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The USGS (on a subpage of the ref at the bottom of our article) says:
[emphasis added]
Our article talks of only 57 through 70, inclusive.
Any chemists able to clarify? Robin Patterson 21:51, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'd vote for 57-70 (and 89-102 for actinides) (with Lutetium under Yttrium and Lawrencium under Lutetium). All four (Sc, Y, Lu, Lr) are clearly the first transition metals (with one 3d, 4d, 5d, and 6d electron, respectively) in their row, with all previous subshells completely filled.
Now... getting really tedious: Looking through the electron configurations:
3d begins filling immediately with Scandium, with the 4s subshell sometimes temporarily losing an electron to 3d. With Zinc, all the started subshells are full and 4p is still empty. For Yttrium it's very similar, with 5p staying empty until group 13.
Lanthanum (57), starts with a 5d, not a 4f, electron. Cerium (58) adds a 4f, and then Praseodymium has 3 4f and no 5d electrons, whereafter 4f consistently fills until Ytterbium, where it's permanently filled, and all started subshells are now full, and 5d has throughout at most one electron, (and this for only three elements - La (57), Ce (58), and Gd (64) ). Seems to me that Ytterbium (70) is a very nice element to end the 4f block on. Lutetium has one 5d electron (the first "transition" element in row 6), and the 5d orbitals continue to fill consistently up to and including Hg (80) (the last row 6 "transition" element), after which 6p begins filling.
The Actinides are similar to the Lanthanides - Ac (89) has 1, Th (90) 2, Pa (91) 1, U (92) 1, Np (93) 1, and Cm (96) 1, 6d electron(s), and No (102) has all its started subshells filled, with 6d empty. Note that Lawrencium (103) (the first row 7 "transition" element) temporarily has a 7p electron before the first 6d. Cn (112) seems to be the last row 7 "transition" element. 75.82.122.28 ( talk) 00:50, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
It never seems to make sense to include Lutetium in the series.
Scandium and Yttrium ([Ar]4s2,3d1 and [Kr]5s2,4d1 and
Lutetium and Lawrencium ([Xe]6s2,5d1,4f14 and [Rn]7s2,6d1,5f14) are similar in configuration - imho all 4 are in the d block - actually group 3.
Lanthanum and Actinium ([Xe]6s2,5d1 and [Rn]7s2,6d1) also appear to be in the d block - however, here the f block is in play according to the Madelung rule - and I see them both not as group 3, but as in between groups 2 and 3, since the d electrons disappear later and the f orbitals are all filled within 14 elements, before the d orbitals begin refilling (with Lu & Lr).
Zn, Cd, Hg and Cn are all d block - I would like to call them "transition", but I'm not a chemist - this is my take thinking about the electron configurations. It seems simpler and more intuitive to arrange the table according to the Madelung rule, with the actual elements sometimes deviating from it. There's a great periodic table @ /info/en/?search=Alternative_periodic_tables#Major_alternative_structures. 75.82.122.28 ( talk) 04:23, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
IUPAC argues that the -ide ending is reserved for a binary compound, such as chlorides, nitrides or oxides. The -oid ending means "similar to" as in humanoid or android. Therefore, I propose to use the new official name first, with the old -ide ending as a synonym. -- Gunnar ( talk) 11:30, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
The 1985 “Red Book” (p. 45) indicates that the following collective names for groups of atoms are IUPAC-approved: actinoids or actinides, lanthanoids or lanthanides. The note that accompanied that statement explained that although actinoid means “like actinium” and so should not include actinium, actinium has become common usage. Similarly, lanthanoid. The ending “-ide” normally indicates a negatives ion, and therefore “lanthanoid” and “actinoid” are preferred to “lanthanide” and “actinide.” However, owing to wide current use, “lanthanide” and “actinide” are still allowed. http://publications.iupac.org/ci/2004/2601/2_holden.html
Lanthanoid, also called lanthanide, any of the series of 15 consecutive chemical elements in the periodic table from lanthanum to lutetium (atomic numbers 57–71). https://www.britannica.com/science/lanthanoid
IUPAC argues that ...). - DePiep ( talk) 09:35, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
This discussion should probably occur at WT:ELEM. YBG ( talk) 00:39, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Article titles is the relevant policy and reads in part: Article titles should be recognizable to readers, unambiguous, and consistent with usage in reliable English-language sources. In many cases, the official name will be the best choice to fit these criteria. However, in many other cases, it will not be. The article title policy later reads Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title (emphasis added).On wikipedia we go by what the sources say, not what the "official" terminology is. Polyamorph ( talk) 13:41, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
![]() | Lanthanide ( final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 9 November 2023 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 730 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
The USGS (on a subpage of the ref at the bottom of our article) says:
[emphasis added]
Our article talks of only 57 through 70, inclusive.
Any chemists able to clarify? Robin Patterson 21:51, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'd vote for 57-70 (and 89-102 for actinides) (with Lutetium under Yttrium and Lawrencium under Lutetium). All four (Sc, Y, Lu, Lr) are clearly the first transition metals (with one 3d, 4d, 5d, and 6d electron, respectively) in their row, with all previous subshells completely filled.
Now... getting really tedious: Looking through the electron configurations:
3d begins filling immediately with Scandium, with the 4s subshell sometimes temporarily losing an electron to 3d. With Zinc, all the started subshells are full and 4p is still empty. For Yttrium it's very similar, with 5p staying empty until group 13.
Lanthanum (57), starts with a 5d, not a 4f, electron. Cerium (58) adds a 4f, and then Praseodymium has 3 4f and no 5d electrons, whereafter 4f consistently fills until Ytterbium, where it's permanently filled, and all started subshells are now full, and 5d has throughout at most one electron, (and this for only three elements - La (57), Ce (58), and Gd (64) ). Seems to me that Ytterbium (70) is a very nice element to end the 4f block on. Lutetium has one 5d electron (the first "transition" element in row 6), and the 5d orbitals continue to fill consistently up to and including Hg (80) (the last row 6 "transition" element), after which 6p begins filling.
The Actinides are similar to the Lanthanides - Ac (89) has 1, Th (90) 2, Pa (91) 1, U (92) 1, Np (93) 1, and Cm (96) 1, 6d electron(s), and No (102) has all its started subshells filled, with 6d empty. Note that Lawrencium (103) (the first row 7 "transition" element) temporarily has a 7p electron before the first 6d. Cn (112) seems to be the last row 7 "transition" element. 75.82.122.28 ( talk) 00:50, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
It never seems to make sense to include Lutetium in the series.
Scandium and Yttrium ([Ar]4s2,3d1 and [Kr]5s2,4d1 and
Lutetium and Lawrencium ([Xe]6s2,5d1,4f14 and [Rn]7s2,6d1,5f14) are similar in configuration - imho all 4 are in the d block - actually group 3.
Lanthanum and Actinium ([Xe]6s2,5d1 and [Rn]7s2,6d1) also appear to be in the d block - however, here the f block is in play according to the Madelung rule - and I see them both not as group 3, but as in between groups 2 and 3, since the d electrons disappear later and the f orbitals are all filled within 14 elements, before the d orbitals begin refilling (with Lu & Lr).
Zn, Cd, Hg and Cn are all d block - I would like to call them "transition", but I'm not a chemist - this is my take thinking about the electron configurations. It seems simpler and more intuitive to arrange the table according to the Madelung rule, with the actual elements sometimes deviating from it. There's a great periodic table @ /info/en/?search=Alternative_periodic_tables#Major_alternative_structures. 75.82.122.28 ( talk) 04:23, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
IUPAC argues that the -ide ending is reserved for a binary compound, such as chlorides, nitrides or oxides. The -oid ending means "similar to" as in humanoid or android. Therefore, I propose to use the new official name first, with the old -ide ending as a synonym. -- Gunnar ( talk) 11:30, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
The 1985 “Red Book” (p. 45) indicates that the following collective names for groups of atoms are IUPAC-approved: actinoids or actinides, lanthanoids or lanthanides. The note that accompanied that statement explained that although actinoid means “like actinium” and so should not include actinium, actinium has become common usage. Similarly, lanthanoid. The ending “-ide” normally indicates a negatives ion, and therefore “lanthanoid” and “actinoid” are preferred to “lanthanide” and “actinide.” However, owing to wide current use, “lanthanide” and “actinide” are still allowed. http://publications.iupac.org/ci/2004/2601/2_holden.html
Lanthanoid, also called lanthanide, any of the series of 15 consecutive chemical elements in the periodic table from lanthanum to lutetium (atomic numbers 57–71). https://www.britannica.com/science/lanthanoid
IUPAC argues that ...). - DePiep ( talk) 09:35, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
This discussion should probably occur at WT:ELEM. YBG ( talk) 00:39, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Article titles is the relevant policy and reads in part: Article titles should be recognizable to readers, unambiguous, and consistent with usage in reliable English-language sources. In many cases, the official name will be the best choice to fit these criteria. However, in many other cases, it will not be. The article title policy later reads Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title (emphasis added).On wikipedia we go by what the sources say, not what the "official" terminology is. Polyamorph ( talk) 13:41, 9 September 2020 (UTC)