explanations to my changes:
a) It is a list of urban areas. Therefore I think it is important there is a link to the definition of "urban area". Secondly, it is a list of urban areas and therefore it presents population figures for "urban areas", NOT cities. A city is something different. A city can be a political or administrative unit. A city can be a functional unit (for instance "Paris" being considerably larger than the "Ville de Paris"). In contrast, an "urban area" is a geographical observation. It can contain multiple cities (as it often does). It does not give a correct indication of the sizes of cities because the correlation with the size of the administrative unit is very low, and the correlation with the size of the functional city is also low. It is not because you have a large urban area, that the city is necessarily large. Take the example of Lille-Kortrijk: this is one very large Urban area but they are two cities, both cities even speak a different language and functionally "Kortrijk" is closer to Brussels than to Lille. Also, certain cities have green belts, other don't. These planning apsects reduce the correlation between the population size of a city and the population size of an urban area.
b) It is a fact that the table uses different input sources therefore why hide the truth about it in the introduction? Also, as there is no "harmonized" definition, we get into problems when the University of Avignon does not have the figure. The debates on this discussion page should make this extremely clear.
c) Not all the numbers have been grossed up because for some cities you take the most recent number available (also see above on this discussion page). Therefore it is wrong to suggest there is a consistent methodology when there is none.
d) To state you can just derive the 2005 population figures for urban areas in Europe by grossing up the 2000 numbers contradiscs you own statement above under the discussion "The Hague - Rotterdam". For instance I was not aware myself that The Hague and Rotterdam have become one singly urban area (and they are certainly not one city, just ask anybody from either The Hague or from Rotterdam) and yet this list is useful to show a geographical phenomenon (urban sprawl) but then you cannot assume it suddenly stops! In 2005 a number of urban areas may have become connected and a number of new ones created. Grossing up the 2000 numbers using 1990-2000 growth rates does not address this aspect at all.
e) An urban area does not need to correspond to one single administrative or functional city. It could contain multiple cities. When the urban sprawl in the Netherlands and Belgian continues, will we argue that the metropolitan area of Brussels equals the the urban area plus the satellites. No, a metropolitan area is a functional defintion, as you pointed out yourself. Therefore your comment that a metropolitan area is always larger than the urban area is wrong. I show the example Lille-Kortrijk. Tow very different cities, people speak differen lanaguages, ahev a different culture, live in different countries: one urban area --> yes (although I do not know where they touch); one metropolitan area --> no, certainly not. This regarding the first footnote. Now, if in the first footnote we admit this is not a list of metropolitan areas, then logically we need a second footnote to eplain it is also not a lost of cities. Same argument goes as above. Lille and Kortrijk or The Hague and Rotterdam: each pair represents a single urban area(at least according to this study), but the cities in these pairs remain very distinct at the same time.
f) You state that a LUZ has to be larger than the urban area. No, a LUZ can be smaller than an urban area (Rotterdam, Lille, etc, etc) and it can also be smaller than an administrative city (Marseille if I remember rightly). LUZ is a functional concept: does it act, behave as part of the city? Also it is important to point out to anybody consulting Wikipedia that Eurostat does not calculate urban zones and that the list you present is not harmonized.
g) Not a mjor point but a logical extension. If we explain the perceived cities may be larger than the urban areas, we should also state the percived cities can be smaller than the urban areas.
h) OK reinserted this paragraph. Some of the paragraph is the original comment about satellites etc. This was a relevant comment. I expand by eplaining where urban areas are useful but where they can be used wrongly. I think this is important certainly in the context of this article. This paragraph can certainly be expanded.
f) Regarding "see also". The reference to "Largest cities and metropolitan areas in the European Union (Eurostat)" should be named this way. The article is about Eurostat's analyzis of urban demographics and statistics in the EU. LUZ is a ottl they use and is described as such, but the topic of this article is not LUZ.
JGG 11:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that the population figures of the urban areas of London and Paris have been recently changed and it's false! Paris is #1 with 10.136 M inhabitants whereas London is #2 with 8.5 M, not the contraty!
Shouldnt it be included in Copenhagen as the Oresund Region? 84.219.27.211 17:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The population given here (1,749,154) is the metropolitan population, not the urban population, which is 1,168,270 according to the Glasgow article. I edited the article to this effect but it has since been reverted - is there a good reason for this? Lfh 16:31, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I know it's all been said - but this article is very confusing.
If I look here Largest cities of the European Union by population within city limits, and here List of metropolitan areas by population, and here Largest cities in the world by UN census, and here Largest European metropolitan areas and then this article, I get wildy different figures for places such as London and Paris. The fact seems to be that different countries use different definitions for population so some French university attempted to solve it with a convoluted theory (suprise, suprise - Paris comes out top). Why a single source is being used as the basis for yet another population list article is beyond me.
You just have to look at a map to see London has the 'largest urban area' (surely this article should be 'Most Populous Urban Area'?).
And the fact Tyne and Wear (Newcastle-Sunderland) is in this list just proves to me it has been cobbled together. Tyne and Wear, as a metropolitan area has a +1 million population, but it is NOT an urban area. The metropolitan area (especially Sunderland) includes dozens of outlying towns and villages that are seperated by farmland and green belt. The urban area of Sunderland has only 177,000 people (as specified by the UK Office of National Statistics), as opposed to the 280,000 within the met. borough which is the figure used here.
This article adds no value - only further confusion in already muddy area. John the mackem 21:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Template moved to top.-- Boson 21:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Geopolis research is no more available on University of Avignon servers. I think this is substancial problem for this article. Another problem is data in this article are hardly comparable since they used different sources for different cities and, e.g. for Prague, they used incorrectly data for population within city limits and not for urban area. If nobody will add main source to this article on which majority of figures here are based on, I think the article is due for abolishing.-- kokpit | talk 18:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia: "The city proper (Comune di Milano) has a population of 1,308,735 inhabitants (2004). The population of the urban area (Greater Milan, La Grande Milano), comprising the core of Lombardy, is estimated as of 2006 to be 4,280,820 people".......
the list show milan 3 798 000.....!!!
@Polaron
copy and paste from few lines over:
Correct Population of Italian cities - ONU 2004 according with the ONU censu bureau i change the Milano population of the URBAN AREA to the correct numeber of 4.007.000 inhabitants (2004). The same changes for Roma, Napoli and Torino. More information at the official site of ONU: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wup2003/2003WUPHighlights.pdf
official population of URBAN AREA OF MILAN. 4.007.000 in the year 2004. the last estimate for 2006 talks about 4.280.820.
i make the change. please don't correct another time if you don't have any other OFFICAL ESTIMATE better than UNITED NATION CENSUS BUREAU.
Thanks.
And so...what it means?! ISTAT never did a Metro Area cenus. NEVER. so..what do you want? you don't like United Nation Census Bureau? too partisan? not official? not good for you?
it's a your problem.
--
http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf
Urban Area of Milan: 5.000.000
Demographia World Urban Areas (World Agglomerations) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Samoano ( talk • contribs) 16:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be better to change the name in the list to "Brussels-Antwerp?" That way people will more easily understand the 4 million figure, and the cities are so distinct, both are well known, it just seems more logical. And pure technically the city of Antwerp is bigger than the city of Brussels anyway. -- Lamadude 21:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Surprisingly I found that the urban area of Copenhagen contains 1.426.000 citizens and the figur for Stockholm is 1.417.000 citizens. If we take into account that buildnings should not be more distant than 200 meters, Copenhagen only has 1.084.885 citizens. The figure of more than 1,4 million count in whole minicipalities even though only a little part would be included in C-urban area considering the 200 meter rule. The Stockholm figure is too high as well. Considering the rule it only has 1.252.020 citizens. Adding all municipalities which in a way form part of the urban area (like they did in Copenhagen) would give number of 1.761.125 citizens (from www.scb.se). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nirro ( talk • contribs) 15:36, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
There is an issue with placement of Gdansk (Tricity) on the list. According to reference documents it has nearly 1100000 of population. Polar says it is different category. Maybe yes maybe not. Nevertheless if we count only strict are of Tricity (Gdansk+ Gdynia+ Sopot+Rumia+Pruszcz Gdanski) we still are over 750 000. We need to find a way to include Gdansk-Tricity in the list Eon 15:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
What about Riga (Latvia)? The city itself has about 750 000 inhabitants... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.99.58.253 ( talk) 10:53, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
The title of this article is misleading. It does not follow official statistical Urban Area definitions in England and Wales. It should either:
1) be moved to something else (try "urbanized region" or "conurbation") to avoid confusion with the official English-and-Welsh English term "Urban Area"; or:
2) be altered to follow National Statistics' definitions for England and Wales (which at least attempts to be consistent (I won't go into its flaws now)). It has already been suggested above that the values represent original research. I would further suggest that the research quality is poor: it seems to have used some sort of metropolitan area figure for Liverpool-Manchester, rather than the individual Urban Area figures, whilst giving a figure ~300k *lower* than the Urban Area figure for Birmingham; this is clearly inconsistent, and seems totally absurd when you consider the relative compactnesses of the UAs (look at the maps) and the core city sizes. 82.36.26.70 ( talk) 22:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
The metropolitan area of Ostrava has approximately 1,165,000 inhabitants ( http://www.urbanaudit.org/CityProfiles.aspx). Why there isn't mentioned this information in your article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.99.155.174 ( talk) 20:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree with putting the Flemish Diamond in this list, because it ignores the fact that the urban area of Brussels continues into Walloon Brabant (which is not a part of Flanders) Therefore 2 things should change: -the population number should go up (since it does not count the Brussels urban area in Wallonia) -It should be renamed to something like "Brussels-Antwerp" and NOT Flemish diamond-- Lamadude ( talk) 13:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Therefore I changed the name back to Brussels-Antwerp, if somebody disagrees please say it here. Note that I do not say that the Flemish Diamond does not exist, I'm just saying it ignores Walloon Brabant, the borders are political rather than based on the actual urban area-- Lamadude ( talk) 13:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
The source is broken, there are missing cities... well, I have tagged it as incomplete, because it is incomplete. David ( talk) 07:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the previous post. There are a lot of areas missing. Eg. Budapest, Bucharest... Well, it even stops before reaching Austria, Vienna is missing too... -- Hi.ro ( talk) 08:09, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
There's no Krakow on the list, despite the fact that the city alone has over 750 000 residents. - 89.78.225.215 ( talk) 23:03, 28 December 2008 (UTC) I tried to add Krakow to the list as Krakow agglomeration is 1,450,000 according to Polish government statistics, however someone has removed it from the list.The city itself has 755,000 according to Wikipedia so I don't understand why it is not on the list. I hope someone could look into that. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.74.151.170 ( talk) 18:16, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Is there any? -- 82.155.44.197 ( talk) 16:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
All the links (outside of the non-notable Demographia) are dead. The methodology of the list is lacking, there are different standards for different countries and the list itself looks bizarre.
I think it gives undue weight to a fringe theory and as it can not be verified by any outside sources, I recommend deletion, but I am willing to wait a couple of weeks for some interested party to make it look a bit less loopy 59.38.32.5 ( talk) 05:48, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
The data vor vienna are too low. Even inside the City area there are around 1,7 Million people nowadays. [1]. The urban area _should_ be larger than the city area, which proves a quick look at the map. -- 95.91.144.161 ( talk) 11:24, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
References
The picture for Rome [4] is St. Peter's square in Vatican which is technically not part of Rome, not even part of Italy. Meursault2004 ( talk) 21:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Can anyone provide a good reason why Demographia.com should be considered a reliable source for anything on Wikipedia? Those wonderful lists of population figures that fill that site all come from..... where, exactly? Nothing is cited. In fact, Demographia is run by the controversial figure, Wendell Cox. Here's an article about said figure: http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_00014.htm I don't think this sounds like the kind of source we need around here. 98.231.124.3 ( talk) 17:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Why does someone keep changing the Demographia figure for the Paris urban area to around 12 million? The figure - plainly there in the document - is 10,858,000. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
90.24.160.203 (
talk)
21:57, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
As the list shows, the Ruhr Valley currently is the 3rd largest urban area in the EU but it is not represented by a photograph, instead someone put a photo of Lisbon, a beautiful city, but "only" ranked 12th. Could this be changed, please, or could a photo of the Ruhr Area be added? One of Essen or Düsseldorf representing the whole area would just be fine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.117.203.188 ( talk) 08:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
What is the Urban Audit? The Urban Audit provides European urban statistics for 258 cities across 27 European countries. It contains almost 300 statistical indicators presenting information on matters such as demography, society, the economy, the environment, transport, the information society and leisure. The Urban Audit was conducted at the initiative of the Directorate-General for Regional Policy at the European Commission, in cooperation with EUROSTAT and the national statistical offices of the 25 current Member States plus Bulgaria and Romania. Following a pilot project for the collection of comparable statistics and indicators for European cities the first full-scale European Urban Audit took place in 2003, for the then 15 countries of the European Union. In 2004 the project was extended to the 10 new Member States plus Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey. Under Eurostat coordination, the work of the Urban Audit involves all national statistical offices as well as some of the cities themselves. The second full-scale Urban Audit took place between 2006 and 2007, and involved 321 European cities in the 27 countries of the European Union, along with 36 additional cities in Norway, Switzerland and Turkey. Urban Audit Home Page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.109.47.146 ( talk) 18:50, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I updated the population numbers for the scandinavian capitals. Some of the numbers represented the metropolitan area and not the urban area. There are probably alot of other cities in this list with the same problem. I personally think that this list is pretty pointless unless you have the right numbers, wich I doubt that the majority of the cities on this list have. -- 83.191.245.141 ( talk) 21:45, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
why not limit the list to urban areas above 1 million, or extend to those above 500 000? 750 000 number looks kind of random. Rudi Maxer ( talk) 19:18, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Cracow is the second biggest city in Poland, why smaller cities from poland like łódź and gdańsk are in the list and cracow is not with population 1 468 427 ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.81.31 ( talk) 23:03, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w
here is an article, as i said before IT IS THE 2ND LARGEST CITY IN POLAND, why still smaller cities like łódź gdańsk are still higher then cracow with urban area 1 468 427 dated on 30 VI 2010?
the newest datas are here http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w#cite_note-4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.4.38.158 ( talk) 10:17, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obszar_metropolitalny
here are all datas with polish urban areas , 1st Katowice 2nd Warsaw 3rd Cracow.
i hope someone would check it and correct all . thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.4.38.158 ( talk) 10:25, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Statistics Sweden measures the Swedish urban areas every five year (... 1995, 2000, 2005, 2010). The figure in the list seems to be the same as 2005 estimate. This source shows the figures for 2010 [ [5]]. The population is currently at 1,372,565 (p9) and the desity at 3,597/km2 (p17). These figures are in conflict with the Demografia-figure of 1,285,000.
Interestingly the source says that they use figures from statics Sweden [ [6]] and have extrapolated this for the current year. But the growth rate has been much been much higher than they appearently have taken into account. It should be mentioned that the "Demografia" paper was released in april 2011, while the correct figures were published in june the sam year. So their figures weren't probably incorrect given the extrapolation procedure. Should we use the correct (higher) figures or should we use the obsolete estimtes from "demografia"? What do you think? Nirro ( talk) 16:03, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Warsaw haven't got population even close to 4 500 000, I have no idea who type so silly number. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw - whole Warsaw MA has about 2 600 000, so about 2 000 000 less than in the article... And second thing - the largest MA in Poland is Silesian MA (Katowice MA). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.196.54.12 ( talk) 20:22, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
It's listed twice. Zweifel ( talk) 01:20, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Currently, this list is in very poor shape. While it started out perfectly fine, it is now plagues by original research and errors up to the point where some studies are included twice on the list, with very different population figures. What some users obviously fail to understand is how to use sources. If we have a list, and this article is a list, then there is one source for the whole list. If you come from a city on the list and you think the figure is incorrect, it doesn't matter. If you surf around and find a source, even from your country's official statistics, that support your belief, it still doesn't matter. In lists of this kind, the most important thing is knowing that all data has been measured and treated in the same way. As long as we use one reliable source, there is no problem. When individual users add one source for a single city, it wreaks havoc with the list. Currently, the French city Toulouse is featured twice on the list, and the list has very little connection to the source, which is given as Demographia. We can always discuss which one source to use and I'm very open for any discussion on another source than Demographia if a convincing argument can be made for another source. What we under no circumstances can do is to have a list based on one source, but with exceptions for some cities. A list of this kind only makes sense when all cities are measured in the same way, and that can only be guaranteed by using the same source for all cities. Jeppiz ( talk) 19:36, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Another thing, the Cities from Russia, Ukraine and the Caucasus, are here for what reason? -- Pedro ( talk) 22:24, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Would it not be wiser to include non-EU urban areas in the list and rename the list, like in the list of metropolitan areas in Europe? Non-EU urban areas are mentioned later, I think it would be better to have a common list, to be able to compare areas in the entire Europe. In fact, the two largest European urban areas, Moscow and Istanbul, are outside the EU. -- Oddeivind ( talk) 11:22, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
The number of inhabitants of the urban area is approx. 2,3 mil, so much more than it says here. Also, the wole Randstad could be mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.81.107.38 ( talk) 20:12, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
You might confuse urban area with metropolitan area. But still, number is kinda small. Amsterdam wiki-article states urban area to be 1,2 million. Inkogn ( talk) 16:17, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Athens ? 3.200.000 perhaps in 1970... The criterion to identify the metropolitan areas isn't linked to population density rather than the extension ? If we consider the criteria of New York or Los Angeles, all the North of Italy from Milan to Venice (obviously without Alps and the lowlands) is a metropolitan area ? Surely in this area there is more population than New York. The criteria are perhaps administrative ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.74.222 ( talk) 08:21, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
According User: Subtropical-man Paris is more populous than London. He always insert the data of proper city. You can see the page Greater London Urban Area. User continue to edit warring with other user, but that isn't the population of urban area. -- Music&Co 17 February 2013 (UTC)
And.....his website sources is NOT ACCESSIBLE!!!!!!!! he talk about verificability!!!!!!!!! -- Music&Co ( talk) 10:53, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for my bed English for first thing (SONO ITALIANO!!) My trash English make sensation more than the Sanremo Music Festival Awards :) ihihihi However besides the United Nation Table, the true reality is that
I have ascertained the nature of source, and that the whole page concerns him to that source. I believe that however it need to specify this page that this table keeps in mind only of a source (what it is not of certain the only believable to the world..). I believe that need to specify..-- Music&Co ( talk) 17:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Dear Subtropical-man, skipping his antipathy (!!) and his conceitedness (!!) I don't intend to go further to this discussion. I don't need your explanations, also because I have a degree in geography and statistic;) can you say the same for you?!! however I wanted to contribute in the English version of these articles, but there is a coeso monopoly, I am very more satisfactory and exhaustive the Italian version, very more democratic and less dull. Stop.
For view only: it:Area metropolitana it:Lista di aree metropolitane del mondo per popolazione it:Aree metropolitane europee
Ciao.-- Music&Co ( talk) 20:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi all,
bobrayner ( talk) 18:50, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
The figure for the annual increase is nonsense. Largest cities of the European Union by population within city limits shows Greater London increasing by well over 1% annually, so unless hundreds of thousands have moved out of the commuter towns in the last decade something is awry. 213.106.154.57 ( talk) 15:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
The source to the UN page isn't available. Doubt certain figures. Boeing720 ( talk) 22:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Why on earth is the UK Government's official names for UK urban areas being reverted? Links to articles about each urban area are being removed in favour of links to individual cities within each urban area, including where multiple cities have separate LUZs within individual urban areas. What makes "Demographia" a better source for UK statistics than the Office for National Statistics? Fingerpuppet ( talk) 15:07, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Where is this consensus recorded? It does not appear to be on here. And the Demographia source uses ONS Urban Area data as its original source for the 2001 data - then estimates changes (with no description of methodology) from there without using the latest data available. So exactly how is the Demographia "urban area" different from the ONS Urban Area data? What is the methodology differences between the two data when the base 2001 data on Demographia is the ONS Urban Area data?
To demonstrate, the table below compares the 2001 census data for the three largest UK Urban Areas outside Greater London as given by the primary source, i.e. the ONS, and the base 2001 data given by Demographia.
Greater Manchester UA | 2,244,931 |
Demographia "Manchester" | 2,245,000 |
West Midlands UA | 2,284,093 |
Demographia "Birmingham" | 2,284,000 |
West Yorkshire UA | 1,499,465 |
Demographia "Leeds-Bradford" | 1,499,000 |
As can be seen, the base Demographia figures clearly use the ONS data, and then rounds them to the nearest thousand. This shows once and for all that the base data used by Demographia is the ONS Urban Area data (now superceded by the 2011 census data), and this nonsense about them being somehow different can be put to bed. Fingerpuppet ( talk) 18:54, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
The Urban Areas/Built-up areas are one attempt at defining urban areas, but we probably shouldn't use the ONS figures here because of Wikipedia:Synthesis. A separate part of the table with the data from the 2011 census, and possibly from other primary sources, would be bad as well because they'd be from different dates and Wikipedia:Synthesis again plus with the UK stuff they can just go to the relevant article on British Urban Areas. Linking to the names of the urban areas not the cities is not a bad idea. Does Demographia have a reason for not using the UK 2011 census data or are they just out of date? Eopsid ( talk) 08:29, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Why does an article titled "Largest urban areas of the European Union" need to have a section called "Non EU urban areas"? They are outside of the article's scope. -- Jaakko Sivonen ( talk) 19:51, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
Why has London only got a population growth of only 0.07%, when it is one of the fastest growing cities in Europe? -- Logicgold ( talk) 05:47, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Between 2011 and 2012 it's population grew by 1.3%. -- Logicgold ( talk) 23:14, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
The United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs provides estimates for the population of urban areas in 2015:
To be clear, these estimates are from 2014, for 2015.
Thoughts?
Rob984 (
talk)
16:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. I have no idea "Wien" is Vienna. Considering this is the English Wikipedia, the list should obviously be legible to English speakers. Rob984 ( talk) 01:39, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
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someone added this urban population of katowice, without any sources or references. 21mis ( talk) 15:42, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Cities bigger than 440.000 inhabitants have a strong growth as a constant pattern in comparison with the environment for "all" cities, from Russia, USA, Brazil or Europe, just check the cities list of those countries and their growth change with the years, and where is the knick of bigger regression, it's clear already in wiki list, in green and red colours.
The list of metropolitan areas must be then starting in 400.000 habitants.
And include the failing metropolitan areas from the different countries.
Areas with higher than 1000 hab./km2 have strong cost reduction in public service,...
Cities bigger than 10 million or over 5000 hab/km2 start to habe strong saturation cost. South Korea took a radical solution to avoid the Tokio saturation cost, and started around Seul a dense net of interlinked cities to avoid saturation.
-- 188.171.57.93 ( talk) 11:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
The list includes Oslo and Bergen, but not the large Swiss cities (at Demographia, one of the sources, Oslo is 813,000, and Zurich 815,000). The UK cities were removed on the day it left the EU, so the criteria seem to be "proper EU cities", in which case Oslo and Bergen should go. That would fit the page title, anyway. Peace Makes Plenty ( talk) 23:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
This list leans heavily on a report by Demographia which appears to be a small, US based, pro-car/anti public transport, conservative think tank. How reliable should we consider this source? Arnoutf ( talk) 09:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)